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Author Topic: Nico's potential impact  (Read 14131 times)

NWarsh

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Re: Nico's potential impact
« Reply #25 on: August 24, 2018, 09:57:29 AM »
You say that now but if Koby did transfer and we found ourselves without a top tier PG the year after Mannion left I have a suspicion your narrative would place the blame on wojo for not being prepared for the long term.

You worry about that when it comes along.  Plenty of ways to fill that gap.  You do not get many opportunities to add arguably the best HS PG in the country and 1 and done candidate to a team that already has the experience and talent to make the final 4.  With Nico you are a true NC contender, and I take that all day/every day.

Silkk the Shaka

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Re: Nico's potential impact
« Reply #26 on: August 24, 2018, 10:16:48 AM »
The idea behind the "Hank set the rebuild back a year" is centered around the idea that he cost us other players who would have stayed longer. It is a fact that Steve Taylor and Gabe Levin transferred mainly because of Henry's commitment. It has been speculated that Henry's presence scared off other potential additions such as Kyle Washington. Personally, if I had a choice between 1 year of Henry or 1 year of Teve/2 years of Levin/2 years of Washington, I would take the latter all day every day. But it's all speculation. There is no way to know that we would have picked up Washington or a comparable player. There is also no reason why you can't land Henry and also convince players like Teve, Levin, and Washingon to sign up, Wojo just couldn't get it done.

There's also no way to quantify the other benefits of landing a 5-star recruit and getting him into the NBA. Without that, maybe the Hausers or Markus don't come here. Maybe we're not even on Mannion's radar because Wojo hadn't put anyone from Marquette into the NBA. Who knows? It's all message board fodder. Personally, I'd rather have the coach who goes for the 5 star recruit then the one who doesn't because he might scare off other players.

I stand firmly in this camp. When we landed Hank I was positive it would pay dividends down the road, regardless of whether or not we were actually good that year he was here.

barfolomew

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Re: Nico's potential impact
« Reply #27 on: August 24, 2018, 10:53:01 AM »
You say that now but if Koby did transfer and we found ourselves without a top tier PG the year after Mannion left I have a suspicion your narrative would place the blame on wojo for not being prepared for the long term.

Wouldn't Koby be giving up one of his remaining years of eligibility if he transferred again?
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onepost

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Re: Nico's potential impact
« Reply #28 on: August 24, 2018, 10:57:36 AM »
You worry about that when it comes along.  Plenty of ways to fill that gap.  You do not get many opportunities to add arguably the best HS PG in the country and 1 and done candidate to a team that already has the experience and talent to make the final 4.  With Nico you are a true NC contender, and I take that all day/every day.

A better-worded version of my point.  You bring in as much talent as you possibly can.  If depth guys leave then guys leave: that's just the cost of going all in for a season like 2019-2020.

Comparing Henry and Nico from an on-the-court standpoint is apples and oranges.  Henry was a ball dominant, inefficient PF who knew he was the only threat on an inexperienced, talent-deprived team.  It was his show to run, and he ended up as basically a late lottery pick.  In turn, Wojo has evidence he can get you to the league immediately (I still wonder what that offense would have been had Henry stayed one more year, but I digress).

As TAMU wisely noted, Nico's value to the NBA will have to be much more than his ability to score.  Having arguably the 2 best shooters in America on your team, not to mention Joey, Jamal, and Brendan who will at some point all flirt with 40% three point percentages IMO, is quite the sell.  Gives you highly efficient assist opportunities and opens up so much room for you to go to work yourself.  He'll be surrounded by studs anywhere he chooses, but would likely see himself more as "the man" here than the other 3 blue bloods: something he said he wanted in the Ball is Life doc.

MOM mentioned it earlier but that interview with Steppe was really telling.  His main focus is on his relationships with coaches and style of play: Marquette is the only school of the four that he explicitly stated both of those criteria in his "tell me about this school" answer.  At the end of the day that may not matter and he'll choose the more prestigious school, but I've got a good feeling we're a much more serious threat than many on this board feel we are.

4everwarriors

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Re: Nico's potential impact
« Reply #29 on: August 24, 2018, 11:01:42 AM »
Is dis even a question? Ya take da best playas ya kan get and let da peaceasses fall wear dey fall. Of course, dat's assumin' y'all wanna win, hey?
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79Warrior

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Re: Nico's potential impact
« Reply #30 on: August 24, 2018, 11:09:01 AM »
Is dis even a question? Ya take da best playas ya kan get and let da peaceasses fall wear dey fall. Of course, dat's assumin' y'all wanna win, hey?

Seriously, right!

JamilJaeJamailJrJuan

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Re: Nico's potential impact
« Reply #31 on: August 24, 2018, 11:13:21 AM »
You obviously take Nico if you can get him.

By 2019, Markus is a senior, McEwen will be a junior and his first year of eligibility with MU.  Chartouney is gone.  The only guy he'd really be cutting into is maybe McEwen who isn't going anywhere after sitting out a year (maybe he decides to grad transfer after his junior season if Mannion stays for 2 years).

I just don't see any downside. 

I would take the Rick SLU program right now.

mu03eng

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Re: Nico's potential impact
« Reply #32 on: August 24, 2018, 11:16:38 AM »
The idea behind the "Hank set the rebuild back a year" is centered around the idea that he cost us other players who would have stayed longer. It is a fact that Steve Taylor and Gabe Levin transferred mainly because of Henry's commitment. It has been speculated that Henry's presence scared off other potential additions such as Kyle Washington. Personally, if I had a choice between 1 year of Henry or 1 year of Teve/2 years of Levin/2 years of Washington, I would take the latter all day every day. But it's all speculation. There is no way to know that we would have picked up Washington or a comparable player. There is also no reason why you can't land Henry and also convince players like Teve, Levin, and Washingon to sign up, Wojo just couldn't get it done.

There's also no way to quantify the other benefits of landing a 5-star recruit and getting him into the NBA. Without that, maybe the Hausers or Markus don't come here. Maybe we're not even on Mannion's radar because Wojo hadn't put anyone from Marquette into the NBA. Who knows? It's all message board fodder. Personally, I'd rather have the coach who goes for the 5 star recruit then the one who doesn't because he might scare off other players.

I think the other factor(as an advocate of the Henry set us back narrative) is what development didn't take place with other players as a result of the offense being focused on Henry.

For the record, while I think Henry set us back, I still think Wojo did the right thing in taking him....it just caused a lot of raised expectations that were unrealistic and delayed the team returning to greatness by a year, but if a 5 star comes knocking you take him.
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brewcity77

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Re: Nico's potential impact
« Reply #33 on: August 24, 2018, 11:17:04 AM »
I think you have to consider the risk/reward factors.

Henry risks:
  • Potential Transfers: Levin (18/7 as a senior) & Taylor (15/12 as a senior) left.
  • Potential Transfers In Missed: Kyle Washington went to Cincinnati.
  • Potential 2016 Freshmen Missed: Lamar Stevens to Penn State & Kalif Young to Providence.
Henry rewards:
  • Draft Recognition: Could be first lottery pick for Wojo.
  • Wins: Could get below average team to NCAA bubble.
Who knows what would've happened had Henry not come. Levin almost certainly stays, Taylor may have left regardless. I do think Henry impacted Washington's decision. Stevens I suspect still goes to Penn State, but I think Young likely would've come here. At the other end, Wojo didn't get a lottery pick but did get a first rounder. Even Henry couldn't turn that team into a NIT team, much less NCAA.

I'd say Henry was high risk, moderate reward. Had we made the tourney it would be remembered differently, but his presence likely adversely affected the roster without paying off as much as we hoped or maybe expected.

Nico risks:
  • Potential Transfers: Greg seems like the only risk. If McEwen were to look at a transfer, it would likely only be as a grad because Mannion was staying a second year.
  • Potential Transfers in Missed: This seems unlikely because McEwen is already here. Any 2019/20 transfers would likely come in expecting Mannion to be one-and-done.
  • Potential Recruits Missed: With 2 scholarships, landing Mannion & not Bishop or Watts would be fine. Seems unlikely he'd impact the decision of Beekman or other 2020s.
Nico rewards:
  • Draft Recognition: Another potential lottery & at least seemingly likely first round pick.
  • Wins: The hope would be turning a certain NCAA team into a Final Four & National Championship contender.
To me, this seems low risk, high reward. You may have a transfer out, but Elliott could play at the 2 or 3 with Mannion and, having sat a year in residence, McEwen likely only leaves as a grad transfer if Mannion stays. Either way you're covered. Future recruits likely wouldn't be impacted as much because any 2019 transfers would be eligible after he leaves, the same for 2020 freshmen. As far as the reward, bringing someone in to get you to the Final Four or NC is a much bigger payoff than a mere bid. It's worth risking more for that.

Most likely, even with Mannion we don't make a Final Four or NC. The odds for even the best team are against winning those 6 straight games. But in my opinion, it's worth the gamble of losing a player or two because if it does pay off, there's no bigger reward in the sport.
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mu03eng

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Re: Nico's potential impact
« Reply #34 on: August 24, 2018, 11:37:46 AM »
I think you have to consider the risk/reward factors.

Henry risks:
  • Potential Transfers: Levin (18/7 as a senior) & Taylor (15/12 as a senior) left.
  • Potential Transfers In Missed: Kyle Washington went to Cincinnati.
  • Potential 2016 Freshmen Missed: Lamar Stevens to Penn State & Kalif Young to Providence.
Henry rewards:
  • Draft Recognition: Could be first lottery pick for Wojo.
  • Wins: Could get below average team to NCAA bubble.
Who knows what would've happened had Henry not come. Levin almost certainly stays, Taylor may have left regardless. I do think Henry impacted Washington's decision. Stevens I suspect still goes to Penn State, but I think Young likely would've come here. At the other end, Wojo didn't get a lottery pick but did get a first rounder. Even Henry couldn't turn that team into a NIT team, much less NCAA.

I'd say Henry was high risk, moderate reward. Had we made the tourney it would be remembered differently, but his presence likely adversely affected the roster without paying off as much as we hoped or maybe expected.

Nico risks:
  • Potential Transfers: Greg seems like the only risk. If McEwen were to look at a transfer, it would likely only be as a grad because Mannion was staying a second year.
  • Potential Transfers in Missed: This seems unlikely because McEwen is already here. Any 2019/20 transfers would likely come in expecting Mannion to be one-and-done.
  • Potential Recruits Missed: With 2 scholarships, landing Mannion & not Bishop or Watts would be fine. Seems unlikely he'd impact the decision of Beekman or other 2020s.
Nico rewards:
  • Draft Recognition: Another potential lottery & at least seemingly likely first round pick.
  • Wins: The hope would be turning a certain NCAA team into a Final Four & National Championship contender.
To me, this seems low risk, high reward. You may have a transfer out, but Elliott could play at the 2 or 3 with Mannion and, having sat a year in residence, McEwen likely only leaves as a grad transfer if Mannion stays. Either way you're covered. Future recruits likely wouldn't be impacted as much because any 2019 transfers would be eligible after he leaves, the same for 2020 freshmen. As far as the reward, bringing someone in to get you to the Final Four or NC is a much bigger payoff than a mere bid. It's worth risking more for that.

Most likely, even with Mannion we don't make a Final Four or NC. The odds for even the best team are against winning those 6 straight games. But in my opinion, it's worth the gamble of losing a player or two because if it does pay off, there's no bigger reward in the sport.

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brewcity77

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Re: Nico's potential impact
« Reply #35 on: August 24, 2018, 11:39:53 AM »
I’m not quite sure where the narrative that Hank “set us back many years” comes from. Would we have been better without Hank the year Hank was here had we been able to fill his spot with another Matt Heldt? Heldt no.

Here's the argument.

2015-16 The year Hank was here, we would've had Gabe Levin & Steve Taylor instead of Hank. They were both productive players that year at the mid-major level. MU was 97 in kenpom. Levin & Long Beach were 107, Taylor & Toledo were 123. Obviously the competition was tougher for us, but it's reasonable to think we wouldn't have had a big step down since we didn't even make the NIT.

2016-17 The reasonable assumption is we could've had Levin, Kyle Washington, & freshman Kalif Young. Now it's possible Washington's presence could've had the same effect on Levin & Young's decisions, but Levin likely would've stayed this year and left as a grad transfer rather that how he left almost immediately after Henry committed. Having Washington at the 4 next to Luke would've radically changed our defense and overall team ceiling.

2017-18 I assume Levin would've grad transferred, but Washington doing here what he did at Cincy would've made us a comfortable tourney team. Again, a higher team ceiling.

2018-19 & 2019-20 Potentially an upperclassman Kalif Young. He's been decent for Providence, could certainly be a contributor here.

I know this is all revisionist history & am not sure how much I believe would've changed, but Kyle Washington would've been massive had he come here.

Obviously there are other potential consequences. Maybe Theo or Ike don't come, but Theo & Washington do share the same hometown. It's all just a thought exercise, but I think the "set us back many years" narrative is far more logical for Henry than for Nico.
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Mr. Sand-Knit

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Re: Nico's potential impact
« Reply #36 on: August 24, 2018, 11:44:08 AM »
You say that now but if Koby did transfer and we found ourselves without a top tier PG the year after Mannion left I have a suspicion your narrative would place the blame on wojo for not being prepared for the long term.

Sort of like this year??? I think wojo n crew managed to work things out.
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MU82

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Re: Nico's potential impact
« Reply #37 on: August 24, 2018, 02:28:33 PM »
I think you have to consider the risk/reward factors.

Henry risks:
  • Potential Transfers: Levin (18/7 as a senior) & Taylor (15/12 as a senior) left.
  • Potential Transfers In Missed: Kyle Washington went to Cincinnati.
  • Potential 2016 Freshmen Missed: Lamar Stevens to Penn State & Kalif Young to Providence.
Henry rewards:
  • Draft Recognition: Could be first lottery pick for Wojo.
  • Wins: Could get below average team to NCAA bubble.
Who knows what would've happened had Henry not come. Levin almost certainly stays, Taylor may have left regardless. I do think Henry impacted Washington's decision. Stevens I suspect still goes to Penn State, but I think Young likely would've come here. At the other end, Wojo didn't get a lottery pick but did get a first rounder. Even Henry couldn't turn that team into a NIT team, much less NCAA.

I'd say Henry was high risk, moderate reward. Had we made the tourney it would be remembered differently, but his presence likely adversely affected the roster without paying off as much as we hoped or maybe expected.

Nico risks:
  • Potential Transfers: Greg seems like the only risk. If McEwen were to look at a transfer, it would likely only be as a grad because Mannion was staying a second year.
  • Potential Transfers in Missed: This seems unlikely because McEwen is already here. Any 2019/20 transfers would likely come in expecting Mannion to be one-and-done.
  • Potential Recruits Missed: With 2 scholarships, landing Mannion & not Bishop or Watts would be fine. Seems unlikely he'd impact the decision of Beekman or other 2020s.
Nico rewards:
  • Draft Recognition: Another potential lottery & at least seemingly likely first round pick.
  • Wins: The hope would be turning a certain NCAA team into a Final Four & National Championship contender.
To me, this seems low risk, high reward. You may have a transfer out, but Elliott could play at the 2 or 3 with Mannion and, having sat a year in residence, McEwen likely only leaves as a grad transfer if Mannion stays. Either way you're covered. Future recruits likely wouldn't be impacted as much because any 2019 transfers would be eligible after he leaves, the same for 2020 freshmen. As far as the reward, bringing someone in to get you to the Final Four or NC is a much bigger payoff than a mere bid. It's worth risking more for that.

Most likely, even with Mannion we don't make a Final Four or NC. The odds for even the best team are against winning those 6 straight games. But in my opinion, it's worth the gamble of losing a player or two because if it does pay off, there's no bigger reward in the sport.

As we've come to expect, brewski, truly a kick-arse analysis. Thanks.

And thanks to all who have weighed in so far. I obviously thought it would be an interesting discussion (or I wouldn't have started the topic), and I think it has been.

Now, Mr. Wojo, go get us a lad named Nico!
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GGGG

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Re: Nico's potential impact
« Reply #38 on: August 24, 2018, 02:34:13 PM »
I think you have to consider the risk/reward factors.

Henry risks:
  • Potential Transfers: Levin (18/7 as a senior) & Taylor (15/12 as a senior) left.
  • Potential Transfers In Missed: Kyle Washington went to Cincinnati.
  • Potential 2016 Freshmen Missed: Lamar Stevens to Penn State & Kalif Young to Providence.
Henry rewards:
  • Draft Recognition: Could be first lottery pick for Wojo.
  • Wins: Could get below average team to NCAA bubble.
Who knows what would've happened had Henry not come. Levin almost certainly stays, Taylor may have left regardless. I do think Henry impacted Washington's decision. Stevens I suspect still goes to Penn State, but I think Young likely would've come here. At the other end, Wojo didn't get a lottery pick but did get a first rounder. Even Henry couldn't turn that team into a NIT team, much less NCAA.

I'd say Henry was high risk, moderate reward. Had we made the tourney it would be remembered differently, but his presence likely adversely affected the roster without paying off as much as we hoped or maybe expected.

Nico risks:
  • Potential Transfers: Greg seems like the only risk. If McEwen were to look at a transfer, it would likely only be as a grad because Mannion was staying a second year.
  • Potential Transfers in Missed: This seems unlikely because McEwen is already here. Any 2019/20 transfers would likely come in expecting Mannion to be one-and-done.
  • Potential Recruits Missed: With 2 scholarships, landing Mannion & not Bishop or Watts would be fine. Seems unlikely he'd impact the decision of Beekman or other 2020s.
Nico rewards:
  • Draft Recognition: Another potential lottery & at least seemingly likely first round pick.
  • Wins: The hope would be turning a certain NCAA team into a Final Four & National Championship contender.
To me, this seems low risk, high reward. You may have a transfer out, but Elliott could play at the 2 or 3 with Mannion and, having sat a year in residence, McEwen likely only leaves as a grad transfer if Mannion stays. Either way you're covered. Future recruits likely wouldn't be impacted as much because any 2019 transfers would be eligible after he leaves, the same for 2020 freshmen. As far as the reward, bringing someone in to get you to the Final Four or NC is a much bigger payoff than a mere bid. It's worth risking more for that.

Most likely, even with Mannion we don't make a Final Four or NC. The odds for even the best team are against winning those 6 straight games. But in my opinion, it's worth the gamble of losing a player or two because if it does pay off, there's no bigger reward in the sport.


This is well done.

Nukem2

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Re: Nico's potential impact
« Reply #39 on: August 24, 2018, 02:51:04 PM »

This is well done.
Yes, a nice case made by brew city.

MomofMUltiples

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Re: Nico's potential impact
« Reply #40 on: August 24, 2018, 02:55:05 PM »
Here's the argument.

2015-16 The year Hank was here, we would've had Gabe Levin & Steve Taylor instead of Hank. They were both productive players that year at the mid-major level. MU was 97 in kenpom. Levin & Long Beach were 107, Taylor & Toledo were 123. Obviously the competition was tougher for us, but it's reasonable to think we wouldn't have had a big step down since we didn't even make the NIT.

2016-17 The reasonable assumption is we could've had Levin, Kyle Washington, & freshman Kalif Young. Now it's possible Washington's presence could've had the same effect on Levin & Young's decisions, but Levin likely would've stayed this year and left as a grad transfer rather that how he left almost immediately after Henry committed. Having Washington at the 4 next to Luke would've radically changed our defense and overall team ceiling.

2017-18 I assume Levin would've grad transferred, but Washington doing here what he did at Cincy would've made us a comfortable tourney team. Again, a higher team ceiling.

2018-19 & 2019-20 Potentially an upperclassman Kalif Young. He's been decent for Providence, could certainly be a contributor here.

I know this is all revisionist history & am not sure how much I believe would've changed, but Kyle Washington would've been massive had he come here.

Obviously there are other potential consequences. Maybe Theo or Ike don't come, but Theo & Washington do share the same hometown. It's all just a thought exercise, but I think the "set us back many years" narrative is far more logical for Henry than for Nico.

I haven't worked this out on paper, but there could've been other impacts on players had we not had Henry - for example, with Levin and Kyle Washington, would we have had a scholarship open for Markus?  I guess that once Wally was pol-axed, we would have, as that spot remained open until Froling transferred mid-year.  However, I will also note that we recruited Khalif Young after Henry had opted for the draft, and we did have a spot for him (Wally's), and he chose to go to Providence instead.  So I'm not sure that thinking without Henry we could've had Young makes sense.
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bilsu

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Re: Nico's potential impact
« Reply #41 on: August 24, 2018, 03:01:06 PM »
This seems ridiculous to me. We have a chance to add a top 3 PG in the country to a team that includes senior Howard and Hauser. You're telling me you would consider, even for a second, passing on him? And because you're worried someone like Koby McEwan would transfer?
My take on this is the poster is trying to find ways to make himself feel better if we do not get Nico. It is like saying we cooled on a recruit we did not get.

I want Nico. I think we have a decent chance of Nico signing with us. I will be disappointed if we do not get him, but I will not be depressed about it.

wadesworld

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Re: Nico's potential impact
« Reply #42 on: August 24, 2018, 03:01:52 PM »
Here's the argument.

2015-16 The year Hank was here, we would've had Gabe Levin & Steve Taylor instead of Hank. They were both productive players that year at the mid-major level. MU was 97 in kenpom. Levin & Long Beach were 107, Taylor & Toledo were 123. Obviously the competition was tougher for us, but it's reasonable to think we wouldn't have had a big step down since we didn't even make the NIT.

2016-17 The reasonable assumption is we could've had Levin, Kyle Washington, & freshman Kalif Young. Now it's possible Washington's presence could've had the same effect on Levin & Young's decisions, but Levin likely would've stayed this year and left as a grad transfer rather that how he left almost immediately after Henry committed. Having Washington at the 4 next to Luke would've radically changed our defense and overall team ceiling.

2017-18 I assume Levin would've grad transferred, but Washington doing here what he did at Cincy would've made us a comfortable tourney team. Again, a higher team ceiling.

2018-19 & 2019-20 Potentially an upperclassman Kalif Young. He's been decent for Providence, could certainly be a contributor here.

I know this is all revisionist history & am not sure how much I believe would've changed, but Kyle Washington would've been massive had he come here.

Obviously there are other potential consequences. Maybe Theo or Ike don't come, but Theo & Washington do share the same hometown. It's all just a thought exercise, but I think the "set us back many years" narrative is far more logical for Henry than for Nico.

There are transfers every year.  From what I've heard Gabe wanted to get back out to the West Coast.  Maybe it was a convenient excuse for "I don't want to compete for minutes," but given that he was a West Coast kid who started on the West Coast and ended up back on the West Coast, even if it meant moving down to mid or low major status instead of Big East basketball, it makes some sense.

I'm 100% fine with having Steve Taylor not at Marquette for his senior season.  We saw what he brought to the table for Marquette for 3 years, and it was next to nothing.  Really there's no reason at all to think he would've done much to help Marquette.

Those two had awesome stats...against really bad competition...in years they would've already had their eligibility used up (at least in Steve's case...not sure about Gabe).

We can play this game all day.  Okay, so we don't get Hank, those 2 stay, Young and Washington come.  Does Sam Hauser then end up at UW?  And take his brother with him?

I lose absolutely 0 sleep over "losing out on" Kalif Young and Steve Taylor's senior year because of Hank.  Totally fine with me.  I'd take Gabe Levin for 2 years, but I'd take 1 year of Hank over 2 years of Gabe every day.

If it cost Kyle Washington then I'd probably take Kyle Washington.  But I have my doubts  that it did.  And it's possible that if we get Kyle Washington we don't get a Sam and Joey Hauser.

I don't think Hank cost us any years of a rebuild.
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Newsdreams

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Re: Nico's potential impact
« Reply #43 on: August 24, 2018, 03:10:40 PM »
The most pressing concern with one and dones is not their talent, but who are they playing for?  Are they playing for themselves only to improve draft position or playing for the school on the front of the jersey?

Henry was a mix of good and bad because guys stood and watched him at times, but that was also partially because he was clearly the best player.  In this situation, Mannion he would not be head and shoulders above.  How would the seniors and other accept him? Doesn’t Wojo let the players vote on team chemistry possibilities?

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Newsdreams

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Re: Nico's potential impact
« Reply #44 on: August 24, 2018, 03:23:56 PM »
People are always complaining about MU not being a major force in CBB any longer. How will be back to be a major force if we just worry that current players are going to run away because we bring in the best players we can recruit. I bet Al really worried about it  ::). We can always recruit down right? As long as the best player fits what you want to do with the team you take him.
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Frenns Liquor Depot

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Re: Nico's potential impact
« Reply #45 on: August 24, 2018, 03:28:00 PM »
People are always complaining about MU not being a major force in CBB any longer. How will be back to be a major force if we just worry that current players are going to run away because we bring in the best players we can recruit. I bet Al really worried about it  ::). We can always recruit down right? As long as the best player fits what you want to do with the team you take him.

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Re: Nico's potential impact
« Reply #46 on: August 24, 2018, 03:49:08 PM »
The most pressing concern with one and dones is not their talent, but who are they playing for?  Are they playing for themselves only to improve draft position or playing for the school on the front of the jersey?

Henry was a mix of good and bad because guys stood and watched him at times, but that was also partially because he was clearly the best player.  In this situation, Mannion he would not be head and shoulders above.  How would the seniors and other accept him?  Doesn’t Wojo let the players vote on team chemistry possibilities?

First, Henry was a mix of good and bad not because guys stood around and watched him but because an inexperienced coach allowed him to roam the perimeter and jack 3s too often.

Second, Wojo may let the players vote on whether to have steak or chicken but not on whether to offer a top 10 player. Sacar Anim, Greg Elliott, Theo John, etc., will have to adjust to playing with a guy like Mannion - not the other way around.

brewcity77

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Re: Nico's potential impact
« Reply #47 on: August 24, 2018, 04:02:56 PM »
I don't think Hank cost us any years of a rebuild.

I'm not endorsing the case, just outlining it. You can agree or disagree, honestly, it's immaterial now since what happened happened.

If Levin wanted the West Coast only, he wouldn't have come in the first place. Maybe he goes back, but not right away. As far as Washington, I'd take 2 years of him over one of Henry, but as noted, it's immaterial now.

At the end of the day, I'm content where we are. We might have another NCAA bid, maybe even a Sweet 16, but I'm hard pressed to believe it'd be more than that. And who knows what other repercussions may have happened. Maybe the Hausers aren't here, or Markus, or who knows what else. I'm happy where we're at and where we seem to be going.

I think there's a fair argument about Hank's impact on the program. I find it a fun thought exercise. But I'll admit I'm far more excited thinking about the next few years of Marquette basketball than any of the Hank debate.
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barfolomew

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Re: Nico's potential impact
« Reply #48 on: August 24, 2018, 04:34:42 PM »
I think there's a fair argument about Hank's impact on the program. I find it a fun thought exercise. But I'll admit I'm far more excited thinking about the next few years of Marquette basketball than any of the Hank debate.

I agree with the last.
To use Boolean logic:

IF [last few years] > [next few years] = TRUE
THEN [Wojo as Head Coach] = FALSE
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brewcity77

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Re: Nico's potential impact
« Reply #49 on: August 24, 2018, 04:46:57 PM »
I agree with the last.
To use Boolean logic:

IF [last few years] > [next few years] = TRUE
THEN [Wojo as Head Coach] = FALSE

Yeah, if we're unknowingly on a downward trajectory, there's a problem.
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