Losing Formula: Kneejerk Substituting (Wojo's forte)

[Floorslapper]

Anyone realize that Wojo finally let guys get in a flow, and not be yanked in and out of a game? 

NO SUBS from 12:40 mark on when we trailed 43-37.  Put Chartouney in for Anim at that moment.

Joe
Markus
Joey
Sam
Theo

[wadesworld]

Anyone realize that Wojo finally let guys get in a flow, and not be yanked in and out of a game? 

NO SUBS from 12:40 mark on when we trailed 43-37.  Put Chartouney in for Anim at that moment.

Joe
Markus
Joey
Sam
Theo

Imagine what our top 10 offense in the country the last couple years could've done if our coach didn't go all knee jerk substitution on these kids and let them actually get in a flow. 

[tower912]

Same complaint you had about Buzz.    If it was one of the guys you liked.   And I distinctly remember you complaining about the lack of subbing if you wanted somebody back in the game. 

[Floorslapper]

Same complaint you had about Buzz.    If it was one of the guys you liked.

Yep.  There were times I didn't like Buzz's manic subbing - notably his last season at MU.

Imagine what our top 10 offense in the country the last couple years could've done if our coach didn't go all knee jerk substitution on these kids and let them actually get in a flow. 

It was an area I felt Wojo improved in and have said as much, yet he once again defaulted to his primary M.O. thus far this year = "Mistake" = Bench.

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

Anyone realize that Wojo finally let guys get in a flow, and not be yanked in and out of a game? 

NO SUBS from 12:40 mark on when we trailed 43-37.  Put Chartouney in for Anim at that moment.

Joe
Markus
Joey
Sam
Theo

Unfortunately hes too stupid to realize this should be our starting n base lineup!!!

[BM1090]

I'll acknowledge you may be right if you can acknowledge that the reason he "let them play" was because the guys on the court played well, therefore he left them in.

Chicken and egg

[jesmu84]

Anyone realize that Wojo finally let guys get in a flow, and not be yanked in and out of a game? 

NO SUBS from 12:40 mark on when we trailed 43-37.  Put Chartouney in for Anim at that moment.

Joe
Markus
Joey
Sam
Theo

Do you concede it may also be a possibility that these guys were playing well and playing the way wojo wanted them to play thus he saw no need for a sub?

[Floorslapper]

Unfortunately hes too stupid to realize this should be our starting n base lineup!!!

It's been an ongoing problem for him since he arrived...except last year when it was a no-brainer.

[GGGG]

Unfortunately hes too stupid to realize this should be our starting n base lineup!!!

I hope you understand, if your theory is that Wojo is "stupid," that no one is really going to take you seriously.  That's an argument a 4 year old makes.

[Floorslapper]

I'll acknowledge you may be right if you can acknowledge that the reason he "let them play" was because the guys on the court played well, therefore he left them in.

Chicken and egg

Do you concede it may also be a possibility that these guys were playing well and playing the way wojo wanted them to play thus he saw no need for a sub?

You cannot let how a group opens a game/starts, dictate what you do.

You define your best lineup, how the pieces best fit together, and if it starts slow/struggles - you are convicted enough in your conviction to play it out and expect a PROGRESSION to the mean.

Consistency matters.  It is incredibly hard to be efficient and effective in the game of basketball when playing in the traditional sense of being on a team, with a coach, who dictates playing time and never knowing how short the leash is going to be, and that there is zero consistency to your role. 

[79Warrior]

Anyone realize that Wojo finally let guys get in a flow, and not be yanked in and out of a game? 

NO SUBS from 12:40 mark on when we trailed 43-37.  Put Chartouney in for Anim at that moment.

Joe
Markus
Joey
Sam
Theo

This is the lineup that needs to be on the floor the most.

[Floorslapper]

This is the lineup that needs to be on the floor the most.

Hopefully Wojo takes the obvious that was laid out in front of him and consistently goes with this lineup going forward.  Now, considering after our great win at Creighton when he was forced to go with just Andrew (after Markus got hurt), and went to a zone, and we overcame a 15 point deficit and won on the road - he reverted back to the two small and M2M lineup - who knows?

Markus at PG is an experiment we've seen enough of.  He's not effective at all, and much better off the ball.  No idea how/why Wojo struggles with this..just as he did playing Cheatham at PG.

[WarriorDad]

I hope you understand, if your theory is that Wojo is "stupid," that no one is really going to take you seriously.  That's an argument a 4 year old makes.

The description of him seems appropriate.  Maybe 6 year old in a stretch.

[wadesworld]

Hopefully Wojo takes the obvious that was laid out in front of him and consistently goes with this lineup going forward.  Now, considering after our great win at Creighton when he was forced to go with just Andrew (after Markus got hurt), and went to a zone, and we overcame a 15 point deficit and won on the road - he reverted back to the two small and M2M lineup - who knows?

Markus at PG is an experiment we've seen enough of.  He's not effective at all, and much better off the ball.  No idea how/why Wojo struggles with this..just as he did playing Cheatham at PG.

We also beat Creighton with our 2 small lineup the other time we played them, so...

[Herman Cain]

Anyone realize that Wojo finally let guys get in a flow, and not be yanked in and out of a game? 

NO SUBS from 12:40 mark on when we trailed 43-37.  Put Chartouney in for Anim at that moment.

Joe
Markus
Joey
Sam
Theo

When Wojo lets players get in the flow of the game good things have historically resulted. Part of building a players confidence is showing confidence in them .   The yanking of guys like Cain who do not force bad shots etc is not helpful. Creates unnecessary tension.

[jesmu84]

You cannot let how a group opens a game/starts, dictate what you do.

You define your best lineup, how the pieces best fit together, and if it starts slow/struggles - you are convicted enough in your conviction to play it out and expect a PROGRESSION to the mean. thanks

Consistency matters.  It is incredibly hard to be efficient and effective in the game of basketball when playing in the traditional sense of being on a team, with a coach, who dictates playing time and never knowing how short the leash is going to be, and that there is zero consistency to your role.

So you refuse to concede another viewpoint is a possibility. Got it.

[BM1090]

I can at least understand the arguments in this thread.

I am pulling my hair out every time you mention "pulling" Cain. It was his first start. Maybe he planned on getting JC in for him early regardless. Maybe Cain knew this.

Also just realized we have two JCs

[1SE]

The first 30 games pretty much everyone not named Sam Hauser played tense.

I'm glad he finally let Chartouny have some extended run - this is exactly what I was talking about in the other thread - you can't see what a guy can do if you only leave him in for 4 minute spurts.

[wadesworld]

The first 30 games pretty much everyone not named Sam Hauser played tense.

I'm glad he finally let Chartouny have some extended run - this is exactly what I was talking about in the other thread - you can't see what a guy can do if you only leave him in for 4 minute spurts.

Well if guys can't get a flow going in a 4 minute spurt then they never are going to get a flow going.  There's a TV timeout literally every 4 minutes.  So I guess Wojo is doing it right then.

[Floorslapper]

So you refuse to concede another viewpoint is a possibility. Got it.

I can concede this:  If one of your subs off the bench comes in the game for a starter and has a hot hand and is playing well - you ride him longer than usual/extend starters rest.

But. On the balance. Starters roles and substitutions should be consistent unless dictated by foul trouble.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

So how long do you have to play a player who is having an off night until it's safe to bring in a sub?

[GGGG]

So how long do you have to play a player who is having an off night until it's safe to bring in a sub?

Right. And match ups count. Sometimes one line up isn't going to work as well as another and it takes time to figure it out.

The idea that some needs to play more than four minutes to get "flow" isn't necessarily accurate.

[forgetful]

So how long do you have to play a player who is having an off night until it's safe to bring in a sub?

Duh, as long as Ners thinks is correct, but not a second longer...because he dunked once in the rec center.

[brewcity77]

Chartouny was great tonight, but the idea that he should've been playing 25-30 minutes the first three games is ludicrous. I'm as big a fan of his game as anyone, but he had bad stretches and deservingly came off. Tonight he played well, under control, and wasn't overextending like we saw earlier. It looked like he learned from his past stints on the bench.

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

I hope you understand, if your theory is that Wojo is "stupid," that no one is really going to take you seriously.  That's an argument a 4 year old makes.

A 4 year old can see that should be our starting lineup.  A 4 year says "Daddy number 0 sucks at PG"