MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: #UnleashSean on November 09, 2018, 03:55:57 PM
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Seeking advice from the wise old scoopers ::)
Yesterday I went into an interview with another company in my field who had contacted me, they offered me a nice salary and benefits package I don't receive at my current job. Today they sent me a job offer. I like the package they put together and the position advancement. However I would like to see if my current company, which I like quite a bit, would be willing to match this. I've never actually done this before so I had a few questions. Would I contact HR about this, and how should I phrase the questions. Also how long of a wait should I give the other company before it is considered rude or sketchy.
thanks scoopers
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not to worry...bob's here
in all seriousness-how long have you been at your company? have you had decent employee reviews? i'd say, if you throw this at your company and they don't get back to you within 24-48 hours, start emptying your desk
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The link below should have some insight. Granted that person actually accepted the job before the counter. I don’t have much experience there but found this thread interesting.
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=56646.0
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Seeking advice from the wise old scoopers ::)
Yesterday I went into an interview with another company in my field who had contacted me, they offered me a nice salary and benefits package I don't receive at my current job. Today they sent me a job offer. I like the package they put together and the position advancement. However I would like to see if my current company, which I like quite a bit, would be willing to match this. I've never actually done this before so I had a few questions. Would I contact HR about this, and how should I phrase the questions. Also how long of a wait should I give the other company before it is considered rude or sketchy.
thanks scoopers
Go to your supervisor. Tell him/her that you have another offer that you are very interested in but you very much enjoy working where you are now, and see what their response is. I think you could hold the new company off until the end of business on Monday.
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I agree with what Sultan said, I’d go to your direct report with that news. Be prepared though to leave your current company if it comes to that.
Few years ago I had a recruiter contact me out of nowhere, I wasn’t looking, loved my current job, was compensated decently. I figured I had nothing to lose, the recruiter was recruiting for a very large company. Ended up getting an offer 35% better pay, and went to my boss with it. I had a great relationship with my boss, and he understood I’d end up taking the other offer, as he couldn’t match it. If you have a good relationship with your boss, it’ll make it much easier to have that awkward conversation.
At the end of the day, you look out for you.
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I agree with what Sultan said, I’d go to your direct report with that news. Be prepared though to leave your current company if it comes to that.
Few years ago I had a recruiter contact me out of nowhere, I wasn’t looking, loved my current job, was compensated decently. I figured I had nothing to lose, the recruiter was recruiting for a very large company. Ended up getting an offer 35% better pay, and went to my boss with it. I had a great relationship with my boss, and he understood I’d end up taking the other offer, as he couldn’t match it. If you have a good relationship with your boss, it’ll make it much easier to have that awkward conversation.
At the end of the day, you look out for you.
This is what happened to me, I was recruited without actively looking. I will definitely be leaving the company if it comes down to it.
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This is what happened to me, I was recruited without actively looking. I will definitely be leaving the company if it comes down to it.
From what it sounds like, you’re in a good spot. It’s always nice to feel wanted in the corporate world, and if you can improve your career, make better coin, and feel like you’ll be happy with it, you’ve set yourself up. As an example, my old boss called me about 6 months ago with an offer to work for him at a new company. I passed as the timing wasn’t right, but long story short, if you do leave, and on good terms, you’ll always have that networking group of people at your current job, and you never know how/when they might pop up.
Good luck, hope it works out whichever way you go.
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Go to your supervisor. Tell him/her that you have another offer that you are very interested in but you very much enjoy working where you are now, and see what their response is. I think you could hold the new company off until the end of business on Monday.
It's never this simple.
PM me.
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Too bad there is no middle man like a union or a manager as in the NBA.
The stories about a benevolent supervisor are great.
My "advice" and experience is, don't mess with happy. If you are unhappy take the offer, case closed. While extortion has become a current American way of doing business, its not mine.
Good luck, follow your better nature, be happy, in the long run life is not about money.
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We had a similar thread 2-3 weeks ago.
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It's not "extortion." It's doing what is best for your career. I agree with the notion that being happy where you are is a good thing. But if you are young and newly into a career, leaving for better opportunities oftentimes means taking chances.
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It's not "extortion." It's doing what is best for your career. I agree with the notion that being happy where you are is a good thing. But if you are young and newly into a career, leaving for better opportunities oftentimes means taking chances.
I choose my words carefully. You may call it opportunity, I may call it possible extortion. The relationship with the current supervisor is critical, I believe I alluded to that.
Taking risk is understandable, as is extortion. Let Mr. "young and newly into a career" decide the motivation. Playing the game, can you top this, is usually frought with risk. I'm just saying that one should have their eyes wide open. Just a little guidance, experience being offered, which is what was requested.
On the subject of extortion, there is so much of it nowadays that it is hardly recognisable. It has become business or politics as usual. I'm retired so greatfully I don't have to deal with it.
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I choose my words carefully. You may call it opportunity, I may call it possible extortion. The relationship with the current supervisor is critical, I believe I alluded to that.
Taking risk is understandable, as is extortion. Let Mr. "young and newly into a career" decide the motivation. Playing the game, can you top this, is usually frought with risk. I'm just saying that one should have their eyes wide open. Just a little guidance, experience being offered, which is what was requested.
On the subject of extortion, there is so much of it nowadays that it is hardly recognisable. It has become business or politics as usual. I'm retired so greatfully I don't have to deal with it.
Got that pension, so never had to rely on extortion in your 30s to be able to retire by 70, aina?
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Got that pension, so never had to rely on extortion in your 30s to be able to retire by 70, aina?
Close, 67, now 75, hay aina, "down by Schusters where the trolly turns the corner round".
Seriously, took risk and won some and lost some. One size does not fit all. At any rate, we learn from our mistakes and our successes. In the paper today I earned a good one from Gen. Mathis, "you can only fall on your sword once".
In my day most of us did not network like today. I think protecting the network is an important factor today.
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Surprised to see some of these responses suggesting not doing anything. It’s frankly naive, and ignores how the modern professional world functions.
Sultan is right. Go to your supervisor and begin by staying how much you love the company, the job, working under his or her’s mentorship, etc. Then let that person know about the offer and is the company willing to match, because you’d love to stay. Any reasonable supervisor will understand this and will not be the least bit offended—if anything, probably glad they will have the chance to keep you.
If you get a nasty reaction (highly unlikely) then that says more about the supervisor/company and should confirm that moving on is the right choice.
Congrats on the offer and best of luck.
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Surprised to see some of these responses suggesting not doing anything. It’s frankly naive, and ignores how the modern professional world functions.
Sultan is right. Go to your supervisor and begin by staying how much you love the company, the job, working under his or her’s mentorship, etc. Then let that person know about the offer and is the company willing to match, because you’d love to stay. Any reasonable supervisor will understand this and will not be the least bit offended—if anything, probably glad they will have the chance to keep you.
If you get a nasty reaction (highly unlikely) then that says more about the supervisor/company and should confirm that moving on is the right choice.
Congrats on the offer and best of luck.
Suprised to see so much faith placed in the supervisor. Let's talk about dependency, forget about extortion.
So we are saying that the decision criteria should be left up to the corporation and the supervisor? What are you guys talking about? Let's get the decision criteria right. Let's take charge of our lives one way or the other.
It's 2158 here in Italy, game time.
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Suprised to see so much faith placed in the supervisor. Let's talk about dependency, forget about extortion.
So we are saying that the decision criteria should be left up to the corporation and the supervisor? What are you guys talking about? Let's get the decision criteria right. Let's take charge of our lives one way or the other.
It's 2158 here in Italy, game time.
I think you may be missing the point. If an employee receives a job offer from a new company for an increase in pay and doesn't necessarily want to leave his current employer. it is perfectly fine to bring the offer to his supervisor. The supervisor can then decide if the employee is worth keeping at the higher price and take appropriate action.
My partners and I employ about 400 people, and in the current job market we get about 25 of those situations every year. I don't like it, but it is a fact of life in the current job market. As I said in another similar thread, we rarely match, but when we have a critical need for a certain skill we will match, as that is what the market demands for that skill set. We appreciate it when an employee brings the offer up with the supervisor so we have the option to decide.
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Seeking advice from the wise old scoopers ::)
Yesterday I went into an interview with another company in my field who had contacted me, they offered me a nice salary and benefits package I don't receive at my current job. Today they sent me a job offer. I like the package they put together and the position advancement. However I would like to see if my current company, which I like quite a bit, would be willing to match this. I've never actually done this before so I had a few questions. Would I contact HR about this, and how should I phrase the questions. Also how long of a wait should I give the other company before it is considered rude or sketchy.
thanks scoopers
Two important considerations of the new offer are a) it provides you position advancement which explains the compensation and benefits package and b) since it is in your industry you should have a good understanding of where the company ranks competitively and it's reputation for treating employees. Moving from a healthy situation should only be done after thoughtful consideration is given to what the new employer is actually offering.
When we are confronted with these situations, for the people we want to retain, we usually try to match the offers and at a minimum provide a pathway for their career advancement. If we can't match, we wish them well and let them know the door is always open to return if they change their mind down the road .
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I think you may be missing the point. If an employee receives a job offer from a new company for an increase in pay and doesn't necessarily want to leave his current employer. it is perfectly fine to bring the offer to his supervisor. The supervisor can then decide if the employee is worth keeping at the higher price and take appropriate action.
My partners and I employ about 400 people, and in the current job market we get about 25 of those situations every year. I don't like it, but it is a fact of life in the current job market. As I said in another similar thread, we rarely match, but when we have a critical need for a certain skill we will match, as that is what the market demands for that skill set. We appreciate it when an employee brings the offer up with the supervisor so we have the option to decide.
You are correct, I'm missing the point. The new world is much more the per diem model, I'm a relic. 6% of 400, seems to me to be a lot of negotiating.
There are costs and benefits to the new corporate culture.
In today's world the individual corporate culture has submitted to the larger global/national business culture. In other words you can't control the musical chairs, especially in America.
The younger generations have found a way around the old pyramid by just moving as much as possible. Movement is the goal, got it. With decision making based on skill sets and market demands there is little value in developing workers. Each man and business for themselves and may the best man/gal win.
We have gone from product life cycles, to company life cycles, to industry life cycles. So if the industry itself won't be around in a few years, what difference does loyalty make, one way or the other?
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Sultan has it right. You sit down man to man with your supervisor tomorrow (don't mean to assume it's not a she, same rules apply) and discuss the situation like adults. My only caveat to that is if you've been there some unbelievably short time (say 4-5 months), it might be a little early to 'leave the company hanging' but it still wouldn't be unprofessional. It would just likely burn a bridge. Don't be offended if he can't match. If he says he will try, give him a little time to make some calls to see if possible. You're certainly 'good' in responding to the offer Tuesday or Wednesday if no deadline has been given.
Good luck. And if you leave, shake your bosses hand and thank him for what's he's done for you. It's a small world.
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You are correct, I'm missing the point. The new world is much more the per diem model, I'm a relic. 6% of 400, seems to me to be a lot of negotiating.
There are costs and benefits to the new corporate culture.
In today's world the individual corporate culture has submitted to the larger global/national business culture. In other words you can't control the musical chairs, especially in America.
The younger generations have found a way around the old pyramid by just moving as much as possible. Movement is the goal, got it. With decision making based on skill sets and market demands there is little value in developing workers. Each man and business for themselves and may the best man/gal win.
We have gone from product life cycles, to company life cycles, to industry life cycles. So if the industry itself won't be around in a few years, what difference does loyalty make, one way or the other?
The corporate culture was created by corporate elites. Salaries have been frozen when looking at inflation adjusted values, because the biggest expense for companies is labor. So they freeze those costs to increase profits and their stock price.
The consequence of that is to the management, a person is simply labor, nothing more, a replaceable commodity no different than a machine. The result is the only way you get a serious raise is to get an offer somewhere else.
If you want to decry the situation, do not look at the worker (labor), look at management. They created this market/scenario.
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I would (and have) match offers for critical skills that it would be difficult to replace. Latest example is a really exceptional meteorologist who was doing his job so well and so quietly that we had no idea he was dissatisfied until he came and told us he was taking a job in Oklahoma.
The thing that frosts me the most is when good candidates waste my time interviewing with us when they only plan to use an offer to leverage a better deal with their current employer. I’m also old enough that I am very suspicious of resumes where an employee has moved every two years or less. I’m not interested in folks who are regularly changing jobs to ladder climb. It costs too much to hire and train someone who isn’t going to be around in 3 years. Yet I understand that this is somewhat the “millennial culture,” and it can be hard to find any younger folks who’ve stayed at their job 5 years.
Unleash, in this case you were recruited by another firm so not much to worry about that. If you can leverage it into more income and better benefits, from either your current or potentially future employer, go for it. You still gotta look out for #1.
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I would (and have) match offers for critical skills that it would be difficult to replace. Latest example is a really exceptional meteorologist who was doing his job so well and so quietly that we had no idea he was dissatisfied until he came and told us he was taking a job in Oklahoma.
He must have been REALLY dissatisfied.
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He must have been REALLY dissatisfied.
Maybe he was really into tornadoes.
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He must have been REALLY dissatisfied.
I think the idea was to move closer to his wife's family. He was probably REALLY relieved when we promoted him and matched.
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I choose my words carefully. You may call it opportunity, I may call it possible extortion. The relationship with the current supervisor is critical, I believe I alluded to that.
Taking risk is understandable, as is extortion. Let Mr. "young and newly into a career" decide the motivation. Playing the game, can you top this, is usually frought with risk. I'm just saying that one should have their eyes wide open. Just a little guidance, experience being offered, which is what was requested.
On the subject of extortion, there is so much of it nowadays that it is hardly recognisable. It has become business or politics as usual. I'm retired so greatfully I don't have to deal with it.
Webster's definition of "extort": to obtain from a person by force, intimidation, or undue or illegal power. As long as it doesn't involve something like a tire iron or compromising photos of the CEO, taking a good offer to one's supervisor or HR department would almost never qualify as extortion.
Bigger picture, I agree with the concept of loyalty and not messing with happy - I have passed up more lucrative offers to stay at a job I love, and I'd do it again. But I don't necessarily view those who accept better offers as morally bankrupt or criminally inclined.
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Just an update to fill in some information I left out.
I provide services in the Healthcare field at clients homes, my current company is out of Chicago and only office/clinics are in Illinois. Unfortunately that means any communication I have with my supervisor would be over the phone/email as I may go weeks without seeing them.
I've been at the company since I graduated in January so roughly 10 months time. Originally I was just testing out the field to see if I like it, but am now going to school for my masters so I can move upwards in the field. The new company has been very open about providing services to help me out with this, so that will be a big talking point with my current company. The only thing I really feel bad about is that I was on workman's compensation for 2 months and just came back this week
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Webster's definition of "extort": to obtain from a person by force, intimidation, or undue or illegal power. As long as it doesn't involve something like a tire iron or compromising photos of the CEO, taking a good offer to one's supervisor or HR department would almost never qualify as extortion.
Bigger picture, I agree with the concept of loyalty and not messing with happy - I have passed up more lucrative offers to stay at a job I love, and I'd do it again. But I don't necessarily view those who accept better offers as morally bankrupt or criminally inclined.
Good morning,
Yes, I sometimes tend to use hyperbole. Don't spend much time on etymology or symantics.
I understand that extortion has emotionally charged meaning and there is always the "legal" precise definition. Included in the Webster definition is intimidation, perhaps a better word in this context.
We are living in interesting times.
My organization hired a specialist, as some would say, special skill set. We received 4,000 applications for one job. The computer reviewed the applications and came up with a few highly qualified people. Based on a phone interview we hired Mr. Number One. He relocated from California and has worked out beyond expectations. For an old fart like me that is extrodinary modern HR.
Last week I learned that Ryan Air, large European discount airline, charges applicants for applying. Not unlike college application fees. What will they think of next?
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Good morning,
Yes, I sometimes tend to use hyperbole. Don't spend much time on etymology or symantics.
I understand that extortion has emotionally charged meaning and there is always the "legal" precise definition. Included in the Webster definition is intimidation, perhaps a better word in this context.
We are living in interesting times.
My organization hired a specialist, as some would say, special skill set. We received 4,000 applications for one job. The computer reviewed the applications and came up with a few highly qualified people. Based on a phone interview we hired Mr. Number One. He relocated from California and has worked out beyond expectations. For an old fart like me that is extrodinary modern HR.
Last week I learned that Ryan Air, large European discount airline, charges applicants for applying. Not unlike college application fees. What will they think of next?
Ironically most colleges don't charge application fees any longer.
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Ironically most colleges don't charge application fees any longer.
Thanks to MUScoop I get to stay up to date. Does Marquette charge an application fee?
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Thanks to MUScoop I get to stay up to date. Does Marquette charge an application fee?
I don't believe so.
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Thanks to MUScoop I get to stay up to date. Does Marquette charge an application fee?
My kid is applying this month via the Common App. I don't believe there is a fee.
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My kid is applying this month via the Common App. I don't believe there is a fee.
Oh boy, hope this does not start another controversy leading to a lock out.
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My kid is applying this month via the Common App. I don't believe there is a fee.
Agree. My kid applied about two weeks ago and did not have a fee to apply to MU.
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Ironically most colleges don't charge application fees any longer.
My kid is currently applying to multiple colleges. MU was the only free one so far. Georgetown and UVA have application fees that I paid. He has another 6 or so to go. Based upon what he has said, it appears the schools higher in ranking have an application fee. I assume that is to keep students who likely won't get in from tossing in a free application and taking up admissions staff time.
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My kid is currently applying to multiple colleges. MU was the only free one so far. Georgetown and UVA have application fees that I paid. He has another 6 or so to go. Based upon what he has said, it appears the schools higher in ranking have an application fee. I assume that is to keep students who likely won't get in from tossing in a free application and taking up admissions staff time.
There was a time when the admissions office would operate on the fee money. It was a cost center. Higher in ranking schools might be making a few dollars on the fees. Then we have the acceptance percentage game to play. Nothing is easy.
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No fee.
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Another update, just got off the phone with the new company. I asked them if I could let them know on Wednesday and they said that was perfectly fine. Currently silent on the other front however.
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Another update, just got off the phone with the new company. I asked them if I could let them know on Wednesday and they said that was perfectly fine. Currently silent on the other front however.
Silent like you haven't talked with your boss yet?
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My kid is currently applying to multiple colleges. MU was the only free one so far. Georgetown and UVA have application fees that I paid. He has another 6 or so to go. Based upon what he has said, it appears the schools higher in ranking have an application fee. I assume that is to keep students who likely won't get in from tossing in a free application and taking up admissions staff time.
Ditto here.
For her Nov. 1 deadlines U of Maryland had a fee. U of Tampa did not.
Looks like Xavier does not have a fee either.
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Silent like you haven't talked with your boss yet?
Put in a call and email, haven't received a response yet. It's possible the office is closed due to veterans day
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Put in a call and email, haven't received a response yet. It's possible the office is closed due to veterans day
Makes sense.
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I'm a little naive, and not to be disrespectful, but what does this little story say about your company and it's leadership? I wonder if you might have a few more gyms among those 400.
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Put in a call and email, haven't received a response yet. It's possible the office is closed due to veterans day
My two cents: I'd really push to have that conversation over the phone if you can't have it in person (and if you're within a 3-hour drive or so, have it in person). Email is a tough medium to properly communicate the "I really want to be here" angle, and it disables a relaxed two-way conversation. So I'd call your supervisor first thing in the morning tomorrow if you think he or she is not online today. These conversations are uncomfortable, no doubt, but they're necessary and people are more understanding than you think.
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Update: we have scheduled a phone meeting for tomorrow, won't be able to take the 2 hour drive to chi town unfortunately.
I'm a little naive, and not to be disrespectful, but what does this little story say about your company and it's leadership? I wonder if you might have a few more gyms among those 400.
Sorry I'm not sure what you mean.
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Sorry I'm not sure what you mean.
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On 10 November Archies Batt said he employs 400 people and told a little story about a similar situation. His employee decided to leave and his company matched the offer on the table from another employer and even promoted the employee.
Unfortunatly I'm not sophisticated enough to be able and "link" various preceding comments and should have been clearer. Thanks.
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My kid is currently applying to multiple colleges. MU was the only free one so far. Georgetown and UVA have application fees that I paid. He has another 6 or so to go. Based upon what he has said, it appears the schools higher in ranking have an application fee. I assume that is to keep students who likely won't get in from tossing in a free application and taking up admissions staff time.
Actually, schools like Northeastern who have been gaming the rankings for over a decade eliminated their admission fee a long time ago in order to take in more applications, i.e. send out more denial letters, to drive down their acceptance rate (low acceptance = higher scores in the rankings).
In short: don't equate college quality to application fee.
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Seeking advice from the wise old scoopers ::)
Yesterday I went into an interview with another company in my field who had contacted me, they offered me a nice salary and benefits package I don't receive at my current job. Today they sent me a job offer. I like the package they put together and the position advancement. However I would like to see if my current company, which I like quite a bit, would be willing to match this. I've never actually done this before so I had a few questions. Would I contact HR about this, and how should I phrase the questions. Also how long of a wait should I give the other company before it is considered rude or sketchy.
thanks scoopers
A core lesson learned at HBS: Never, ever leverage an offer from another firm against your current employer. If you are inclined to go, which is the case since you took the outside interview, then go (but do so gracefully.)
I think some of this might be related to role, however.
I worked in Strat Planning and did M&A at both PepsiCo and GE. In such roles one has access to significant corporate intel. At PepsiCo, if you work in planning, you are escorted out of the building. There is no two weeks' notice. Security packs your things up and has them sent to your residence.
Trying to leverage an outside offer against your current employer will never end well. It might get you a raise today but your long-term prospects will be curtailed dramatically.
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A core lesson learned at HBS: Never, ever leverage an offer from another firm against your current employer. If you are inclined to go, which is the case since you took the outside interview, then go (but do so gracefully.)
I think some of this might be related to role, however.
I worked in Strat Planning and did M&A at both PepsiCo and GE. In such roles one has access to significant corporate intel. At PepsiCo, if you work in planning, you are escorted out of the building. There is no two weeks' notice. Security packs your things up and has them sent to your residence.
Trying to leverage an outside offer against your current employer will never end well. It might get you a raise today but your long-term prospects will be curtailed dramatically.
Which is why as an employee you shouldn't bother to give two-weeks notice. They will not return the favor. When you want to leave, leave.
And disagree on using leverage for a raise. The only way to get what you are worth is to leave for somewhere else, or leverage an offer for an internal raise.
The key is always be willing to leave, because the answer may be, don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.
I know of a colleague who leverages for a raise every year. The average raise for his peers is around inflation, his is double digits, because he is irreplaceable, and other people want him.
You also left out that many at HBS advise to never spend more than 2-3 years in any one position, that you must ask for a significant promotion or leave for a promotion to advance your career.
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I think at certain levels of upper management, keefe is spot on. I think for others, leveraging offers to position yourself within your current employer works just fine.
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Which is why as an employee you shouldn't bother to give two-weeks notice. They will not return the favor. When you want to leave, leave.
And disagree on using leverage for a raise. The only way to get what you are worth is to leave for somewhere else, or leverage an offer for an internal raise.
The key is always be willing to leave, because the answer may be, don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.
I know of a colleague who leverages for a raise every year. The average raise for his peers is around inflation, his is double digits, because he is irreplaceable, and other people want him.
There are many variables that go into the advisability of trying to leverage an outside offer into an internal raise/promotion. Market environment, industry, role, culture, cost of churn, etc...
As a rule, if you are involved in M&A work you need to go in and inform your boss that you are leaving. Trying to get a better deal is considered poor form.
I was in Strat Planning with PepsiCo when I was head hunted away by GE. Though based in Hong Kong I had to go to CT for the final interviews. I left Fairfield with an offer.
I went back to Asia through Plano where I told the head of Planning I was leaving. Her first question was, "what are they giving you?" She told me it was a good offer and that I was at least a year away from that at PepsiCo. She then asked if I had packed up my office in HK. And that was it.
We kept in touch over the years, she ended up as the CIO of PepsiCo then went to be the CFO of Yale University. She has remained a friend and mentor to this day.
The point is: if you work in a strategic role at an enterprise they won't counter an outside offer. Be professional and don't burn bridges. The head of planning respected the work I did at PepsiCo but thought my decision to take on the role GE offered was a good one for me and my family. She also knew that the PepsiCo recruiting machine was hauling in top MBAs for precisely this circumstance so there was minimal cost impact to the organization.
Perhaps, in a smaller company or if one has unusually unique skills, it is possible to play the match this game. But larger companies know that talent acquisition is a cost of doing business. We are doing infrastructure work in Alaska and Canada for off-grid systems. In a mining camp in Canada a geologist played this game and was given a raise. But out of earshot the MD of the mining enetrprise was already plotting a revenge move.
One can try to get raises/promotions in this way but, as you say, be prepared to leave because that might be the answer you get.
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Maybe I’m naive, but I think the company would appreciate the heads up. At least now they are in a position to influence your decision if they want to keep you. If you came to them with your two week notice, it’s possible they’d be upset that they didn’t get a chance to make their case.
The key would be that you aren’t doing this consistently, and it’s just a bluff to get more money. I think then it may negatively impact you. It sounds like you’re willing to go, but enjoy your current employer enough that they could still win you back.
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There are many variables that go into the advisability of trying to leverage an outside offer into an internal raise/promotion. Market environment, industry, role, culture, cost of churn, etc...
As a rule, if you are involved in M&A work you need to go in and inform your boss that you are leaving. Trying to get a better deal is considered poor form.
I was in Strat Planning with PepsiCo when I was head hunted away by GE. Though based in Hong Kong I had to go to CT for the final interviews. I left Fairfield with an offer.
I went back to Asia through Plano where I told the head of Planning I was leaving. Her first question was, "what are they giving you?" She told me it was a good offer and that I was at least a year away from that at PepsiCo. She then asked if I had packed up my office in HK. And that was it.
We kept in touch over the years, she ended up as the CIO of PepsiCo then went to be the CFO of Yale University. She has remained a friend and mentor to this day.
The point is: if you work in a strategic role at an enterprise they won't counter an outside offer. Be professional and don't burn bridges. The head of planning respected the work I did at PepsiCo but thought my decision to take on the role GE offered was a good one for me and my family. She also knew that the PepsiCo recruiting machine was hauling in top MBAs for precisely this circumstance so there was minimal cost impact to the organization.
Perhaps, in a smaller company or if one has unusually unique skills, it is possible to play the match this game. But larger companies know that talent acquisition is a cost of doing business. We are doing infrastructure work in Alaska and Canada for off-grid systems. In a mining camp in Canada a geologist played this game and was given a raise. But out of earshot the MD of the mining enetrprise was already plotting a revenge move.
One can try to get raises/promotions in this way but, as you say, be prepared to leave because that might be the answer you get.
I agree with you on a lot of this. I don't think the chances are usually likely that you will get a raise / promotion from your old firm, but it doesn't hurt to ask if phrased the right way. And yes, you should always be prepared to leave. And I do think this is more common at a smaller firm where the talent acquisition might be more expensive and difficult.
And yeah, you should always give notice. At least two weeks. If the company wants to shorten it, but still pay you, let them do that.
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I was thinking about my former boss at PepsiCo and reflecting on what an outstanding leader she is.
One of my colleagues, Jim, was based with the Plano Planning Team. In his annual review, PepsiCo always asks for input on next role, he wondered about getting to the Denver area so his wife could be closer to her family.
She told him that putting an Ivy MBA at a bottling plant or salty snack facility was a waste of talent; there was simply nothing in that area commensurate with his skills. In fact the bench planning had him heading to either London or Purchase, NY.
But what she did next was remarkable. She picked up the phone and called a classmate from Cornell who was the CFO of Coors. She personally vouched for Jim and offered to pay his relo from TX to CO. Within a month he was headed to Denver to work for Coors.
That is inspired leadership.
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A core lesson learned at HBS: Never, ever leverage an offer from another firm against your current employer. If you are inclined to go, which is the case since you took the outside interview, then go (but do so gracefully.)
I think some of this might be related to role, however.
I worked in Strat Planning and did M&A at both PepsiCo and GE. In such roles one has access to significant corporate intel. At PepsiCo, if you work in planning, you are escorted out of the building. There is no two weeks' notice. Security packs your things up and has them sent to your residence.
Trying to leverage an outside offer against your current employer will never end well. It might get you a raise today but your long-term prospects will be curtailed dramatically.
I agree with pretty much all of this. I've sat in meetings where people who leveraged an offer was moved out of the "High Potential" pile with no change to job performance. The company gave them more money to fill a short term need, but was already making plans to move on.
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I agree with you on a lot of this. I don't think the chances are usually likely that you will get a raise / promotion from your old firm, but it doesn't hurt to ask if phrased the right way. And yes, you should always be prepared to leave. And I do think this is more common at a smaller firm where the talent acquisition might be more expensive and difficult.
And yeah, you should always give notice. At least two weeks. If the company wants to shorten it, but still pay you, let them do that.
I have a buddy from my F 16 days who got an MBA from UVA and worked for Georgia-Pacific where he was moving fast.
He is black, an Air Force Academy grad fighter pilot with an MBA from Darden so he was bombarded with calls from Spencer Stuart, Korn Ferry, et al...
He rarely investigated offers but was recruited by Staples at the time of the proposed merger with Office Depot. It was a great role but he went back to Georgia-Pacific for a counter.
They did counter but his career decelerated noticeably. He ended up leaving for Whirlpool 4 years later. When he told G-P he was leaving they made his departure immediate.
Is his experience indicative? I'm not sure but it is a definite risk with getting a counter. He went from HiPo to also ran pretty quickly.
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I have a buddy from my F 16 days who got an MBA from UVA and worked for Georgia-Pacific where he was moving fast.
He is black, an Air Force Academy grad fighter pilot with an MBA from Darden so he was bombarded with calls from Spencer Stuart, Korn Ferry, et al...
He rarely investigated offers but was recruited by Staples at the time of the proposed merger with Office Depot. It was a great role but he went back to Georgia-Pacific for a counter.
They did counter but his career decelerated noticeably. He ended up leaving for Whirlpool 4 years later. When he told G-P he was leaving they made his departure immediate.
Is his experience indicative? I'm not sure but it is a definite risk with getting a counter. He went from HiPo to also ran pretty quickly.
I find this very disingenuous on the part of the company. Why counter at all if you are going to stall a person's career? All parties are better served to just move on.
Companies have setup a Catch 22 scenario for workers. To get ahead, the worker needs to be ready to job hop but not too much. Negotiating raises beyond cost of living basically require an outside offer. But that leads to a showdown: worker must be prepared leave, even if they like where they work, or they could be countered with the possibility of petty revenge and a lack of career advancement if they stay.
My advice: talk with your current employer about career advancement and growth in addition to salary and benefits. If there is no chance to advance due to this negotiation, move on.
Another popular move is to leave for a new job and reapply at old company in a few years. Make sure to climb the career ladder with each move.
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I have a buddy from my F 16 days who got an MBA from UVA and worked for Georgia-Pacific where he was moving fast.
He is black, an Air Force Academy grad fighter pilot with an MBA from Darden so he was bombarded with calls from Spencer Stuart, Korn Ferry, et al...
He rarely investigated offers but was recruited by Staples at the time of the proposed merger with Office Depot. It was a great role but he went back to Georgia-Pacific for a counter.
They did counter but his career decelerated noticeably. He ended up leaving for Whirlpool 4 years later. When he told G-P he was leaving they made his departure immediate.
Is his experience indicative? I'm not sure but it is a definite risk with getting a counter. He went from HiPo to also ran pretty quickly.
Purely anecdotal, can easily come up with counter arguments of the opposite.
Fact of the matter is that any properly run company wants to promote the best candidates for any open position. Restricting advancement of a qualified candidate because of reporting a offer from a competitor for a possible counter, runs contrary to the fundamental goals of an organization. If that is how a company is run, you should bolt as soon as possible.
If you are important to the company, they'll fight to keep you, if you are just another Joe, they will let you go. More often than not, the reason people quit climbing in a company (or are passed over for a promotion) is simply a function of them not meeting the qualifications for the promotion, and/or declining performance. In the latter, it is often because people become content and quit giving the extra mile to win an advancement.
In that instance it is in the best interest of the employee to look for advancement elsewhere, and the company will be happy to let you go.
Also, there is an advantage of poaching a competitor to replace a current employee. It gives the new company access to any and all knowledge you have. That makes it easier in many cases for a competitor to offer a more enticing offer.
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How much dew u guYz make? $$$$
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How much dew u guYz make? $$$$
Let me answer for everyone: Not enough
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Let me answer for everyone: Not enough
Agreed, I should make way more than that Keefe guy, and I don't. (Is teal needed?)
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Agreed, I should make way more than that Keefe guy, and I don't. (Is teal needed?)
Let me give you one piece of advice: If you want to make real money you need to be in the technical vanguard of one of two industries - Healthcare and Energy.
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Let me give you one piece of advice: If you want to make real money you need to be in the technical vanguard of one of two industries - Healthcare and Energy.
I am more than satisfied with my fake money.
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I am more than satisfied with my fake money.
I have yet to meet the man who feels he is overpaid
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I have yet to meet the man who feels he is overpaid
Oh, I wouldn't mind more. I just don't need any of Keefe's real money.
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Let me give you one piece of advice: If you want to make real money you need to be in the technical vanguard of one of two industries - Healthcare and Energy.
I remember each time I visited my family in Quogue, the folks I conferenced with at parties liked to talk about where the "real money" was. What a strange phrase. I've found its use carries with it comical whiffs of Gatsby-level insecurity from the declarant.
Though, owning GE stock has been one way to relieve oneself of that conversation.
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Let me answer for everyone: Not enough
Not true. I am totally fine with what I make.
Money is important for survival and, to a point, the ability to be happy. But beyond that point, studies have actually shown decreases in measures of happiness and well-being. The "point" varies depending on where people live, but numbers in the range of $75,000/year are commonly cited by economists and mental health experts.
Here's a recent study out of Purdue and UVa:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-017-0277-0
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Anywon macon any reel scratch ain't fookin' da dey awey on a board like dis, aina?
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I find this very disingenuous on the part of the company. Why counter at all if you are going to stall a person's career? All parties are better served to just move on.
I see it both ways. Ive advocated strongly here against blind loyalty and needing to have a willingness to look out for one's self interest and family. But at the same time, as a company, when you plan long term, provided you don't have a never ending supply of talent, you tend to favor those you can count on and build long term plans around. Its worth it in the short term to keep the employee at a modest raise compared to the cost and time needed to find and train a replacement. But its almost human nature to trend towards a peer who hasn't shown that leveraging move against you. Right or wrong. Don't be afraid to move for the $$, but then don't be offended when you're treated as a financial line item as opposed to a unique skill set. But, YMMV.
I remember each time I visited my family in Quogue, the folks I conferenced with at parties liked to talk about where the "real money" was. What a strange phrase. I've found its use carries with it comical whiffs of Gatsby-level insecurity from the declarant.
Though, owning GE stock has been one way to relieve oneself of that conversation.
It can also be used when evaluating size of prize for a company or venture. Is the company going to compete in a crowded market place for a small piece or find much greater opportunity and potential profit in areas where Keefe referenced. When looking at cyclical trends and areas with constant need for technological growth, he's not wrong. And clearly you've never been around those flashy types who lease a luxury car, dress in designer labels, but take out loans to go on vacation or can't afford downpayments. There is no security to deeming that fake money versus the "real money" that can afford those things without reckless spending or potential duress. But sweet GE burn ::)
Not true. I am totally fine with what I make.
Money is important for survival and, to a point, the ability to be happy. But beyond that point, studies have actually shown decreases in measures of happiness and well-being. The "point" varies depending on where people live, but numbers in the range of $75,000/year are commonly cited by economists and mental health experts.
Ive always found that figure and studies to be deceiving cause its often blending many different international geographies and social strata. Also not factoring in children, health, etc.. I think Ive seen addendums that say the total can be $20-30K higher when looking at further life planning and goals. I can totally buy the idea that there is a decreasing marginal benefit as more money is made, and even buy that it can decrease sharply, but $75K is so often flaunted in a way of "you're making more than that, so your complaints are superficial". I can say that living in multiple metro areas of the Midwest, my quality of life/happiness markedly improved based that delineation point. And thats as a bachelor.
Everyone has different physical and tangible wants and needs, to try and bucket them or shame them for not aligning with your own world view is problematic and a waste of time in my opinion.
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Anyone on Scoop with over 1,000 posts is clearly being overpaid.
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Ive always found that figure and studies to be deceiving cause its often blending many different international geographies and social strata. Also not factoring in children, health, etc.. I think Ive seen addendums that say the total can be $20-30K higher when looking at further life planning and goals. I can totally buy the idea that there is a decreasing marginal benefit as more money is made, and even buy that it can decrease sharply, but $75K is so often flaunted in a way of "you're making more than that, so your complaints are superficial". I can say that living in multiple metro areas of the Midwest, my quality of life/happiness markedly improved based that delineation point. And thats as a bachelor.
Everyone has different physical and tangible wants and needs, to try and bucket them or shame them for not aligning with your own world view is problematic and a waste of time in my opinion.
Yes, the number itself is subject to many variables that no study can totally control. But authors are typically very direct about that. The consistent finding remains: beyond a point, more money doesn’t equal more happiness or a greater sense of well-being.
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It can also be used when evaluating size of prize for a company or venture. Is the company going to compete in a crowded market place for a small piece or find much greater opportunity and potential profit in areas where Keefe referenced. When looking at cyclical trends and areas with constant need for technological growth, he's not wrong.
This is a lot of words. Most investors just call it upside.
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This is a lot of words. Most investors just call it upside.
Ok, so if he said "thats where the real upside is", you'd have had no issue. I was a trader for a number of years, I heard "thats where the real money is" as it pertained to trades or investments all the time. Not just by greedy aristocrats twirling their mustaches and mocking the hired help.
Yes, the number itself is subject to many variables that no study can totally control. But authors are typically very direct about that. The consistent finding remains: beyond a point, more money doesn’t equal more happiness or a greater sense of well-being.
Right, and as I said, I totally agree. Putting a number on it always seems silly cause it feels like often its used to marginalize or vilify greed when "science says this is all you need for happiness!" Especially when its a relatively average number that is very commonly earned and exceeded. But im sure thats a lot of personal experience biasing me.
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I remember each time I visited my family in Quogue, the folks I conferenced with at parties liked to talk about where the "real money" was. What a strange phrase. I've found its use carries with it comical whiffs of Gatsby-level insecurity from the declarant.
Though, owning GE stock has been one way to relieve oneself of that conversation.
GE is getting beat up by the street but it is still a technical powerhouse. I know Flannery and have met Culp. And both have endorsed the projects we are partnered with GE on to change the face of clean, renewable energy. We are doing line stabilization in China, micro grids in the developing world, on-board hydrogen generation for a new series of lean burn recip engines, solar in SE Asia and the Middle East, and launching high temperature zero emission waste to energy systems that are putting an end to landfilling.
Here's the bottom line: our capital partners on these projects include the Carlyle Group, the Silk Road Fund, Man Group, HMI, and Landsdowne. These are sophisticated hedge fund operators who have placed large bets on these projects and GE's ability to pull them off through exquisite technology.
I am guessing these hedge fund managers know more about what GE is doing than a guy who spends way too much time shouting into the dark night of an insignificant outpost of the web's fringe? Perhaps the malodorous stench of Gatsby-level insecurity suggests you need to slap on some Old Spice?
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GE currently at $8 + and the "gurus" say "hold"...i bought in a little bit at $12, but still think GE is too big to fail. are they unloading some of their dead weight and catching up to their legacy bennies enough yet to turn this ship around to jack's liking yet? by the time this thing rates buy, it'll be too late for us "unwashed" enna so?
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GE is getting beat up by the street but it is still a technical powerhouse. I know Flannery and have met Culp. And both have endorsed the projects we are partnered with GE on to change the face of clean, renewable energy. We are doing line stabilization in China, micro grids in the developing world, on-board hydrogen generation for a new series of lean burn recip engines, solar in SE Asia and the Middle East, and launching high temperature zero emission waste to energy systems that are putting an end to landfilling.
Here's the bottom line: our capital partners on these projects include the Carlyle Group, the Silk Road Fund, Man Group, HMI, and Landsdowne. These are sophisticated hedge fund operators who have placed large bets on these projects and GE's ability to pull them off through exquisite technology.
I am guessing these hedge fund managers know more about what GE is doing than a guy who spends way too much time shouting into the dark night of an insignificant outpost of the web's fringe? Perhaps the malodorous stench of Gatsby-level insecurity suggests you need to slap on some Old Spice?
Great promo for GE stock, I owne way too much, I also owne PEP, nice to see MU represented in those great companies.
The blessed hedge fund guys drive down the price, buy more stock, drive up the price and make a killing. One does not need a big name MBA to understand the game.
The public is not only politically gullible, they are especially economically gullible as well.
I flew back from MXP Wednesday and enjoyed my flight with those big a$$ GE turbines humming along.
Being off line, jet lag etc., I just re-read this string, very interesting perspective. We got off course regarding the original question from a young person starting out. Nevertheless, for those paying attention, some very good points were made about playing the corporate game in later career situations.
My first job was with 3M, then Union Carbide, then small business, followed by government service. One of my lessons learned was that once you leave the corporate track there is no going back. I am a big fan of experience, no regrets.
I have always taken the high road, when unhappy, get another job, period. The big boys don't play games, it's hardball, but professional. From my experiences, it's not only those in strategic planning who are asked to pack their bags immediately when leaving.
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GE is getting beat up by the street but it is still a technical powerhouse. I know Flannery and have met Culp. And both have endorsed the projects we are partnered with GE on to change the face of clean, renewable energy. We are doing line stabilization in China, micro grids in the developing world, on-board hydrogen generation for a new series of lean burn recip engines, solar in SE Asia and the Middle East, and launching high temperature zero emission waste to energy systems that are putting an end to landfilling.
Here's the bottom line: our capital partners on these projects include the Carlyle Group, the Silk Road Fund, Man Group, HMI, and Landsdowne. These are sophisticated hedge fund operators who have placed large bets on these projects and GE's ability to pull them off through exquisite technology.
I am guessing these hedge fund managers know more about what GE is doing than a guy who spends way too much time shouting into the dark night of an insignificant outpost of the web's fringe? Perhaps the malodorous stench of Gatsby-level insecurity suggests you need to slap on some Old Spice?
This reminds me why, despite their mewling, we never let G’town Prep kids into our parties in high school—all try-hard, no chill.
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This reminds me why, despite their mewling, we never let G’town Prep kids into our parties in high school—all try-hard, no chill.
Zactly, especially PJ & Squi
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GE is getting beat up by the street but it is still a technical powerhouse. I know Flannery and have met Culp. And both have endorsed the projects we are partnered with GE on to change the face of clean, renewable energy. We are doing line stabilization in China, micro grids in the developing world, on-board hydrogen generation for a new series of lean burn recip engines, solar in SE Asia and the Middle East, and launching high temperature zero emission waste to energy systems that are putting an end to landfilling.
Here's the bottom line: our capital partners on these projects include the Carlyle Group, the Silk Road Fund, Man Group, HMI, and Landsdowne. These are sophisticated hedge fund operators who have placed large bets on these projects and GE's ability to pull them off through exquisite technology.
I am guessing these hedge fund managers know more about what GE is doing than a guy who spends way too much time shouting into the dark night of an insignificant outpost of the web's fringe? Perhaps the malodorous stench of Gatsby-level insecurity suggests you need to slap on some Old Spice?
GE isn’t getting slammed by the street because it doesn’t know what it’s doing. GE is getting slammed because it doesn’t know what it’s liabilities are (i.e. long term care).
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GE isn’t getting slammed by the street because it doesn’t know what it’s doing. GE is getting slammed because it doesn’t know what it’s liabilities are (i.e. long term care).
If that were the case then every legacy corporation in America would be getting "slammed". PRB's (Post Retirement Benefits) and pensions are always important, but PRB's are not protected by ERISA, therefore, they can be off loaded at any time.
This will probably be the next move by corporate America. We have had the virtual elimination of defined benefit plans, low wages that result in workers unable to contribute adequately to 401(k) plans, and the creations of various health care schemes.
At GE in particular, the issue is the insurance sector, the get rich quick lunacy of Mr. Welch, the former fair haired boy of the street.
U.S. Steel was way ahead of G.E. in deindustrializing America. When they went into "finance", leasing, and became USX it was over for American manufacturing.
One by one workers benefits have been taken and like the frog in the boiling water, the workers, media, and unions said nothing and went along with the plan.
Now we have the retired lives vs. the active folks, a civil war among the workers who, for the most part, have no idea about PRB's.
I'll let it go at that, no need to get ideological.
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If that were the case then every legacy corporation in America would be getting "slammed". PRB's (Post Retirement Benefits) and pensions are always important, but PRB's are not protected by ERISA, therefore, they can be off loaded at any time.
This will probably be the next move by corporate America. We have had the virtual elimination of defined benefit plans, low wages that result in workers unable to contribute adequately to 401(k) plans, and the creations of various health care schemes.
At GE in particular, the issue is the insurance sector, the get rich quick lunacy of Mr. Welch, the former fair haired boy of the street.
U.S. Steel was way ahead of G.E. in deindustrializing America. When they went into "finance", leasing, and became USX it was over for American manufacturing.
One by one workers benefits have been taken and like the frog in the boiling water, the workers, media, and unions said nothing and went along with the plan.
Now we have the retired lives vs. the active folks, a civil war among the workers who, for the most part, have no idea about PRB's.
I'll let it go at that, no need to get ideological.
smh. ::)
The long-term care liability issue that's dumbing down GE is in the contracts that were sold to consumers, not from benefits for their own employees.
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Unless I missed it, Unleash, what’s going on? Ya crowdsource advice, and leave us hangin’
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Unless I missed it, Unleash, what’s going on? Ya crowdsource advice, and leave us hangin’
Hes the new CEO of GE.
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His old firm stuffed him into a trunk and shipped him to the Amazon.
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His old firm stuffed him into a trunk and shipped him to the Amazon.
Should this be merged with the Bezos thread?
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I have a buddy from my F 16 days who got an MBA from UVA and worked for Georgia-Pacific where he was moving fast.
He is black, an Air Force Academy grad fighter pilot with an MBA from Darden so he was bombarded with calls from Spencer Stuart, Korn Ferry, et al...
He rarely investigated offers but was recruited by Staples at the time of the proposed merger with Office Depot. It was a great role but he went back to Georgia-Pacific for a counter.
They did counter but his career decelerated noticeably. He ended up leaving for Whirlpool 4 years later. When he told G-P he was leaving they made his departure immediate.
Is his experience indicative? I'm not sure but it is a definite risk with getting a counter. He went from HiPo to also ran pretty quickly.
Question, aside from being a good military guy, was your friend actually good at business? Or do you think he comfortably filled a quota?
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smh. ::)
The long-term care liability issue that's dumbing down GE is in the contracts that were sold to consumers, not from benefits for their own employees.
Thank you for the for the clarification, alzheimers..
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Update on my job, after talking with my supervisor they offered to promote me to the position offered by the new company, but without a pay raise. They said that since I had recently received a raise it would be very poor practice to give me another one. So I gave a nice chuckle and said what equals no dice and accepted the job offer from the other company within the hour.
Thanks for all the help you wise old scoopers.
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Smart move. Sho me da money, honey, hey?
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(http://sixsigmadsi.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/show-me-the-money-300x165.jpg)
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Update on my job, after talking with my supervisor they offered to promote me to the position offered by the new company, but without a pay raise. They said that since I had recently received a raise it would be very poor practice to give me another one. So I gave a nice chuckle and said what equals no dice and accepted the job offer from the other company within the hour.
Thanks for all the help you wise old scoopers.
Keep working hard and showing up on time.
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Update on my job, after talking with my supervisor they offered to promote me to the position offered by the new company, but without a pay raise. They said that since I had recently received a raise it would be very poor practice to give me another one. So I gave a nice chuckle and said what equals no dice and accepted the job offer from the other company within the hour.
Thanks for all the help you wise old scoopers.
Very smart. Zero reason to not give you more $$$ with the promotion.
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we will make you the vp of all the other vp’s 🤔 🤷🏼♂️ 🤯🤯🤯
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Update on my job, after talking with my supervisor they offered to promote me to the position offered by the new company, but without a pay raise. They said that since I had recently received a raise it would be very poor practice to give me another one. So I gave a nice chuckle and said what equals no dice and accepted the job offer from the other company within the hour.
Thanks for all the help you wise old scoopers.
Congratulations. I was in the camp that thought you should do precisely what you did. But I sure hope you didn’t actually chuckle and say no dice. Make sure when you leave any job, you do so humbly and with gratitude to the company. Even a job you dislike. You just can’t overestimate how important those relationships wind up being down the line.
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Congratulations. I was in the camp that thought you should do precisely what you did. But I sure hope you didn’t actually chuckle and say no dice. Make sure when you leave any job, you do so humbly and with gratitude to the company. Even a job you dislike. You just can’t overestimate how important those relationships wind up being down the line.
I did let out a little chuckle. I also meant to say that I said something that would boil down to "no dice" Not actually saying no dice
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Shake the hand of your old boss as you leave. Good luck in your new assignment and congratulations.
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I quit my last two jobs to accept positions that were step ups in role and pay. Neither time did I attempt to go back to the current supervisor and renegotiate; however, both times I felt a bit bad due to the timing. One was shortly after we signed a big new project and were bringing on new staff. And the most recent happened barely a month after my supervisor came back from maternity leave.
I typed out my notice, spoke respectfully and volunteered as much about the new roles as I wanted to. Both of them took it fantastically. One actually knew my future boss from a previous role and gave me advice and the maternity leave situation took me to dinner as a congrats and checks in from time to time despite me leaving that industry entirely.
TL/DR, leaving respectfully and professionally is always appreciated and usually means a good response
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GE isn’t getting slammed by the street because it doesn’t know what it’s doing. GE is getting slammed because it doesn’t know what it’s liabilities are (i.e. long term care).
Benny,
You are somewhat correct. GE has a problem with unsecured liabilities. You misstated the issue - GE knows what its liabilities are. It has yet to define a strategy for dealing with them. But the real issue at GE is withy strategy.
Under Immelt (who was a master politician) GE's strategy for addressing the unbuckling of Cap (which drove earnings) was Mergers, Acquisitions, and Divestitures (MAD). The problem with that is, without a clear unambiguous linkage with customer equity, it merely muddies the water without actually giving the Street an articulated vision for the future.
Immelt's last years were characterized by stupid M&A (Alstom, Baker Hughes, etc...) and divestiture of core businesses (Healthcare, in particular.) MAD is a mechanism for executing a strategy; under Immelt, then Flannery, MAD proxied as the strategy.
I work very closely with GE Power and Renewable Energy. We are developing and launching remarkable technology that is making the generation and transmission of power cleaner, cheaper, and more accesible.
I laugh when I read how journalists predict the demise of Power. In fact, GE's strength is the pipeline of technology which will reshape the energy landscape. We play a small role in that but we are involved in several high profile projects on four continents - two should be announced shortly after the New Year.
The issue with GE isn't within GE Power or Renewable Energy. The problem is activist hedge fund managers who can't possibly comprehend the underlying technology combined with CEOs afraid to make a decision - that's you Jeff Immelt and John Flannery.
GE needs to define a clear strategy for the Street. In the meantime, the engineers doing the heavy lifting in the labs are doing great work.
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This reminds me why, despite their mewling, we never let G’town Prep kids into our parties in high school—all try-hard, no chill.
Yea, some people peaked in high school and even then it wasn't very impressive.
28% of Georgetown Prep students get into Ivy League schools straight away. More than 50% of grads attend Ivies for either undergrad or grad school.
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Question, aside from being a good military guy, was your friend actually good at business? Or do you think he comfortably filled a quota?
I think my buddy, call sign Night Fighter, is an exceptional talent in many ways. I do think his Achille's Heel is that he can overestimate his value and play the prima donna.
Night Fighter will be the first to tell you that he has had doors opened for him because, as an accomplished black male, he is decidedly a valuable commodity. From high school onward he has had advantages in opportunity because of his race. But I can also say that in every test - being graduated from the Academy in the upper 10%, learning to fly the F 15, earning an MBA at UVA - he more than met the test.
I think he learned from his negative experience at GP. Today, Night Fighter is the Chief Human Resource Officer for a Fortune 100 company. I have to believe he earned the keys to the Executive Latrine.
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I quit my last two jobs to accept positions that were step ups in role and pay. Neither time did I attempt to go back to the current supervisor and renegotiate; however, both times I felt a bit bad due to the timing. One was shortly after we signed a big new project and were bringing on new staff. And the most recent happened barely a month after my supervisor came back from maternity leave.
I typed out my notice, spoke respectfully and volunteered as much about the new roles as I wanted to. Both of them took it fantastically. One actually knew my future boss from a previous role and gave me advice and the maternity leave situation took me to dinner as a congrats and checks in from time to time despite me leaving that industry entirely.
TL/DR, leaving respectfully and professionally is always appreciated and usually means a good response
Wags,
Is this an update from when you last came through Seattle? Shoot me a PM. Let's catch up.
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Benny,
You are somewhat correct. GE has a problem with unsecured liabilities. You misstated the issue - GE knows what its liabilities are. It has yet to define a strategy for dealing with them. But the real issue at GE is withy strategy.
Under Immelt (who was a master politician) GE's strategy for addressing the unbuckling of Cap (which drove earnings) was Mergers, Acquisitions, and Divestitures (MAD). The problem with that is, without a clear unambiguous linkage with customer equity, it merely muddies the water without actually giving the Street an articulated vision for the future.
Immelt's last years were characterized by stupid M&A (Alstom, Baker Hughes, etc...) and divestiture of core businesses (Healthcare, in particular.) MAD is a mechanism for executing a strategy; under Immelt, then Flannery, MAD proxied as the strategy.
I work very closely with GE Power and Renewable Energy. We are developing and launching remarkable technology that is making the generation and transmission of power cleaner, cheaper, and more accesible.
I laugh when I read how journalists predict the demise of Power. In fact, GE's strength is the pipeline of technology which will reshape the energy landscape. We play a small role in that but we are involved in several high profile projects on four continents - two should be announced shortly after the New Year.
The issue with GE isn't within GE Power or Renewable Energy. The problem is activist hedge fund managers who can't possibly comprehend the underlying technology combined with CEOs afraid to make a decision - that's you Jeff Immelt and John Flannery.
GE needs to define a clear strategy for the Street. In the meantime, the engineers doing the heavy lifting in the labs are doing great work.
I'm aware GE Power has a development program in place to greatly increase the efficiency of wind turbines.
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I'm aware GE Power has a development program in place to greatly increase the efficiency of wind turbines.
They are but so too is Gamesa, Siemens, Vestas, et al... Blade efficiency is why GE acquired LM which I believe was actually an inspired move.
The compelling technologies are in inverters, interconnects, storage and innovative application engineering. Generating power more efficiently is important. It is more difficult and more impactful to address transmission and storage.
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If that were the case then every legacy corporation in America would be getting "slammed". PRB's (Post Retirement Benefits) and pensions are always important, but PRB's are not protected by ERISA, therefore, they can be off loaded at any time.
This will probably be the next move by corporate America. We have had the virtual elimination of defined benefit plans, low wages that result in workers unable to contribute adequately to 401(k) plans, and the creations of various health care schemes.
At GE in particular, the issue is the insurance sector, the get rich quick lunacy of Mr. Welch, the former fair haired boy of the street.
U.S. Steel was way ahead of G.E. in deindustrializing America. When they went into "finance", leasing, and became USX it was over for American manufacturing.
One by one workers benefits have been taken and like the frog in the boiling water, the workers, media, and unions said nothing and went along with the plan.
Now we have the retired lives vs. the active folks, a civil war among the workers who, for the most part, have no idea about PRB's.
I'll let it go at that, no need to get ideological.
Vogue
The issue isn't employee benefits; it has to do with policy liabilities. GEFA went on a spree buying up insurance policies around the world. Great move which generates huge amounts of cash until the demographics shift.
I was a lead on the Toho Seimei acquisition in '98 but our strategy in that was very different. The Japanese FSA had liberalized direct foreign investment into the domestic financial services market. We bought Toho, Japan's 4th largest insurer, not as a cash machine but for distribution for our suite of financial products.
We knew that we wouldn't hold on to the core insurance business and sold it at a premium to AIG within 5 years - a key element in our strategy. Meanwhile, we continued with our credit card, consumer finance, and unit trust businesses which were genuine cash cows without the payout risk associated with capitation=based models.