How does this team rank amongst the 2000s?

[Galway Eagle]

Lenny is spot on. There is no way to evaluate teams at their peaks vs. other peaks. This team should be judged by the end result, just like all other years. This team might be #1 or out of top half.

NM, what chicos said

[Cheeks]

Lenny is spot on. There is no way to evaluate teams at their peaks vs. other peaks. This team should be judged by the end result, just like all other years. This team might be #1 or out of top half.

Disagree.  I don't find it that hard to judge what a team is when fully operational vs one that is missing key parts at the end.  It literally is a different team.

MU with Jim Chones was a great great team.  Same year, not great ending because he left.  Was that a great team for 85% of the year? A national title contender?  Yes.  But the composition of the team changed. 

I'd characterize those teams as better than their record, often much better then their postseason end due to injury or departure.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

What mattas is the end the result.

But that doesn't mean it isn't fun for fans to compare and contrast rosters. 12-13 was our second most successful roster since 77. Personally, I don't think they were our 2nd best roster of that time period.

[Eye]

Good call on the '07 team, too, Chicos. That was a team at least a couple of seed lines higher before the McNeal injury.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Peaks no matta — this team is getting better as we play more games.  That's what gets me excited. 

[MountainCreekHouse]

I'm concerned people on this board don't understand the game of basketball. Judging a team based only on the "end result" makes absolutely zero sense. Basketball is a possession-to-possession game; entire games can be win or lost on only 1 single possession.

A perfect example of that comes to mind during the 2009 NCAA tournament where one Lazar Hayward stepped out of bounds against a Demarre Carrol Missouri team to hand them the victory. Without that misstep, we very well could have won that game. And imagine if we had a healthy DJ at that time... I ultimately think we beat UConn at home during the regular season and go much deeper in the tournament than the lowly 2nd-round result.

You have to judge a team on more than just the end result, because one small misstep can cost so much.

2003 was the best team Marquette has had during the 2000's

The team we have currently is the 2nd best.

A healthy 2009 is the third best, potentially tied for 2nd.

[Loose Cannon]

I'm concerned people on this board don't understand the game of basketball. Judging a team based only on the "end result" makes absolutely zero sense. Basketball is a possession-to-possession game; entire games can be win or lost on only 1 single possession.

A perfect example of that comes to mind during the 2009 NCAA tournament where one Lazar Hayward stepped out of bounds against a Demarre Carrol Missouri team to hand them the victory. Without that misstep, we very well could have won that game. And imagine if we had a healthy DJ at that time... I ultimately think we beat UConn at home during the regular season and go much deeper in the tournament than the lowly 2nd-round result.

You have to judge a team on more than just the end result, because one small misstep can cost so much.

2003 was the best team Marquette has had during the 2000's

The team we have currently is the 2nd best.

A healthy 2009 is the third best, potentially tied for 2nd.

Plus Tax

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

I'd still take the 2011-12 over this team at the moment, they were unbelievably good.

[Galway Eagle]

I'd still take the 2011-12 over this team at the moment, they were unbelievably good.

I'd say it's a toss up for third between this team and the 11-12 team. That team had no consistent third option the way this team does and especially the way the 08-09 team did

[Herman Cain]

I'd say it's a toss up for third between this team and the 11-12 team. That team had no consistent third option the way this team does and especially the way the 08-09 team did

The 11-12 team had Davante as actually a great first option until he got hurt.  Also it had Vander and Jamil as very above average fourth and fifth options.

Obviously 2003 was the best team by result, but the 08-09 was the most enjoyable team for me since the Al era.

[brewcity77]

The 11-12 team had Davante as actually a great first option until he got hurt.  Also it had Vander and Jamil as very above average fourth and fifth options.

Davante as a first option? He was never going to be first on that team. He was crazily effective for what he did, but didn't have the conditioning to be a reliable game after game third option. Vander & Jamil were just average that year. Neither was close to the players they would develop into, Vander as a junior and Jamil as a pro.

[GrimmReaper33]

It's too early to rank this year's team, let's see how they finish.  I will say though, I do fear we may be overvaluing this year's team so far due to the gaudy record and top 10 ranking.  If we're being honest, they are certainly benefiting from a very down conference.

I'm not saying they don't deserve the top 10 ranking, because they do- that's how it works, but it's kind of hard to pinpoint how good they really are.  Not trying to take anything away from our guys because they deserve credit for winning the games in front of them.  However, we haven't faced a top 50 KenPom team in over a month and the one we did face (St Johns) beat us by 20.

Are we really one of the 10 best teams in all of college basketball?  It's hard to say.  Rating metrics like KenPom, Sagarin, T-rank, BPI say we are not and would be underdogs against 20+ teams on a neutral floor.  Personally, I think we can play with most, if not all teams on any given night. 

Postseason play can be a crapshoot, but fair or unfair, that is going to tell the story with this year's squad.  An early exit in the dance and the critics will say we were overrated the whole time because the BEAST wasn't any good.

[Silkk the Shaka]

It's too early to rank this year's team, let's see how they finish.  I will say though, I do fear we may be overvaluing this year's team so far due to the gaudy record and top 10 ranking.  If we're being honest, they are certainly benefiting from a very down conference.

I'm not saying they don't deserve the top 10 ranking, because they do- that's how it works, but it's kind of hard to pinpoint how good they really are.  Not trying to take anything away from our guys because they deserve credit for winning the games in front of them.  However, we haven't faced a top 50 KenPom team in over a month and the one we did face (St Johns) beat us by 20.

Are we really one of the 10 best teams in all of college basketball?  It's hard to say.  Rating metrics like KenPom, Sagarin, T-rank, BPI say we are not and would be underdogs against 20+ teams on a neutral floor.  Personally, I think we can play with most, if not all teams on any given night. 

Postseason play can be a crapshoot, but fair or unfair, that is going to tell the story with this year's squad.  An early exit in the dance and the critics will say we were overrated the whole time because the BEAST wasn't any good.

Excellent eFG% defense gives our elite 3 point shooting enough chances to beat anyone.

The past couple years if we went cold from 3 for a few possessions in a row we couldn't get a stop so teams would rip off multiple runs to nearly insurmountable leads. This year if we go cold for a few or more we at least hang tight with stops, then when it starts raining again, it pours

[Herman Cain]

Davante as a first option? He was never going to be first on that team. He was crazily effective for what he did, but didn't have the conditioning to be a reliable game after game third option. Vander & Jamil were just average that year. Neither was close to the players they would develop into, Vander as a junior and Jamil as a pro.

Buzz definitely ran plays for Davante and in that sense he was among the top 3 options . So even though he was fat and winded he put up big production in his minutes before the injury . The home game we won against Louisville was a great example. No plays were being run for Vander or Jamil but that did not take away from the talent they displayed at times as the fourth and fifth players.

[SaveOD238]

I think we're all in agreement that 2003, 2009, 2012, and 2019 are the four best teams of the 2000s.  How would those teams fare against each other?

2003: Wade, Diener, Jackson, Merritt, Townsend, Novak
2009: McNeal, Matthews, Hayward, James, Burke, Butler
2012: DJO, Crowder, Blue, Gardner, Wilson, Cadougan
2019: Howard, Hauser, Hauser, Anim, John, Morrow

I don't see the 2019 guards (Howard-Anim) keeping up on defense with the guard duos or trios from any of those other years.  We don't have a player to guard the third guard (Sam on Matthews or DJO?...wouldn't go well).  2019 front court might be one of the best of the bunch, though I can't see John playing more than about 10 possessions against Gardner without fouling out.  Gardner vs Jackson would be a helluva battle of similar styles, ditto to Crowder vs Hayward.  There's more playmakers on the 2009 and 2012 teams, whereas in 2003 and 2019 the offense tends to run through just a few guys.  If we add a healthy Otule back to the 2012 team, there are very few weaknesses, as Cadougan was a good distributor and good on D even if he didn't score much. 

Call me a blasphemer, but I think 2009 (with DJ) and 2012 might have been the best teams but 2003 and 2019 have the most transcendent players. 

[SaveOD238]

I think we're all in agreement that 2003, 2009, 2012, and 2019 are the four best teams of the 2000s.  How would those teams fare against each other?

2003: Wade, Diener, Jackson, Merritt, Townsend, Novak
2009: McNeal, Matthews, Hayward, James, Burke, Butler
2012: DJO, Crowder, Blue, Gardner, Wilson, Cadougan
2019: Howard, Hauser, Hauser, Anim, John, Morrow

I wanted to add to my earlier post some KenPom ratings for those squads:

2003: Overall 15, AdjO 120.5 (2), AdjD 99.2 (109)
2009: Overall 19, AdjO 117.1 (9), AdjD 96.1 (52)
2012: Overall 18, AdjO 111.5 (40), AdjD 91.3 (14)
2019: Overal 26, AdjO 113.0 (26), ADJD 94.6 (32)

2003 had an outstanding offense, but a mediocre defense.  2009's offense was almost equal to 2003's but they were significantly better on D, though still not amazing.  2012 flipped the script with an outstanding defense and a good, but not great offense.  2019 doesn't have an elite offense or defense, but is probably the most balanced.

[Milkshakes]

It's too early to rank this year's team, let's see how they finish.  I will say though, I do fear we may be overvaluing this year's team so far due to the gaudy record and top 10 ranking.  If we're being honest, they are certainly benefiting from a very down conference.

I'm not saying they don't deserve the top 10 ranking, because they do- that's how it works, but it's kind of hard to pinpoint how good they really are.  Not trying to take anything away from our guys because they deserve credit for winning the games in front of them.  However, we haven't faced a top 50 KenPom team in over a month and the one we did face (St Johns) beat us by 20.

Are we really one of the 10 best teams in all of college basketball?  It's hard to say.  Rating metrics like KenPom, Sagarin, T-rank, BPI say we are not and would be underdogs against 20+ teams on a neutral floor.  Personally, I think we can play with most, if not all teams on any given night. 

Postseason play can be a crapshoot, but fair or unfair, that is going to tell the story with this year's squad.  An early exit in the dance and the critics will say we were overrated the whole time because the BEAST wasn't any good.

I think this is extremely well said.

[WarriorDad]

It's too early to rank this year's team, let's see how they finish.  I will say though, I do fear we may be overvaluing this year's team so far due to the gaudy record and top 10 ranking.  If we're being honest, they are certainly benefiting from a very down conference.

I'm not saying they don't deserve the top 10 ranking, because they do- that's how it works, but it's kind of hard to pinpoint how good they really are.  Not trying to take anything away from our guys because they deserve credit for winning the games in front of them.  However, we haven't faced a top 50 KenPom team in over a month and the one we did face (St Johns) beat us by 20.

Are we really one of the 10 best teams in all of college basketball?  It's hard to say.  Rating metrics like KenPom, Sagarin, T-rank, BPI say we are not and would be underdogs against 20+ teams on a neutral floor.  Personally, I think we can play with most, if not all teams on any given night. 

Postseason play can be a crapshoot, but fair or unfair, that is going to tell the story with this year's squad.  An early exit in the dance and the critics will say we were overrated the whole time because the BEAST wasn't any good.

I have enjoyed this team regardless of how they do in the post season.  We all hope they receive a favorable match up, but I won't judge the team only on how they do there.  It has been an extremely enjoyable campaign thus far and we all want it to go deeply into March.

[Loose Cannon]

I have enjoyed this team regardless of how they do in the post season.  We all hope they receive a favorable match up, but I won't judge the team only on how they do there.  It has been an extremely enjoyable campaign thus far and we all want it to go deeply into March.

Yep, as much as we rejoice in the final results, there is much  more enjoyment during the season's ride.

[brewcity77]

Buzz definitely ran plays for Davante and in that sense he was among the top 3 options . So even though he was fat and winded he put up big production in his minutes before the injury . The home game we won against Louisville was a great example. No plays were being run for Vander or Jamil but that did not take away from the talent they displayed at times as the fourth and fifth players.

Sure, he ran plays for him, but he wasn't close to being one of the top options. Jae and DJO were 1 and 1A. Gardner, Mayo, Blue, and Jamil were all well behind them in terms of not just minutes but the number of shots available to them while on the floor.

[bilsu]

2007 n 2008 we had Crean as a coach, the guy sucked, still does.  Career has been a downward spiral since his pot of gold was drafted 5th overall by the Miami Heat.

I would love to make the money he has in is downward spiral.

[bilsu]

You have 2009 ranked too high.  Sure if DJ would have been healthy it would have been better, but he wasn't and the team tanked down the stretch and lost in the second round.

Also you have 2013 ranked too low.  That team won the BE and got to the E8.

On that team you had MU's 1, 2, 4 , 9 & 31 all-time scorers. McNeal, Hayward, James,, Mathews and Butler were quick and good defenders.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

2013 was a perfect storm of great matchups at the right time, I still don't know how good that team actually is.

Beat Syracuse at home because Davante didn't miss a shot all game, Vander did have a breakout season, but I wouldn't put him in the same category as Markus, Wade, Jae, or even DJO.

Half court buzzer beater from Cadougan to beat UCONN, and a great matchup against Miami in the S16.

[Its DJOver]

2013 was a perfect storm of great matchups at the right time, I still don't know how good that team actually is.

Beat Syracuse at home because Davante didn't miss a shot all game, Vander did have a breakout season, but I wouldn't put him in the same category as Markus, Wade, Jae, or even DJO.

Half court buzzer beater from Cadougan to beat UCONN, and a great matchup against Miami in the S16.

Hardly halfcourt, and that was only to force OT.  Like em or hate em, that team did have some talent.

[brewcity77]

Hardly halfcourt, and that was only to force OT.  Like em or hate em, that team did have some talent.

That three was still crazy. It was the first made three of the game. Absolutely terrible shooting team.