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Author Topic: NCAA recent investigations  (Read 56431 times)



MU82

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Re: NCAA recent investigations
« Reply #477 on: August 08, 2019, 12:59:18 PM »
There's some progress, Utah was punished for Arizona's infractions.

Indeed. Nice to know that Utah and NC State will be punished for the rampant cheating and complete disregard to rules of Arizona and UNC. At least they're getting the conferences right. Progress!
“Were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter.”

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Cheeks

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Re: NCAA recent investigations
« Reply #478 on: August 08, 2019, 11:01:50 PM »
Indeed. Nice to know that Utah and NC State will be punished for the rampant cheating and complete disregard to rules of Arizona and UNC. At least they're getting the conferences right. Progress!

Guess we just ignore the major penalties over the years to USC football (program hasn’t been the same since), Louisville basketball, Auburn, Tennessee, etc, etc

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wadesworld

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Re: NCAA recent investigations
« Reply #479 on: August 08, 2019, 11:06:18 PM »
Guess we just ignore the major penalties over the years to USC football (program hasn’t been the same since), Louisville basketball, Auburn, Tennessee, etc, etc

Well dang you’re right. They punished programs years ago so we should all just ignore that they claimed there would be 2 “major programs” notified of “major violations” by the end of July and 6 programs by the end of the summer. We have multiple college coaches on FBI wire taps talking about paying players. And the NCAA sits in their hands...

But it’s okay! USC football was penalized a decade ago! Good job NCAA!

Cheeks

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Re: NCAA recent investigations
« Reply #480 on: August 09, 2019, 08:12:00 AM »
Well dang you’re right. They punished programs years ago so we should all just ignore that they claimed there would be 2 “major programs” notified of “major violations” by the end of July and 6 programs by the end of the summer. We have multiple college coaches on FBI wire taps talking about paying players. And the NCAA sits in their hands...

But it’s okay! USC football was penalized a decade ago! Good job NCAA!

End of Summer where I live is around Sept 21st.  Did they say end of July?  Maybe they did, timelines can change.  Wheels of justice are often slow, that doesn’t mean justice cannot be reached.

The bigger point was major programs have been penalized and will continue to be, despite the rehash of Tark’s Quote or versions of it by the same people over and over.
”The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers.”
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Loose Cannon

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Re: NCAA recent investigations
« Reply #481 on: August 09, 2019, 10:34:55 AM »
.

The bigger point was major programs have been penalized and will continue to be, despite the rehash of Tark’s Quote or versions of it by the same people over and over.

Agree with penalized.  Degree of penalized open for Debate.
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is NOT ignorance, it's the Illusion of knowledge."....Stephen Hawking

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: NCAA recent investigations
« Reply #482 on: August 09, 2019, 01:16:02 PM »
End of Summer where I live is around Sept 21st.  Did they say end of July?  Maybe they did, timelines can change.  Wheels of justice are often slow, that doesn’t mean justice cannot be reached.

The bigger point was major programs have been penalized and will continue to be, despite the rehash of Tark’s Quote or versions of it by the same people over and over.

I hope to be wrong, Cheeks. In any other business, Miller, Self, Wade, Pearl, etc. would be gone at this point.

Despite your teat suckling protestations on the divinity of the NCAA, their track record, if held up to your T-Shirtgate standards, is at the least, suspect. They publicly promised teeth this time, let’s see it. I anxiously await the Autumn Solstice, yet I am sipping on my Flat Tire in expectation.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2019, 01:26:27 PM by Dr. Blackheart »

Cheeks

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Re: NCAA recent investigations
« Reply #483 on: August 10, 2019, 11:37:49 AM »
Agree with penalized.  Degree of penalized open for Debate.

USC has never been the same in football.
”The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers.”
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Cheeks

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Re: NCAA recent investigations
« Reply #484 on: August 10, 2019, 11:43:38 AM »
I hope to be wrong, Cheeks. In any other business, Miller, Self, Wade, Pearl, etc. would be gone at this point.

Despite your teat suckling protestations on the divinity of the NCAA, their track record, if held up to your T-Shirtgate standards, is at the least, suspect. They publicly promised teeth this time, let’s see it. I anxiously await the Autumn Solstice, yet I am sipping on my Flat Tire in expectation.

The NCAA has many flaws, so despite your absurd claims I do acknowledge those flaws.  They have zero subpoena power....none.  The have very small enforcement resources.  I’d love for them to have much more, the members don’t.  Timelines are great, but at the end of the day you need evidence.  As for your claims about business, maybe.  I’m in the entertainment and sports industry and straight as an arrow when it comes to biz stuff....I have seen, however, some crap go on over 20+ Years that I would have thought fireable but was ignored so I don’t get surprised by anything.  Sometimes schools firing coaches will lead to even more damage because they spill even more beans.

As for t-Shirt gate...LOL.  Yeah, add a bit more to that.
”The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers.”
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Loose Cannon

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Re: NCAA recent investigations
« Reply #485 on: August 10, 2019, 12:52:22 PM »
USC has n ever been the same in football.

That not a big enough of a Brush for me. 
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is NOT ignorance, it's the Illusion of knowledge."....Stephen Hawking

Billy Hoyle

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Re: NCAA recent investigations
« Reply #486 on: August 10, 2019, 01:02:20 PM »
USC has never been the same in football.

Hey, forget that, or that the NCAA was found as having overstepped their bounds trying to nail them. Or that they were caught doing the same thing with Miami because they wanted to tear that program apart. That’s just semantics. Let’s instead repeat a quote one from one of then sleaziest coaches in sports history.
What, you still throwing up bricks? What is this, a Masons convention? Clank, clank! I need, like, a welding torch to play in this league! I got an idea, let's just stop right now and gather up all these bricks and let's build a shelter for the homeless so maybe your mother will have a place to stay

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: NCAA recent investigations
« Reply #487 on: August 10, 2019, 01:09:46 PM »
USC has never been the same in football.

You’re right. But they’ve been pretty good. And that’s with being run by an inept AD and head coach.
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Cheeks

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Re: NCAA recent investigations
« Reply #488 on: August 10, 2019, 01:40:33 PM »
You’re right. But they’ve been pretty good. And that’s with being run by an inept AD and head coach.

???

They have had 4 coaches since 2010.  2 AD’s.  Been to 6 bowl games, only one a Rose Bowl and lost 3 of 6 bowl games.  They finished with a losing season last year which would be like Duke basketball finishing with a losing season.  Only one PAC 12 championship.  Haden was the AD for most of the post sanctions, not Swann.
”The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers.”
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Cheeks

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Re: NCAA recent investigations
« Reply #489 on: August 10, 2019, 01:46:06 PM »
That not a big enough of a Brush for me.


Louisville has theirmchampionshipmrevoked only a few years ago.


Major programs currently on NCAA probation at the moment to various degrees.  Nine of them, in my opinion with the exception of Oregon basketball, is as good as they were, they took a step back because of the penalties.

Syracuse basketball
BYU basketball
Maryland basketball
Oregon football and basketball
UCONN basketball




”The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers.”
― Thomas Jefferson

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: NCAA recent investigations
« Reply #490 on: August 10, 2019, 02:13:18 PM »

Louisville has theirmchampionshipmrevoked only a few years ago.


Major programs currently on NCAA probation at the moment to various degrees.  Nine of them, in my opinion with the exception of Oregon basketball, is as good as they were, they took a step back because of the penalties.

Syracuse basketball
BYU basketball
Maryland basketball
Oregon football and basketball
UCONN basketball

Miami Football
Cam Newton’s dad
UNC academics
tOSU football
Bama football
Izzo getting one game for paying Dawson’s AAU coach
Duke jewelry


Billy Hoyle

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Re: NCAA recent investigations
« Reply #491 on: August 10, 2019, 02:32:14 PM »
Miami Football
Cam Newton’s dad
UNC academics
tOSU football
Bama football
Izzo getting one game for paying Dawson’s AAU coach
Duke jewelry

You know the NCAA investigator on the Miami case was fired because he overstepped his bounds and used impermissible methods to get information he couldn’t legally get out of Shapiro because they were desperate to nail them, right? Same guy who was found to have overstepped his bounds in the USC investigation. Fact.

UNC academics. Not an issue under NCAA jurisdiction. Fact.  UNC had been hit for academic issues a few years involving a single tutor a few years prior though. Fact.

OSU football. Coach fired, players suspended. Traded personal awards for goods like tattoos. Facts.

Bama football, Just making up stuff now?

Newton’s dad. Unfortunately, if money didn’t change hands there’s no violation. I didn’t realize Newton played for Mississippi State anyway.

Izzo. Paid a guy who was a qualified coach to be a camp coach, normal procedure for decades. Compliance missed it enforcing the new rule in it’s first year. Harsh suspension but a suspension nonetheless. Fact.

Duke jewelry. Don’t know what the outcome was, but you cannot fault an entire program (which included our current coach) when a player goes home and gets special treatment on a loan. Fact.

Nothing but conjecture here. Just angry that outcomes to your perceived “facts” didn’t turn out as you thought they should, despite your lack of access to evidence.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2019, 02:35:09 PM by Billy Hoyle »
What, you still throwing up bricks? What is this, a Masons convention? Clank, clank! I need, like, a welding torch to play in this league! I got an idea, let's just stop right now and gather up all these bricks and let's build a shelter for the homeless so maybe your mother will have a place to stay

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: NCAA recent investigations
« Reply #492 on: August 10, 2019, 02:48:33 PM »
You know the NCAA investigator on the Miami case was fired because he overstepped his bounds and used impermissible methods to get information he couldn’t legally get out of Shapiro because they were desperate to nail them, right? Same guy who was found to have overstepped his bounds in the USC investigation. Fact.

UNC academics. Not an issue under NCAA jurisdiction. Fact.  UNC had been hit for academic issues a few years involving a single tutor a few years prior though. Fact.

OSU football. Coach fired, players suspended. Traded personal awards for goods like tattoos. Facts.

Bama football, Just making up stuff now?

Newton’s dad. Unfortunately, if money didn’t change hands there’s no violation. I didn’t realize Newton played for Mississippi State anyway.

Izzo. Paid a guy who was a qualified coach to be a camp coach, normal procedure for decades. Compliance missed it enforcing the new rule in it’s first year. Harsh suspension but a suspension nonetheless. Fact.

Duke jewelry. Don’t know what the outcome was, but you cannot fault an entire program (which included our current coach) when a player goes home and gets special treatment on a loan. Fact.

Nothing but conjecture here. Just angry that outcomes to your perceived “facts” didn’t turn out as you thought they should, despite your lack of access to evidence.

Lots of excuses there Billy.

You can start here on Bama

https://mgoblog.com/mgoboard/alabama%27s-long-history-unpunished-ncaa-violations-under-nick-saban

Cheeks

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Re: NCAA recent investigations
« Reply #493 on: August 10, 2019, 02:54:48 PM »
Miami Football
Cam Newton’s dad
UNC academics
tOSU football
Bama football
Izzo getting one game for paying Dawson’s AAU coach
Duke jewelry

UNC you keep bringing up erroneously
Duke...were they guilty of the jewelry situation?  You need evidence
Etc

I gave you plenty of examples of major programs hit and some hit very hard.  You’re right, not all are punished just like the FBI, police, sheriffs, etc don’t always capture or find enough actual evidence to nail all the guilty parties.  And the NCAA has nowhere near the power or resources those entities have.

”The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers.”
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Cheeks

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Re: NCAA recent investigations
« Reply #494 on: August 10, 2019, 02:56:14 PM »
Lots of excuses there Billy.

You can start here on Bama

https://mgoblog.com/mgoboard/alabama%27s-long-history-unpunished-ncaa-violations-under-nick-saban

Awesome source....fantastic.  LOL.  Most of the article is “accused”.....”coaches think they might be cheating”, etc.  Ok, well there needs to be actual evidence.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2019, 02:57:55 PM by Cheeks »
”The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers.”
― Thomas Jefferson

WhiteTrash

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Re: NCAA recent investigations
« Reply #495 on: August 10, 2019, 03:11:38 PM »
I think it could be fairly argued that the penalties have not been puinitive enough to dissuade repeat offenses or others from breaking rules.

I honestly feel (not know) that schools like Louisville, USC, Arizona, most of the SEC, etc. have done an informal cost benefit analysis of cheating to improve their teams and either outright support cheating or consciously look the other way in the presence of cheating.
 
Based upon the benefits of their unethical activities: access to better conferences, national championships, more money, increased national profile for the school, etc., I think their analysis was/is correct. The cost is not that significant.

The most egregious example of this (IMO) is Baylor. A traditionally pathetic football and basketball school some 15 or 20  years ago decided it wanted to raise its profile, increase donations, generate more applications, etc. Next thing you know Baylor is good in sports. The money is pouring in. We come to find out that some 50+ women have been raped and there is systematic cover up reaching all the way to the university president. They still have new facilities and cashing BXII and NCAA checks.

How has Baylor been punished?

Also, Louisville, cheated under Pitino, got an ACC invite, got moderately punished but still get the $40MM per year from the ACC going forward. No significant penalties and looking at a top 10 team this year.

These are but two of dozens of stories of how it pays to cheat. From a pure "cost/benefit" argument, the answer is clear. (Like the formula for how car companies decide to issue a recall presented in 'Fight Club')

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: NCAA recent investigations
« Reply #496 on: August 10, 2019, 03:21:16 PM »
Awesome source....fantastic.  LOL.  Most of the article is “accused”.....”coaches think they might be cheating”, etc.  Ok, well there needs to be actual evidence.

Wait, you are answering for Billy again?  But since I have you, it’s my job now to provide evidence?  I thought that is the NCAAs?

Listen, just about every sports governing body has been proven corrupt. It’s the fox and the hen house.  That’s the history. When you give Juan Anderson three games for attending a Brewers game with his roommate and Tom Izzo one non-con game for illegally paying an AAU coach and nothing for covered up rapes, then you have lost credibility as an organization. If the NCAA really cared they would beef up or outsource the staff instead of offering up lame excuses.

They have the chance to prove me wrong in the coming days.  I remain doubtful.

MU82

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Re: NCAA recent investigations
« Reply #497 on: August 10, 2019, 03:33:05 PM »
Interesting article today that directly addresses the commission, the NCAA and the whole UNC academic fraud thing ...

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/education/unc-scandal/article233693507.html

From the article:

The NCAA this week quietly dropped a recommended reform that would have given the association more authority to handle the kind of academic misconduct that left dozens of athletes at UNC-Chapel Hill with subpar educations.

Two NCAA panels, including one led by former U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, had called for the NCAA to reform a rule that lets member schools make the call on what constitutes academic fraud on their campuses. UNC cited that rule to escape NCAA sanctions by contending classes that never met and had provided high grades for term papers regardless of quality were legitimate.

That outcome in October 2017 drew sustained national scorn. Months later, the NCAA formed an academic integrity working group that recommended the NCAA create a bylaw that expanded its infractions committee’s reach for egregious academic misconduct cases.

But at a meeting this week, the NCAA’s board of directors for the Division I schools that include big-money conferences such as the ACC and SEC decided not to pursue the reform. That decision wasn’t included in an NCAA news release Wednesday that announced the board “seeks to shore up academic integrity rules.”


In other words, the NCAA didn't want to know about the UNC fraud ... the NCAA doesn't want to know about such cases in the future ... and the NCAA didn't want everybody to know that they don't want to know!

In rejecting the call by the Rice Commission to enact rules to enact punishment for future academic fraud, the NCAA is "trusting" its member institutions to keep this from happening again.

Yeah, because what school would ever cheat at academics to gain an advantage in sports?

Several experts knowledgeable about NCAA rules and enforcement have said the UNC academic fraud case was not necessarily outside the NCAA's "jurisdiction." They believe the NCAA could have gone after UNC for "lack of institutional control" but simply chose not to -- possibly because they didn't want to go after one of the top basketball programs in the country, and possibly because didn't want to deal with lawsuits that might have come out of it.

IMHO, what UNC did was worse than any other violation I have seen discussed in this thread. Paying players goes to amateurism, which is a sham anyway. Academic fraud? That goes right to the heart of what every university's mission is supposed to be.

The idea that the NCAA cares primarily about its basketball and football players' education is laughable, and pretty much everybody knows it. By quietly rejecting this Rice Commission recommendation, they showed it again.

And the notion that the NCAA adopted this new agent rule for the "good" of the athletes ... please.
“Were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter.”

— Thomas Jefferson

Cheeks

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Re: NCAA recent investigations
« Reply #498 on: August 10, 2019, 03:55:41 PM »
Wait, you are answering for Billy again?  But since I have you, it’s my job now to provide evidence?  I thought that is the NCAAs?

Listen, just about every sports governing body has been proven corrupt. It’s the fox and the hen house.  That’s the history. When you give Juan Anderson three games for attending a Brewers game with his roommate and Tom Izzo one non-con game for illegally paying an AAU coach and nothing for covered up rapes, then you have lost credibility as an organization. If the NCAA really cared they would beef up or outsource the staff instead of offering up lame excuses.

They have the chance to prove me wrong in the coming days.  I remain doubtful.

I’ve offered you and many others here a bet to prove once and for all we are two different people, two different states....pony up the money for charity....if I am going to expose you and others we are going to have a good cause benefit from it.  He will know more about this subject than EVERYONE on this board combined because of what he does for a living.

Now, your comments about really caring...that’s an entirely different conversation that you and I likely agree on.  The resources the NCAA has are limited because the $$$$$ is plowed back into the membership in various forms.  Billy can answer better than I can, but my guess is the NCAA cares, certainly some schools do, especially those that are playing within the rules and have to compete against the cheaters, but to care more they need more resources which likely isn’t coming.  I don’t recall how big the enforcement staff is these days, but even if you doubled it you still cannot get past the lack of subpoena power they have no matter how much you want results.  Witnesses aren’t compelled to do a damn thing.

”The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers.”
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Cheeks

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Re: NCAA recent investigations
« Reply #499 on: August 10, 2019, 04:00:18 PM »
Amateurism is a sham for volleyball, track, soccer, women’s sports, most men’s sports?  Lazy again MU82..last I checked most student athletes don’t play men’s basketball and football.  Even those that do, a huge number play at schools where they lose money on athletics, but keep focusing on the that tiny sliver and extrapolate as if it is everything under NCAA jurisdiction that you continue to butcher time and again.

And of course your anti-screed on what the intentions are for....right out of the book of agenda journalism....thoughts and prayers.

« Last Edit: August 10, 2019, 04:05:24 PM by Cheeks »
”The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers.”
― Thomas Jefferson