MLB hot stove discussion 2018/19 off season

[buckchuckler]

There have always been legit questions about Collins remaining behind the plate and he's done little in the minors so far to answer those. His future may be at 1B. McCann is a backup. Zavala has some upside, but I don't see him as nearly enough of a sure thing that you pass on Grandal, if you can get him for a reasonable deal.

As for Call ... 8th on the depth chart might be generous. Jiminez, Robert, Rutherford, Gonzalez, Adolfo, Walker, Basabe, Weaver and Booker, and that's not including mid 20s AAA/AAAA guys like Thompson, Cordell, Engel, Delmonico and Tilson, etc.

Made 8th up off the top of my head, didn't mean it literally, but I guess it would be pretty close. 

As for Collins, the Sox seem pretty sold on him catching, and do point to improvements this year, but who knows.  I'm not a big Grandal fan, anyways. 

[Pakuni]

Made 8th up off the top of my head, didn't mean it literally, but I guess it would be pretty close. 

As for Collins, the Sox seem pretty sold on him catching, and do point to improvements this year, but who knows.  I'm not a big Grandal fan, anyways.

Yeah, sorry, didn't mean to knock your ranking. Just trying to point out (poorly, it seems) how little the Sox gave up in the deal from an organizational standpoint.
I know the Sox want Collins to catch, but I'm just not seeing it. 29 passed balls the past two seasons (that's Gary Sanchez-esque). And threw out only 29 percent of base stealers last year.
I hope you're right, but I'm not yet convinced.

[wadesworld]

Grandal might've had 29 past balls in the Brewers series alone...and he only caught in like 2 of the 7 games!

[JWags85]

Grandal might've had 29 past balls in the Brewers series alone...and he only caught in like 2 of the 7 games!

He had NO bat in the playoffs either

[wadesworld]

He had NO bat in the playoffs either

Yup.  He was absolutely horrendous.

[Lennys Tap]

He had NO bat in the playoffs either

I'm not a huge Grandal fan, either, but per Fangraghs he had a 3.6 WAR last year - #2 among all catchers behind only JT Realmuto. All other catchers were below 2.0.

[GB Warrior]

Normally, I'd say Ramos netting $9.5 AAV would be very good news for Grandal, but with the way he played in the postseason, the QO and related draft pick could really depress his value

[buckchuckler]

I'm not a huge Grandal fan, either, but per Fangraghs he had a 3.6 WAR last year - #2 among all catchers behind only JT Realmuto. All other catchers were below 2.0.

I just don't think he is going to be worth it.  He is already 30, catchers don't typically age gracefully, and he has a lot of warts to his game already.  Decent power, and decent BBs, but not much else offensively, and defensively, while he grades out ok on most things, that playoff display was concerning. 

He turned down the 18 mil (almost) QO, so he is looking for big money and will cost a draft pick.  I wouldn't touch him. 

And by the way, Wilson Ramos put up over 2 fWAR last year, and over 3 bWAR, and missed some time with injury. 

[buckchuckler]

Sox meeting with Manny today.  Antics and lack of hustle be damned.  This guy is a perfect fit for the Sox organization right now.  Hope Rick had his powerpoint in order. 

[GB Warrior]

Sox meeting with Manny today.  Antics and lack of hustle be damned.  This guy is a perfect fit for the Sox organization right now.  Hope Rick had his powerpoint in order.

It's probably just one slide with a picture of AJ Pierzynski

[buckchuckler]

It's probably just one slide with a picture of AJ Pierzynski

If that were the case, I think we would have heard that he was already signed.

[Dish]

Probably a good time for the Cubs to finally move on from the Addison Russell experience.

[wadesworld]

Probably a good time for the Cubs to finally move on from the Addison Russell experience.

That was the Cubs attempt to help Addison refrain from spending his money too quickly.  Pay the guy his millions in change.

[CTWarrior]

Sox meeting with Manny today.  Antics and lack of hustle be damned.  This guy is a perfect fit for the Sox organization right now.  Hope Rick had his powerpoint in order.

My goodness it would be infuriating for me to root for a guy like that.  This is a guy who couldn't be bothered to run out a gap shot in a one run game with his team down 2 games to none IN THE WORLD SERIES WHILE HE WAS SHOWCASING HIMSELF FOR HIS NEXT CONTRACT turning an easy stand-up double into a single.  There is no reason on Earth to expect him to hustle once he gets his money.

As good as he is, I don't think I'd want him on my team.  That kind of stuff rubs off when it is your alpha dog that plays like that.  I do understand that he brings so much value that many/most would be willing to ignore the lack of hustle. 

[buckchuckler]

My goodness it would be infuriating for me to root for a guy like that.  This is a guy who couldn't be bothered to run out a gap shot in a one run game with his team down 2 games to none IN THE WORLD SERIES WHILE HE WAS SHOWCASING HIMSELF FOR HIS NEXT CONTRACT turning an easy stand-up double into a single.  There is no reason on Earth to expect him to hustle once he gets his money.

As good as he is, I don't think I'd want him on my team.  That kind of stuff rubs off when it is your alpha dog that plays like that.  I do understand that he brings so much value that many/most would be willing to ignore the lack of hustle.

Am I wrong in remembering you are a Red Sox fan?  Didn't you have a similar Manny?  One that not only didn't hustle, but couldn't be bothered to play defense.  Did you cheer for the WS he delivered?

[🏀]

Am I wrong in remembering you are a Red Sox fan?  Didn't you have a similar Manny?  One that not only didn't hustle, but couldn't be bothered to play defense.  Did you cheer for the WS he delivered?

Yeah, but Manny Ramirez antics were cheeky and fun.

[Pakuni]

My goodness it would be infuriating for me to root for a guy like that.  This is a guy who couldn't be bothered to run out a gap shot in a one run game with his team down 2 games to none IN THE WORLD SERIES WHILE HE WAS SHOWCASING HIMSELF FOR HIS NEXT CONTRACT turning an easy stand-up double into a single.  There is no reason on Earth to expect him to hustle once he gets his money.

As good as he is, I don't think I'd want him on my team.  That kind of stuff rubs off when it is your alpha dog that plays like that.  I do understand that he brings so much value that many/most would be willing to ignore the lack of hustle.

I have a very hard time buying the notion  that a four-time all-star, two time Gold Glove winner, who's missed  11 games in the past four years and compiled a 33+ WAR by his 26th birthday is some sort of malcontent who doesn't care or put out effort between the lines.
Baseball is hard. Being great at multiple aspects of the game is really hard. Players don't get as good as Machado without trying hard.

Waaayyyy too much has been made out of one offhand comment made out of frustration. The guy's career speaks for itself.

[CTWarrior]

Am I wrong in remembering you are a Red Sox fan?  Didn't you have a similar Manny?  One that not only didn't hustle, but couldn't be bothered to play defense.  Did you cheer for the WS he delivered?

I am a Red Sox fan.  Not sure what you mean by couldn't be bothered playing defense.  He was terrible at it, but I never got the impression he wasn't trying while he was out there.  I don't remember him not hustling all that much, either.  Ortiz was one who didn't hustle all the time (and I didn't like it), mostly at the end with his bad feet.  And he hustled always in the postseason.

[CTWarrior]

I have a very hard time buying the notion  that a four-time all-star, two time Gold Glove winner, who's missed  11 games in the past four years and compiled a 33+ WAR by his 26th birthday is some sort of malcontent who doesn't care or put out effort between the lines.
Baseball is hard. Being great at multiple aspects of the game is really hard. Players don't get as good as Machado without trying hard.

Waaayyyy too much has been made out of one offhand comment made out of frustration. The guy's career speaks for itself.

I didn't need the offhand comment to tell me he doesn't hustle.  I've watched him 20+ times a year since he came to the league.  He is obviously a great player.  I just hate it when guys don't bust it out of the box.  Only need to do it 2-4 times a game.

[MU82]

I have a very hard time buying the notion  that a four-time all-star, two time Gold Glove winner, who's missed  11 games in the past four years and compiled a 33+ WAR by his 26th birthday is some sort of malcontent who doesn't care or put out effort between the lines.
Baseball is hard. Being great at multiple aspects of the game is really hard. Players don't get as good as Machado without trying hard.

Waaayyyy too much has been made out of one offhand comment made out of frustration. The guy's career speaks for itself.

Sorry, but Machado doesn't hustle. He's far from the only one, but when one doesn't do it in the postseason it stands out.

I'd still take him on my team, but I'd go in with eyes wide open.

[Pakuni]

Sorry, but Machado doesn't hustle. He's far from the only one, but when one doesn't do it in the postseason it stands out.

I'd still take him on my team, but I'd go in with eyes wide open.

Sorry, but I don't believe anyone becomes an elite professional baseball player both at the plate and in the field without hustle.
But my definition of hustle isn't just running hard on routine groundball outs.

[buckchuckler]

I am a Red Sox fan.  Not sure what you mean by couldn't be bothered playing defense.  He was terrible at it, but I never got the impression he wasn't trying while he was out there.  I don't remember him not hustling all that much, either.  Ortiz was one who didn't hustle all the time (and I didn't like it), mostly at the end with his bad feet.  And he hustled always in the postseason.

I think that is a bit of revisionist history, but even if it isn't,  it doesn't matter.  The point is, if Macahdo can help get the Sox better, and to a WS, it doesn't matter how much he hustles or how much I like him.  He has the talent to do things few others can on the field and I'll take it.

You take great players with their warts, whether it is lazy and dirty like Machado can be, or bad (at defense) and on roids like Manny, their talent supercedes their problems.  And in Ramirez's case, the results outweigh the considerable warts.   

The biggest problem I had with Macahdo in the playoffs wasn't his not running out a grounder ( the double he admired into a single was bad though) it was the stupid plays that cost his team that would irritate me to no end.

[CTWarrior]

I think that is a bit of revisionist history, but even if it isn't,  it doesn't matter.  The point is, if Macahdo can help get the Sox better, and to a WS, it doesn't matter how much he hustles or how much I like him.  He has the talent to do things few others can on the field and I'll take it.

You take great players with their warts, whether it is lazy and dirty like Machado can be, or bad and on roids like Manny, their talent supercedes their problems.

I get it and don't disagree with you.  If he's your SS or 3B, you're gonna win more with him than with most other guys.

Just saying I find guys who don't go full out frustrating to watch.  I think of those Yankees team from the late 90's that I hated that won every year.  If you bobbled a ground ball those jerks would beat it out.  If you threw to the wrong base they would advance and make you pay.  If you didn't make a smooth turn on the DP they'd beat the throw to first and prolong the inning.  If the ball got away from the catcher a little bit they'd have their secondary lead and be ready to take the next base.  If you dropped an infield popup with two outs they scored from first.  Machado doesn't do any of that stuff, and when your best player doesn't do it, it rubs off on the other guys.

[Cheeks]

Machado very good player, bad example setter at times.  I appreciate my stars busting ass all the time.  Mike Trout, best player in baseball and busts it every damn time.  It pays off with infield singles, infielders panicking and committing an error, etc.  It was how I was raised, in the Pete Rose era.....bust it out every time.   No doubt MM makes any team likely better as he is a pure upgrade, but there is baggage there that some other super stats managed not to bring with them, including the basics of how to properly play the game.

Feel free to attack on the grounds I am stuck in another era.  I proudly wear the label.

[🏀]

Bye Addison Russell, scumbag.