Scottie Pippen Says Zion Williamson Should "Shut It Down" And End Duke Career

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Winning does matter, but a team like Loyola won without any NBA future stars on their team.  One isn't required of the other.  Schools like Duke, Marquette, Villanova that put emphasis on basketball will have better players and more fans, because they win.  If Zion stops playing, Duke will still have good players and likely fans will still watch to see if they can absorb his loss. 

Zion didn't make Duke, Duke helped make Zion.

It's a mutually beneficial relationship.

Zion is providing the Duke brand with future value.  He is a continuation of the Duke brand.

Duke is providing Zion with exposure, which should increase his value in terms of future endorsements.

Ignoring Zion's value to Duke is foolish.  Putting a dollar amount on that value is tricky but it's definitely greater than 0.

[StillAWarrior]

In my opinion, where Pippen gets it wrong is when he says that Zion has shown enough in college basketball that he's secured his place in the draft (paraphrasing).  Realistically, he didn't even have to do anything.  We all knew who Zion was before set foot on the Duke campus, and we all knew he'd be a top pick whenever he enters the draft.  Zion didn't need Duke for that.

But, that leads me to a different conclusion that one might expect.  He didn't need Duke, yet he committed to go there anyway and be part of that team.  So, I think he should honor that commitment to his teammates and to Duke.  I'm going to assume that he's not stupid, and he believed he was getting something out of the relationship or he wouldn't have gone.  But I don't think it was to increase his draft stock.

Like several others on this thread, I hope this situation helps accelerate the absurd one-and-done rule.  If kids are good enough to play in the NBA -- and I think everyone knows that Zion is -- then let them get drafted and play.

[Pakuni]

Duke did give Zion a well known platform to showcase himself as opposed to someone like charles bassey at WKU

Zion didn't need Duke's platform to showcase himself. He was well-known to sports fans before setting foot on Duke's campus.

[brewcity77]

What? No. Duke did nothing to make Zion. The kid has been making ESPN highlights since he was a freshman in high school. He had more Twitter followers as a high schooler than most NBA players.

Zion was known to the younger crowd, but Duke has helped him become mainstream. He's not catching the eyes of the 40+ crowd if he isn't leading SportsCenter every night. Eventually his brand would've grown as he entered the NBA, similar to Lebron, but playing at Duke specifically increased his platform at an earlier state of his career.

Playing at Duke, as opposed to taking a year off, playing in Europe, or playing for a smaller school, has undoubtedly increased his early career endorsement value.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Duke and the NCAA absolutely make money off of Zion Williamson.

Duke and the NCAA absolutely don't make "billions" off of Zion Williamson. CT is right that people tune into Duke to see Duke and college basketball as a whole to see college basketball. Now Pakuni is also right that the reason people do that is because of the presence of great players like Zion. But it is because of all the great players that are and have played, not because of Zion specifically.

I have no idea what worth Zion individually brings to Duke and the NCAA, significantly more than the average player I'm sure. Players like him are why I'm for letting players make money off their likeness. I think he gets a pretty sweet deal for playing at Duke but he's one of the few players that I think are actually worth more. I think it would be right to let him make up the difference by being paid for his likeness.

[MU82]

Winning does matter, but a team like Loyola won without any NBA future stars on their team.

Fluke NCAA runs don't count as proof of anything.

Wisconsin consistently winning big with several guys who weren't super-highly recruited (Kaminsky, Gasser, etc) would have been a much better comparison.

[brewcity77]

Zion didn't need Duke's platform to showcase himself. He was well-known to sports fans before setting foot on Duke's campus.

Not like he is now. Not even close.

[Cheeks]

Winning does matter, but a team like Loyola won without any NBA future stars on their team.  One isn't required of the other.  Schools like Duke, Marquette, Villanova that put emphasis on basketball will have better players and more fans, because they win.  If Zion stops playing, Duke will still have good players and likely fans will still watch to see if they can absorb his loss. 

Zion didn't make Duke, Duke helped make Zion.

+ tax

Especially the last part.  Zion is a household name now, that was not the case before he went to Duke. The diehards knew who he was, but not the casual fan which is where his brand will be made.  Duke provided that launch point, as does every major program.

If Markus went to a school like his brother, would anyone know who he is?  Not a damn chance.  The platform matters and the programs, conferences and associated muscle that go with them bring it to light.

People that argue that the player does it all amaze me.  As if they just did this at the local junior high gym the same result would happen.  Platform matters immensely along with the tremendous amount of money, time, resources in developing the platform and the talent.

The kid (Barrett) that is 2nd team mid season SI all American on Duke, 1% of America knew him last year...maybe.  Duke has given him the platform to showcase, improve, provide a free audition for future employers.

[Cheeks]

What? No. Duke did nothing to make Zion. The kid has been making ESPN highlights since he was a freshman in high school. He had more Twitter followers as a high schooler than most NBA players.

LOL. 

Using your same logic, does he have more Twitter followers since he joined Duke or prior?  Please.

[Pakuni]

Zion was known to the younger crowd, but Duke has helped him become mainstream. He's not catching the eyes of the 40+ crowd if he isn't leading SportsCenter every night. Eventually his brand would've grown as he entered the NBA, similar to Lebron, but playing at Duke specifically increased his platform at an earlier state of his career.

Playing at Duke, as opposed to taking a year off, playing in Europe, or playing for a smaller school, has undoubtedly increased his early career endorsement value.

I doubt it.
Brands - especially the kind of brands that build marketing campaigns around young, black athletes - aren't aiming for the 40+ crowd. Zion isn't going to be starring in Miller Lite, Dockers and Cialis commercials.
And those brands aren't targeting the few old people who still get their highlights on Sportscenter, they want the kids and Millennials watching Filayyy and Chris Smoove and other YouTube highlights.
My 11-year-old has only watched Sportscenter when I've had it on, but he knew who Zion was two years ago from watching YouTube.

[Cheeks]

Not like he is now. Not even close.

+ biggest tax increase in history.  It isn’t close

[Pakuni]

LOL. 

Using your same logic, does he have more Twitter followers since he joined Duke or prior?  Please.

1. Stop replying to your own posts.
2. I have no idea, but that's irrelevant. You and others claimed Duke's platform "made" Zion. That's provably false.

[Cheeks]

These are the NBA players he had more Twitter followers then....a regular hall of fame worthy cast of players.

Robert Covington – 72.4k

Kevin Knox – 77.9k

Terry Rozier – 117.3k

Aaron Gordon – 144.5k

Jamal Murray – 76.9k

Bobby Portis – 79.3k

Patrick Beverley – 152.6k

Jrue Holiday – 136.5k

Dion Waiters – 124.7k

Justise Winslow – 122k

Gary Harris – 59.3k


Prediction, Barrett will have the better NBA career.   Zion’s AAU coach just said there is no way he does this.  Too bad, would love it to be the death blow of this nonsense.

[GGGG]

Zion was known to the younger crowd, but Duke has helped him become mainstream. He's not catching the eyes of the 40+ crowd if he isn't leading SportsCenter every night. Eventually his brand would've grown as he entered the NBA, similar to Lebron, but playing at Duke specifically increased his platform at an earlier state of his career.

Playing at Duke, as opposed to taking a year off, playing in Europe, or playing for a smaller school, has undoubtedly increased his early career endorsement value.

Especially the last part.  Zion is a household name now, that was not the case before he went to Duke. The diehards knew who he was, but not the casual fan which is where his brand will be made.  Duke provided that launch point, as does every major program.

We've had this discussion before, and I just don't think it's accurate.  Zion's "brand" is by and large not affected by him going to Duke.  Assuming he will be drafted early and will be making highlight plays as soon as he enters the league, that's where his brand develops

These days NBA brands aren't built around "the 40+ crowd" or "the casual fan."  They are built from the grassroots up.  Look around an NBA arena and see who is wearing the City jersey and the like.  It's the 20-30 year old who's been talking about players long before they get to the NBA.  Hell my kid who is that age and has disposable income, could care less about college basketball but he knows exactly who Zion Williamson is.  And he knew long before he went to Duke.

[Pakuni]

These are the NBA players he had more Twitter followers then....a regular hall of fame worthy cast of players.

Robert Covington – 72.4k

Kevin Knox – 77.9k

Terry Rozier – 117.3k

Aaron Gordon – 144.5k

Jamal Murray – 76.9k

Bobby Portis – 79.3k

Patrick Beverley – 152.6k

Jrue Holiday – 136.5k

Dion Waiters – 124.7k

Justise Winslow – 122k

Gary Harris – 59.3k


Prediction, Barrett will have the better NBA career.   Zion’s AAU coach just said there is no way he does this.  Too bad, would love it to be the death blow of this nonsense.

Congratulations on your copypasta.
Nevermind the fact that we're talking about a high school kid who managed to get more Twitter followers than dozens of professional players (all of whom have the benefits of an NCAA school's platform and the NBA's platform).

[MU82]

Zion is a household name now, that was not the case before he went to Duke. The diehards knew who he was, but not the casual fan which is where his brand will be made.  Duke provided that launch point, as does every major program.

If Markus went to a school like his brother, would anyone know who he is?  Not a damn chance.  The platform matters and the programs, conferences and associated muscle that go with them bring it to light.

Seems you're saying that if Zion had gone to Marquette, everyone would know who he is. So he did not need the uber-brand that is Duke.

To Duke, he's a commodity to be used. I'm glad he used Duke, too.

[brewcity77]

When Zion committed to Duke less than a year ago, he had close to 100,000 followers. He's roughly doubled that in a year. If he was sitting out, would that have happened? Would his individual workouts be leading SportsCenter?

Zion has the potential to build the biggest brand in NBA history. The sooner people with disposable income are aware of him, the sooner that brand will take off. The idea that he becomes a household name to sports fans now, that people with income to spend know his name, and that he doubles his followers now without the backing of the biggest brand in the NCAA and on ESPN seems unlikely at best.

Eventually? Yes. But the attention he's gained NOW doesn't happen in the G-League, individual workouts, or overseas. To this point, and to the point he'll be at when he hears his name called this summer, Duke has absolutely helped increase public awareness of him.

[mu03eng]

The NBA isn't going to care either way.

You don't think the NBA would prefer to have him in the league an extra year? The NBA wants talent and marketable stars, Zion is both. If the one and done rule were in place when Lebron left high school, do you think the NBA would have cared if he had to go to college or not for that first year?

[mu03eng]

When Zion committed to Duke less than a year ago, he had close to 100,000 followers. He's roughly doubled that in a year. If he was sitting out, would that have happened? Would his individual workouts be leading SportsCenter?

Zion has the potential to build the biggest brand in NBA history. The sooner people with disposable income are aware of him, the sooner that brand will take off. The idea that he becomes a household name to sports fans now, that people with income to spend know his name, and that he doubles his followers now without the backing of the biggest brand in the NCAA and on ESPN seems unlikely at best.

Eventually? Yes. But the attention he's gained NOW doesn't happen in the G-League, individual workouts, or overseas. To this point, and to the point he'll be at when he hears his name called this summer, Duke has absolutely helped increase public awareness of him.

It's probably 80/20 playing in the NCAA versus playing for Duke in terms of awareness. Oklahoma and Duke aren't that close in terms of public awareness from a basketball program standpoint but Tre Young sure got a lot of attention, especially compared to how Oklahoma's season actually turned out. If Zion went to any Major 6 conference program the awareness of him would have gone up significantly. Duke adds some, but not a lot.

[brewcity77]

It's probably 80/20 playing in the NCAA versus playing for Duke in terms of awareness. Oklahoma and Duke aren't that close in terms of public awareness from a basketball program standpoint but Tre Young sure got a lot of attention, especially compared to how Oklahoma's season actually turned out. If Zion went to any Major 6 conference program the awareness of him would have gone up significantly. Duke adds some, but not a lot.

I don't know, if it's a Pac-12 or Big East school that's either on late or not on ESPN, I'm not sure he gets that level of exposure. I also don't think it happens to this level at Clemson. Playing alongside Barrett, Reddish, & Jones helps. Ben Simmons never got this at LSU. I think it helps that almost everyone has feelings, whether positive or negative, about Duke.

[Galway Eagle]

Zion didn't need Duke's platform to showcase himself. He was well-known to sports fans before setting foot on Duke's campus.

I agree he didn't need it. But the difference in publicity between Chris Bassey at WKU and Zion is noticeable. Look at it like this, would dukes numbers be noticeably down if Kentucky has Zion and duke was still top 5? I doubt it.

[GGGG]

You don't think the NBA would prefer to have him in the league an extra year? The NBA wants talent and marketable stars, Zion is both. If the one and done rule were in place when Lebron left high school, do you think the NBA would have cared if he had to go to college or not for that first year?

I think the NBA doesn't want to scout or deal with players right out of high school.  Lebron was clearly an exception to that rule, but there were a lot of bad decisions being made by high school seniors and the NBA wanted to distance itself from that.

I mean, there was a reason that rule was put in place.

[Pakuni]

I agree he didn't need it. But the difference in publicity between Chris Bassey at WKU and Zion is noticeable. Look at it like this, would dukes numbers be noticeably down if Kentucky has Zion and duke was still top 5? I doubt it.

I'm not arguing Duke's numbers here. I agree that Duke;s numbers aren't significantly impacted either way.
But Zion didn't need Duke - just like LeBron and Kobe and Kevin Garnett didn't need college - to be recognizable and marketable the instant they became pros.
I don't see the Bassey analogy. He was never the viral/media sensation Zion was.

[brewcity77]

I'm not arguing Duke's numbers here. I agree that Duke;s numbers aren't significantly impacted either way.
But Zion didn't need Duke - just like LeBron and Kobe and Kevin Garnett didn't need college - to be recognizable and marketable the instant they became pros.

Neither needed each other, but both benefit from the relationship. Duke was going to be a marquee program regardless & Zion would likely become a NBA superstar regardless, but both parties are garnering more attention because of their relationship.

[StillAWarrior]

Honest question...

I know that some schools spend a lot of money hyping athletes.  I'm thinking specifically of the practice of schools actively campaigning for Heisman candidates.  They send out flashy materials and spend a lot of time, money and effort doing this.  Does this happen in basketball?  I honestly don't know.  I found it remarkable how Trae Young burst into the national scene last year.  Was that just because the Big12 has a broadcast deal with ESPN?  Or is there more to it than that?  Is OU really pushing this kid, sending stuff out, etc.

If we're talking about where Zion was going to get drafted, I think playing at Duke really probably didn't affect that much if at all.  If we're talking about publicity (which, I suppose, equates to endorsement $$), I think it probably did help him quite a bit.  And if Duke is actually spending even more money promoting him for awards, etc., then that certainly has value to him.