Job offers

[GooooMarquette]

I choose my words carefully.  You may call it opportunity, I may call it possible extortion.  The relationship with the current supervisor is critical, I believe I alluded to that.

Taking risk is understandable, as is extortion.  Let Mr. "young and newly into a career" decide the motivation.   Playing the game, can you top this, is usually frought with risk.  I'm just saying that one should have their eyes wide open.  Just a little guidance, experience being offered, which is what was requested.

On the subject of extortion, there is so much of it  nowadays that it is hardly recognisable. It has become business or politics as usual.  I'm retired so greatfully I don't have to deal with it.

Webster's definition of "extort": to obtain from a person by force, intimidation, or undue or illegal power. As long as it doesn't involve something like a tire iron or compromising photos of the CEO, taking a good offer to one's supervisor or HR department would almost never qualify as extortion.

Bigger picture, I agree with the concept of loyalty and not messing with happy - I have passed up more lucrative offers to stay at a job I love, and I'd do it again. But I don't necessarily view those who accept better offers as morally bankrupt or criminally inclined.

[#UnleashSean]

Just an update to fill in some information I left out.

I provide services in the Healthcare field at clients homes, my current company is out of Chicago and only office/clinics are in Illinois. Unfortunately that means any communication I have with my supervisor would be over the phone/email as I may go weeks without seeing them.

I've been at the company since I graduated in January so roughly 10 months time. Originally I was just testing out the field to see if I like it, but am now going to school for my masters so I can move upwards in the field. The new company has been very open about providing services to help me out with this, so that will be a big talking point with my current company. The only thing I really feel bad about is that I was on workman's compensation for 2 months and just came back this week

[vogue65]

Webster's definition of "extort": to obtain from a person by force, intimidation, or undue or illegal power. As long as it doesn't involve something like a tire iron or compromising photos of the CEO, taking a good offer to one's supervisor or HR department would almost never qualify as extortion.

Bigger picture, I agree with the concept of loyalty and not messing with happy - I have passed up more lucrative offers to stay at a job I love, and I'd do it again. But I don't necessarily view those who accept better offers as morally bankrupt or criminally inclined.

Good morning,

Yes, I sometimes tend to use hyperbole.  Don't spend much time on etymology or symantics.
I understand that extortion has emotionally charged meaning and there is always the "legal" precise definition.  Included in the Webster definition is intimidation, perhaps a better word in this  context.

We are living in interesting times.

My organization hired a specialist, as some would say, special skill set.  We received 4,000 applications for one job.  The computer reviewed the applications and came up with a few highly qualified people.  Based on a phone interview we hired Mr. Number One.  He relocated from California and has worked out beyond expectations.  For an old fart like me that is extrodinary modern HR.

Last week I learned that Ryan Air, large European discount airline,  charges applicants for applying.  Not unlike college application fees.  What will they think of next?

[GGGG]

Good morning,

Yes, I sometimes tend to use hyperbole.  Don't spend much time on etymology or symantics.
I understand that extortion has emotionally charged meaning and there is always the "legal" precise definition.  Included in the Webster definition is intimidation, perhaps a better word in this  context.

We are living in interesting times.

My organization hired a specialist, as some would say, special skill set.  We received 4,000 applications for one job.  The computer reviewed the applications and came up with a few highly qualified people.  Based on a phone interview we hired Mr. Number One.  He relocated from California and has worked out beyond expectations.  For an old fart like me that is extrodinary modern HR.

Last week I learned that Ryan Air, large European discount airline,  charges applicants for applying.  Not unlike college application fees.  What will they think of next?

Ironically most colleges don't charge application fees any longer.

[vogue65]

Ironically most colleges don't charge application fees any longer.

Thanks to MUScoop I get to stay up to date.  Does Marquette charge an application fee? 

[GGGG]

Thanks to MUScoop I get to stay up to date.  Does Marquette charge an application fee? 

I don't believe so.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Thanks to MUScoop I get to stay up to date.  Does Marquette charge an application fee?

My kid is applying this month via the Common App.  I don't believe there is a fee.

[vogue65]

My kid is applying this month via the Common App.  I don't believe there is a fee.

Oh boy, hope this does not start another controversy leading to a lock out.

[Archies Bat]

My kid is applying this month via the Common App.  I don't believe there is a fee.

Agree. My kid applied about two weeks ago and did not have a fee to apply to MU.

[Archies Bat]

Ironically most colleges don't charge application fees any longer.

My kid is currently applying to multiple colleges.  MU was the only free one so far.  Georgetown and UVA have application fees that I paid.  He has another 6 or so to go.  Based upon what he has said, it appears the schools higher in ranking have an application fee.  I assume that is to keep students who likely won't get in from tossing in a free application and taking up admissions staff time.

[vogue65]

My kid is currently applying to multiple colleges.  MU was the only free one so far.  Georgetown and UVA have application fees that I paid.  He has another 6 or so to go.  Based upon what he has said, it appears the schools higher in ranking have an application fee.  I assume that is to keep students who likely won't get in from tossing in a free application and taking up admissions staff time.

There was a time when the admissions office would operate on the fee money.  It was a cost center.  Higher in ranking  schools might be making a few dollars on the fees.  Then we have the acceptance percentage game to play.  Nothing is easy.

[jsglow]

No fee.

[#UnleashSean]

Another update, just got off the phone with the new company. I asked them if I could let them know on Wednesday and they said that was perfectly fine. Currently silent on the other front however.

[jsglow]

Another update, just got off the phone with the new company. I asked them if I could let them know on Wednesday and they said that was perfectly fine. Currently silent on the other front however.

Silent like you haven't talked with your boss yet?

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

My kid is currently applying to multiple colleges.  MU was the only free one so far.  Georgetown and UVA have application fees that I paid.  He has another 6 or so to go.  Based upon what he has said, it appears the schools higher in ranking have an application fee.  I assume that is to keep students who likely won't get in from tossing in a free application and taking up admissions staff time.

Ditto here.
For her Nov. 1 deadlines U of Maryland had a fee.  U of Tampa did not.
Looks like Xavier does not have a fee either.

[#UnleashSean]

Silent like you haven't talked with your boss yet?

Put in a call and email, haven't received a response yet. It's possible the office is closed due to veterans day

[jsglow]

Put in a call and email, haven't received a response yet. It's possible the office is closed due to veterans day

Makes sense.

[vogue65]

I'm a little naive, and not to be disrespectful, but what does this little story say about your company and it's leadership?  I wonder if you might have a few more gyms among those 400.

[Babybluejeans]

Put in a call and email, haven't received a response yet. It's possible the office is closed due to veterans day

My two cents: I'd really push to have that conversation over the phone if you can't have it in person (and if you're within a 3-hour drive or so, have it in person). Email is a tough medium to properly communicate the "I really want to be here" angle, and it disables a relaxed two-way conversation. So I'd call your supervisor first thing in the morning tomorrow if you think he or she is not online today. These conversations are uncomfortable, no doubt, but they're necessary and people are more understanding than you think.

[#UnleashSean]

Update: we have scheduled a phone meeting for tomorrow, won't be able to take the 2 hour drive to chi town unfortunately.

I'm a little naive, and not to be disrespectful, but what does this little story say about your company and it's leadership?  I wonder if you might have a few more gyms among those 400.

Sorry I'm not sure what you mean.

[vogue65]

Sorry I'm not sure what you mean.
[/quote]

On 10 November Archies Batt said he employs 400 people and told a little story about a similar situation.  His employee decided to leave and his company matched the offer on the table from another employer and even promoted the employee. 

Unfortunatly I'm not sophisticated enough to be able and "link" various preceding comments and should have been clearer.  Thanks. 

[Benny B]

My kid is currently applying to multiple colleges.  MU was the only free one so far.  Georgetown and UVA have application fees that I paid.  He has another 6 or so to go.  Based upon what he has said, it appears the schools higher in ranking have an application fee.  I assume that is to keep students who likely won't get in from tossing in a free application and taking up admissions staff time.

Actually, schools like Northeastern who have been gaming the rankings for over a decade eliminated their admission fee a long time ago in order to take in more applications, i.e. send out more denial letters, to drive down their acceptance rate (low acceptance = higher scores in the rankings).

In short: don't equate college quality to application fee.

[theBabyDavid]

Seeking advice from the wise old scoopers 

Yesterday I went into an interview with another company in my field who had contacted me, they offered me a nice salary and benefits package I don't receive at my current job. Today they sent me a job offer. I like the package they put together and the position advancement. However I would like to see if my current company, which I like quite a bit, would be willing to match this. I've never actually done this before so I had a few questions. Would I contact HR about this, and how should I phrase the questions. Also how long of a wait should I give the other company before it is considered rude or sketchy.

thanks scoopers

A core lesson learned at HBS: Never, ever leverage an offer from another firm against your current employer. If you are inclined to go, which is the case since you took the outside interview, then go (but do so gracefully.)

I think some of this might be related to role, however.

I worked in Strat Planning and did M&A at both PepsiCo and GE. In such roles one has access to significant corporate intel. At PepsiCo, if you work in planning, you are escorted out of the building. There is no two weeks' notice. Security packs your things up and has them sent to your residence.

Trying to leverage an outside offer against your current employer will never end well. It might get you a raise today but your long-term prospects will be curtailed dramatically.

[forgetful]

A core lesson learned at HBS: Never, ever leverage an offer from another firm against your current employer. If you are inclined to go, which is the case since you took the outside interview, then go (but do so gracefully.)

I think some of this might be related to role, however.

I worked in Strat Planning and did M&A at both PepsiCo and GE. In such roles one has access to significant corporate intel. At PepsiCo, if you work in planning, you are escorted out of the building. There is no two weeks' notice. Security packs your things up and has them sent to your residence.

Trying to leverage an outside offer against your current employer will never end well. It might get you a raise today but your long-term prospects will be curtailed dramatically.

Which is why as an employee you shouldn't bother to give two-weeks notice.  They will not return the favor.  When you want to leave, leave. 

And disagree on using leverage for a raise.  The only way to get what you are worth is to leave for somewhere else, or leverage an offer for an internal raise.

The key is always be willing to leave, because the answer may be, don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.   

I know of a colleague who leverages for a raise every year.  The average raise for his peers is around inflation, his is double digits, because he is irreplaceable, and other people want him.

You also left out that many at HBS advise to never spend more than 2-3 years in any one position, that you must ask for a significant promotion or leave for a promotion to advance your career.

[GGGG]

I think at certain levels of upper management, keefe is spot on.  I think for others, leveraging offers to position yourself within your current employer works just fine.