Kuchar

[DegenerateDish]

As a teenager, I caddied from high school through my years at MU. I think Kuchar massively eff’d up here. Not saying he needed to pay the traditional 10% here, but $50k probably would have never made this a story. His doubling down on this, and his agent making the optics look worse...not a good look for Kuch.

[tower912]

Odd, as he has always had a reputation as one of the good guys.   

[Cheeks]

He offered the caddy $15K, and it was turned down by the caddy.

[Pakuni]

He should have paid the traditional 10 percent.

[🏀]

He offered the caddy $15K, and it was turned down by the caddy.

Because it was an insult.

$50k would've done it, but now he's got a crapstorm and every attendant, caddy and ballwasher are posting Kuchar stories on Twitter. Guy is cheap.

[Cheeks]

Because it was an insult.

$50k would've done it, but now he's got a crapstorm and every attendant, caddy and ballwasher are posting Kuchar stories on Twitter. Guy is cheap.

Probably, I'm merely adding a few more pieces of information to the thread.  It is my understanding they agreed on a fee of $4K.  Kuch paid him $5K and offered him and additional $15K for $20K total.  Caddy said no.  That caddy saying good things about Kuch, which is wise of caddy.  It appears both sides were agreeable to the terms which the caddy admits. Only providing other information here.  Kuch lived by the terms so did the caddy.  If Kuch wants to give more, that's certainly up to him and would "make things go away", but he isn't stiffing anyone and offered to pay him more than what was agreed upon.  Maybe in Kuch's mind a deal is a deal, I don't know and don't pretend to be in his head.

[Bocephys]

Probably, I'm merely adding a few more pieces of information to the thread.  It is my understanding they agreed on a fee of $4K.  Kuch paid him $5K and offered him and additional $15K for $20K total.  Caddy said no.  That caddy saying good things about Kuch, which is wise of caddy.  It appears both sides were agreeable to the terms which the caddy admits. Only providing other information here.  Kuch lived by the terms so did the caddy.  If Kuch wants to give more, that's certainly up to him and would "make things go away", but he isn't stiffing anyone and offered to pay him more than what was agreed upon.  Maybe in Kuch's mind a deal is a deal, I don't know and don't pretend to be in his head.

No one's making a legal argument, they're making a moral one.

[Cheeks]

No one's making a legal argument, they're making a moral one.

What’s the moral argument?  A deal isn’t a deal?  Or paying $20K isn’t enough, which was a huge increase over the agreed upon amount.   I’m really curious what the morality angle here is. He offered to pay him 400% more than what was agreed to.  Where is the morality cut off? Does it matter that he isn't a permanent caddy for him and was a stand in essentially?  I don't know, merely asking.

He could make this all go away by paying him off, but I don't see it as a moral argument.  He lived by what was agreed upon. If he didn't, then it is an ethical and moral argument. He offered well above what was agreed upon, which he didn't have to do.

[DegenerateDish]

The problem is the caddy had zero negotiating power in the original offer. Kuchar, and any pro golfer, is a brand. The caddy, to his credit, went to the agent asking (rightfully so) for more money. Having caddied in pro am’s and a million club tournaments, if your guy/gal wins, you’re getting more cash. Kuchar’s agent handled it atrociously and didn’t even consider the brand damages for a measly $50k. I don’t think the caddy should have got the normal 10%, but Kuch should have known better than giving him $5k and then doubling down behind it. He looks worse every hour that goes by, when this never should have reached the news. Really poor job here.

[Bocephys]

What’s the moral argument?  A deal isn’t a deal?  Or paying $20K isn’t enough, which was a huge increase over the agreed upon amount.   I’m really curious what the morality angle here is. He offered to pay him 400% more than what was agreed to.  Where is the morality cut off? Does it matter that he isn't a permanent caddy for him and was a stand in essentially?  I don't know, merely asking.

He could make this all go away by paying him off, but I don't see it as a moral argument.  He lived by what was agreed upon. If he didn't, then it is an ethical and moral argument. He offered well above what was agreed upon, which he didn't have to do.

The morality angle is that he underpaid someone because he thought he could get away with it.  When confronted and still offered the opportunity to get out cheaper than the industry standard 10% fare, he low balled the guy again because he thought he could get away with it.

[Pakuni]

What’s the moral argument?  A deal isn’t a deal?  Or paying $20K isn’t enough, which was a huge increase over the agreed upon amount.   I’m really curious what the morality angle here is. He offered to pay him 400% more than what was agreed to.  Where is the morality cut off? Does it matter that he isn't a permanent caddy for him and was a stand in essentially?  I don't know, merely asking.

He could make this all go away by paying him off, but I don't see it as a moral argument.  He lived by what was agreed upon. If he didn't, then it is an ethical and moral argument. He offered well above what was agreed upon, which he didn't have to do.

I imagine the argument goes along the lines of ...
"Why is this guy not paying his Mexican caddy what would be the standard wage for an American caddy at a tournament played in the states? Why does this guy who's easily made more than $50 million as a professional golfer think he's being generous by paying what amounts to a .03 percent tip?"

[jesmu84]

https://twitter.com/squashems/status/1095441977175207936?s=19

[Cheeks]

I imagine the argument goes along the lines of ...
"Why is this guy not paying his Mexican caddy what would be the standard wage for an American caddy at a tournament played in the states? Why does this guy who's easily made more than $50 million as a professional golfer think he's being generous by paying what amounts to a .03 percent tip?"

Ah, so it's a racist thing.....deals only matter with Americans dealing with Americans?

[tower912]

Should have torn up the deal and given the substitute caddy what he would have given his regular caddy.     

[Cheeks]

https://twitter.com/squashems/status/1095441977175207936?s=19

Do we know if this is real? Do we know if this guy was a jackhole server?  I guess since it is on the internet, especially the paragon of virtue...Twitter...it has to be true. 

But let's explore a bit more, the Twitter user says he is from Northwest Iowa and served Kuchar two days ago per the receipt. 
I mean, yeah pro golfers are playing in Northwest Iowa in middle of February is the norm. Even more strange is that Kuchar was here in California last week at Pebble and again this week here in Los Angeles playing at Riviera.  So I guess he was in Iowa two days ago, just for kicks, but teeing off today at Riviera while also practicing at Riviera yesterday.  Sure, I'll buy that.

You've been had.  What else are you believing to be true? 

Meanwhile at the same event Kuchar won, Zach Johnson's caddie fell ill and Matt Kuchar's wife stepped in to caddy.  I hope she was paid to do so.   https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/golf/2018/11/08/matt-kuchar-wife-steps-zach-johnson-emergency-caddie/1933235002/

[jesmu84]

Do we know if this is real? Do we know if this guy was a jackhole server?  I guess since it is on the internet, especially the paragon of virtue...Twitter...it has to be true. 

But let's explore a bit more, the Twitter user says he is from Northwest Iowa and served Kuchar two days ago per the receipt. 
I mean, yeah pro golfers are playing in Northwest Iowa in middle of February is the norm. Even more strange is that Kuchar was here in California last week at Pebble and again this week here in Los Angeles playing at Riviera.  So I guess he was in Iowa two days ago, just for kicks, but teeing off today at Riviera while also practicing at Riviera yesterday.  Sure, I'll buy that.

You've been had.  What else are you believing to be true? 

Meanwhile at the same event Kuchar won, Zach Johnson's caddie fell ill and Matt Kuchar's wife stepped in to caddy.  I hope she was paid to do so.   https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/golf/2018/11/08/matt-kuchar-wife-steps-zach-johnson-emergency-caddie/1933235002/

https://bustedcoverage.com/2019/02/12/matt-kuchars-gets-dragged-again-by-golf-media-for-giving-caddie-5k-after-winning-1-296-million/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

[Cheeks]

Should have torn up the deal and given the substitute caddy what he would have given his regular caddy.   

Why?  #dealsnomatta?  What happened to an honest deal, two sides agreeing?  What's more, Kuchar went WAY above the deal.

[Cheeks]

https://bustedcoverage.com/2019/02/12/matt-kuchars-gets-dragged-again-by-golf-media-for-giving-caddie-5k-after-winning-1-296-million/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Sorry, so you still believe the fake receipt from Iowa?  That's amazing.

[Bocephys]

Ah, so it's a racist thing.....deals only matter with Americans dealing with Americans?

You have once again picked out something you can twist into a straw man to avoid defending your stance.

[Cheeks]

You have once again picked out something you can twist into a straw man to avoid defending your stance.

No, once again someone has made a racial issue out of something that isn't....once again....like so many other times.

I can defend quite easily what happened and have.  An agreement was in place. Both sides agreed to it. The caddy was local, no expenses incurred like tour caddies.  The player honored the agreement and even gave him more.  Now, that doesn't mean I agree with what Kuchar did and he EASILY could make this go away by paying him more, but his actions are easily defensible just as well where a deal is a deal.  My recommendation to him is just to pay the guy, for which he will get very little credit anyway as social media and fauxraged will slam on him no matter what.  That may be why Kuchar is digging in at this point, but who knows.

More importantly, why is it that apparently deals don't matter?  It's an outage when management doesn't pay a player, for example, his / her true market worth....but hey if the player underperforms, by golly management doesn't get any of the money back for overpaying because a contract is a contract.  Fans are a funny bunch.   

[jesmu84]

Do we know if this is real? Do we know if this guy was a jackhole server?  I guess since it is on the internet, especially the paragon of virtue...Twitter...it has to be true. 

But let's explore a bit more, the Twitter user says he is from Northwest Iowa and served Kuchar two days ago per the receipt. 
I mean, yeah pro golfers are playing in Northwest Iowa in middle of February is the norm. Even more strange is that Kuchar was here in California last week at Pebble and again this week here in Los Angeles playing at Riviera.  So I guess he was in Iowa two days ago, just for kicks, but teeing off today at Riviera while also practicing at Riviera yesterday.  Sure, I'll buy that.

You've been had.  What else are you believing to be true? 

Meanwhile at the same event Kuchar won, Zach Johnson's caddie fell ill and Matt Kuchar's wife stepped in to caddy.  I hope she was paid to do so.   https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/golf/2018/11/08/matt-kuchar-wife-steps-zach-johnson-emergency-caddie/1933235002/

"From"

My Twitter says I'm from Central Illinois. Where I haven't lived since graduating high school

Do I know it's true? No.

[🏀]

That tip is very unlikely as they tagged CPG. However, is all the negative press worth the money? Should've just paid El Tucan.

[Cheeks]

"From"

My Twitter says I'm from Central Illinois. Where I haven't lived since graduating high school

Do I know it's true? No.

Well considering who he claims is his congressmen, who is from Iowa, from three weeks ago.... I'm going to go with you have been had by a fake tweet.

https://twitter.com/squashems/status/1089037975080628224

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

The whole "he usually doesn't make this much so he should be happy" line, while I don't think is racist, comes off as "ugly American." Throwing him an extra $1,000 is pretty paternalistic.

[Cheeks]

The whole "he usually doesn't make this much so he should be happy" line, while I don't think is racist, comes off as "ugly American." Throwing him an extra $1,000 is pretty paternalistic.

He threw him an extra $15K


“I am not looking to disparage Matt or give him a bad name. Fair is fair, and I feel like I was taken advantage of by placing my trust in Matt.” - Ortiz

Which is it?  Fair is fair?  Or taken advantage of?  This guy says two things in one sentence.  Is fair based on the deal he agreed to, or not?