MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Not A Serious Person on January 16, 2019, 06:41:59 PM
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I put it here, as opposed to the superbar because if this happens, does Markus become the leader for NPOY? Or has Zion already done enough to win it?
Scottie Pippen thinks Zion Williamson ought to 'shut it down' and end Duke career early
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/acc/2019/01/16/scottie-pippen-zion-williamson-shut-down-early-duke-nba-draft/2594203002/
Hall of Famer Scottie Pippen said Duke star Zion Williamson has already proved himself enough at the college level and that it's in the 18-year-old's best interest to "shut it down" so he doesn't risk an injury heading into his NBA career.
"I think he's done enough for college basketball, that it's more about him personally now," Pippen said Tuesday as an analyst during a segment on ESPN's "The Jump." "I think for him as a young player (pauses), I would shut it down. I would stop playing, because I feel that he could risk a major injury that could really hurt his career."
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100% agree. Just like with Henry Ellenson. He owes Duke nothing. The man is going to the NBA in the top 5. Easily. The only reason he should continue to play is because he enjoys playing college ball.
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It is an extension of the playing in meaningless bowl games argument. Zion could shut it down now and be the #1 pick. The question, as it is for all college athletes projected to be high draft picks, is what are the individual's priorities?
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the young adults might as well enroll in the school of their choice, practice, play a few games then "shut 'er down' not very good for the college b-ball, but i guess business is business ?-(
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Hope he shuts it down, then maybe the NCAA and NBA will end this farce by requiring kids to go to college who dont want to be in college
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Of course, Scottie had a few documented instances of 'me-first' during his career, so it is not surprising he would make this argument.
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Superbar.
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Tre Jones is out indefinitely, that has to have an effect on Zion.
Love to see both him and Barrett both decide they are done. That would gut Duke and shake this broken system to its core.
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I put it here, as opposed to the superbar because if this happens, does Markus become the leader for NPOY? Or has Zion already done enough to win it?
Scottie Pippen thinks Zion Williamson ought to 'shut it down' and end Duke career early
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/acc/2019/01/16/scottie-pippen-zion-williamson-shut-down-early-duke-nba-draft/2594203002/
Hall of Famer Scottie Pippen said Duke star Zion Williamson has already proved himself enough at the college level and that it's in the 18-year-old's best interest to "shut it down" so he doesn't risk an injury heading into his NBA career.
"I think he's done enough for college basketball, that it's more about him personally now," Pippen said Tuesday as an analyst during a segment on ESPN's "The Jump." "I think for him as a young player (pauses), I would shut it down. I would stop playing, because I feel that he could risk a major injury that could really hurt his career."
I hope he does and we can further stop the nonsense of one and dones. Don’t even bother recruiting them, because enough will do the same that the elite teams will be reduced to nothing.
Absolutely fine by me to end this nonsense. Then we can get back to college sports played by people who want to play college sports. Bring it on.
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100% agree. Just like with Henry Ellenson. He owes Duke nothing. The man is going to the NBA in the top 5. Easily. The only reason he should continue to play is because he enjoys playing college ball.
I don't agree with the idea that he owes Duke nothing. Thit's isn't the actual language but the idea is "We pay your tuition (and all other fees and services) you play a basketball season for us." I think quitting now is going back on that deal.
Now if you're saying we should change things so that isn't the deal going forward, I could have that conversation. But right now I don't think it's right to go back on your end of the bargain. If you're worried about injury, take out an insurance policy.
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I put it here, as opposed to the superbar because if this happens, does Markus become the leader for NPOY? Or has Zion already done enough to win it?
Scottie Pippen thinks Zion Williamson ought to 'shut it down' and end Duke career early
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/acc/2019/01/16/scottie-pippen-zion-williamson-shut-down-early-duke-nba-draft/2594203002/
Hall of Famer Scottie Pippen said Duke star Zion Williamson has already proved himself enough at the college level and that it's in the 18-year-old's best interest to "shut it down" so he doesn't risk an injury heading into his NBA career.
"I think he's done enough for college basketball, that it's more about him personally now," Pippen said Tuesday as an analyst during a segment on ESPN's "The Jump." "I think for him as a young player (pauses), I would shut it down. I would stop playing, because I feel that he could risk a major injury that could really hurt his career."
I agree he has done enough for college basketball if you consider doing nothing for college basketball enough.
I hope he does quit because I hate Duke the way most of you hate ND and UW. But if he does, without question he's done more harm than good for college basketball.
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Of course, Scottie had a few documented instances of 'me-first' during his career, so it is not surprising he would make this argument.
Who cares.
Duke and the NCAA are making so much money off Zion, while he can’t.
If it’s allowed, (I’m honestly not sure what the rule is) let him quit school completely, aight a shoe deal and make some money off commercials before he even gets to the NBA.
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Who cares.
Duke and the NCAA are making so much money off Zion, while he can’t.
If it’s allowed, (I’m honestly not sure what the rule is) let him quit school completely, aight a shoe deal and make some money off commercials before he even gets to the NBA.
Duke isn't selling any more tickets, or selling any more jerseys, or anything else because Zion is there. Duke sells because of Duke.
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Superbar.
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Absolutely fine by me to end this nonsense. Then we can get back to college sports played by people who want to play college sports. Bring it on.
Yep - The last thing college basketball needs are one and done and two and ones (like D Wade) need apply. Four years or bust!
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Take the money and leave Duke (not just because I hate Duke - that's just a bonus).
Seriously, take the money.
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So, 1/2 and done?
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I don't agree with the idea that he owes Duke nothing. Thit's isn't the actual language but the idea is "We pay your tuition (and all other fees and services) you play a basketball season for us." I think quitting now is going back on that deal.
Now if you're saying we should change things so that isn't the deal going forward, I could have that conversation. But right now I don't think it's right to go back on your end of the bargain. If you're worried about injury, take out an insurance policy.
I agree with this analysis.
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Duke isn't selling any more tickets, or selling any more jerseys, or anything else because Zion is there. Duke sells because of Duke.
Bingo
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Yep - The last thing college basketball needs are one and done and two and ones (like D Wade) need apply. Four years or bust!
Wade was at MU 3 years
Never did I say 4 years or bust, but one year is ridiculous.
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ESPN would have to launch ESPNZion.
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From a financial perspective, there’s zero benefit in continuing to pretend he’s a Duke student. He should go not because of injury risk (any decent agent would have secured an enormous insurance policy for him) but to stick it to the ultimate hypocrites at Duke. Anyone who really believes people are tuning in to Duke games just to watch the school, and not Zion, irretrievably lack common sense and should be forced into a prolonged dinner with four Duke alumni as punishment.
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From a financial perspective, there’s zero benefit in continuing to pretend he’s a Duke student. He should go not because of injury risk (any decent agent would have secured an enormous insurance policy for him) but to stick it to the ultimate hypocrites at Duke. Anyone who really believes people are tuning in to Duke games just to watch the school, and not Zion, irretrievably lack common sense and should be forced into a prolonged dinner with four Duke alumni as punishment.
I believe the maximum insurance contract is $5 million. A Nerlens Noel knee injury at Kentucky or a Joel Embiid type foot injury can cost him orders of magnitude more than this.
Bill Rafferty said he could be the first NBA player with $1 billion in career earnings.
So, if you are thinking this is unfair. Zion should drop out now and send Duke $40k for the remaining tuition and room and board and go earn his billions.
It is almost unfair if he stays and gets hurt. Is Duke going to cover the millions he loses? Are they going to cover Tre Jones lost wages?
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I believe the maximum insurance contract is $5 million. A Nerlens Noel knee injury at Kentucky or a Joel Embiid type foot injury can cost him orders of magnitude more than this.
Bill Rafferty said he could be the first NBA player with $1 billion in career earnings.
So, if you are thinking this is unfair. Zion should drop out now and send Duke $40k for the remaining tuition and room and board and go earn his billions.
It is almost unfair if he stays and gets hurt. Is Duke going to cover the millions he loses? Are they going to cover Tre Jones lost wages?
Oh, I’m with you here. If the amount he’s insured is capped at such a small figure, he shouldn’t play another second of CBB.
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From a financial perspective, there’s zero benefit in continuing to pretend he’s a Duke student. He should go not because of injury risk (any decent agent would have secured an enormous insurance policy for him) but to stick it to the ultimate hypocrites at Duke. Anyone who really believes people are tuning in to Duke games just to watch the school, and not Zion, irretrievably lack common sense and should be forced into a prolonged dinner with four Duke alumni as punishment.
Really? So all these years when every game that was sold out or people viewed without Zion was a lie? When he is gone next year no one will be watching Zion? Lol
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I believe the maximum insurance contract is $5 million. A Nerlens Noel knee injury at Kentucky or a Joel Embiid type foot injury can cost him orders of magnitude more than this.
Bill Rafferty said he could be the first NBA player with $1 billion in career earnings.
So, if you are thinking this is unfair. Zion should drop out now and send Duke $40k for the remaining tuition and room and board and go earn his billions.
It is almost unfair if he stays and gets hurt. Is Duke going to cover the millions he loses? Are they going to cover Tre Jones lost wages?
Through ncaa it is $5 mil for b-ball, $10 mil for football. However, you can go to private market and get higher coverage as some have done in the past....Jamarcus Russell is one example.
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I hope he does and we can further stop the nonsense of one and dones. Don’t even bother recruiting them, because enough will do the same that the elite teams will be reduced to nothing.
Absolutely fine by me to end this nonsense. Then we can get back to college sports played by people who want to play college sports. Bring it on.
Agree completely. Better for everyone. More scholarships for individuals who will actually rely on their degree later in life.
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I hope he does and we can further stop the nonsense of one and dones. Don’t even bother recruiting them, because enough will do the same that the elite teams will be reduced to nothing.
Absolutely fine by me to end this nonsense. Then we can get back to college sports played by people who want to play college sports. Bring it on.
They won't be reduced to nothing, you'll just have the next tier of kids, the ones we usually get, that will be the new Blue blood recruits. It'll make for greater parity but the elite teams will still corner the market on top talent.
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I believe the maximum insurance contract is $5 million. A Nerlens Noel knee injury at Kentucky or a Joel Embiid type foot injury can cost him orders of magnitude more than this.
Bill Rafferty said he could be the first NBA player with $1 billion in career earnings.
So, if you are thinking this is unfair. Zion should drop out now and send Duke $40k for the remaining tuition and room and board and go earn his billions.
It is almost unfair if he stays and gets hurt. Is Duke going to cover the millions he loses? Are they going to cover Tre Jones lost wages?
I agree with your point but that isn't a fair comparison. If you are looking at worst case scenario where he injuries his knee in the next game he plays, the max he would make in the NBA is $20m contract guarantee as the number 1 pick.
You also have to factor in:
1. He could still get injured training, pick-up games, and scooter accidents (where he will lie about it) since he won't be in bubble wrap for the next 3 months
2. His draft stock will take a hit so his max earning will go down.
I am a Marquette fan but the current structure of one and dones make the "purity" of college basketball puke worthy. If you are good enough to play pro ball let them play. Keep amateur sport for the college students who actually need to pass more than one semester.
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There’s literally nothing that says Zion is considering this or doesn’t want to be in college.
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Through ncaa it is $5 mil for b-ball, $10 mil for football. However, you can go to private market and get higher coverage as some have done in the past....Jamarcus Russell is one example.
How much you think an additional $10 million is insurance would cost? A few hundred thousand dollars. Maybe several hundred thousand dollars.
The only way he comes up with that kind of money is an agent buys it for him. Then he is in serious violation of NCAA rules.
Duke would be ruled ineligible. Wait, this is Duke, nothing would happen to them.
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Really? So all these years when every game that was sold out or people viewed without Zion was a lie? When he is gone next year no one will be watching Zion? Lol
If you, me, and 3 other members of this board played for Duke, I bet their viewership goes down. They get eye balls because they are good. And they are good because of their players (and coach who is handsomely compensated).
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I agree with your point but that isn't a fair comparison. If you are looking at worst case scenario where he injuries his knee in the next game he plays, the max he would make in the NBA is $20m contract guarantee as the number 1 pick.
You also have to factor in:
1. He could still get injured training, pick-up games, and scooter accidents (where he will lie about it) since he won't be in bubble wrap for the next 3 months
2. His draft stock will take a hit so his max earning will go down.
I am a Marquette fan but the current structure of one and dones make the "purity" of college basketball puke worthy. If you are good enough to play pro ball let them play. Keep amateur sport for the college students who actually need to pass more than one semester.
Yes, he could get in an accident like Jay Williams.
The risk of major injury living ones life is significantly smaller than injury going 100% in a close game against UNC.
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There’s literally nothing that says Zion is considering this or doesn’t want to be in college.
I'm in favor of finding ways to provide players a more fair compensation for what they do, but Zion does seem like one of those kids that really loves to play. I have no doubt he'll be gone to the NBA as soon as he can, but he doesn't strike me as one of those guys that would want to just pump weights and work out for 6 months when there are competitive games still being played that he could be a part of. He'll be at Duke one year, but he does seem to be really enjoying the year.
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Who cares.
Duke and the NCAA are making so much money off Zion, while he can’t.
If it’s allowed, (I’m honestly not sure what the rule is) let him quit school completely, aight a shoe deal and make some money off commercials before he even gets to the NBA.
Zion is also getting to market his skills free of charge and gets attention from the best nutrionist, trainers, tutors, and medical staff at no cost. He gives up one year of DLeague pay which is next to nothing for that. The school makes the money which in reality is who people watch. I did not start or stop watching Marquette because we got Markus and I will continue regardless of the team members.
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It wouldn't bother me in the least from an ethics standpoint if Zion or any other big-name certain NBA star would do what Pippen is advocating, and I wouldn't blame him for leaving.
More than ever, folks believe that college should be a means to an end: getting a career, preferably a good-paying one. Using Duke just as they are using him ... I don't blame him one iota.
But if Zion loves playing college ball, loves his teammates, loves the coaches, loves the competition, loves the DUKE on the jersey, and maybe even gets a thing or two out of a couple of the classes he takes, it's of course A-OK that he stays and plays.
Those who think Duke doesn't sell one more jersey because of Zion ... I dispute that. So every kid who talks dad into buying a Zion jersey was going to want a Duke jersey anyway? Probably not. This guy has caught the imagination of a lot of casual college hoops fans.
If I loved, loved, loved playing basketball at Duke, I'd finish the season. If I only liked it and really wanted to protect my pro career, I'd have zero problems saying, "Thanks for the memories but I'm out."
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It wouldn't bother me in the least from an ethics standpoint if Zion or any other big-name certain NBA star would do what Pippen is advocating, and I wouldn't blame him for leaving.
More than ever, folks believe that college should be a means to an end: getting a career, preferably a good-paying one. Using Duke just as they are using him ... I don't blame him one iota.
But if Zion loves playing college ball, loves his teammates, loves the coaches, loves the competition, loves the DUKE on the jersey, and maybe even gets a thing or two out of a couple of the classes he takes, it's of course A-OK that he stays and plays.
Those who think Duke doesn't sell one more jersey because of Zion ... I dispute that. So every kid who talks dad into buying a Zion jersey was going to want a Duke jersey anyway? Probably not. This guy has caught the imagination of a lot of casual college hoops fans.
If I loved, loved, loved playing basketball at Duke, I'd finish the season. If I only liked it and really wanted to protect my pro career, I'd have zero problems saying, "Thanks for the memories but I'm out."
To be fair Jabari Parker wore no1 at Duke and Kyrie Irving did as well so maybe it would have sold fairly well.
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To be fair Jabari Parker wore no1 at Duke and Kyrie Irving did as well so maybe it would have sold fairly well.
Yep. But the notion that not a single Duke jersey is being sold because of Zion is silly.
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The financial interests of Zion vs the financial interests of Duke....
The argument over whether Zion "owes" Duke (or its fans) anything....
All static.
What about commitment to being part of a TEAM? I don't care about the 1-year vs 4-year part, because his teammates knew he was likely a one-and-done. But Zion's teammates do have a reasonable expectation that he wouldn't bail on them in the middle of a season where they have a very real shot at a Championship. And the DWade argument isn't applicable to the argument over finishing the season, because he played his heart out until the season was over.
There's more to life than money. If he is a good person, he will be a good teammate.
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Hope he shuts it down, then maybe the NCAA and NBA will end this farce by requiring kids to go to college who dont want to be in college
The NBA isn't going to care either way.
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From a financial perspective, there’s zero benefit in continuing to pretend he’s a Duke student. He should go not because of injury risk (any decent agent would have secured an enormous insurance policy for him) but to stick it to the ultimate hypocrites at Duke. Anyone who really believes people are tuning in to Duke games just to watch the school, and not Zion, irretrievably lack common sense and should be forced into a prolonged dinner with four Duke alumni as punishment.
If Williamson leaves the team, there will not be a difference of even one ticket sold at Duke home games. People do buy tickets to see Duke. The ratings for Duke games will change marginally (Zion's friends and family). People do tune in to see Duke.
Williamson is using Duke to build his brand. Could be a bad business decision for him to stop playing.
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Zion is also getting to market his skills free of charge and gets attention from the best nutrionist, trainers, tutors, and medical staff at no cost. He gives up one year of DLeague pay which is next to nothing for that. The school makes the money which in reality is who people watch. I did not start or stop watching Marquette because we got Markus and I will continue regardless of the team members.
Markus Howard may not have specific value to you but having a Markus Howard level player does have value.
Winning matters. If it didn't, DePaul would have just as much fan support, and attendance levels, as Marquette does.
Quality of competition matters, too. That's why the Big East has a TV contract and the WIAC doesn't. WIAC schools have just as many as, or more students than, BE schools. But the name on the front of the jersey means less when you have D-3 quality players instead of D-1.
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Markus Howard may not have specific value to you but having a Markus Howard level player does have value.
Winning matters. If it didn't, DePaul would have just as much fan support, and attendance levels, as Marquette does.
Quality of competition matters, too. That's why the Big East has a TV contract and the WIAC doesn't. WIAC schools have just as many as, or more students than, BE schools. But the name on the front of the jersey means less when you have D-3 quality players instead of D-1.
I agree with much of what you are saying. I expect the value of any individual performer is inversely proportional to how good the school has been over time. A school like Duke is maxed out because they expect to compete for ACC and national titles year in and year out regardless of whether or not Zion Williamson attends. If he were to attend Marquette, I'm sure he would move the dial in attendance and ratings a small percentage. If he were to attend a school like East Tennessee State, I'm sure he would move the dial a great deal.
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Yep. But the notion that not a single Duke jersey is being sold because of Zion is silly.
Fans buy #1 jerseys of their team to denote their fandom as the best, or number 1, too.
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I agree with much of what you are saying. I expect the value of any individual performer is inversely proportional to how good the school has been over time. A school like Duke is maxed out because they expect to compete for ACC and national titles year in and year out regardless of whether or not Zion Williamson attends. If he were to attend Marquette, I'm sure he would move the dial in attendance and ratings a small percentage. If he were to attend a school like East Tennessee State, I'm sure he would move the dial a great deal.
Duke isn't Duke because they have the word "Duke" on their jerseys. Duke is Duke because it consistently brings in players like Zion Williamson. Stop landing players like Zion, and they'll no longer be maxed out.
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Markus Howard may not have specific value to you but having a Markus Howard level player does have value.
Winning matters. If it didn't, DePaul would have just as much fan support, and attendance levels, as Marquette does.
Quality of competition matters, too. That's why the Big East has a TV contract and the WIAC doesn't. WIAC schools have just as many as, or more students than, BE schools. But the name on the front of the jersey means less when you have D-3 quality players instead of D-1.
Winning does matter, but a team like Loyola won without any NBA future stars on their team. One isn't required of the other. Schools like Duke, Marquette, Villanova that put emphasis on basketball will have better players and more fans, because they win. If Zion stops playing, Duke will still have good players and likely fans will still watch to see if they can absorb his loss.
Zion didn't make Duke, Duke helped make Zion.
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I agree with much of what you are saying. I expect the value of any individual performer is inversely proportional to how good the school has been over time. A school like Duke is maxed out because they expect to compete for ACC and national titles year in and year out regardless of whether or not Zion Williamson attends. If he were to attend Marquette, I'm sure he would move the dial in attendance and ratings a small percentage. If he were to attend a school like East Tennessee State, I'm sure he would move the dial a great deal.
Zion is a continuation of the Duke brand. His career at Duke will be short and fleeting. But he will help provide future value just as past players did, like Christian Laettner, Grant Hill, Bobby Hurley, etc.
Players aren't the sole provider of value. They're part of the equation, along with things like conference affiliation, having a star coach, and yes, even one's alumni status.
The name on the front is a huge part of one's rooting interest. It's often the tipping point for fans choosing which team to support. But it's folly to ignore the other factors.
College athletes have such fleeting careers that it is hard to calculate their value in real time. The athletes enter college with little value attached to their names, and shortly after establishing their value they are gone. Much of their value is in the future support of the program.
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Zion is a continuation of the Duke brand. His career at Duke will be short and fleeting. But he will help provide future value just as past players did, like Christian Laettner, Grant Hill, Bobby Hurley, etc.
Players aren't the sole provider of value. They're part of the equation, along with things like conference affiliation, having a star coach, and yes, even one's alumni status.
The name on the front is a huge part of one's rooting interest. It's often the tipping point for fans choosing which team to support. But it's folly to ignore the other factors.
College athletes have such fleeting careers that is hard to calculate their value in real time. The athletes enter college with little value attached to their names, and shortly after establishing their value they are gone. Much of their value is in the future support of the program.
This. Especially the last paragraph.
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Zion didn't make Duke, Duke helped make Zion.
What? No. Duke did nothing to make Zion. The kid has been making ESPN highlights since he was a freshman in high school. He had more Twitter followers as a high schooler than most NBA players.
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What? No. Duke did nothing to make Zion. The kid has been making ESPN highlights since he was a freshman in high school. He had more Twitter followers as a high schooler than most NBA players.
Duke did give Zion a well known platform to showcase himself as opposed to someone like charles bassey at WKU
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Winning does matter, but a team like Loyola won without any NBA future stars on their team. One isn't required of the other. Schools like Duke, Marquette, Villanova that put emphasis on basketball will have better players and more fans, because they win. If Zion stops playing, Duke will still have good players and likely fans will still watch to see if they can absorb his loss.
Zion didn't make Duke, Duke helped make Zion.
It's a mutually beneficial relationship.
Zion is providing the Duke brand with future value. He is a continuation of the Duke brand.
Duke is providing Zion with exposure, which should increase his value in terms of future endorsements.
Ignoring Zion's value to Duke is foolish. Putting a dollar amount on that value is tricky but it's definitely greater than 0.
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In my opinion, where Pippen gets it wrong is when he says that Zion has shown enough in college basketball that he's secured his place in the draft (paraphrasing). Realistically, he didn't even have to do anything. We all knew who Zion was before set foot on the Duke campus, and we all knew he'd be a top pick whenever he enters the draft. Zion didn't need Duke for that.
But, that leads me to a different conclusion that one might expect. He didn't need Duke, yet he committed to go there anyway and be part of that team. So, I think he should honor that commitment to his teammates and to Duke. I'm going to assume that he's not stupid, and he believed he was getting something out of the relationship or he wouldn't have gone. But I don't think it was to increase his draft stock.
Like several others on this thread, I hope this situation helps accelerate the absurd one-and-done rule. If kids are good enough to play in the NBA -- and I think everyone knows that Zion is -- then let them get drafted and play.
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Duke did give Zion a well known platform to showcase himself as opposed to someone like charles bassey at WKU
Zion didn't need Duke's platform to showcase himself. He was well-known to sports fans before setting foot on Duke's campus.
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What? No. Duke did nothing to make Zion. The kid has been making ESPN highlights since he was a freshman in high school. He had more Twitter followers as a high schooler than most NBA players.
Zion was known to the younger crowd, but Duke has helped him become mainstream. He's not catching the eyes of the 40+ crowd if he isn't leading SportsCenter every night. Eventually his brand would've grown as he entered the NBA, similar to Lebron, but playing at Duke specifically increased his platform at an earlier state of his career.
Playing at Duke, as opposed to taking a year off, playing in Europe, or playing for a smaller school, has undoubtedly increased his early career endorsement value.
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Duke and the NCAA absolutely make money off of Zion Williamson.
Duke and the NCAA absolutely don't make "billions" off of Zion Williamson. CT is right that people tune into Duke to see Duke and college basketball as a whole to see college basketball. Now Pakuni is also right that the reason people do that is because of the presence of great players like Zion. But it is because of all the great players that are and have played, not because of Zion specifically.
I have no idea what worth Zion individually brings to Duke and the NCAA, significantly more than the average player I'm sure. Players like him are why I'm for letting players make money off their likeness. I think he gets a pretty sweet deal for playing at Duke but he's one of the few players that I think are actually worth more. I think it would be right to let him make up the difference by being paid for his likeness.
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Winning does matter, but a team like Loyola won without any NBA future stars on their team.
Fluke NCAA runs don't count as proof of anything.
Wisconsin consistently winning big with several guys who weren't super-highly recruited (Kaminsky, Gasser, etc) would have been a much better comparison.
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Zion didn't need Duke's platform to showcase himself. He was well-known to sports fans before setting foot on Duke's campus.
Not like he is now. Not even close.
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Winning does matter, but a team like Loyola won without any NBA future stars on their team. One isn't required of the other. Schools like Duke, Marquette, Villanova that put emphasis on basketball will have better players and more fans, because they win. If Zion stops playing, Duke will still have good players and likely fans will still watch to see if they can absorb his loss.
Zion didn't make Duke, Duke helped make Zion.
+ tax
Especially the last part. Zion is a household name now, that was not the case before he went to Duke. The diehards knew who he was, but not the casual fan which is where his brand will be made. Duke provided that launch point, as does every major program.
If Markus went to a school like his brother, would anyone know who he is? Not a damn chance. The platform matters and the programs, conferences and associated muscle that go with them bring it to light.
People that argue that the player does it all amaze me. As if they just did this at the local junior high gym the same result would happen. Platform matters immensely along with the tremendous amount of money, time, resources in developing the platform and the talent.
The kid (Barrett) that is 2nd team mid season SI all American on Duke, 1% of America knew him last year...maybe. Duke has given him the platform to showcase, improve, provide a free audition for future employers.
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What? No. Duke did nothing to make Zion. The kid has been making ESPN highlights since he was a freshman in high school. He had more Twitter followers as a high schooler than most NBA players.
LOL.
Using your same logic, does he have more Twitter followers since he joined Duke or prior? Please.
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Zion was known to the younger crowd, but Duke has helped him become mainstream. He's not catching the eyes of the 40+ crowd if he isn't leading SportsCenter every night. Eventually his brand would've grown as he entered the NBA, similar to Lebron, but playing at Duke specifically increased his platform at an earlier state of his career.
Playing at Duke, as opposed to taking a year off, playing in Europe, or playing for a smaller school, has undoubtedly increased his early career endorsement value.
I doubt it.
Brands - especially the kind of brands that build marketing campaigns around young, black athletes - aren't aiming for the 40+ crowd. Zion isn't going to be starring in Miller Lite, Dockers and Cialis commercials.
And those brands aren't targeting the few old people who still get their highlights on Sportscenter, they want the kids and Millennials watching Filayyy and Chris Smoove and other YouTube highlights.
My 11-year-old has only watched Sportscenter when I've had it on, but he knew who Zion was two years ago from watching YouTube.
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Not like he is now. Not even close.
+ biggest tax increase in history. It isn’t close
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LOL.
Using your same logic, does he have more Twitter followers since he joined Duke or prior? Please.
1. Stop replying to your own posts.
2. I have no idea, but that's irrelevant. You and others claimed Duke's platform "made" Zion. That's provably false.
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These are the NBA players he had more Twitter followers then....a regular hall of fame worthy cast of players.
Robert Covington – 72.4k
Kevin Knox – 77.9k
Terry Rozier – 117.3k
Aaron Gordon – 144.5k
Jamal Murray – 76.9k
Bobby Portis – 79.3k
Patrick Beverley – 152.6k
Jrue Holiday – 136.5k
Dion Waiters – 124.7k
Justise Winslow – 122k
Gary Harris – 59.3k
Prediction, Barrett will have the better NBA career. Zion’s AAU coach just said there is no way he does this. Too bad, would love it to be the death blow of this nonsense.
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Zion was known to the younger crowd, but Duke has helped him become mainstream. He's not catching the eyes of the 40+ crowd if he isn't leading SportsCenter every night. Eventually his brand would've grown as he entered the NBA, similar to Lebron, but playing at Duke specifically increased his platform at an earlier state of his career.
Playing at Duke, as opposed to taking a year off, playing in Europe, or playing for a smaller school, has undoubtedly increased his early career endorsement value.
Especially the last part. Zion is a household name now, that was not the case before he went to Duke. The diehards knew who he was, but not the casual fan which is where his brand will be made. Duke provided that launch point, as does every major program.
We've had this discussion before, and I just don't think it's accurate. Zion's "brand" is by and large not affected by him going to Duke. Assuming he will be drafted early and will be making highlight plays as soon as he enters the league, that's where his brand develops
These days NBA brands aren't built around "the 40+ crowd" or "the casual fan." They are built from the grassroots up. Look around an NBA arena and see who is wearing the City jersey and the like. It's the 20-30 year old who's been talking about players long before they get to the NBA. Hell my kid who is that age and has disposable income, could care less about college basketball but he knows exactly who Zion Williamson is. And he knew long before he went to Duke.
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These are the NBA players he had more Twitter followers then....a regular hall of fame worthy cast of players.
Robert Covington – 72.4k
Kevin Knox – 77.9k
Terry Rozier – 117.3k
Aaron Gordon – 144.5k
Jamal Murray – 76.9k
Bobby Portis – 79.3k
Patrick Beverley – 152.6k
Jrue Holiday – 136.5k
Dion Waiters – 124.7k
Justise Winslow – 122k
Gary Harris – 59.3k
Prediction, Barrett will have the better NBA career. Zion’s AAU coach just said there is no way he does this. Too bad, would love it to be the death blow of this nonsense.
Congratulations on your copypasta.
Nevermind the fact that we're talking about a high school kid who managed to get more Twitter followers than dozens of professional players (all of whom have the benefits of an NCAA school's platform and the NBA's platform).
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Zion is a household name now, that was not the case before he went to Duke. The diehards knew who he was, but not the casual fan which is where his brand will be made. Duke provided that launch point, as does every major program.
If Markus went to a school like his brother, would anyone know who he is? Not a damn chance. The platform matters and the programs, conferences and associated muscle that go with them bring it to light.
Seems you're saying that if Zion had gone to Marquette, everyone would know who he is. So he did not need the uber-brand that is Duke.
To Duke, he's a commodity to be used. I'm glad he used Duke, too.
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When Zion committed to Duke less than a year ago, he had close to 100,000 followers. He's roughly doubled that in a year. If he was sitting out, would that have happened? Would his individual workouts be leading SportsCenter?
Zion has the potential to build the biggest brand in NBA history. The sooner people with disposable income are aware of him, the sooner that brand will take off. The idea that he becomes a household name to sports fans now, that people with income to spend know his name, and that he doubles his followers now without the backing of the biggest brand in the NCAA and on ESPN seems unlikely at best.
Eventually? Yes. But the attention he's gained NOW doesn't happen in the G-League, individual workouts, or overseas. To this point, and to the point he'll be at when he hears his name called this summer, Duke has absolutely helped increase public awareness of him.
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The NBA isn't going to care either way.
You don't think the NBA would prefer to have him in the league an extra year? The NBA wants talent and marketable stars, Zion is both. If the one and done rule were in place when Lebron left high school, do you think the NBA would have cared if he had to go to college or not for that first year?
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When Zion committed to Duke less than a year ago, he had close to 100,000 followers. He's roughly doubled that in a year. If he was sitting out, would that have happened? Would his individual workouts be leading SportsCenter?
Zion has the potential to build the biggest brand in NBA history. The sooner people with disposable income are aware of him, the sooner that brand will take off. The idea that he becomes a household name to sports fans now, that people with income to spend know his name, and that he doubles his followers now without the backing of the biggest brand in the NCAA and on ESPN seems unlikely at best.
Eventually? Yes. But the attention he's gained NOW doesn't happen in the G-League, individual workouts, or overseas. To this point, and to the point he'll be at when he hears his name called this summer, Duke has absolutely helped increase public awareness of him.
It's probably 80/20 playing in the NCAA versus playing for Duke in terms of awareness. Oklahoma and Duke aren't that close in terms of public awareness from a basketball program standpoint but Tre Young sure got a lot of attention, especially compared to how Oklahoma's season actually turned out. If Zion went to any Major 6 conference program the awareness of him would have gone up significantly. Duke adds some, but not a lot.
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It's probably 80/20 playing in the NCAA versus playing for Duke in terms of awareness. Oklahoma and Duke aren't that close in terms of public awareness from a basketball program standpoint but Tre Young sure got a lot of attention, especially compared to how Oklahoma's season actually turned out. If Zion went to any Major 6 conference program the awareness of him would have gone up significantly. Duke adds some, but not a lot.
I don't know, if it's a Pac-12 or Big East school that's either on late or not on ESPN, I'm not sure he gets that level of exposure. I also don't think it happens to this level at Clemson. Playing alongside Barrett, Reddish, & Jones helps. Ben Simmons never got this at LSU. I think it helps that almost everyone has feelings, whether positive or negative, about Duke.
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Zion didn't need Duke's platform to showcase himself. He was well-known to sports fans before setting foot on Duke's campus.
I agree he didn't need it. But the difference in publicity between Chris Bassey at WKU and Zion is noticeable. Look at it like this, would dukes numbers be noticeably down if Kentucky has Zion and duke was still top 5? I doubt it.
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You don't think the NBA would prefer to have him in the league an extra year? The NBA wants talent and marketable stars, Zion is both. If the one and done rule were in place when Lebron left high school, do you think the NBA would have cared if he had to go to college or not for that first year?
I think the NBA doesn't want to scout or deal with players right out of high school. Lebron was clearly an exception to that rule, but there were a lot of bad decisions being made by high school seniors and the NBA wanted to distance itself from that.
I mean, there was a reason that rule was put in place.
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I agree he didn't need it. But the difference in publicity between Chris Bassey at WKU and Zion is noticeable. Look at it like this, would dukes numbers be noticeably down if Kentucky has Zion and duke was still top 5? I doubt it.
I'm not arguing Duke's numbers here. I agree that Duke;s numbers aren't significantly impacted either way.
But Zion didn't need Duke - just like LeBron and Kobe and Kevin Garnett didn't need college - to be recognizable and marketable the instant they became pros.
I don't see the Bassey analogy. He was never the viral/media sensation Zion was.
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I'm not arguing Duke's numbers here. I agree that Duke;s numbers aren't significantly impacted either way.
But Zion didn't need Duke - just like LeBron and Kobe and Kevin Garnett didn't need college - to be recognizable and marketable the instant they became pros.
Neither needed each other, but both benefit from the relationship. Duke was going to be a marquee program regardless & Zion would likely become a NBA superstar regardless, but both parties are garnering more attention because of their relationship.
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Honest question...
I know that some schools spend a lot of money hyping athletes. I'm thinking specifically of the practice of schools actively campaigning for Heisman candidates. They send out flashy materials and spend a lot of time, money and effort doing this. Does this happen in basketball? I honestly don't know. I found it remarkable how Trae Young burst into the national scene last year. Was that just because the Big12 has a broadcast deal with ESPN? Or is there more to it than that? Is OU really pushing this kid, sending stuff out, etc.
If we're talking about where Zion was going to get drafted, I think playing at Duke really probably didn't affect that much if at all. If we're talking about publicity (which, I suppose, equates to endorsement $$), I think it probably did help him quite a bit. And if Duke is actually spending even more money promoting him for awards, etc., then that certainly has value to him.
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if ya build it, they will come
zion could have played for high point university and their gym wouldn't have had enough room for all the media
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Congratulations on your copypasta.
Nevermind the fact that we're talking about a high school kid who managed to get more Twitter followers than dozens of professional players (all of whom have the benefits of an NCAA school's platform and the NBA's platform).
Mostly NBA Stiff’s that few would care about.
When Zion announced he was going to Duke his followers increased. Since attending Duke they have increased more.
Don’t get me wrong, he had started his brand long before, but by going to Duke he was now on center stage. A school that is on TV all the time. He didn’t choose to go to a school that he could put over the top, he went to a school already at the top of the mountain.
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Seems you're saying that if Zion had gone to Marquette, everyone would know who he is. So he did not need the uber-brand that is Duke.
To Duke, he's a commodity to be used. I'm glad he used Duke, too.
He is more known going to Duke than MU, let that be clear. If he went to MU, he would be more well known than if he went to Mississippi State...so on and so forth.
He chose a school already at the top of a mountain for a reason....launch platform, more exposure, etc, etc
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I agree he didn't need it. But the difference in publicity between Chris Bassey at WKU and Zion is noticeable. Look at it like this, would dukes numbers be noticeably down if Kentucky has Zion and duke was still top 5? I doubt it.
Bingo. Where he chose matters
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Bingo. Where he chose matters
I hate it when we agree. And it's been happening more than not with your resurgence.
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I hate it when we agree. And it's been happening more than not with your resurgence.
Smooch
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(https://i.imgflip.com/18gke8.jpg)
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He is more known going to Duke than MU, let that be clear. If he went to MU, he would be more well known than if he went to Mississippi State...so on and so forth.
He chose a school already at the top of a mountain for a reason....launch platform, more exposure, etc, etc
You have no idea why Zion chose Duke. Neither do I, but I don't pretend that I do.
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I think the NBA doesn't want to scout or deal with players right out of high school. Lebron was clearly an exception to that rule, but there were a lot of bad decisions being made by high school seniors and the NBA wanted to distance itself from that.
I mean, there was a reason that rule was put in place.
You are right that NBA GMs do not want to scout or deal with high schoolers. And NBA coaches also don't want to have to deal with teenagers, especially those on bad teams whose GMs order the coaches to play not-ready teenagers.
However, NBA commish Adam Silver has said many times that he favors eliminating the 1-and-done rule and going back to letting kids come into the league right out of high school. And he has said he thinks that's what will happen.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2018/07/10/adam-silver-nba-one-and-done/773991002/
In the end, it will be collectively bargained.
All the folks who want athletes to have to spend 2 years in college will be very disappointed because the union is HIGHLY unlikely to agree to that. Far more likely that the best players will be going preps-to-pros again -- as both the great LeBron James and the slightly less than great Darius Miles did.
Zion Williamson obviously should not have to spend 7 months pretending to care about college -- if that's what he's doing. For all any of us know, he loves school.
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You have no idea why Zion chose Duke. Neither do I, but I don't pretend that I do.
I know the list of schools he was down to, and he chose to go to the one at the top of the mountain. It was Clemson and Duke, he chose Duke. I think educated people can guess why. Better program, better platform, more exposure would be my intelligent guesses. Yes, they are guesses. I don't need to pretend on this one.
OH, I can also just listen to what Zion said himself. I don't have to guess, I can just sit back and listen to him....unless you are saying he's a liar? Best place to build his brand, best platform....DUKE! Notice it was BUILD the brand, because despite these weird claims that his brand was already built and he didn't need Duke because hey, he had Twitter followers, he said BUILD his brand. LOL
“It wasn’t just about basketball and what he could do for me in one year,” said Williamson, who is expected to only stay a year in college before turning pro. “It was how he can build Zion as a brand on and off the court for like the next 20 years and the rest of my life.”
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I know the list of schools he was down to, and he chose to go to the one at the top of the mountain. It was Clemson and Duke, he chose Duke. I think educated people can guess why. Better program, better platform, more exposure would be my intelligent guesses. Yes, they are guesses. I don't need to pretend on this one.
OH, I can also just listen to what Zion said himself. I don't have to guess, I can just sit back and listen to him....unless you are saying he's a liar? Best place to build his brand, best platform....DUKE! Notice it was BUILD the brand, because despite these weird claims that his brand was already built and he didn't need Duke because hey, he had Twitter followers, he said BUILD his brand. LOL
“It wasn’t just about basketball and what he could do for me in one year,” said Williamson, who is expected to only stay a year in college before turning pro. “It was how he can build Zion as a brand on and off the court for like the next 20 years and the rest of my life.”
Fair enough. Duke obviously is a good place to do brand-building.
Even Elton Brand-building!
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All the folks who want athletes to have to spend 2 years in college will be very disappointed because the union is HIGHLY unlikely to agree to that. Far more likely that the best players will be going preps-to-pros again -- as both the great LeBron James and the slightly less than great Darius Miles did.
Zion Williamson obviously should not have to spend 7 months pretending to care about college -- if that's what he's doing. For all any of us know, he loves school.
Weird, but in his own words he said Duke will help him build his brand. So maybe he finds some value in it. At any rate, those are his words so let's not pay attention to them.
As for the straight to the Pros....please let it happen. Stop the nonsense, I hope 100 of these guys declare each year, flood the NBA with talent that is unknown and force teams to take stretch guesses on how good they will be. Going to be awesome. The guys that know they belong in college will play in college, as it should be. BRING. IT. ON.
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As for the straight to the Pros....please let it happen. Stop the nonsense, I hope 100 of these guys declare each year, flood the NBA with talent that is unknown and force teams to take stretch guesses on how good they will be. Going to be awesome. The guys that know they belong in college will play in college, as it should be. BRING. IT. ON.
Well, it won't be 100 each year, but it will be plenty. Most won't make it, just as it was years ago.
I agree that these players going to the NBA won't hurt college basketball; might even help it as you suggest.
I feel the same about letting players transfer freely, without sitting out. Those screaming that it would be Armageddon for college hoops are drama queens.
Love to stay and chat, chicos, but I gotta get my beauty sleep. I need it more than most.
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You are right that NBA GMs do not want to scout or deal with high schoolers. And NBA coaches also don't want to have to deal with teenagers, especially those on bad teams whose GMs order the coaches to play not-ready teenagers.
However, NBA commish Adam Silver has said many times that he favors eliminating the 1-and-done rule and going back to letting kids come into the league right out of high school. And he has said he thinks that's what will happen.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2018/07/10/adam-silver-nba-one-and-done/773991002/
In the end, it will be collectively bargained.
All the folks who want athletes to have to spend 2 years in college will be very disappointed because the union is HIGHLY unlikely to agree to that. Far more likely that the best players will be going preps-to-pros again -- as both the great LeBron James and the slightly less than great Darius Miles did.
Zion Williamson obviously should not have to spend 7 months pretending to care about college -- if that's what he's doing. For all any of us know, he loves school.
What many people forget is that the one and done was collectively bargain and agreed to by the players union. If the deal was so bad why would they and the answer is that it benefits them.
For every Lebron James there is an Eddie Curry and more. The NBA GMs could grab a player or two and stash them in the never going to play end of the bench and pay them league minimum in the hopes they break out. That doesn’t really hurt the GM but it does hurt the veteran players who are in years 5, 6, 7 of service who would have those positions and get paid a higher league minimum. By forcing them to go one extra year they were giving those veterans and extra year or more as players didn’t go early. It was a win for all parties. Now we are seeing a excess of players leaving one and done. I think we will see a move to stash players in the dleague at lower than league minimum and it would be easier to do that if they can’t declare on their own after 1, 2,3 years in school.
The number of 1 and dones that flame out is also high.
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Let’s not forget that Duke’s brand is building too because Zion is there. Duke gets a lot of publicity by being on Sportscenter. Their brand is more established but it’s still building.
Look at the conversation we are having about UCLA. Or look at Indiana. It’s hard to stay up on a blue blood level. Zion is helping them do that.
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What many people forget is that the one and done was collectively bargain and agreed to by the players union. If the deal was so bad why would they and the answer is that it benefits them.
For every Lebron James there is an Eddie Curry and more. The NBA GMs could grab a player or two and stash them in the never going to play end of the bench and pay them league minimum in the hopes they break out. That doesn’t really hurt the GM but it does hurt the veteran players who are in years 5, 6, 7 of service who would have those positions and get paid a higher league minimum. By forcing them to go one extra year they were giving those veterans and extra year or more as players didn’t go early. It was a win for all parties. Now we are seeing a excess of players leaving one and done. I think we will see a move to stash players in the dleague at lower than league minimum and it would be easier to do that if they can’t declare on their own after 1, 2,3 years in school.
The number of 1 and dones that flame out is also high.
I would say though that the more built up G-League, including a franchise for the majority of NBA teams, creates a support network for these guys that wasn't in place 15-20 years ago.
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Let’s not forget that Duke’s brand is building too because Zion is there. Duke gets a lot of publicity by being on Sportscenter. Their brand is more established but it’s still building.
Look at the conversation we are having about UCLA. Or look at Indiana. It’s hard to stay up on a blue blood level. Zion is helping them do that.
Sure, but as someone else said, players there for a short time....the program is the constant. Duke does more for Zion then Zion does for Duke. Coach K does more for Duke than anyone, and that is UCLA and IU’s challenge. College ball the coach is key, pro ball it is the players.
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Why does the NFL have a three-and-done policy-- redshirt soph. or jr. -- and the NBA has a one-and-done policy?
Trevor Lawrence looked like an veteran NFL QB vs. 'Bama, yet he has to play for Clemson for two more seasons.
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After this season, Zion is getting a massive shoe deal, massive rookie contract and massive endorsements, because of Zion, not because of Duke. Are you kidding me?
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I don't agree with the idea that he owes Duke nothing. Thit's isn't the actual language but the idea is "We pay your tuition (and all other fees and services) you play a basketball season for us." I think quitting now is going back on that deal.
Now if you're saying we should change things so that isn't the deal going forward, I could have that conversation. But right now I don't think it's right to go back on your end of the bargain. If you're worried about injury, take out an insurance policy.
You're exactly right.
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Why does the NFL have a three-and-done policy-- redshirt soph. or jr. -- and the NBA has a one-and-done policy?
Trevor Lawrence looked like an veteran NFL QB vs. 'Bama, yet he has to play for Clemson for two more seasons.
Because the NBA has a much stronger players union than the NFL, whose owners treat their players like well-paid but disposable slaves. Only a handful of NFL players even have guaranteed contracts.
A couple of players tried to challenge the NFL in court over this issue and lost, as they should. The NFL has every right to enforce its own employment rules, especially given that they have been endorsed by the NFLPA.
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Because the NBA has a much stronger players union than the NFL, whose owners treat their players like well-paid but disposable slaves. Only a handful of NFL players even have guaranteed contracts.
A couple of players tried to challenge the NFL in court over this issue and lost, as they should. The NFL has every right to enforce its own employment rules, especially given that they have been endorsed by the NFLPA.
Here we go.....disposable slaves. CHECK
Yup, the parallels are striking
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Here we go.....disposable slaves. CHECK
Yup, the parallels are striking
Here we go ...
People dying of cancer ... and Tim Tebow dealing with folks who don't like him. CHECK
Yup, the parallels are striking.
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Because the NBA has a much stronger players union than the NFL, whose owners treat their players like well-paid but disposable slaves. Only a handful of NFL players even have guaranteed contracts.
A couple of players tried to challenge the NFL in court over this issue and lost, as they should. The NFL has every right to enforce its own employment rules, especially given that they have been endorsed by the NFLPA.
NBA and NFL players are treated infinitely better than any other employees in this country.
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More than 60% off NFL players receive guarantees or signing bonuses (which are by definition a guarantee of money). Source: the National Football League
“Only a handful”..... ::)
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Grant Hills says Zion should not shut it down
https://www.nbcsports.com/video/should-zion-shut-it-down-grant-hill-disagrees-scottie-pippen
Shocking!
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Grant Hills says Zion should not shut it down
https://www.nbcsports.com/video/should-zion-shut-it-down-grant-hill-disagrees-scottie-pippen
Shocking!
Grant Hill, man with integrity.
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https://www.si.com/college-basketball/2019/01/20/zion-williamson-nba-draft-wont-end-duke-career-early
He is going to play.
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Counting the UNC game (which he played only 36 seconds), this makes five straight.
He was originally day-to-day.
Duke burned the red-shirt for Joey Baker right after Zion was hurt.
My guess is he's not coming back until the tournament if for no other reason than to show he's ok.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26143566/zion-miss-another-game-no-4-blue-devils
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Counting the UNC game (which he played only 36 seconds), this makes five straight.
He was originally day-to-day.
Duke burned the red-shirt for Joey Baker right after Zion was hurt.
My guess is he's not coming back until the tournament if for no other reason than to show he's ok.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26143566/zion-miss-another-game-no-4-blue-devils
Why would he need to show he's okay? Isn't the whole point of sitting out because he has the #1 pick locked up?
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Why would he need to show he's okay? Isn't the whole point of sitting out because he has the #1 pick locked up?
True.
Do you think he is done?
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Counting the UNC game (which he played only 36 seconds), this makes five straight.
He was originally day-to-day.
Duke burned the red-shirt for Joey Baker right after Zion was hurt.
My guess is he's not coming back until the tournament if for no other reason than to show he's ok.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26143566/zion-miss-another-game-no-4-blue-devils
Diagnosed with a grade 1 knee sprain, typical recovery is two to four weeks. He is likely to play before the NCAA tournament next week in the ACC tournament.
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Clay Travis does the “out kick the coverage “ podcast.
He floated a conspiracy theory that Zion is done. Coach K knows they are not nearly as good without Zion. See how they struggled against Wake Forest, who is not good.
So K is pretending that Zion is returning to keep them in the hunt for the one seed. He’s trying to tell the committee to seed them as if Zion is still playing
Also K said Zion is not playing Saturday against UNC. Also said he is not practicing with the team since his shoe exploded.
You buying this theory.
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For what its worth, Coach K has said he expects him to play in the ACC tournament.
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He looked just fine tonight.
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Zion's season at Duke helped him more than going straight to the NBA.
http://www.sportingnews.com/us/ncaa-basketball/news/zion-williamsons-season-at-duke-will-have-bigger-payoff-than-straight-to-nba-route/12xn8qwtril1w1dxrf5rcny58y
Will be interesting to see how that team does with all the youth in the tournament. Clearly they are talented to the hilt, but one game elimination can be tough situation for the younger dudes (some exceptions with Michigan, Kentucky, etc)
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Zion's season at Duke helped him more than going straight to the NBA.
http://www.sportingnews.com/us/ncaa-basketball/news/zion-williamsons-season-at-duke-will-have-bigger-payoff-than-straight-to-nba-route/12xn8qwtril1w1dxrf5rcny58y
Will be interesting to see how that team does with all the youth in the tournament. Clearly they are talented to the hilt, but one game elimination can be tough situation for the younger dudes (some exceptions with Michigan, Kentucky, etc)
Zion was not the highest rated High School recruit last year. That was his teammate RJ Barrett.
So if high schoolers could go straight into the draft, this presumably means he would not have been the first high schooler picked last year. Nor would he have been the second overall pick after Barrett. I think that at least Ayton, Bagley, and Donicic would have all been picked ahead of him. So, at best he would have been the fifth pick last year.
By playing for Duke this year he went from "another lottery pick" to a potential multi-MVP transformational player in the mold of Jordan, LeBron, and Durant.
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Zion was not the highest rated High School recruit last year. That was his teammate RJ Barrett.
So if high schoolers could go straight into the draft, this presumably means he would not have been the first high schooler picked last year. Nor would he have been the second overall pick after Barrett. I think that at least Ayton, Bagley, and Donicic would have all been picked ahead of him. So, at best he would have been the fifth pick last year.
By playing for Duke this year he went from "another lottery pick" to a potential multi-MVP transformational player in the mold of Jordan, LeBron, and Durant.
NBA general managers do not base their draft selections on the rankings of Rivals and 247.
If they had Zion in a predraft workout environment, I have little doubt he'd have emerged as the top prospect from the class of 2019. His physicality alone would have proved him a far more ready NBA prospect than Barrett.
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NBA general managers do not base their draft selections on the rankings of Rivals and 247.
If they had Zion in a predraft workout environment, I have little doubt he'd have emerged as the top prospect from the class of 2019. His physicality alone would have proved him a far more ready NBA prospect than Barrett.
More than Ayton, Bagley, and Doncic?
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I am glad Zion came back to play because he obviously wanted to come back and play.
He obviously loves the game, loves the competition and loves his teammates. It's a joy watching him play.
When these discussions take place we -- even guys like Scottie Pippen -- often forget that maybe the kid simply wants to play.
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More than Ayton, Bagley, and Doncic?
None of these guys are class of 2019. But yes, Zion certainly would have been deemed a better and more NBA-ready prospect than Bagley or Doncic (who, you might recall, essentially was drafted behind Trae Young and Jaren Jackson)
Ayton would have been an interesting case. NBA teams have a hard time passing up dominant 7 footers, at times to their detriment (see: Greg Oden over Kevin Durant).
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None of these guys are class of 2019. But yes, Zion certainly would have been deemed a better and more NBA-ready prospect than Bagley or Doncic (who, you might recall, essentially was drafted behind Trae Young and Jaren Jackson)
Ayton would have been an interesting case. NBA teams have a hard time passing up dominant 7 footers, at times to their detriment (see: Greg Oden over Kevin Durant).
So you think his season at Duke did nothing to improve his draft status?
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So you think his season at Duke did nothing to improve his draft status?
I think he'd be the first pick in this upcoming draft regardless of where he played, including the G League or overseas.
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Zion was not the highest rated High School recruit last year. That was his teammate RJ Barrett.
So if high schoolers could go straight into the draft, this presumably means he would not have been the first high schooler picked last year. Nor would he have been the second overall pick after Barrett. I think that at least Ayton, Bagley, and Donicic would have all been picked ahead of him. So, at best he would have been the fifth pick last year.
By playing for Duke this year he went from "another lottery pick" to a potential multi-MVP transformational player in the mold of Jordan, LeBron, and Durant.
Hard to say if he would have gone first or not, we're all looking at it through hindsight of what he did at Duke, but you are correct he wasn't the highest rated recruit. I could be persuaded either way and none of us will ever know.
My opinion, same as DeCourcey, the Duke experience HELPED him get to #1 and made his brand even more valuable. He doesn't become just any other highly ranked player, he has 1 year of insanity buzz that Duke platform helped to deliver for him which he will monetize with shoes and other endorsements to the hilt.