MLB hot stove discussion 2018/19 off season

[Cheeks]

Union sacrificed them for some of the other concessions. 26th man on MLB rosters, no pitch clock and a commitment to negotiate.

I still don't see a path forward that avoids a lockout, though.

A friend of mine, her husband plays for the Rockies, they have been told in no uncertain terms to start saving money now....it is going to happen.  He's young and doesn't make a ton compared to many of the others, so they are taking it seriously.

[Cheeks]

Yeah players are going to have to strike I think, I'm all for it and hope they win.

For a sport that is already struggling to get a hold in certain age groups, I think it is a risky idea.  They also are not factoring in the economic realities of where video is going and the cost side there.  That is one of the reasons, in my opinion, why clubs were hesitant because they see the video revenues up in the air.

A major digital player is about to make a big splash here shortly, it will reinvigorate the sports rights temporarily and folks will say everything is great, but when they realize how much they have overspent through the contract and the dollars they will ultimately lose it could (can't predict the future) be the last big TV / video pay day for many of these leagues.  Could.  Many things in a state of flux on the revenue side which makes this all go round and round.  Clubs don't want to dole out huge contracts at lengthy terms for players when they don't know where the dollars are coming from.

[Jockey]

I was thinking about MLB and all their attempts to speed up the game. Yet they seem to have missed the most obvious - wireless technology.

Why not have earpieces provided for all players? So, instead of the catcher spending time looking at the bench for what pitch to call and then spending more time relaying the sign to pitchers, why couldn't the manager relay the sign verbally to the P and C at the same time?

Also, why waste 5-10 minutes or more a game for the manager to slowly shuffle out to the mound for a conversation just to change pitchers? Or instead of shuffling slowly out, the pitching coach could have the pitcher step back off the mound to speak to him via wireless in half the time?

[JWags85]

I was thinking about MLB and all their attempts to speed up the game. Yet they seem to have missed the most obvious - wireless technology.

Why not have earpieces provided for all players? So, instead of the catcher spending time looking at the bench for what pitch to call and then spending more time relaying the sign to pitchers, why couldn't the manager relay the sign verbally to the P and C at the same time?

Also, why waste 5-10 minutes or more a game for the manager to slowly shuffle out to the mound for a conversation just to change pitchers? Or instead of shuffling slowly out, the pitching coach could have the pitcher step back off the mound to speak to him via wireless in half the time?

Practically, those slow shuffles are to give a pitcher extra time to warm up. People will fight that idea based on that strategic maneuver alone.

Then, you have to figure the old baseball mantras of mound conferences to break up play, confuse opposition, and calm down pitchers.

It’s clever solution but I don’t see many people buying into it

[DegenerateDish]

I read that MLB is experimenting with a wireless watch for catchers to give signals to pitchers, who’d also have a wireless watch.

[Jockey]

I read that MLB is experimenting with a wireless watch for catchers to give signals to pitchers, who’d also have a wireless watch.

Cool. At least it’s a start.

[GB Warrior]

I read that MLB is experimenting with a wireless watch for catchers to give signals to pitchers, who’d also have a wireless watch.

*shakes head, taps watch*

*Catcher sends new signal*

Must see TV folks

[Cheeks]

Trout stays a Halo....$430M for 12 years.

Greatest player I have seen in person play, spoiled here for sure.  Going to suck when we move and won’t be able to watch him in person.

[MUBurrow]

Trout - 12 years, $430M.  Two takeaways for me. First, that's still a "spit out my coffee when i saw it" amount of money. Second is that Trout really is every bit the low-key guy he seems to sign this now.  I struggle to imagine, barring catastrophic injury, that he wouldn't have beat this in a free agency free for all. There are only 10 years of new money on this deal, as two of them cancel out the below market extension he signed in 2013. So really its a 10 year, $406M extension if my math is right. I think 10 years, $400M was the absolute minimum to be mentioned as a possible destination in 2020.

[MUBurrow]

Trout - 12 years, $430M.  Two takeaways for me. First, that's still a "spit out my coffee when i saw it" amount of money. Second is that Trout really is every bit the low-key guy he seems to sign this now.  I struggle to imagine, barring catastrophic injury, that he wouldn't have beat this in a free agency free for all. There are only 10 years of new money on this deal, as two of them cancel out the below market extension he signed in 2013. So really its a 10 year, $406M extension if my math is right. I think 10 years, $400M was the absolute minimum to be mentioned as a possible destination in 2020.

Takeaway #3 - THIS IS WHY YOU DO NOT MANIPULATE SERVICE TIME. If Trout was pissed at the Angels, there's no way he allows them to overwrite the remaining years on his below market deal as part of an extension. Instead, structuring the deal this way allowed the Angels to leverage their two years of control into stretching their AAV across 12 years while also reducing the new money.

[Cheeks]

Trout - 12 years, $430M.  Two takeaways for me. First, that's still a "spit out my coffee when i saw it" amount of money. Second is that Trout really is every bit the low-key guy he seems to sign this now.  I struggle to imagine, barring catastrophic injury, that he wouldn't have beat this in a free agency free for all. There are only 10 years of new money on this deal, as two of them cancel out the below market extension he signed in 2013. So really its a 10 year, $406M extension if my math is right. I think 10 years, $400M was the absolute minimum to be mentioned as a possible destination in 2020.

He is not a guy seeking the limelight, that is for sure.  We just did a small deal with for MLB Extra Innings using his photo image only, he is extremely reserved.  He may open up more later in his career, but mostly a private person, definitely loves Orange County and with the money he makes he can be in the best part of the OC and what it offers which is pretty incredible for those with the means...which few have.  A bubble, for sure.

Hopefully they can put some other players around him, certainly him staying will lead to others potentially saying they want to come, too.

And yes, I think he would have made more, and certainly cleared more because of the tax structure here.

[Cheeks]

Takeaway #3 - THIS IS WHY YOU DO NOT MANIPULATE SERVICE TIME. If Trout was pissed at the Angels, there's no way he allows them to overwrite the remaining years on his below market deal as part of an extension. Instead, structuring the deal this way allowed the Angels to leverage their two years of control into stretching their AAV across 12 years while also reducing the new money.

Yes, to a degree.  Definitely why the Halos did it at first a few years ago when they didn’t have to.  They were trying to gain good will and in that instance made sense as he is a sure fire hall of famer.

But I also understand clubs using the rules.  Some of the guys that are currently playing under their initial contracts with club control are really good, but still could go sideways with their play.  We have this tendancy to say when players are “screwed” they should get theirs, but when it goes the other way and a player stinks we rarely are saying players should give money back.  Ends up being a one way street.

[Cheeks]

Angels CF Mike Trout is "finalizing the largest contract in professional sports history," a 12-year deal worth more than $430M that will "smash previous records," according to sources cited by Jeff Passan of ESPN.com. Trout will receive an average of nearly $36M a year, topping D-backs P Zack Greinke's previous record average of $34.4M. The Angels' "bustling farm system" and the ability for Owner Arte Moreno to parlay a $3B local TV deal into "higher payrolls gave Trout enough security to lock himself into a deal through his age-38 season" (ESPN.com, 3/19). In L.A., Torres & Digiovanna note Trout's deal, which has "no opt-outs," would keep him in Anaheim through '30. It would net Trout more money than Phillies RF Bryce Harper, who earlier in March signed a 13-year, $330M contract -- a deal that was then the "most lucrative in baseball history" (LATIMES.com, 3/19). The contract "does include a full no-trade clause" (DAILYNEWS.com, 3/19). Keeping Trout will cost Moreno "more than twice as much as the $184 million he paid for the entire franchise in 2003" (WASHINGTONPOST.com, 3/19).

WORTH THIS KIND OF MONEY? ESPN's Max Kellerman believes Trout deserves the record contract, saying, “We may be watching the greatest player in the history of baseball.” ESPN's Stephen A. Smith: "I challenge you to find anyone that says he's not worth it. He's that great" ("First Take," ESPN, 3/19).NBCSPORTS.com's Craig Calcaterra writes it is "hard to argue" that Trout is "not worth it." Calcaterra: "If Mickey Mantle or Willie Mays was around today, what would they make? That’s who Mike Trout is" (NBCSPORTS.com, 3/19). USA TODAY's Ted Berg writes the Angels actually are getting a "massive bargain," as it keep Trout with the team "for the remainder of a career that might well wind up among the greatest of all time" (USATODAY.com, 3/19). MLB Network's Dan Plesac: "If there’s an athlete that’s deserves this kind of compensation .... THIS IS THE GUY" (TWITTER.com, 3/19). However, ESPN’s Jon Weiner said, "That’s a lot of money to spend for a guy who's never won a playoff series and a guy that you wouldn't know if he was sitting on your lap in the studio right now." The Miami Herald’s Greg Cote said Trout "could win the Triple Crown and be overpaid." Cote: "The contract is so ridiculous. There's literally nothing he can do to live up to that contract" (“The Dan Le Batard Show,” ESPN Radio, 3/19).

TWITTER REAX: MLB.com's Mike Petriello wrote, "The thing about Mike Trout is that he's incredible and that he's getting NEARLY HALF A BILLION DOLLARS is actually very deserved and cool." NBC SPORTS' Paul Pabst: "This is so Mike Trout. No build up. No drama. No tour. Sign a lifetime deal at 10am on a Tuesday." ESPN's Buster Olney: "The Angels are Millville West for Mike Trout. He knows the folks there, he knows they appreciate and care about him, and he's never been one to look for a better, bigger deal elsewhere." ESPN's Alden Gonzalez: "Trout truly likes playing for the Angels. He had no interest in all the hoopla that would have come with playing close to home on the Phillies." Philadelphia-based WIP-FM's Eliot Shorr-Parks: "This Mike Trout contract really highlights what a steal Bryce Harper’s contract was for Phillies." NBC Sports Washington's Grant Paulsen: "Trout's a better player with a better resume than Bryce Harper, so he deserves more money. But if he does sign for 12/430 ... it will make Bryce Harper's contract and offseason look way worse."

[jesmu84]

So much for the California tax thing having influence

[Cheeks]

So much for the California tax thing having influence

So much for reading comprehension....it will effect some, not all. 

[tower912]

Michael Fulmer likely needs Tommy John surgery.

[MU82]

Now he'll have plenty of money to get his son or daughter onto the USC water polo team!

[jesmu84]

So much for reading comprehension....it will effect some, not all.

Oh, I comprehended. I just like making inane comments about one-off situations

[CTWarrior]

NBC Sports Washington's Grant Paulsen: "Trout's a better player with a better resume than Bryce Harper, so he deserves more money. But if he does sign for 12/430 ... it will make Bryce Harper's contract and offseason look way worse."

I don't think it does.  I don't think Harper is particularly close to Trout as a player.

Trout - 27 yrs old, 8 seasons, 4673 PA, 64.3 WAR
Harper - 26 yrs old, 7 seasons, 3957 PA, 27.4 WAR

Plus Harper, despite being a year younger, is seeing his defense fade faster.  I think if one of those contracts is fair, the other one is too.

As a Red Sox fan, I think this means Betts (26 yrs old, 5 seasons, 2923 PA, 35.2 WAR) definitely goes free agent, because the Red Sox will now have to offer more than Harper got to sign him ahead of free agency.   

[MU82]

Trout's contract is roughly 10 times what Carl Pohlad paid to buy the Twinkies in 1984!

[Jockey]

I don't think it does.  I don't think Harper is particularly close to Trout as a player.

Trout - 27 yrs old, 8 seasons, 4673 PA, 64.3 WAR
Harper - 26 yrs old, 7 seasons, 3957 PA, 27.4 WAR

Plus Harper, despite being a year younger, is seeing his defense fade faster.  I think if one of those contracts is fair, the other one is too.

As a Red Sox fan, I think this means Betts (26 yrs old, 5 seasons, 2923 PA, 35.2 WAR) definitely goes free agent, because the Red Sox will now have to offer more than Harper got to sign him ahead of free agency.

Trout - 7 full seasons   63.8 WAR
Mantle - 7 full seasons 60.1 WAR - Would probably be ahead of Trout without the knee injury.

First time I saw Trout play, one name came to mind. Easy to see why. Trout will be in the running for GOAT. Right now, it is Ruth and everyone else. Without tearing up his knee as a 19 year old, (remember, surgical procedures were nowhere near where they are now) it would be Ruth/Mantle and everyone else. That's the kind of company Trout is in.

[Cheeks]

Trout - 7 full seasons   63.8 WAR
Mantle - 7 full seasons 60.1 WAR - Would probably be ahead of Trout without the knee injury.

First time I saw Trout play, one name came to mind. Easy to see why. Trout will be in the running for GOAT. Right now, it is Ruth and everyone else. Without tearing up his knee as a 19 year old, (remember, surgical procedures were nowhere near where they are now) it would be Ruth/Mantle and everyone else. That's the kind of company Trout is in.

Good point on Mantle injury.  I would also say guys just take care of themselves better today due to the knowledge and money at stake.  Mantle was a drinker, Trout from all reports doesn't touch the stuff. 

[dgies9156]

Trout stays a Halo....$430M for 12 years.

Greatest player I have seen in person play, spoiled here for sure.  Going to suck when we move and won’t be able to watch him in person.

Artie Moreno strikes again.

This is the idiot who gave Albert Pujols the keys to the kingdom. All Pujols did was his best imitation of a .265 hitter.

Way to go Artie!

[Cheeks]

Artie Moreno strikes again.

This is the idiot who gave Albert Pujols the keys to the kingdom. All Pujols did was his best imitation of a .265 hitter.

Way to go Artie!

Maybe, as a Halos fan we look at this one differently.  Albert was on the downslide when signed.  Trout hasn't shown anything of that kind....yet.  They knew when they got Pujols he had 3 or 4 decent years ahead, they were able to get the best record in baseball with him for one year, but ran into the Royals insane run.  Moreno probably felt he would have been burned at the stake if he lost Trout.

That's what I am telling myself anyway.

[Cheeks]

Trout’s main residence is New Jersey, if it was Calif he would have received less than half of his salary.

So apparently it does matter as these guys still choose to legally be elsewhere for primary residence.  If I recall, you have to live more than 185 days in one state.  Jock tax also comes into play, but this is why so many golfers live in Florida as primary residence.

http://fortune.com/2019/03/19/mike-trout-extension-contract-angels/

No idea if true, trusting journalists here