MLB hot stove discussion 2018/19 off season

[JWags85]

Cardinal Nation was demanding something be done. Three years out of the playoffs might be OK if you're a Cub fan. In Cardinal Nation, they're threatening to torch Busch III they're so angry.

There’s the hallmark smug attitude of the “Best Fans in Baseball”, in addition to dog whistling commentary aimed at players who don’t dare sign in STL (that part not aimed at dgies)

[MU82]

We have had more Tommy John surgeries I believe than any other team the last four years. It has been ridiculous.  7 pitchers since 2014, most of them starting rotation.

Ohtani (#2 starter)
Richards (#1 starter)
Skaggs (starter)
Heaney (starter)
Tropeano (starter / reliever)

Middleton (reliever)
Ramirez (reliever)

Maybe y'all should just sign the original!

I hear Tommy would like to make a comeback, and he still could probably get some of these guys who swing from their heels on every pitch to whiff.

[dgies9156]

There’s the hallmark smug attitude of the “Best Fans in Baseball”, in addition to dog whistling commentary aimed at players who don’t dare sign in STL (that part not aimed at dgies)

Brother JWags, I appreciate your exclusion on the dog whistling. I respect that players have a right to do what they want. Curt Flood risked it all for the right to control his destiny and the efforts he made, along with Marvin Miller, Dave McNally, Andy Messersmith and even Ted Simmons, work both ways.

As to the "hallmark smug attitude of the best fans in baseball," we're not Cub fans, I'll admit. In Chicago, you could put the Carol Stream Little League in Wrigley Field and draw 32,000 people. Those fans will slurp brie, drink white wine and spend six innings of the game on their cell phone (or other distraction) anyway. Their owners took advantage of that reality for decades and conditioned the Cub fan to expect bad baseball.

That's why 5 million people showed up for a parade when the Cubs won the World Series. It was the shock of something they never expected to see in their lifetime and probably never will see again!

We Cardinal fans expect to win. Probably like Yankee fans, we have little tolerance for bad baseball. Management knows that. Our former home stadium was one of the seven great pre-cast concrete wonders of the world. If the winds were out of the Northeast, we had the wonderful smell of a now gone Metro East stockyard filling the stadium. We went to see players like Bob Gibson, Ozzie Smith, Lou Brock and more recently, Matt Carpenter, Adam Wainwright, Albert Pujols and Yadier Molina. We filled the place. Cardinal Management knew that if they ever did a planned dump, like the Cubs and Astros did, there would barely be 1.0 million people at Busch III. We're not fair weather fans, we have expectations!

Think of it this way. Metro St. Louis is modestly larger than Orlando, Pittsburgh and Kansas City. It is modestly smaller than Baltimore, Minneapolis-St. Paul, Denver and Tampa. Yet the Cardinals consistently are among the top three or four teams in terms of home attendance in all baseball. They are arguably the most successful small market team in baseball for a reason.

[GGGG]

I mean, are you *trying* to live up to the insufferable a$$hole-ness stereotype of Cardinal fans?  You couldn't put on a better act if you tried.

[Cheeks]

Maybe y'all should just sign the original!

I hear Tommy would like to make a comeback, and he still could probably get some of these guys who swing from their heels on every pitch to whiff.

We had TJ on the roster for three years at one point.  Being a lefty, he probably could get a few free swingers to chase today.

[🏀]

Brother JWags, I appreciate your exclusion on the dog whistling. I respect that players have a right to do what they want. Curt Flood risked it all for the right to control his destiny and the efforts he made, along with Marvin Miller, Dave McNally, Andy Messersmith and even Ted Simmons, work both ways.

As to the "hallmark smug attitude of the best fans in baseball," we're not Cub fans, I'll admit. In Chicago, you could put the Carol Stream Little League in Wrigley Field and draw 32,000 people. Those fans will slurp brie, drink white wine and spend six innings of the game on their cell phone (or other distraction) anyway. Their owners took advantage of that reality for decades and conditioned the Cub fan to expect bad baseball.

That's why 5 million people showed up for a parade when the Cubs won the World Series. It was the shock of something they never expected to see in their lifetime and probably never will see again!

We Cardinal fans expect to win. Probably like Yankee fans, we have little tolerance for bad baseball. Management knows that. Our former home stadium was one of the seven great pre-cast concrete wonders of the world. If the winds were out of the Northeast, we had the wonderful smell of a now gone Metro East stockyard filling the stadium. We went to see players like Bob Gibson, Ozzie Smith, Lou Brock and more recently, Matt Carpenter, Adam Wainwright, Albert Pujols and Yadier Molina. We filled the place. Cardinal Management knew that if they ever did a planned dump, like the Cubs and Astros did, there would barely be 1.0 million people at Busch III. We're not fair weather fans, we have expectations!

Think of it this way. Metro St. Louis is modestly larger than Orlando, Pittsburgh and Kansas City. It is modestly smaller than Baltimore, Minneapolis-St. Paul, Denver and Tampa. Yet the Cardinals consistently are among the top three or four teams in terms of home attendance in all baseball. They are arguably the most successful small market team in baseball for a reason.

Oh my God.

[drewm88]

We're not fair weather fans, we have expectations!

[WarriorDad]

Which one? 

Whether the Cubs are in on Harper or not, it is certainly in Boras and Harper's best interest that other teams think they are in on him.

Our family has been on vacation and returned home last night.  Appears he may return to the Nationals now?  They offered $300M, maybe no one else is willing to go that high.

[Plaque Lives Matter!]

Brother JWags, I appreciate your exclusion on the dog whistling. I respect that players have a right to do what they want. Curt Flood risked it all for the right to control his destiny and the efforts he made, along with Marvin Miller, Dave McNally, Andy Messersmith and even Ted Simmons, work both ways.

As to the "hallmark smug attitude of the best fans in baseball," we're not Cub fans, I'll admit. In Chicago, you could put the Carol Stream Little League in Wrigley Field and draw 32,000 people. Those fans will slurp brie, drink white wine and spend six innings of the game on their cell phone (or other distraction) anyway. Their owners took advantage of that reality for decades and conditioned the Cub fan to expect bad baseball.

That's why 5 million people showed up for a parade when the Cubs won the World Series. It was the shock of something they never expected to see in their lifetime and probably never will see again!

We Cardinal fans expect to win. Probably like Yankee fans, we have little tolerance for bad baseball. Management knows that. Our former home stadium was one of the seven great pre-cast concrete wonders of the world. If the winds were out of the Northeast, we had the wonderful smell of a now gone Metro East stockyard filling the stadium. We went to see players like Bob Gibson, Ozzie Smith, Lou Brock and more recently, Matt Carpenter, Adam Wainwright, Albert Pujols and Yadier Molina. We filled the place. Cardinal Management knew that if they ever did a planned dump, like the Cubs and Astros did, there would barely be 1.0 million people at Busch III. We're not fair weather fans, we have expectations!

Think of it this way. Metro St. Louis is modestly larger than Orlando, Pittsburgh and Kansas City. It is modestly smaller than Baltimore, Minneapolis-St. Paul, Denver and Tampa. Yet the Cardinals consistently are among the top three or four teams in terms of home attendance in all baseball. They are arguably the most successful small market team in baseball for a reason.

[cheebs09]

Brewers are said to be the front runner for Baumgarner and the possible centerpiece would be Corey Ray. If that’s the best prospect the Brewers would have to give up, I’d go for it.

[Pakuni]

White Sox add another arm to the bullpen:

Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal
Source confirms: #WhiteSox in agreement with free-agent RHP Kelvin Herrera on two-year, $18M contract. Vesting or club option for third year could bring total value to $27M. Pending completion of physical. First reported: @JeffPassan.

[#UnleashSean]

In 2019 does the term small market even exist? Especially for a place like st Louis.

[DegenerateDish]

Hmm...

[buckchuckler]

Hmm...

Things are getting weird!!!!!

Independent of other attributes, Jay is a decent fit.

Love the Herrera move as well.  Can never have enough good relievers.  And while 9 per seasons seems a bit expensive at first look, it does seem that is the market rate. 

[MUBurrow]

Brewers are said to be the front runner for Baumgarner and the possible centerpiece would be Corey Ray. If that’s the best prospect the Brewers would have to give up, I’d go for it.

Morosi followed up today that SF would need one of Burnes, Woodruff or Peralta to be included. I'd say no deal.  I give it 50/50 odds that two of those three outperform MadBum in 2019 alone.

[WI inferiority Complexes]

This June, Machado, Yonder Alonso, Jon Jay and all their families will go out to a Father's Day brunch on a beautiful Sunday morning in Chicago.  Later on that night Machado and the rest of the Yankees will fly back to New York.

[Jockey]

Morosi followed up today that SF would need one of Burnes, Woodruff or Peralta to be included. I'd say no deal.  I give it 50/50 odds that two of those three outperform MadBum in 2019 alone.

MadBum will easily outperform all three of these guys next year.

That being said, I agree that I would not do the trade if I had to include one of the three. Not worth it for one year of service. If he had 3 years left, I would do it in a heartbeat.

[jsglow]

Morosi followed up today that SF would need one of Burnes, Woodruff or Peralta to be included. I'd say no deal.  I give it 50/50 odds that two of those three outperform MadBum in 2019 alone.

No chance I'd give up the control the Crew has over those 3 for Baumgarner.

[wadesworld]

I’d be fine giving up Peralta.

[GB Warrior]

I’d be fine giving up Peralta.

+1. Until Peralta shows any semblance of  third pitch, his ceiling is exactly what he was in the playoffs - a long reliever/2 times through the order starter. If we have to give up a top pitching prospect, I hope he's the one.

[cheebs09]

Morosi followed up today that SF would need one of Burnes, Woodruff or Peralta to be included. I'd say no deal.  I give it 50/50 odds that two of those three outperform MadBum in 2019 alone.

He did say they were involved in initial talks. My read is that the price has come down to Ray.

[buckchuckler]

Morosi followed up today that SF would need one of Burnes, Woodruff or Peralta to be included. I'd say no deal.  I give it 50/50 odds that two of those three outperform MadBum in 2019 alone.

Does that even matter?  Who would you rather have on the mound in the playoffs?  Peralta or Bumgarner?  Seems like a pretty easy question. 

And, gosh do the Brewers love former White Sox relievers. 

[RushmoreAcademy]

Does that even matter?  Who would you rather have on the mound in the playoffs?  Peralta or Bumgarner?  Seems like a pretty easy question. 

Exactly. The guy is one of the premier World Series pitchers of our lifetime.  And it's nice to have control over all these young guys, but at some point, if you feel like it's time to take a shot, that's when you have to make the move. 

[cheebs09]

Exactly. The guy is one of the premier World Series pitchers of our lifetime.  And it's nice to have control over all these young guys, but at some point, if you feel like it's time to take a shot, that's when you have to make the move.

I understand this, but I don’t think Baumgarner is that guy. His advanced stats have him more of a mid rotation guy and he’s been benefitting from his home park. They could go after a mid-level FA and get similar results without giving up any prospects.

[jsglow]

I understand this, but I don’t think Baumgarner is that guy. His advanced stats have him more of a mid rotation guy and he’s been benefitting from his home park. They could go after a mid-level FA and get similar results without giving up any prospects.

I don't follow it nearly close enough to know.  What I fear is that there is a huge difference between Baumgarner THEN vs. Baumgarner NOW.  At some price a one year rental makes sense I'm sure.  I'll trust Stearn's judgement better than my own.