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Author Topic: 2018 College Football Thread  (Read 51705 times)

forgetful

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Re: 2018 College Football Thread
« Reply #250 on: December 02, 2018, 05:20:38 PM »
Newer is all relative, but UCF is 55 years old.
And it's nuts to think that record donations to the athletic fund coming immediately after unprecedented success on the football field is a mere coincidence.
In fact, there's a proven link between athletic success and donations. Loyola, for example, says its donations were up 660 percent after their Final Four run.

Its just not as simple as you are claiming it is. 

UCF just recently started a new capital campaign with a goal of $500M in donations.  For these campaigns, usually about half of it is secured before announcing the campaign and setting the goal (so they can be assured of reaching it).  They then announce the donations with delays, to keep steady publicity to help secure more donations. 

Much of these donations to athletics were likely secured long before their undefeated season. 

Now, the increase in Loyola isn't simply a result of success.  If they continue to see success, you will see massive decreases in donations that trend back down toward average year-year levels. What success does, is allows a temporary window to go and ask/collect more revenue.  Long term though, there is no increase in overall revenue that correlates with success, because their is only so much money in the donor pool and athletics isn't a cause that most of that pool cares about.

The number one reason people donate is because they believe in some kind of mission/cause and the University has a project that is consistent with that cause.

And yes, being 55 years old, their first graduates are now in their 70's.  Post-retirement ages, and donations left at death, are ripe fruit for big donations, each year now that pool of potential donors is growing exponentially for UCF.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2018, 05:22:58 PM by forgetful »

Pakuni

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Re: 2018 College Football Thread
« Reply #251 on: December 02, 2018, 05:29:23 PM »
Its just not as simple as you are claiming it is. 

So then, are general donations to UCF up as significantly as those to the athletic fund? Should be if it's not athletic success driving this, right?

forgetful

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Re: 2018 College Football Thread
« Reply #252 on: December 02, 2018, 06:08:51 PM »
So then, are general donations to UCF up as significantly as those to the athletic fund? Should be if it's not athletic success driving this, right?

And they are, they brought in a record setting $81M last year, including their largest donation ($10.25M) ever (for a business school).

GGGG

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Re: 2018 College Football Thread
« Reply #253 on: December 02, 2018, 06:12:39 PM »
But athletic success is part of that equation.  It makes people feel good about the school.  It's a point of pride. 

Pakuni

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Re: 2018 College Football Thread
« Reply #254 on: December 02, 2018, 07:03:18 PM »
And they are, they brought in a record setting $81M last year, including their largest donation ($10.25M) ever (for a business school).

How does that compare to 2012?

Actually, that largest donation you mention came from a couple who described themselves as "ardent UCF Knights football fans" and they earmarked a chunk of that money specifically for the football program.  And the photo the university put out with the announcement of the donation has them posing with a football jersey.
So probably football had a part in it.

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/features/education/school-zone/os-ucf-donation-alumni-20180907-story,amp.html
« Last Edit: December 02, 2018, 07:51:46 PM by Pakuni »

GGGG

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Re: 2018 College Football Thread
« Reply #255 on: December 02, 2018, 08:17:04 PM »
Usually the largest donors to an institution give to multiple parts of the institution.  So this doesn't surprise me in the least.

forgetful

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Re: 2018 College Football Thread
« Reply #256 on: December 02, 2018, 10:35:19 PM »
How does that compare to 2012?

Actually, that largest donation you mention came from a couple who described themselves as "ardent UCF Knights football fans" and they earmarked a chunk of that money specifically for the football program.  And the photo the university put out with the announcement of the donation has them posing with a football jersey.
So probably football had a part in it.

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/features/education/school-zone/os-ucf-donation-alumni-20180907-story,amp.html

$12.5M in 2012.  So approximately a 7-fold increase since then in charitable giving.

MU82

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Re: 2018 College Football Thread
« Reply #257 on: December 03, 2018, 08:23:34 AM »
A lot of interesting points and debates here the last couple of days. I'll throw out my 8 cents ...

1. The 4 most deserving teams were selected.

2. If it was possible to feel less than 0% sorry for Ohio State, that's what I'd feel. Want to make the final 4? Don't lose to mediocre-at-best Purdue (2018) and Iowa (2017) teams. You and only you controlled your fate. You and only you cost yourself playoff bids. Period. Alabama didn't lose to Vanderbilt, Clemson didn't lose to Wake Forest, Oklahoma didn't lose to Texas Tech, and Notre Dame didn't lose to Florida State. When you lose by 700 points to Purdue, there are consequences.

3. I also don't feel sorry for UCF. That's life in the big city. If they want to declare themselves national champions, cool. They can declare themselves Miss Universe for all I care.

4. An 8-team playoff would be the best situation. You have the champion of each P5 conference and 3 at-large teams, the top 4 seeds host the quarterfinals, and the rest of the schedule is the same as now. Yes, the #9 team will beyotch, but who cares? If you made it a 64-team field, the #65 team would beyotch.

5. The main problem with this is that we already are asking college kids to play an awful lot of games. Maybe you go back to an 11-game regular season (which was the norm until about 20 years ago) or eliminate conference title games (which now serve as de-facto play-in games). Either move would reduce schools' financial takes, though, so I imagine both would be resisted. So they would talk a good game about caring most about the athlete-students' well-being, but that would be another lie.

6. It's fun to talk about this stuff, but any 8-team playoff is many, many, many years away. If it ever happens.

7. I never watch meaningless bowl games -- not even one second of any of them -- but I do watch these playoffs, and I think I'm a fairly typical "casual college football fan."

8. I am now officially a Clemson fan. Go Tigers! Crush ND!
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

GGGG

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Re: 2018 College Football Thread
« Reply #258 on: December 03, 2018, 08:27:08 AM »
Regarding #5,  FCS, D2 and D3 teams that advance far enough are already playing as many games as you are suggesting for FBS schools.  In the case of D2 and D3, they are doing so all before Christmas as well. 

MU82

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Re: 2018 College Football Thread
« Reply #259 on: December 03, 2018, 08:32:20 AM »
Regarding #5,  FCS, D2 and D3 teams that advance far enough are already playing as many games as you are suggesting for FBS schools.  In the case of D2 and D3, they are doing so all before Christmas as well.

Good point, Sultan. I guess folks at those schools don't really care about the health of their athlete-students either!
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Pakuni

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Re: 2018 College Football Thread
« Reply #260 on: December 03, 2018, 09:28:48 AM »
$12.5M in 2012.  So approximately a 7-fold increase since then in charitable giving.

I don't think you're doing an apples to apples comparison.
I presume you're getting the $12.5 million from the school's FY2012 financial report (let me know if that's wrong).
Looking at the same line item in the FY2017 report, the figure is $29.9 million ... well short of a 7-fold increase, and a lesser growth rate than athletic department giving.
Also, if you read the report, it appears "The UCF Athletics Association, Inc." is among the "component units" included in the overall statement, so that the total donations includes donations to the athletic departments. Again, if I'm mistaken about that, let me know.
But regardless, according to the financial reports at least, giving to the general university definitely has not increased 7-fold, and has not grown at a rate faster than the athletic department.

Lastly, I'll just drop this here and won't derail this thread any further. It's a 10-year study of the link between contributions and athletic success at D-1 schools. TL;DR version: Schools with athletic success see more than twice the contributions as schools without.

The results show a significant statistical difference of more than double in the percent increase of overall
private  contributions  for  institutions  with  athletics  success  compared  with  all  higher  education  institutions.  Furthermore, 
a  small  statistical  difference  was  found  for  the  athletics  success  in  private  institutions  compared  with  public  institutions 
that experienced similar athletics success. No difference was found by region, for history of athletics success, or between
basketball or football athletics success for those institutions experiencing athletics success. The study concluded that there
are significant implications for overall private financial support for institutions that experience athletics success, especially
those with a private affiliation.


https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/2158244015611186

« Last Edit: December 03, 2018, 09:33:00 AM by Pakuni »

forgetful

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Re: 2018 College Football Thread
« Reply #261 on: December 03, 2018, 10:11:29 AM »
I don't think you're doing an apples to apples comparison.
I presume you're getting the $12.5 million from the school's FY2012 financial report (let me know if that's wrong).
Looking at the same line item in the FY2017 report, the figure is $29.9 million ... well short of a 7-fold increase, and a lesser growth rate than athletic department giving.
Also, if you read the report, it appears "The UCF Athletics Association, Inc." is among the "component units" included in the overall statement, so that the total donations includes donations to the athletic departments. Again, if I'm mistaken about that, let me know.
But regardless, according to the financial reports at least, giving to the general university definitely has not increased 7-fold, and has not grown at a rate faster than the athletic department.

Lastly, I'll just drop this here and won't derail this thread any further. It's a 10-year study of the link between contributions and athletic success at D-1 schools. TL;DR version: Schools with athletic success see more than twice the contributions as schools without.

The results show a significant statistical difference of more than double in the percent increase of overall
private  contributions  for  institutions  with  athletics  success  compared  with  all  higher  education  institutions.  Furthermore, 
a  small  statistical  difference  was  found  for  the  athletics  success  in  private  institutions  compared  with  public  institutions 
that experienced similar athletics success. No difference was found by region, for history of athletics success, or between
basketball or football athletics success for those institutions experiencing athletics success. The study concluded that there
are significant implications for overall private financial support for institutions that experience athletics success, especially
those with a private affiliation.


https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/2158244015611186

The $12.5M was from the UCF Foundation annual report.  The amount in the 2017 Foundation report is $63M. The $81M is probably fiscal year 2018.

I'm aware of that paper and others, and reiterate that it isn't as simple as athletic success.

Mr. Nielsen

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Re: 2018 College Football Thread
« Reply #262 on: December 03, 2018, 12:44:03 PM »


7. I never watch meaningless bowl games -- not even one second of any of them -- but I do watch these playoffs, and I think I'm a fairly typical "casual college football fan."


If you are only watching 3 games. Semi & finals, I'm not sure casual fan is the correct term. So, you will not watch the Rose, Peach, Fiesta or Sugar Bowls?
If we are all thinking alike, we're not thinking at all. It's OK to disagree. Just don't be disagreeable.
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jesmu84

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Re: 2018 College Football Thread
« Reply #263 on: December 04, 2018, 07:29:49 AM »
Urban retiring after Rose bowl due to brain cyst

No way he ends up somewhere else in a couple years, right?


GGGG

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Re: 2018 College Football Thread
« Reply #264 on: December 04, 2018, 07:46:42 AM »
Urban retiring after Rose bowl due to brain cyst

No way he ends up somewhere else in a couple years, right?


Probably.  Can't seem to handle the job physically but doesn't want to do anything else.

EDIT:  So USC in about a year?
« Last Edit: December 04, 2018, 07:56:40 AM by Sultan of South Wayne »

jesmu84

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Re: 2018 College Football Thread
« Reply #265 on: December 04, 2018, 08:08:15 AM »

Probably.  Can't seem to handle the job physically but doesn't want to do anything else.

EDIT:  So USC in about a year?

Or Notre Dame

GGGG

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Re: 2018 College Football Thread
« Reply #266 on: December 04, 2018, 08:11:19 AM »
Is Brian Kelly going somewhere?

jesmu84

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Re: 2018 College Football Thread
« Reply #267 on: December 04, 2018, 10:58:47 AM »
Is Brian Kelly going somewhere?

Not this year, at least

MUBurrow

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Re: 2018 College Football Thread
« Reply #268 on: December 04, 2018, 03:51:34 PM »

Probably.  Can't seem to handle the job physically but doesn't want to do anything else.

EDIT:  So USC in about a year?

I don't think so - Urban Meyer refuses to subject himself to oversight of any kind. USC's Helton hire shows how much power the athletic department holds there. Notre Dame is even worse. I would bet on an SEC school or southern ACC/B12 school desperate to win and willing to make Meyer the king of his own castle.  Two years is pretty far out to look, but I would put my order of likelihood as (1) FSU, (2)Oklahoma State, (3) Tennessee, (4) Oklahoma.

GGGG

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Re: 2018 College Football Thread
« Reply #269 on: December 04, 2018, 03:57:47 PM »
I don't think so - Urban Meyer refuses to subject himself to oversight of any kind. USC's Helton hire shows how much power the athletic department holds there. Notre Dame is even worse. I would bet on an SEC school or southern ACC/B12 school desperate to win and willing to make Meyer the king of his own castle.  Two years is pretty far out to look, but I would put my order of likelihood as (1) FSU, (2)Oklahoma State, (3) Tennessee, (4) Oklahoma.


Well I have a feeling that Swann might be run out of USC after next year too which could open the door for him.

But the idea of him at FSU coaching against his former assistant at Florida would be interesting.

MUBurrow

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Re: 2018 College Football Thread
« Reply #270 on: December 04, 2018, 04:09:56 PM »

Well I have a feeling that Swann might be run out of USC after next year too which could open the door for him.

But the idea of him at FSU coaching against his former assistant at Florida would be interesting.

That's a good point. If USC goes bowlless another year or two, I could see them pining for the wild west Pete Carroll days and seeing Meyer as their white knight.  My thought was that FSU would back the money truck up for Urban - I can only imagine the uncomfortable dynamic that will be brewing with their donors if Taggart doesn't start winning.  And they also let Bowden get away with straight up killing a kid, so its not like they'll care about a couple of deleted text messages. 

JWags85

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Re: 2018 College Football Thread
« Reply #271 on: December 04, 2018, 10:33:15 PM »
As I’ve mentioned, going to school in OH, I unfortunately have many friends that are ardent OSU fans. Fortunately, most of them are refreshingly realistic about Urban, and can acknowledge his myriad flaws. They saw this coming and are kind of relieved he’s gone.

HOWEVER, then you have my old roommate’s wife. She’s not the diehard sleep in a jersey fan, but she’s a vocal one. She posted an IG praising Urban being “a complete class act”, “a committed family man”, and “an ADMIRABLE man of god”. You can’t make it up.  Can’t fathom being that much of a naive Pollyanna


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MU82

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Re: 2018 College Football Thread
« Reply #274 on: December 05, 2018, 11:35:30 AM »
If you are only watching 3 games. Semi & finals, I'm not sure casual fan is the correct term. So, you will not watch the Rose, Peach, Fiesta or Sugar Bowls?

I will be surprised if I watch one second of those exhibition games.

So you're probably right that, at least when it comes to college football, I'm a "sub-casual fan."

My point was that many of those who have little interest in exhibition football games -- which basically is what 37 of the 40 bowl games are -- will tune in to games that actually matter.

And of course I'm not talking about fans of teams. I acknowledge that Troy fans are probably totally geeked for the Dollar General Bowl.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson