BE Coaches Rank Conference Jobs

[The Lens]

Since Barry Alvarez took over and reinvigorated Bucky, very few kids grow up in this state wanting to play for MU.  And especially MU over UW.

Sure they can be swayed but that's the first hurdle. We are not many Wisconsin HS kids default team.   

That coach is not wrong.

[jsglow]

Since Barry Alvarez took over and reinvigorated Bucky, very few kids grow up in this state wanting to play for MU.  And especially MU over UW.

Sure they can be swayed but that's the first hurdle. We are not many Wisconsin HS kids default team.   

That coach is not wrong.

Then why don't they actually go there?  It's a dumb statement and he's flat out lazily wrong in his assessment.  GB Warrior has it about right.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

The first part of his statement is pretty accurate.  The second half should have said leave the state vs going to WI. So yes he is wrong about the Badger part. 

[mileskishnish72]

Interesting that the top 3 overall are also the top three in budget and in pros.
Money talks, nobody walks.

[brewcity77]

That coach is not wrong.

Go read Sam Newberry's article on Anonymous Eagle. That coach is wrong. Incredibly wrong. Like impressive that he can be so thoroughly wrong. It would be very, very difficult for him to be more wrong if his intent was to make a statement that was explicitly, provably, evidentially unsupported wrong.

He is wrong. It's not even debatable.

[The Lens]

Sam Hauser WANTED to go to UW. He didn't bc they didn't recruit him hard enough but he started out wanting to go to UW.  That's the point.  They're the default school.  They may not get every kid or even half the kid but they start out favorable on the kid's radar, that's an advantage over us. 

If you don't think UW is the default school in this state, I don't know what to tell you. 

[jsglow]

Sam Hauser WANTED to go to UW. He didn't bc they didn't recruit him hard enough but he started out wanting to go to UW.  That's the point.  They're the default school.  They may not get every kid or even half the kid but they start out favorable on the kid's radar, that's an advantage over us. 

If you don't think UW is the default school in this state, I don't know what to tell you.

Then from the time the kid forms in the womb as a 'UW lean' to the time he actually signs his LOI Bucky must be really crap at recruiting.  Because if they want him or not, even if he's a freakin' legacy like Wes Matthews, the empirical evidence demonstrates that they almost NEVER get their man.  Like NEVER with the exception of Dekker.

[jsglow]

It's time once again for the greatest of all time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FH2XWiaosZs

[MUEng92]

I'm curious if this rule about it not mattering where you want to go to college when you are actually selecting your school applies to non athletes too.  I will have to tell my daughter to not worry about her choice in the next few months because it only matters where she wanted to go when she was in 6th grade.

[Floorslapper]

Sam Hauser WANTED to go to UW. He didn't bc they didn't recruit him hard enough but he started out wanting to go to UW.  That's the point.  They're the default school.  They may not get every kid or even half the kid but they start out favorable on the kid's radar, that's an advantage over us. 

If you don't think UW is the default school in this state, I don't know what to tell you.

Appreciate the objectivity.  Found it kind of sad that some of our fans got so twisted/offended on the comment by the Big East Assistant coach.  Then again, there are some very easily triggered among us.

[brewcity77]

Sam Hauser WANTED to go to UW. He didn't bc they didn't recruit him hard enough but he started out wanting to go to UW.  That's the point.  They're the default school.  They may not get every kid or even half the kid but they start out favorable on the kid's radar, that's an advantage over us. 

If you don't think UW is the default school in this state, I don't know what to tell you.

Look at the quote again. "Not a ton of kids in Wisconsin, and the ones that do come out of there want to go to Wisconsin and not Marquette." If all these kids wanted to go to Wisconsin, the majority of them would. In the past 11 years, UW-Madison has landed the top recruit in the state exactly once, and that was because Buzz didn't recruit Sam Dekker.

Do a ton of kids come out of Wisconsin? Maybe so, maybe not. I haven't broken down the numbers based on the number of top-100 recruits compared to state populations. But the kids that do come out of Wisconsin generally choose to either go to Marquette or go out of state. The kids that do grow up dreaming of going to Wisconsin are the ones that walk on. And yes, there are plenty of those kids, but by and large, the "ton of kids in Wisconsin" the quoted individual is referring to are the high-major kids, and those high-major kids by and large are obviously not wanting to go to Wisconsin, or they would be.

[brewcity77]

When you are talking about elite recruits, I think most of them are actually dreaming of going to neither Wisconsin nor Marquette. They are dreaming of going to Duke, Kentucky, North Carolina, or Kansas. If those options aren't there, they are dreaming of going somewhere that will showcase them for the NBA. That's why a kid like Korie Lucious went to a perennial power in Michigan State over staying in state. That's why Jamil Wilson and Jeronne Maymon committed to higher tempo offensive teams. Matt Thomas, Kevon Looney, Diamond Stone, Terrence Lewis, all opted to go out of state to schools that would showcase them with a faster tempo.

It's entirely possible Hauser could've went to UW-Madison. Same goes for Ellenson. But ultimately, Bo's system and Gard's continuation has impacted their ability to draw in top recruits. They still land quality players and have done a great job developing them, but the vast majority of kids with NBA aspirations (which is probably just about anyone in the top-150) are looking in other directions first.

[Floorslapper]

What decisions are you referring to?

Pretty simple:

Awful roster management and decision-making upon taking the job. The results speak for themselves.  4-14 Big East Year 1.  Missed NIT Year 2.  NCAA tourney 1st round exit Year 3 (with 2 of Buzz's guys playing prominent roles).  Year 4.  Missed NCAA.

When you inherit 4, Top 100 sophomores, and have the all-time worst PG at MU as a senior - you don't max his minutes, and bring in a grad transfer.  You max the F out of your talented sophomores, and invest into the future of your program.

You really think if you played Duane at the 1, Dawson at the 2, JJJ at the 3, Deonte at the 4 and Luke Fischer at the 5, all as sophomores, that team wouldn't have grown to be an NCAA caliber team in Year 2 of the regime with a few new recruits added as back ups?

Instead most of those guys got sit behind guys like Derrick Wilson, Juan Anderson, and Sandy F'in Cohen.

It was almost as bad in Year 2, trying to play Haanif Cheatham at PG, when you had a pure PG on the roster in Traci Carter.

Thankfully Wojo seems to have made some progress in his player personnel management and in-game coaching.  His yoga practice seems to be helping him manage his manic, knee-jerk coaching decisions that plagued his first couple of years.

[cheebs09]

Then from the time the kid forms in the womb as a 'UW lean' to the time he actually signs his LOI Bucky must be really crap at recruiting.  Because if they want him or not, even if he's a freakin' legacy like Wes Matthews, the empirical evidence demonstrates that they almost NEVER get their man.  Like NEVER with the exception of Dekker.

To be fair, they get their fair share. For a long time we were recruiting different styles of player and didn't overlap as much. Koenig vs Duane for instance seemed like each coach got the guy they wanted.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Look at the quote again. "Not a ton of kids in Wisconsin, and the ones that do come out of there want to go to Wisconsin and not Marquette." If all these kids wanted to go to Wisconsin, the majority of them would. In the past 11 years, UW-Madison has landed the top recruit in the state exactly once, and that was because Buzz didn't recruit Sam Dekker.

Do a ton of kids come out of Wisconsin? Maybe so, maybe not. I haven't broken down the numbers based on the number of top-100 recruits compared to state populations. But the kids that do come out of Wisconsin generally choose to either go to Marquette or go out of state. The kids that do grow up dreaming of going to Wisconsin are the ones that walk on. And yes, there are plenty of those kids, but by and large, the "ton of kids in Wisconsin" the quoted individual is referring to are the high-major kids, and those high-major kids by and large are obviously not wanting to go to Wisconsin, or they would be.

To be fair the ones that leave the state usually have UW 'on the list' in addition to the out of state choices. 

It really doesn't seem to be a comment that is that offensive. 

[Goose]

I agree completely with Lens. Like it or not, most WI kids grow wanting to play for the Badgers. MU has day be an outstanding job of recruiting against UW over the years.

[Smokin' Jae]

Since Barry Alvarez took over and reinvigorated Bucky, very few kids grow up in this state wanting to play for MU.  And especially MU over UW.

Sure they can be swayed but that's the first hurdle. We are not many Wisconsin HS kids default team.   

That coach is not wrong.

City of Milwaukee kids have zero desire to play for UW. We aren't super high on their lists either, most would dream of playing for duke or Kentucky. Now kids in the middle of nowhere in this state, that's a different story.

[wadesworld]

Pretty simple:

Awful roster management and decision-making upon taking the job. The results speak for themselves.  4-14 Big East Year 1.  Missed NIT Year 2.  NCAA tourney 1st round exit Year 3 (with 2 of Buzz's guys playing prominent roles).  Year 4.  Missed NCAA.

When you inherit 4, Top 100 sophomores, and have the all-time worst PG at MU as a senior - you don't max his minutes, and bring in a grad transfer.  You max the F out of your talented sophomores, and invest into the future of your program.

You really think if you played Duane at the 1, Dawson at the 2, JJJ at the 3, Deonte at the 4 and Luke Fischer at the 5, all as sophomores, that team wouldn't have grown to be an NCAA caliber team in Year 2 of the regime with a few new recruits added as back ups?

Instead most of those guys got sit behind guys like Derrick Wilson, Juan Anderson, and Sandy F'in Cohen.

It was almost as bad in Year 2, trying to play Haanif Cheatham at PG, when you had a pure PG on the roster in Traci Carter.

Thankfully Wojo seems to have made some progress in his player personnel management and in-game coaching.  His yoga practice seems to be helping him manage his manic, knee-jerk coaching decisions that plagued his first couple of years.

John Dawson averaged 8.5 points, 4 rebounds, 3 assists, and 3 turnovers as a 5th year senior in the Big South Conference. I don't think Wojo should've been playing him 4 years prior to that as a freshman in the BE, no.

Deonte Burton's mother passed away and he transferred to get out of Milwaukee 8 games into his time under Wojo. Wojo never had an opportunity to invest in Deonte's future.

Luke Fischer averaged 30 MPG. Maybe Wojo should've gassed him for 40?

Duane Wilson averaged 28 MPG. Maybe Wojo should've gassed him for 40?

JaJuan Johnson averaged 22 MPG and was far superior to senior Juan Anderson. Wojo invested plenty in him.

I do not think starting 5 freshman/sophomores and playing them 40 MPG would've been a good idea for a first year coach. Talk about a way to kill your kids' confidence. Going 0-16 in conference is one nice way to do that.

Traci Carter averaged 24 MPG as a freshman point guard. Wojo was plenty fair in his minutes.

Not only are you completely clueless when it comes to basketball knowledge, you also completely ignore the reality of what actually happened.

Your boy Buzz had all those same players that Wojo had that Wojo "mind effed" with by not playing them...and played the same players that Wojo did. Weird.

[brewcity77]

To be fair the ones that leave the state usually have UW 'on the list' in addition to the out of state choices. 

It really doesn't seem to be a comment that is that offensive.

They have them "on the list", but that doesn't mean they have any real interest in going to UW-Madison. Gotta keep up appearances.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

They have them "on the list", but that doesn't mean they have any real interest in going to UW-Madison. Gotta keep up appearances.

I agree - but that is also my point.  If the top recruits do this it feeds the perception....

[brewcity77]

I agree - but that is also my point.  If the top recruits do this it feeds the perception....

That's fair, but it only reinforces that these kids don't have a desire to go there, especially when you compare the actual results as the AE article did.

[GB Warrior]

The idea that kids want to go to UW only reinforces that it's a state school and the first team they'll be introduced to.

Impossible to prove that kids want to go there during their recruiting years (you gonna guess what's in a kids head?), because we sure don't see it from the results once they're educated

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

You really think if you played Duane at the 1, Dawson at the 2, JJJ at the 3, Deonte at the 4 and Luke Fischer at the 5, all as sophomores, that team wouldn't have grown to be an NCAA caliber team in Year 2 of the regime with a few new recruits added as back ups?

Yes

When you inherit 4, Top 100 sophomores....Instead most of those guys got sit behind guys like Derrick Wilson, Juan Anderson, and Sandy F'in Cohen.

This is the best part right here. Uses the fact that players were top 100 recruits as the only proof that they were great players.....and then complains about two top 100 recruits getting playing time

[WarriorDad]

MU #3 behind Georgetown and Villanova.


3. Marquette (59) – No one in the league has more resources, and just about every coach has had success – although different levels. Al McGuire led Marquette to its lone national championship way back in 1977, Kevin O'Neill took the program to the Sweet 16 in 1994, Tom Crean went to the Final Four in 2003, Buzz Williams went to an Elite Eight and a pair of Sweet 16's in his final three seasons. The only real downside is its recruiting base.

Coach Williams did not go to a tournament in his final season, so that comment is wrong, too.

[Floorslapper]

John Dawson averaged 8.5 points, 4 rebounds, 3 assists, and 3 turnovers as a 5th year senior in the Big South Conference. I don't think Wojo should've been playing him 4 years prior to that as a freshman in the BE, no.

Deonte Burton's mother passed away and he transferred to get out of Milwaukee 8 games into his time under Wojo. Wojo never had an opportunity to invest in Deonte's future.

Luke Fischer averaged 30 MPG. Maybe Wojo should've gassed him for 40?

Duane Wilson averaged 28 MPG. Maybe Wojo should've gassed him for 40?

JaJuan Johnson averaged 22 MPG and was far superior to senior Juan Anderson. Wojo invested plenty in him.

I do not think starting 5 freshman/sophomores and playing them 40 MPG would've been a good idea for a first year coach. Talk about a way to kill your kids' confidence. Going 0-16 in conference is one nice way to do that.

Traci Carter averaged 24 MPG as a freshman point guard. Wojo was plenty fair in his minutes.

Not only are you completely clueless when it comes to basketball knowledge, you also completely ignore the reality of what actually happened.

Your boy Buzz had all those same players that Wojo had that Wojo "mind effed" with by not playing them...and played the same players that Wojo did. Weird.

Buzz's track record speaks for itself.  One year while at MU was not like the other - and there's a reason for that:  He wanted out...was checked out.  He f'in pulled Deonte Burton against Xavier in Big East tourney when Deonte was tearing up Xavier for the last 6 minutes of the game, only to re-insert him with 30 seconds left. 

If you want to hold up Buzz's last year of coaching at MU as proof positive that Wojo made a sound decision in Year 1 on the job, feel free.  Sadly, Buzz has already gotten a moribound VaTech program to 2 NCAA tourneys AND a higher preseason ranking than us this year.

Wojo's track record thus far speaks for itself.  Mediocre at best.  I can appreciate you being a fanboy of Wojo's, just as I was one for Buzz.  Nothing wrong with being loyal to your team/coach.  You fell hard for Wojo and went all in - perhaps it gets rewarded this year.  To act as if the guy hasn't made any mistakes as head coach at MU thus far though, however, is silly.