Losing Formula: Kneejerk Substituting (Wojo's forte)

[Pakuni]

I'd much prefer a coach who's flexible with his lineups and willing to adjust playing time based upon matchups, who's performing well over a given stretch, etc.
I think we can debate how well Wojo does that, but to insist that he should stick with a set lineup and minute allocation just because seems pretty dumb. One of the advantages of recruiting depth is the flexibility it provides, as well as the ability to ride a hot hand. To not take advantage of that would be bad coaching.

[tower912]

This all seems familiar, somehow......     Kneejerk reactions to substituting (Ners forte)

[Floorslapper]

Watch a Bucks game and watch how Bud coaches. There's a reason the Bucks are WAY better this year and it's not because they acquired Brooke Lopez and Ersan.

It's scheme. Defined roles. Consistent starting lineup. Consistent rotation.

All you guys who played in the band, volleyball, or sat in the stands while watching your high school basketball team play - probably an exercise in futility for you guys to comprehend.

[wadesworld]

Watch a Bucks game and watch how Bud coaches. There's a reason the Bucks are WAY better this year and it's not because they acquired Brooke Lopez and Ersan.

It's scheme. Defined roles. Consistent starting lineup. Consistent rotation.

All you guys who played in the band, volleyball, or sat in the stands while watching your high school basketball team play - probably an exercise in futility for you guys to comprehend.

Congrats on your All Northwoods Conference selection 30 years ago bud. We are not worthy. You are the only poster who's ever seen a basketball court.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Watch a Bucks game and watch how Bud coaches. There's a reason the Bucks are WAY better this year and it's not because they acquired Brooke Lopez and Ersan.

It's scheme. Defined roles. Consistent starting lineup. Consistent rotation.

All you guys who played in the band, volleyball, or sat in the stands while watching your high school basketball team play - probably an exercise in futility for you guys to comprehend.

Just a fyi, no sport has more defined roles than volleyball. So if anything, you're the one who doesn't understand what a defined role is.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Watch a Bucks game and watch how Bud coaches. There's a reason the Bucks are WAY better this year and it's not because they acquired Brooke Lopez and Ersan.

It's scheme. Defined roles. Consistent starting lineup. Consistent rotation.

All you guys who played in the band, volleyball, or sat in the stands while watching your high school basketball team play - probably an exercise in futility for you guys to comprehend.

What a hilariously pathetic comment. Or pathetically hilarous. Classic Ners.

Outstanding.

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

Chartouny was great tonight, but the idea that he should've been playing 25-30 minutes the first three games is ludicrous. I'm as big a fan of his game as anyone, but he had bad stretches and deservingly came off. Tonight he played well, under control, and wasn't overextending like we saw earlier. It looked like he learned from his past stints on the bench.

First two, i agree.  He was one our better players against IU n kept getting yanked.

[burger]

Or maybe coincidentally......

Markus was not playing point guard during that time either.....

His passing and decision-making the last two games has been incredibly bad.....(aka while attempting to play point)

[Floorslapper]

Just a fyi, no sport has more defined roles than volleyball. So if anything, you're the one who doesn't understand what a defined role is.

Thanks for making my point:  You won't find me on a volleyball message board making idiotic points thinking I know much about the game of volleyball because I played it in P.E., and intramurals.

[wadesworld]

Furman tied with Nova with under 10 minutes to go. It's clear Jay Wright hasn't played enough basketball in his life to know you need to let your starters go at least 40 minutes before you sub. Let them get a flow!

(I love Ners's argument. Those who don't agree that our coach has it all wrong just haven't played enough basketball so they don't understand. Our coach was only a McDonald's AA and played at Duke. But that pales in comparison to Ners's Wausau career and babysitting kids at Buzz's summer camps.)

[Floorslapper]

What a hilariously pathetic comment. Or pathetically hilarous. Classic Ners.

Outstanding.

The irony.  Your hot takes here are hilariously basketball ignorant and pathetic.  Classic Blue Man Group.

Looking a hell of a lot more likely that I was 100% right in identifying that Wojo didn't have "it" just 8 games into his career at MU.

[wadesworld]

Thanks for making my point:  You won't find me on a volleyball message board making idiotic points thinking I know much about the game of volleyball because I played it in P.E., and intramurals.

Yeah you'll just sit here claiming anyone who doesn't agree with you Just was a band boy and doesn't understand the game. Because you've played way more basketball at a much higher level than Wojo. Got it bud.

[Floorslapper]

Furman tied with Nova with under 10 minutes to go. It's clear Jay Wright hasn't played enough basketball in his life to know you need to let your starters go at least 40 minutes before you sub. Let them get a flow!

(I love Ners's argument. Those who don't agree that our coach has it all wrong just haven't played enough basketball so they don't understand. Our coach was only a McDonald's AA and played at Duke. But that pales in comparison to Ners's Wausau career and babysitting kids at Buzz's summer camps.)

Our coach's results speak for themselves, despite his playing at Duke and sitting next to Coach K.  I get that you are all in on Wojo and been President of the Wojo Fanboy club - but it's certainly not looking good for you bud.

And for the love of God, would you and the other Wojo fanboys please stop using silly analogies to Jay Wright and Villanova.  Jay is 8-1 against Wojo and has won 2 National Titles, made 3 Final Fours, and made the NCAA 13 out of the last 14 years.

[connie]

Watch a Bucks game and watch how Bud coaches. There's a reason the Bucks are WAY better this year and it's not because they acquired Brooke Lopez and Ersan.

It's scheme. Defined roles. Consistent starting lineup. Consistent rotation.

All you guys who played in the band, volleyball, or sat in the stands while watching your high school basketball team play - probably an exercise in futility for you guys to comprehend.

This the end to any intelligent discussion.

[jsglow]

Chartouny was great tonight, but the idea that he should've been playing 25-30 minutes the first three games is ludicrous. I'm as big a fan of his game as anyone, but he had bad stretches and deservingly came off. Tonight he played well, under control, and wasn't overextending like we saw earlier. It looked like he learned from his past stints on the bench.

The key to Joseph today was that he relaxed and let the game come to him.  He was awful his first couple outings because he was clearly trying too hard.  And when Markus slid to the #2 he relaxed too.  We're so much better when those guys are in their natural positions and letting it flow.

[We R Final Four]

I can at least understand the arguments in this thread.

I am pulling my hair out every time you mention "pulling" Cain. It was his first start. Maybe he planned on getting JC in for him early regardless. Maybe Cain knew this.

Also just realized we have two JCs

......and two MHs

[GGGG]

Watch a Bucks game and watch how Bud coaches. There's a reason the Bucks are WAY better this year and it's not because they acquired Brooke Lopez and Ersan.

It's scheme. Defined roles. Consistent starting lineup. Consistent rotation.

All you guys who played in the band, volleyball, or sat in the stands while watching your high school basketball team play - probably an exercise in futility for you guys to comprehend.

Actually the Bucks are doing more to match up and go with the hot hand in their late game substitutions then I recall them doing under Kidd.

At the beginning of the game, sure.  They have a relatively set rotation just like any NBA team does.  But that's because NBA games are mostly about jockeying for the second half than anything.  But at the end of the game?  He doesn't have a set rotation - and I've seen about eight or so of their games this year.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

The irony.  Your hot takes here are hilariously basketball ignorant and pathetic.  Classic Blue Man Group.

Looking a hell of a lot more likely that I was 100% right in identifying that Wojo didn't have "it" just 8 games into his career at MU.

Would love some examples of these "hot takes". I guess telling people not to freak out because of getting destroyed at IU is over the top.

You literally believing you know basketball better than others because you played in high school is just so sad. You're a joke and you don't even realize it. How many different screen names have you had to sign up for on this board?

That's not a hot take - it's reality.

[wadesworld]

Our coach's results speak for themselves, despite his playing at Duke and sitting next to Coach K.  I get that you are all in on Wojo and been President of the Wojo Fanboy club - but it's certainly not looking good for you bud.

And for the love of God, would you and the other Wojo fanboys please stop using silly analogies to Jay Wright and Villanova.  Jay is 8-1 against Wojo and has won 2 National Titles, made 3 Final Fours, and made the NCAA 13 out of the last 14 years.

So your argument holds true...except when it doesn't fit your narrative.  I gotcha.  Nobody here can possibly know more about basketball than you because you beat the Watersmeet Nimrods in hoops 30 years ago!  But Wojo doesn't know more than you despite playing at Duke and professionally overseas.  The logic doesn't add up big guy, even with you dunking at the Rec Center 25 years ago!

Thank God you are finally seeing the ridiculousness of your position.  Just takes talking about Jay Wright and Villinova to get you there.

By the way, high school tryouts should be this week I would think.  We should have 45 kids (freshman, JV, varsity) at every single high school in American that know more about basketball than Buzz Williams (never played high school basketball, can't possibly know more about basketball than anyone who did!).

#nerslogic

[muwarrior69]

The key to Joseph today was that he relaxed and let the game come to him.  He was awful his first couple outings because he was clearly trying too hard.  And when Markus slid to the #2 he relaxed too.  We're so much better when those guys are in their natural positions and letting it flow.

I agree. I think the whole team was trying too hard for the first 30 minutes of the game. They all knew they really laid an egg at IU and were over compensating today. Let's hope they can compose themselves for Kansas and compete.

[rocket surgeon]

I agree. I think the whole team was trying too hard for the first 30 minutes of the game. They all knew they really laid an egg at IU and were over compensating today. Let's hope they can compose themselves for Kansas and compete.

  This ^ & I think they started out playing afraid to make a mistake...playing stiff.  There couldn't have been a better opponent for us following our embarrassment at IU.  Going forward, depending on how the rest of the season goes, we may look back on these last 2 games as either the spark/wake up call we needed or just another rocket just being rocket.

[Floorslapper]

Would love some examples of these "hot takes". I guess telling people not to freak out because of getting destroyed at IU is over the top.

You literally believing you know basketball better than others because you played in high school is just so sad. You're a joke and you don't even realize it. How many different screen names have you had to sign up for on this board?

That's not a hot take - it's reality.

I take it back.  What happened to you Blue Man?  Seems like you used to get it?  How bout this Hot Take?  I didn't bother to dive deeper than your first page upon joining.   

Enjoyed listening to Juan's postgame, especially the answer to the question on leadership.  I'll be rooting for him this year as it sounds like he's persevered through some tough times. 

I also found his comments on JJJ interesting in terms of how not knowing if you are going to get consistent minutes can have a huge impact on your performance (obviously) as well as Wojo encouraging the team to shoot the ball when open without having to worry about coming out of the game.  I don't want this to devolve into a conversation about Buzz but it's hard not to see the connection.

Overall I was satisfied with how the team looked.  As most have mentioned, there will be some rough patches this year, especially with our lack of size until Luke is eligible.  All I want to see is continued progress of the guys that can be huge factors over the next couple of years (JJJ, Burton, Duane, Cohen, STJ, Luke).  I don't expect a tourney appearance but if we can improve enough throughout the season to at least be a threat to win the conference tourney in March that would qualify as a successful season, IMO.

So - A consistent role, not getting yanked for missing a shot, investing into JJJ, Burton, Duane, Luke, Steve Taylor - looked like good ideas to you for Wojo Year 1? 

I totally agreed.  Unfortunately, Wojo did none of the above, and ultimately still struggles with defining a consistent role, and yanking guys out of the game for missing a couple of good shot attemtps - as we saw with Cain today 2:30 into the game.

[Floorslapper]

So your argument holds true...except when it doesn't fit your narrative.  I gotcha.  Nobody here can possibly know more about basketball than you because you beat the Watersmeet Nimrods in hoops 30 years ago!  But Wojo doesn't know more than you despite playing at Duke and professionally overseas.  The logic doesn't add up big guy, even with you dunking at the Rec Center 25 years ago!

Thank God you are finally seeing the ridiculousness of your position.  Just takes talking about Jay Wright and Villinova to get you there.

By the way, high school tryouts should be this week I would think.  We should have 45 kids (freshman, JV, varsity) at every single high school in American that know more about basketball than Buzz Williams (never played high school basketball, can't possibly know more about basketball than anyone who did!).

#nerslogic

#wadesunhinged.  What does this post even mean?  Buzz played in High School.  Jay Wright played in college.  Both guys are much better coaches than Wojo.

I could really give a sh$t if posters here played basketball or not, but when those of you who did not act as if your takes are the Gospel (despite mountains of evidence to the contrary), it is ludicrous.

I read your posts popping off about Mike McCarthy - you certainly seem to think you know more about the game of football than McCarthy.  Sadly, McCarthy and Wojo are about the equivalent:  mediocre at best. 
 

[GGGG]

I could really give a sh$t if posters here played basketball or not, 

Then why do you keep bringing it up???

[wadesworld]

#wadesunhinged.  What does this post even mean?  Buzz played in High School.  Jay Wright played in college.  Both guys are much better coaches than Wojo.

I could really give a sh$t if posters here played basketball or not, but when those of you who did not act as if your takes are the Gospel (despite mountains of evidence to the contrary), it is ludicrous.

I read your posts popping off about Mike McCarthy - you certainly seem to think you know more about the game of football than McCarthy.  Sadly, McCarthy and Wojo are about the equivalent:  mediocre at best. 

Big Mac knows a million times more about football than I do.

I have never once referenced my athletic accomplishments as reasons that my opinions on a sport are more valid than anyone else's. That's your thing bud. Now go win another dunk contest!