Greg

[esotericmindguy]

The romance this board has with freshman and now a player that is injured is comical. Greg Elliot is the difference between two wins on the second weekend? Ok.

News flash, Elliot isn’t a PG and isn’t a great defender. He was a nice role player on an NIT team. His handle was below average last year and he weighs 175 pounds at 6’3. Sacar is 210 pounds and Koby is 200 pounds. They don’t need scoring as much as they need defense at that position.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Greg Elliott is a fantastic defender.

[94Warrior]

Is he practicing, and 100% healthy?  If so, when did that happen?

I didn't see an answer to this question.  Does anybody know if he is practicing full speed yet?

[mileskishnish72]

I'm with TAMU - Greg plays well on D.
I think at this stage to pull the redshirt would be unwise. Why? 1. The team has done pretty well.
2. We don't know his status/readiness. 3. Burn a year for a dozen games?

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

I never understood why so many think Greg is the answer for this team to go further in the tournament? 

Yes, I understand Markus is our only “pg” we seem to have, but Greg didn’t particularly show me last year that he is our current missing piece.

In no way putting down Greg, I just don’t see what so many others seem to.

Go back n lok at Gregs numbers in the Big East.  Pretty damn solid for a freshman wearing a cast on his hand

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

Sacar lacks confidence.....

If he sees it go through a few times......

He goes off......Very timid at times on the offensive end.....

He may gain confidence but his mechanics are quite poor, he also has basically no left hand, hence the twisting high degree difficulty twisting reverse layups,

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

Only one person on this board said Sacar is "worst 2 in BE by far." Right after that basketball genius said it, Sacar had a great game against Seton Hall -- absolutely one of the main reasons we won the game -- and followed it up with solid games against GT and Providence.

Frankly, Sacar hasn't played as well the last couple of games, and Wojo has done what a good coach should: give more minutes to Sacar's backup, BB. Which of course has led Sacar's critic to wax poetic about how great BB has been.

The funny thing is although I agree BB has played well, he scored 4 points total in the 2 games, shot 1-for-5 from the floor, and missed the front end of a key 1-and-1 against X. Had Sacar done the exact same, he would have been demoted from the "worst 2 in the BE by far" to worst since Naismith tacked up the first peach basket.

This entire post is pathetic, the hyperbole and distortion of fact shows why the journalistic field is falling apart while MU82 continues with a blind eye.

I have said all along we are very very weak at the 2g. Peopje, most vociferously and antagonistically MU82, have said we were not.  I think any objective person, key word objective can look at Bendan Baileys box scores for the Georfetown And Xavier Games and see he out played Sacar. Mu82 can mention a mussed ft, well they bith went 2-3 and i commended sacar for his two big makes. Its not the point and a dustraction by 82.  Many people point to sacars defense,  baikey a freshman who sat out two years out defended sacar, outrebounded him, out blocked him.  Bottom line is whether our 4th year player who is just not very good or a first year player is out there we r pretty weak at that spot.  Again id take booth, heron, alexander, diallo, gage, powell, scruggs, etc over either of them right now.   Sacar in retrospect may be better than mclung n the 2g at butler, although mclung lit sacar up in their only meeting. For the record i think bailey is gonna be really really good. 
We r weak at the 2g rn, mu82s mother henning and distortions for sacar dont change that.
Greg would have helped tremendously, superior defender and offensive pkayer then sacar.

[TinyTimsLittleBrother]

Continuing to refer to Sacar as a “2g” shows an exceptional ignorance of the roles that players play in today’s game. Comparing him to other players who play different roles on there teams make no sense.

That being said, Bailey and Ellliott May end up filling that role better next year.

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

Continuing to refer to Sacar as a “2g” shows an exceptional ignorance of the roles that players play in today’s game. Comparing him to other players who play different roles on there teams make no sense.

That being said, Bailey and Ellliott May end up filling that role better next year.

Call it what u want, 2g, wing, tomato, tomato.  Been coaching hoops for almost 30 years including many current n formers D1 players n a current nbaer. We refer to our players as 1-5, not insinuating positions cannot be interchangeable or in certain cases identical.  Havent coached the past few years maybe ive lost it.   Call me ignorant if u would like but i think i have a decent handle on whats going on as im guessing the other coaches ive worked with do as well.  Spoke to a coach, of a former player today on the phone,  that called me, we spoke for almost an hour. He used the term 2 in our convo also, he must be ignorant as well?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I have said all along we are very very weak at the 2g. Peopje, most vociferously and antagonistically MU82, have said we were not.  I think any objective person, key word objective can look at Bendan Baileys box scores for the Georfetown And Xavier Games and see he out played Sacar. Mu82 can mention a mussed ft, well they bith went 2-3 and i commended sacar for his two big makes. Its not the point and a dustraction by 82.  Many people point to sacars defense,  baikey a freshman who sat out two years out defended sacar, outrebounded him, out blocked him.  Bottom line is whether our 4th year player who is just not very good or a first year player is out there we r pretty weak at that spot.  Again id take booth, heron, alexander, diallo, gage, powell, scruggs, etc over either of them right now.   Sacar in retrospect may be better than mclung n the 2g at butler, although mclung lit sacar up in their only meeting. For the record i think bailey is gonna be really really good. 
We r weak at the 2g rn, mu82s mother henning and distortions for sacar dont change that.
Greg would have helped tremendously, superior defender and offensive pkayer then sacar.

No one argued that we aren't weak at the 2 position, especially compared to our other 4 starters. The only argument was with the claim that Sacar was "the worst starting 2g in the Big East by far."

You would really take Devin Gage over Sacar? That's a hard sell IMHO.

[wadesworld]

Herron plays the 4 for St. John's, so there's that.

Also McClung was going off when Sacar was on Akinjo (who had a terrible game the entire game).  Once Bailey came in and was put on Akinjo, Sacar moved over to McClung and McClung became invisible.

If you're going to call out Sacar, at least get your facts straight.  When you just throw out bold face lies it defeats your point.

And Sacar will not be down to 7 mpg next year like Matt is this year, nor should he be.

[MU82]

This entire post is pathetic, the hyperbole and distortion of fact shows why the journalistic field is falling apart while MU82 continues with a blind eye.

I have said all along we are very very weak at the 2g. Peopje, most vociferously and antagonistically MU82, have said we were not.  I think any objective person, key word objective can look at Bendan Baileys box scores for the Georfetown And Xavier Games and see he out played Sacar. Mu82 can mention a mussed ft, well they bith went 2-3 and i commended sacar for his two big makes. Its not the point and a dustraction by 82.  Many people point to sacars defense,  baikey a freshman who sat out two years out defended sacar, outrebounded him, out blocked him.  Bottom line is whether our 4th year player who is just not very good or a first year player is out there we r pretty weak at that spot.  Again id take booth, heron, alexander, diallo, gage, powell, scruggs, etc over either of them right now.   Sacar in retrospect may be better than mclung n the 2g at butler, although mclung lit sacar up in their only meeting. For the record i think bailey is gonna be really really good. 
We r weak at the 2g rn, mu82s mother henning and distortions for sacar dont change that.
Greg would have helped tremendously, superior defender and offensive pkayer then sacar.

The guy who called Sacar the worst BY FAR -- which is a lie -- and continues to rag on him every chance he gets ... now attempts to call somebody else out for hyperbole. That's funny.

At least I think that's what you did. Your unintelligible post is filled with gibberish and nonsense.

And now you claim to be some great coach of college and NBA stars. Riiiiiiiight. How did MU miss out on offering you the job over Shaka and Wojo?

But sure, keep showing how great a fan you are by constantly ripping an athlete who has helped a team you allegedly love go 18-3.

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

Herron plays the 4 for St. John's, so there's that.

Also McClung was going off when Sacar was on Akinjo (who had a terrible game the entire game).  Once Bailey came in and was put on Akinjo, Sacar moved over to McClung and McClung became invisible.

If you're going to call out Sacar, at least get your facts straight.  When you just throw out bold face lies it defeats your point.

And Sacar will not be down to 7 mpg next year like Matt is this year, nor should he be.

Without watching SJU more its hard to define the roles, figueroa n clark at 6’6 n 6’7 would have to be referred to as the 4 n 5 or post defenders.  So call Heron or Simon the interchangeable 2/3 in the 5 out.  Both infinitely superior players to Sacar n Bailey rn. 
Howard went out 3 minutes in, and my recollection may be off.  I just recall Bailey absolutely smothering Akinjo in the second half.  It may not have been on sacar that mclung went off but i also dont recall Akinjo being smothered in tge first half like he was in the second.  Additionally, Baileys defense was so good against X that Sacar couldnt get back on the court until a foul out.
Lastly, not sure if it was directed at me but i never made a guestimate at Sacars minutes for next yr.  Ive simply said Greg is better at both ends and without him we have been tremendously weak at the 2 relative to the BE

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

No one argued that we aren't weak at the 2 position, especially compared to our other 4 starters. The only argument was with the claim that Sacar was "the worst starting 2g in the Big East by far."

You would really take Devin Gage over Sacar? That's a hard sell IMHO.

Gage only one on that list that even close.  Gage is a good defender avg 1.4 steals a game and rebounds well also extremely quick n strong for the position.  An equal to or better defender than  sacar, who imo doesnt really defend well he is just our only real iption to defend other teams athletic wings given the Hauser boys footspeed n Howards size n lack of great D.  Sacar also really doesnt rebound much.  Offensively both bad 3pt shooters but gage better total fg%, much better ft%.  And averages 9/game pts.  In the head to head gage 11 pts 7 rebounds, sacar 0 pts on 9 shots, 3 rebounds.
So yes on Gage more dynamic.  Id take greg over both n bailey next yr over both sacar n gage

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Gage only one on that list that even close.  Gage is a good defender avg 1.4 steals a game and rebounds well also extremely quick n strong for the position.  An equal to or better defender than  sacar, who imo doesnt really defend well he is just our only real iption to defend other teams athletic wings given the Hauser boys footspeed n Howards size n lack of great D.  Sacar also really doesnt rebound much.  Offensively both bad 3pt shooters but gage better total fg%, much better ft%.  And averages 9/game pts.  In the head to head gage 11 pts 7 rebounds, sacar 0 pts on 9 shots, 3 rebounds.
So yes on Gage more dynamic.  Id take greg over both n bailey next yr over both sacar n gage

1. Gage is a PG, not a 2G
2. Sacar is a much better defender than Gage
3. Steals per game is a bad way to judge defense
4. Sacar has a better eFG%
5. 1 head to head matchup is a terrible way to judge two players, especially when they didn't defend each other
6. When comparing stats, you have to take into account the team the two players are on. Gage is putting up his stats on a much worse team

[Galway Eagle]

1. Gage is a PG, not a 2G
2. Sacar is a much better defender than Gage
3. Steals per game is a bad way to judge defense
4. Sacar has a better eFG%
5. 1 head to head matchup is a terrible way to judge two players, especially when they didn't defend each other
6. When comparing stats, you have to take into account the team the two players are on. Gage is putting up his stats on a much worse team

Didn't listen when presented with real arguments about Luke and wont listen now with sacar

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

1. Gage is a PG, not a 2G
2. Sacar is a much better defender than Gage
3. Steals per game is a bad way to judge defense
4. Sacar has a better eFG%
5. 1 head to head matchup is a terrible way to judge two players, especially when they didn't defend each other
6. When comparing stats, you have to take into account the team the two players are on. Gage is putting up his stats on a much worse team

Appreciate the opinion.  If u feel gage is the PG for depaul then hands down i take cain over sacar at the 2

Point is we r weak at the 2, very weak at a position that is usually a strength for teams.  Mu82 wants to mother hen sacar and say he is good, but hes not.  I hadnt said anything about sacar in a while until another clunker vs depaul.  After x only thing i said was kudos to him on his fts. Additionally on numerous occasions ive stated that i was incorrect in saying sacar was the worst 2 in the BE, 82 will not recognize that. His jouralistic nature has him on an agenda.  I have now on many ocassions in response the his hypocritical rants stated that hes not the worst but is near the worst.  Im sure hes a great kid n seems like a spectacular teammate.  His skill level is simply quite poor

[jesmu84]

Appreciate the opinion.  If u feel gage is the PG for depaul then hands down i take cain over sacar at the 2

Point is we r weak at the 2, very weak at a position that is usually a strength for teams.  Mu82 wants to mother hen sacar and say he is good, but hes not.  I hadnt said anything about sacar in a while until another clunker vs depaul.  After x only thing i said was kudos to him on his fts. Additionally on numerous occasions ive stated that i was incorrect in saying sacar was the worst 2 in the BE, 82 will not recognize that. His jouralistic nature has him on an agenda.  I have now on many ocassions in response the his hypocritical rants stated that hes not the worst but is near the worst.  Im sure hes a great kid n seems like a spectacular teammate.  His skill level is simply quite poor

Cain over Sacar?

Many, many lulz

[JakeBarnes]

NM

[avid1010]

Appreciate the opinion.  If u feel gage is the PG for depaul then hands down i take cain over sacar at the 2

Point is we r weak at the 2, very weak at a position that is usually a strength for teams.  Mu82 wants to mother hen sacar and say he is good, but hes not.  I hadnt said anything about sacar in a while until another clunker vs depaul.  After x only thing i said was kudos to him on his fts. Additionally on numerous occasions ive stated that i was incorrect in saying sacar was the worst 2 in the BE, 82 will not recognize that. His jouralistic nature has him on an agenda.  I have now on many ocassions in response the his hypocritical rants stated that hes not the worst but is near the worst.  Im sure hes a great kid n seems like a spectacular teammate.  His skill level is simply quite poor

I bet Sacar doesnt get on message boards, with an anonymous screen name, and both the play of kids.  So maybe you aren't qualified to judge...

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

Cain over Sacar?

Many, many lulz

Eli cain from depaul

[MU82]

Appreciate the opinion.  If u feel gage is the PG for depaul then hands down i take cain over sacar at the 2

Point is we r weak at the 2, very weak at a position that is usually a strength for teams.  Mu82 wants to mother hen sacar and say he is good, but hes not.  I hadnt said anything about sacar in a while until another clunker vs depaul.  After x only thing i said was kudos to him on his fts. Additionally on numerous occasions ive stated that i was incorrect in saying sacar was the worst 2 in the BE, 82 will not recognize that. His jouralistic nature has him on an agenda.  I have now on many ocassions in response the his hypocritical rants stated that hes not the worst but is near the worst.  Im sure hes a great kid n seems like a spectacular teammate.  His skill level is simply quite poor

If you publicly stated that you were WAAAAAAY over the top in saying Sacar was the worst 2 in the BE by far, I missed it. So I'm glad you have apologized for being so wrong that it rendered you impossible to take seriously on any basketball subject.

For the record, here are my thoughts about Sacar:

Although Sacar is pretty good at beating his defender and getting into the lane -- kind of a JJJ Lite -- he is not a reliable scorer because he's neither a very good finisher nor a good outside shooter. So he is capable of putting up 15 for us, as he has on many occasions, but also is capable of laying a goose egg.

But because he is a superb defender and a "hustle player" -- in other words, the classic "glue guy" -- there is a role for him on a team that starts three gifted scorers. He is the kind of player most coaches love, and it's easy to see why Wojo thinks he fits on this team. Having said that, it's obvious that Wojo has no problem giving Bailey a chance when Sacar is really struggling, and leaving Bailey in when he's playing well. Which is very smart of Wojo.

Do I wish we had the best 2 in the BEast? Sure. But it's unrealistic to expect to have the best player at every position. Am I upset that we have a defensive-minded 2 who is a good team player, who has bought into Wojo's system and who has personally contributed to us being one of the most improved defensive teams in the country? Not in the least.

It's like a baseball team that has great hitters at first base, second base and third base; it can afford to play a great defensive shortstop who only occasionally delivers on offense, and it can win a LOT of games with that infield.

I don't believe that all of the above means I am an "apologist" for Sacar or that I fail to recognize his limitations. If you feel otherwise, I can live with that because you have demonstrated repeatedly that you are a person who just fires out the first words that come into your head rather than actually thinking before you post.

Bottom line: You said Sacar was "not very good" and called him "the worst 2 in the BE by far." Those were your words, nobody else's, and I called you out for them being as dopey as your rants about Luke being the worst. Ever since, you resorted to personal attacks against me -- including one particularly nasty comment that earned you a Scoop-cation -- because you realized you couldn't make an intelligent argument for Sacar being as bad as you claimed. Now you say you have softened your stance on Sacar -- that he's merely bad and not the worst in the BE by far -- and we're supposed to congratulate you? All righty then.

[MuMark]

https://twitter.com/steve_wojo/status/1089914171712589824

[Its DJOver]

I don't really get the insistence on using an outdated labeling system.  If we use this labeling system, we have a top half (in conference) C in Theo, a top three or four PF in Joey, a top one or two SF in Sam, a top one or two SG in Markus, and a bottom three or four PG in Chartouny.   We don't start our one spot where we're below average, which causes Markus to slide over and play out of position, which makes Sacar slide over and play out of position.  If you want to say that Sacar is a below average SG that's fine, and I would agree, since that's not his position.

[skianth16]

I know the whole point of the board is to talk about MU hoops and that a lot of that will revolve around hypotheticals, but with that said, I really wish we could stop focusing on what we could/should/would be if we had Greg this year. He was a good enough role player last year, but then again, so was Jamal. If anything, Jamal probably looked more comfortable than Greg by the end of last season, and now he's having a hard time finding his role this year. What makes so many think that Greg would be so different?

We're a darn good team this year with the guys who have been on the floor. Everyone has done a great job of stepping up when they needed to, and that has made this team awfully dangerous. We aren't hurting for an extra guy right now. And hopefully we'll continue to see development from Brendan, see Joe continue to build his confidence, and see Sacar find his rhythm on offense.

If anything, what we need the most right now is Jamal, not Greg. If we can get Jamal back to his Big East form from last season, that makes us very capable of a deep run. And that's a heckuva lot more likely than burning Greg's redshirt.