Little League WS

[MU82]

I have totally enjoyed what I have seen from this year's Little League World Series.

Highly competitive games, great comebacks, good looks at the coaches involved, kids with a lot of personality (and talent), excellent sportsmanship, etc.

A decade or so ago, when ESPN first began to really pump the LLWS, I remember thinking that they were trying to force "little heroes" on the viewing audience. And I always ended up feeling really badly for the kids on the losing teams as they zoomed their cameras in and showed the tears flowing in HD.

Not sure how much ESPN's coverage has changed but I allow that I have. I have now been umpiring this age group for 6 years and also coaching basketball in roughly this age group for 8 years. And I find myself appreciating the LLWS and all its trappings more.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

LL needs to change the WS to 11 year olds.  Very few 12 year old teams are playing on 46'-60' fields anymore, most are playing on 50'-70' or 54'-80' diamonds.  The trend is baseball is to get to "real" baseball earlier.  Around here (WI), the U12 tournament teams can't find 46'-60' tournaments to play in, everything is the bigger fields.  Even at U11, by the middle of summer, they are only playing 54'-70' tournaments.  (This is all outside of Districts/State/Regional LLWS play).

With the USA Baseball bat change last year (lead by Little League), deadening down the bats to be more equivalent to wood bats, LL publicly said that it was for the good of the game, but privately they are terrified of a pitcher getting killed on ESPN by a rocket back at the mound.  A lot of the kids playing are 13, they have late birthdays and are 12 at the cut off date.  Most 13 year olds are playing on a high school field.  Pitchers are throwing the equivalent of 90+ mph and the batters' exit velocity is just as fast.

It's still fun to watch, but all of the rules and regulations put in place by LL, plus the move to kids playing only tournament ball, are keeping a lot of the best youth baseball players out of the LLWS.

[tower912]

Birthday changes are coming. My 11 year old is not going to play LL as a 12 year old, as he will spend his year playing 12u travel ball on 50-70 fields.  I am glad they dialed back the bats.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Birthday changes are coming. My 11 year old is not going to play LL as a 12 year old, as he will spend his year playing 12u travel ball on 50-70 fields.  I am glad they dialed back the bats.

Does your LL offer 50-70?  I know from past comments that he is pretty good, so tournament ball only might make sense, but a lot of kids still want to play league with their friends.

Deadened bats were needed.  We played a few 9U tournaments that were using USSSA or high school rules, so the non-USA Baseball bats were used.  Difference is crazy.

One of the large bat manufacturers estimated that the dead bats would take 10 feet off of the average player's distance and 30 feet off of a superior player's distance.

The next change that will be coming is leagues will go to balls with flatter seams, more like MLB balls than the current LL balls with higher seams.  The tighter, flatter seams will give the hitters back their distance again.  The main issue is price, the flatter seams are much more expense than the high seam balls, but market forces will bring that price down in the next couple of years.

[MU82]

LL needs to change the WS to 11 year olds.  Very few 12 year old teams are playing on 46'-60' fields anymore, most are playing on 50'-70' or 54'-80' diamonds.  The trend is baseball is to get to "real" baseball earlier.  Around here (WI), the U12 tournament teams can't find 46'-60' tournaments to play in, everything is the bigger fields.  Even at U11, by the middle of summer, they are only playing 54'-70' tournaments.  (This is all outside of Districts/State/Regional LLWS play).

With the USA Baseball bat change last year (lead by Little League), deadening down the bats to be more equivalent to wood bats, LL publicly said that it was for the good of the game, but privately they are terrified of a pitcher getting killed on ESPN by a rocket back at the mound.  A lot of the kids playing are 13, they have late birthdays and are 12 at the cut off date.  Most 13 year olds are playing on a high school field.  Pitchers are throwing the equivalent of 90+ mph and the batters' exit velocity is just as fast.

It's still fun to watch, but all of the rules and regulations put in place by LL, plus the move to kids playing only tournament ball, are keeping a lot of the best youth baseball players out of the LLWS.

I ump one 12U league that plays mostly by LL rules in the spring season - no leading, shorter bases, closer mound, etc. They contend that those kids are in transition and are not quite ready for the "big boy" rules. In the fall season, they play on the bigger diamond and are subject to the rules for older kids - balks, steals, leads, etc. All the other 12U leagues I do use the older-kids rules.

While a truly outstanding pitcher definitely dominates those spring seasons, my first-hand experience is that those kids become better players by the fall than their peers in other leagues, and they are better players in the 13U and 14U leagues I umpire. Maybe that's just a coincidence.

All that being said, regardless of the rules they play, everybody involved is playing by the same rules, and I am enjoying this LLWS. I have been very impressed by the quality of play and the spirit of the participants.

[tower912]

Ziggy, our little league  does not offer 50-70.  We are trying to find other leagues interested in doing it for fall ball, but without success.  My son liked the extra 4 feet from the pitchers mound.  Went 12 straight at bats without swinging and missing once.   And he struggled pitching from 46 feet after pitching from 50.   The big adjustment is the baselines.  He is not as fast as he thinks he is.  Bad genetics.
I do enjoy watching the LLWS.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Ziggy, our little league  does not offer 50-70.  We are trying to find other leagues interested in doing it for fall ball, but without success.  My son liked the extra 4 feet from the pitchers mound.  Went 12 straight at bats without swinging and missing once.   And he struggled pitching from 46 feet after pitching from 50.   The big adjustment is the baselines.  He is not as fast as he thinks he is.  Bad genetics.
I do enjoy watching the LLWS.

We have 3 small fields at our complex and 1 60'6-90.  One is an all dirt infield that we share with a college softball team, so the base paths aren't an issue, and the outfield grass was already cut longer.

This past spring, we converted one of our 46-60 fields with grass infield to a convertible field.  Took out the dirt mound, brought in a portable mound and cut the outfield grass back.  Re-fenced the outfield to 8 ft fences from 4 ft (planned maintenance anyway, was a good time to do it).  Gave us so much versatility with scheduling and league sizes.  Biggest cost was moving the sprinkler heads that were on the edge of the infield out to the new grass line.

Next year's project is to take the remaining 46-60 only field and making that the showcase field for minors and majors.

[CTWarrior]

I ump one 12U league that plays mostly by LL rules in the spring season - no leading, shorter bases, closer mound, etc. They contend that those kids are in transition and are not quite ready for the "big boy" rules.

I have managed and umpired both in LL and PONY (which uses 50-70).  In my town PONY has been the more popular league for 20 years, and it is basically a LL playing PONY rules which is regular rules.  It helps the weaker kids even more than the better kids.  They have more time to react and swing at the pitch when they're batting and more time to get in front of he ball when they're fielding.  I much prefer 50-70 with real rules for 11-12 year olds.

[MU82]

I have managed and umpired both in LL and PONY (which uses 50-70).  In my town PONY has been the more popular league for 20 years, and it is basically a LL playing PONY rules which is regular rules.  It helps the weaker kids even more than the better kids.  They have more time to react and swing at the pitch when they're batting and more time to get in front of he ball when they're fielding.  I much prefer 50-70 with real rules for 11-12 year olds.

The main thing I like about those rules is that the 12-year-old pitchers can really dominate weaker 11YO batters when the mound is closer. Plus, with the closer bases and the faster kids, just about every freakin' call is a bang-bang play. Good thing I always get 'em right - ha!

[MU82]

Loved watching the Hawaii team and their coach. Such great sportsmanship and comportment ... as well as a lot of skill.

Very deserving world champs!

[JWags85]

These West Coast teams are something else.  Hawaii and Cali put out some incredibly tough and well rounded teams. Kea (i think) pitched an insane game yesterday, 15Ks.  And then their second best pitcher comes out and tosses a 2 hitter today.  And you combine that with great power hitting.  Just a juggernaut.

[warriorchick]

I love the  trivia they show for the kids as they come up to bat.

One of the kids from Australia said his favorite athlete is Joey Chestnut.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

I love the  trivia they show for the kids as they come up to bat.

One of the kids from Australia said his favorite athlete is Joey Chestnut.

I saw a kid earlier in the week, don't remember where he was from, said his favority athlete was himself.

[Lennys Tap]

I saw a kid earlier in the week, don't remember where he was from, said his favority athlete was himself.

Diogenes has finally found his man!

[wadesworld]

I saw a kid earlier in the week, don't remember where he was from, said his favority athlete was himself.

That would've been the only thing I would've found entertaining about the LLWS.

[MU82]

That would've been the only thing I would've found entertaining about the LLWS.

Why?

Did you watch any of it?

Seriously, I used to feel very indifferent about the LLWS, but I gave it a chance and I like it a lot.

Maybe it's because I've been umpiring this age group for a few years now. Or maybe it's that this is pretty darn good sports theater - better baseball than one might expect, played in an atmosphere that legitimately fosters good sportsmanship.

Hey, I can't stand soccer, wrestling and a few other sports, so I get it. Nobody likes 'em all. But IMHO, this was pretty good stuff.

[wadesworld]

Why?

Did you watch any of it?

Seriously, I used to feel very indifferent about the LLWS, but I gave it a chance and I like it a lot.

Maybe it's because I've been umpiring this age group for a few years now. Or maybe it's that this is pretty darn good sports theater - better baseball than one might expect, played in an atmosphere that legitimately fosters good sportsmanship.

Hey, I can't stand soccer, wrestling and a few other sports, so I get it. Nobody likes 'em all. But IMHO, this was pretty good stuff.

To me it's like watching high school football. Pretty boring if you ask me. I'd much rather watch a random MLB game than a random group of 12 year olds playing baseball, and I find random (aka not a Brewers game) baseball games outside of late September to be very boring.

And not that I'm against good sportsmanship but to be high fiving an opponent as he rounds the bases after a home run in a world championship tournament? Come on now.

[MUDPT]

LL needs to change the WS to 11 year olds.  Very few 12 year old teams are playing on 46'-60' fields anymore, most are playing on 50'-70' or 54'-80' diamonds.  The trend is baseball is to get to "real" baseball earlier.  Around here (WI), the U12 tournament teams can't find 46'-60' tournaments to play in, everything is the bigger fields.  Even at U11, by the middle of summer, they are only playing 54'-70' tournaments.  (This is all outside of Districts/State/Regional LLWS play).

With the USA Baseball bat change last year (lead by Little League), deadening down the bats to be more equivalent to wood bats, LL publicly said that it was for the good of the game, but privately they are terrified of a pitcher getting killed on ESPN by a rocket back at the mound.  A lot of the kids playing are 13, they have late birthdays and are 12 at the cut off date.  Most 13 year olds are playing on a high school field.  Pitchers are throwing the equivalent of 90+ mph and the batters' exit velocity is just as fast.

It's still fun to watch, but all of the rules and regulations put in place by LL, plus the move to kids playing only tournament ball, are keeping a lot of the best youth baseball players out of the LLWS.

Ziggy, do the kids struggle at all going from 50 to 54 and vice versa?  Just curious. And if I remember from previous threads, you're on the East Side? Waunakee or SP?

[dgies9156]

To me it's like watching high school football. Pretty boring if you ask me.

I find the whole thing rather discouraging. The notion of having 12-year-old children playing on national stage in a highly competitive tournament with faux sportsmanship just bothers me. It's pushing children way too hard, way too fast and way too overboard. Maybe, it's because I've seen way too many of the parents of these children whose pride blows youth sports way out of proportion.

Don't get me wrong.  Youth athletics is good when kept in perspective. I enjoy watching local kids when local parents get together in an organized and fun play. Our children played football and soccer and our daughter carried it through to the club level in college. It was recreation, pure and simple.

When recreation gets beyond a community or perhaps a region and culminates in a nationally televised orgy of youth sports, I draw the line. I'll go clean up my canine's effluent or empty the mouse traps before I'll spend a moment on the LLWS.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Ziggy, do the kids struggle at all going from 50 to 54 and vice versa?  Just curious. And if I remember from previous threads, you're on the East Side? Waunakee or SP?

My kid is still playing on small fields, so dont have any first hand knowledge.  But I think for the most part, the kids like it.

And wrong side of town. 

[GGGG]

I find the whole thing rather discouraging. The notion of having 12-year-old children playing on national stage in a highly competitive tournament with faux sportsmanship just bothers me. It's pushing children way too hard, way too fast and way too overboard. Maybe, it's because I've seen way too many of the parents of these children whose pride blows youth sports way out of proportion.

Don't get me wrong.  Youth athletics is good when kept in perspective. I enjoy watching local kids when local parents get together in an organized and fun play. Our children played football and soccer and our daughter carried it through to the club level in college. It was recreation, pure and simple.

When recreation gets beyond a community or perhaps a region and culminates in a nationally televised orgy of youth sports, I draw the line. I'll go clean up my canine's effluent or empty the mouse traps before I'll spend a moment on the LLWS.

+1 million - and my kids all played sports throughout high school.

[tower912]

I like that it is televised.  I like the sportsmanship.  We should all aspire to that.  I am currently coaching that age group and I pick up ideas for my coaching.

I don't  like ESPN  hyping the crap out of it and trying to turn it into something more than it is.

[GGGG]

I don't like LL emphasizing the "world championship" aspect of their organization over the "recreation" aspect.  They are already selecting all star teams and playing tournament games by July 1.

[MU82]

To me it's like watching high school football. Pretty boring if you ask me. I'd much rather watch a random MLB game than a random group of 12 year olds playing baseball, and I find random (aka not a Brewers game) baseball games outside of late September to be very boring.

And not that I'm against good sportsmanship but to be high fiving an opponent as he rounds the bases after a home run in a world championship tournament? Come on now.

We'll agree to disagree, wades. Thanks for sharing your view.

I like that it is televised.  I like the sportsmanship.  We should all aspire to that.  I am currently coaching that age group and I pick up ideas for my coaching.

I don't  like ESPN  hyping the crap out of it and trying to turn it into something more than it is.

This is pretty much where I am also, tower. Thanks for expressing your thoughts.

To criticize it as "faux sportsmanship," as dgies did a few posts back is quite cynical. I found the sportsmanship to be refreshing, and most seemed genuine to me.

But yes, I am always uneasy with lavishing so much attention on little kids. And I rarely like it when ESPN revs up the Hype Machine on anything.

[Benny B]

To criticize it as "faux sportsmanship," as dgies did a few posts back is quite cynical. I found the sportsmanship to be refreshing, and most seemed genuine to me.

I would be utterly shocked if these kids, as soon as they arrive in Williamsport, weren't put through a 30-60 minute indoctrination about what the TV cameras want to see and what will get them expelled from the tournament without warning.