R-E-L-A-X

[tower912]

Talent on da currant roster is over-raided, hey?

No.   But is it balanced?     I have thought since the end of last year that the weakness of this team would be guard depth.   I hoped (and still do) that Chartouny could come in and distribute the ball and play defense, allowing Markus to play off the ball where, IMO, he is much better.   Elliott getting hurt and Chartouny's slow adjustment has hurt my hope.     Right now, Chartouny as the third guard makes sense.    But he has to start moving the ball quicker and actually make a shot.   Because nobody can make a case right now that there is somebody better waiting on the bench, a la Derrick and Magic Dawson.      Chartouny being what we hoped he would be would make a whole lot of other tumblers fall into place.   

[MUBigDance]

There's plenty to be concerned about here:
Few if any are asking for Wojo to be fired...but we see issues with a team not ready to play and questionable choices. That's coaching.

If we get better but not a lot better then 6-6; 7-5 non-conference is not just possible but predictable.

I'm also concerned about the very beatable Big East. Our conference needs quality wins to become quality wins. don't want us to be that league where nobody deserves an invite.

Certainly there is time. so if RELAX means PATIENCE..then ok, good advice. But a fan has got to be concerned.

[Aughnanure]

The main problem with the IU loss is context.    Taken in a vacuum, a MU team badly lost an early season road game, its first of the season, in one of the toughest venues to play in, against an amped up team, a jacked up crowd, and a very good one and done freshman.   Meh.   It happens to lots of teams.
    However, because this loss reinforced existing negative opinions of Wojo, it is somehow seen as more than a November road loss.
If this is a harbinger of the season to come, yes, Wojo's tush is going to start feeling warm.      If it is simply a November road loss for a team that ends up winning 23-4 games and gets a decent seed in the tourney and wins a game there, it is a data point.   

Yup. Too easy to rush to judgement,  it hard not to be concerned. Would really like to see a year that exceeds my expectations. Just making the tournament isn't good enough this year, but anything higher than an 8-9 seed is in the range of my general expectations and hope for improvement.

Indiana might just be very very good.

[brewcity77]

People mistake patience for allegiance. This rebuild was always about this season.  If results aren't delivered patience will return to impatience.

This is exactly right. Did Indiana suck? Yes. So did Florida. So did Vanderbilt at home. So did Green Bay. So did Dayton. So did North Dakota State, Winthrop, Notre Dame in 2002, and way too often against East Carolina in the CUSA days.

Wojo has had ups and downs. Yes, Buzz players helped in 2017, but so did leading minute player Sam Hauser & leading scorer Markus Howard. Nova in 2017 was fun, but one night, no matter how great, does not a great coach make. The offense is a blast, the defense has been a disaster that was supposed to sort itself this year.

If this Indiana game is a precursor to a season on the bubble or a missed bid altogether, those of us that have been preaching patience will likely start sharpening the machetes. If Indiana is a one-off on the way to a top-3 finish in the league and comfortable NCAA seed where our inclusion is never in doubt and the defense isn't a complete season long sieve, we'll continue to hope for sustained success.

Just because we aren't all going to the mattresses yet doesn't mean we aren't all paying attention to the games, the trends, and the results. And while I don't think it will happen regardless, I think there is a very strong case that if we don't dance this season, Wojo being fired before April 1 should very much be strongly considered.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Indiana might just be very very good.

This is a point that hasn't been discussed much. Most services put the them right around the back of the top 25 preseason. Since then they have been getting some studly performances out of some true freshmen that I doubt many saw coming. They looked like a top 10-15 team to me last night. Could be we just made them look that way. Personally, I think this was a case of one team playing close to their ceiling and one team playing close to their floor.

[Silent Verbal]

This is a point that hasn't been discussed much. Most services put the them right around the back of the top 25 preseason. Since then they have been getting some studly performances out of some true freshmen that I doubt many saw coming. They looked like a top 10-15 team to me last night. Could be we just made them look that way. Personally, I think this was a case of one team playing close to their ceiling and one team playing close to their floor.

To say the IU game was close to our floor is being pretty optimistic, I think.  Howard and the Hausers led us in scoring, nobody else did stink or even looked like high major talent, there was zero ball movement on O, and the defense was awful.  Based on what we've seen in the first three games and the Wojo era in general, I'd bet Wednesday's performance was less our "floor" and more just how we can expect to look against good competition this year.

[Loose Cannon]

Alright, lets relax on giving Wojo too much credit for beating a #1 team. How many wide open three pointers did Nova miss in that game? 20?

Once in 65 years.

[Loose Cannon]

Who cares?  Should we hang a banner in the Fiserv Forum to commemorate Wojo's crowning achievement thus far?  Here's the track record:

2 Missed NITS
1 NCAA using JJJ, Luke and Duane (Buzz's guys)
1 NIT Quarterfinal
0 NCAA wins

65 years and it never happen.  I guess most of the fans that rushed the court. and maybe the players who were Dancing on the table, and some who saved their ticket they seem to care.

[Loose Cannon]

Fake News

.

What's up with the kid glove treatment some of you give this guy?  He's paid millions.  He's got every tool at his disposal to achieve.  He's accomplished virtually nothing commensurate with the investment made into him and the program.

Do you believe the MU Admin agrees with the above statement.

[theBabyDavid]

yes, if we can also judge his predecessor for the less than stellar state of the program Wojo stepped into.

The erosion of talent at the end under Buzz was NOT Buzz' fault. If Wojo inherited a steaming turd thank Scotty and Larry.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

To say the IU game was close to our floor is being pretty optimistic, I think.  Howard and the Hausers led us in scoring, nobody else did stink or even looked like high major talent, there was zero ball movement on O, and the defense was awful.  Based on what we've seen in the first three games and the Wojo era in general, I'd bet Wednesday's performance was less our "floor" and more just how we can expect to look against good competition this year.

You are entitled to your opinion. I thought the first three games (including exhibition) were very encouraging. Much improved defense and a great offense (not elite like past two years). We looked like a top 30 team should against that level of competition.

Against Indiana I saw mistakes being made on the defensive end that weren't being made in the first three games. I saw Howard reverting back to old habits after two of the best passing games of his career. I saw Sam missing shots that he usually makes in his sleep. I saw mental mistakes like Morrow not boxing out his man on a FT attempt that are easily corrected. We did not play at the same level that we did to start the season.

For me, I've seen three games that say we could be a top 20-40 type team. I've seen one game that says we aren't making the NIT. That tells me the one is probably going to be an outlier on the bell curve by the end of the season but I don't know that. Could be the first three were outliers.

Now, if this phenomenon of only playing at our ceiling against cupcakes and always playing near our floor against quality opponents continues, that is a huge problem.  History tells me that won't be the case. There have been plenty of times under Wojo where he's had our team playing at a high level against quality opponents (Nova, Seton Hall, X, Vandy, etc) and times where he's had them play like crap against crappy opponents (EIU, NIU, Omaha, Fresno State, etc). There's also been plenty of times when the opposite has been true where we've played like crap against quality opponents (Michigan, Iowa, Purdue, Butler, etc) and played at the highest level against little sisters of the poor (American, Chicago State, Western Carolina, etc). Most of the time, the team ends up playing between their floor and ceiling.

Personally, I think by the time this season is done, we will be able to plot all the individual team performances and it will form a nice bell curve. A few games we will look unbeatable. A few games we will look like a low major. Most will fall somewhere in between. If I had to guess right now, I think this Indiana game will be closer to edge of the negative side of the bell curve than it will be to the peak.

Of course if I'm wrong, I'll be sharpening my pitchfork.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

The erosion of talent at the end under Buzz was NOT Buzz' fault. If Wojo inherited a steaming turd thank Scotty and Larry.

They do share a lot of the blame. Not all of it though.

[Herman Cain]

It wuzant just a loss. MU wuz stripped down ta bare ass naked and people laughed at da sight.  Keep weighten four Wojo ta turn da corner, butt he keeps goin' streight. Kinda get da feelin' he's incapable, hey?

The emperor has no clothes.

[ATL MU Warrior]

The erosion of talent at the end under Buzz was NOT Buzz' fault. If Wojo inherited a steaming turd thank Scotty and Larry.

This is probably true to some degree.

I just find it highly amusing that some posters think Wojo should have won right away with that depleted roster.

[Jockey]

I think the two most likely losses in the non-con were Kansas and Indiana. Unfortunately Kansas is next so it's probably going to get worse before it gets better.

I think people are more upset about the way we lost rather than the loss itself. The team's weaknesses were exposed for all to see - no PG and a glaring lack of quickness.

These will haunt us against several teams this year.

[Floorslapper]

I think people are more upset about the way we lost rather than the loss itself. The team's weaknesses were exposed for all to see - no PG and a glaring lack of quickness.

These will haunt us against several teams this year.

True News.

If MU was competitive and it was a hard fought game and lost per the projection of Pomeroy:  (-4) The level of frustration we are seeing here wouldn't be nearly what exists.  There would be some disappointment, yet, the hope/optimism for a breakout season would seem a lot more likely.

We got our a$$es beat like a drum.  This is Wojo's roster.  It does appear short on high major athleticism.  It will likely result in us being similarly challenged against other athletic high major teams.

[RJax55]

True News.

If MU was competitive and it was a hard fought game and lost per the projection of Pomeroy:  (-4) The level of frustration we are seeing here wouldn't be nearly what exists.  There would be some disappointment, yet, the hope/optimism for a breakout season would seem a lot more likely.

We got our a$$es beat like a drum.  This is Wojo's roster.  It does appear short on high major athleticism.  It will likely result in us being similarly challenged against other athletic high major teams.

I watched the first 8 minutes of the game, then turned it off. It looked like too many games from the Wojo era. Call me fair-weathered, but it was pretty clear at that point that MU had no chance. When I checked later to see the final score, I was hardly surprised.

[Lennys Tap]

Fake News

Kevin O'Neill and Tom Crean walked into MUCH more difficult situations than Wojo.  Both vastly have exceeded what Wojo has done in 4 years.

And Al McGuire walked into as difficult a situation as KO and one much more difficult than Wojo.

[pbiflyer]

Aaron Rodgers career has largely been wasted due to his coaching and his team's defense

Dan Marino 2.0

[tower912]

Marino never got a ring. 

[bilsu]

And Al McGuire walked into as difficult a situation as KO and one much more difficult than Wojo.

Al came in after MU won only 5 games the year before. I doubt Al had much pressure on him.

[skianth16]

I thought the first three games (including exhibition) were very encouraging. Much improved defense and a great offense (not elite like past two years). We looked like a top 30 team should against that level of competition.

For me, I've seen three games that say we could be a top 20-40 type team.

We looked OK in our first 3 with the exhibition included. I wouldn't call any of the games dominant necessarily, though, regardless of the final scores. Defensive effort was better, but guys were still getting beat off the dribble, and we were still giving up open looks in the second half too often.

In these kinds of games, top 20 teams often win by 40 or more. They get the shots they want, have a few Sports Center type dunks or breakaways, and completely control the pace of the game. I think we had flashes of this, but not 40 minutes worth.

Hopefully we'll see a more complete outing tomorrow.

[ATL MU Warrior]

We looked OK in our first 3 with the exhibition included. I wouldn't call any of the games dominant necessarily, though, regardless of the final scores. Defensive effort was better, but guys were still getting beat off the dribble, and we were still giving up open looks in the second half too often.

In these kinds of games, top 20 teams often win by 40 or more. They get the shots they want, have a few Sports Center type dunks or breakaways, and completely control the pace of the game. I think we had flashes of this, but not 40 minutes worth.

Hopefully we'll see a more complete outing tomorrow.

You have impossibly high standards for what you expect this team to be. Guys getting beat off the dribble??  Holy crap, the best defenders in the world get beat off the dribble constantly.  Giving up open looks in the 2nd half up 20 points?  Yeah, that never happens with good teams. 

I think with those standards you are always going to be disappointed.

[skianth16]

You have impossibly high standards for what you expect this team to be. Guys getting beat off the dribble??  Holy crap, the best defenders in the world get beat off the dribble constantly.  Giving up open looks in the 2nd half up 20 points?  Yeah, that never happens with good teams. 

I think with those standards you are always going to be disappointed.

I think you missed the words "too often" in my post.

[ATL MU Warrior]

I think you missed the words "too often" in my post.

I didn't. Teams up 20-30 points are going to give up open looks. The outcomes of the games were never in doubt. You are complaining for the sake of complaining.