ESPN: Why does BPI rate Marquette higher than Duke or Kentucky?

[NorthernDancerColt]

This is how I see it.  KO had a legitimate beef because the administration at the time hadn't yet figured out that it needed to spend real money on hoops.  I have little doubt that TC truly misses his time at MU.  I'm not sure he actually regrets the decision to go to Indiana but it's close.  And I'm confident that he's shared that wisdom with Wojo who I genuinely believe has taken it to heart.  Doesn't mean he'll never leave.  But it does mean he understands how beautiful his grass is right now.

One thing for Wojo to be wise to.  Remember last year when he got a bit 'thin skinned' about some mild youth comments?  If he thinks the pressure is bad here go try a blue blood.

Exactly. Couldn't agree more. I think THE greatest asset we have is our fan base. We are a reasonable bunch, but still expect you to perform at a level which honors our tradition.

Also, while nobody here would hold it against him if he left for his alma mater, behemoth Duke....I think some comments from his then assistant Chris Carrawell not long after he took the MU job are somewhat telling:  I'm paraphrasing here, but CC basically said that Wojo is the kind of guy that wants to make his own impact on his own unique program, and that people would be wrong to assume he's looking to be an heir apparent.

[burger]

In a previous interview on ESPN.....

A few months after he was fired (like 6).....

He said that the grass was sometimes not greener on the other side......He said he had a good thing going at Marquette and he should not have left.....Alluded to it being more his personality......

His take......

My take.....What personality.....He was pretty much a "prick" with most alumni and fans.....Very "inner circle"-ish.....I will say he did try and motivate/initiate with the students......

[muwarrior69]

Eh.  I could see him leaving for a place like Florida or Texas.  A high level program but not a "blue blood."

Shaka to MU....#donedeal.

[dgies9156]

All right, let's come back to earth now.

1) We have a good returning team and we're all excited. That doesn't mean ESPN needs to act like a bunch of Warrior Fans. To put us where they did before we even played a game is absurd.

2) Let's play some defense before we get too excited.

3) We have no idea how these guys are going to mesh as a team. Over the years, we had good teams with great returning players who, when they took the floor, could not get it together the way they should have.

4) We have an incredibly tough schedule this year. That's good in that I will stay glued to the television but tough in that if we're going for rankings (which mean nothing), we will be out of the Top 25 quickly unless we really are good.

5) Wojo won't be considered for anything until his teams start to play defense. I like the guy but play some defense before you talk about going somewhere else.

Let's start the season before we get too excited. This is not the 1976-1977 Warriors or the 1975-1976 Warriors. Not sure it is even the 2002-2003 Warriors!

[muwarrior69]

Exactly. Couldn't agree more. I think THE greatest asset we have is our fan base. We are a reasonable bunch, but still expect you to perform at a level which honors our tradition.

Also, while nobody here would hold it against him if he left for his alma mater, behemoth Duke....I think some comments from his then assistant Chris Carrawell not long after he took the MU job are somewhat telling:  I'm paraphrasing here, but CC basically said that Wojo is the kind of guy that wants to make his own impact on his own unique program, and that people would be wrong to assume he's looking to be an heir apparent.

+1000  Most schools would die for our attendance even in these down years. I hope we can beat Creighton in attendance this season; of course on the court is a no brainer.

[muwarrior69]

All right, let's come back to earth now.

1) We have a good returning team and we're all excited. That doesn't mean ESPN needs to act like a bunch of Warrior Fans. To put us where they did before we even played a game is absurd.

2) Let's play some defense before we get too excited.

3) We have no idea how these guys are going to mesh as a team. Over the years, we had good teams with great returning players who, when they took the floor, could not get it together the way they should have.

4) We have an incredibly tough schedule this year. That's good in that I will stay glued to the television but tough in that if we're going for rankings (which mean nothing), we will be out of the Top 25 quickly unless we really are good.

5) Wojo won't be considered for anything until his teams start to play defense. I like the guy but play some defense before you talk about going somewhere else.

Let's start the season before we get too excited. This is not the 1976-1977 Warriors or the 1975-1976 Warriors. Not sure it is even the 2002-2003 Warriors!

They had a terrible season and were lucky to get into the tournament.

[DCHoopster]

All right, let's come back to earth now.

1) We have a good returning team and we're all excited. That doesn't mean ESPN needs to act like a bunch of Warrior Fans. To put us where they did before we even played a game is absurd.

2) Let's play some defense before we get too excited.

3) We have no idea how these guys are going to mesh as a team. Over the years, we had good teams with great returning players who, when they took the floor, could not get it together the way they should have.

4) We have an incredibly tough schedule this year. That's good in that I will stay glued to the television but tough in that if we're going for rankings (which mean nothing), we will be out of the Top 25 quickly unless we really are good.

5) Wojo won't be considered for anything until his teams start to play defense. I like the guy but play some defense before you talk about going somewhere else.

Let's start the season before we get too excited. This is not the 1976-1977 Warriors or the 1975-1976 Warriors. Not sure it is even the 2002-2003 Warriors!

Wojo has put together his most talented team so far, might be better the following year.  75-76 team, all the players made the NBA and 76-77 team had the player of
the year.  MU then was Duke, not anymore.  The team will be as good as the point guards take them, chemistry is key, coaching from Wojo, how he handles the 12
players will be interesting.  It is more fun to know right now they have talent, not like the first few years under Wojo.  One final point, 150K a month is not bad at MU.
I am sure he sleeps fine even if he misses a few recruits here and there.  He will get his share.  Just win this year, will help.  The FF will help too, just have to get the
kids on campus.  Pressure after Coach K, who wants that.

[tower912]

It is interesting to watch the reaction to this story.  Some are effectively arguing against it.  Can't play the no respect underdog card now.   For so many who dismiss ESPN this is a problem.  What to do when an organization  you love to use as a punching bag suddenly does an analysis that rates your team highly?  Fun Scoop neuroses.

[muwarrior69]

It is interesting to watch the reaction to this story.  Some are effectively arguing against it.  Can't play the no respect underdog card now.   For so many who dismiss ESPN this is a problem.  What to do when an organization  you love to use as a punching bag suddenly does an analysis that rates your team highly?  Fun Scoop neuroses.

I think most of us are optimistic about this season, but #4 to me seems overly optimistic. Not to mention Joey makes me a little suspect of how they rank teams. How many good players did they miss on the other teams. At least some, outside MU fandom, think will have good season which is nice.

[GGGG]

They had a terrible season and were lucky to get into the tournament.

They didn't have a "terrible season."  They had a terrible stretch toward the end of the season.  But they were ranked all year.

Lucky to get in?  Maybe.  There were teams ranked below them that got in.  (Including Charlotte.)

[tower912]

I think most of us are optimistic about this season, but #4 to me seems overly optimistic. Not to mention Joey makes me a little suspect of how they rank teams. How many good players did they miss on the other teams. At least some, outside MU fandom, think will have good season which is nice.

I, too am optimistic.  There is an adage: 'you are only as good as what you have coming back.'. In the days of transfers, I believe that extends to upperclassmen arrivals.  So, if I were to say we got nothing from our frosh, and could only count on the other 9, what would you think.  IMO, Howard, Chartouny, GE, Anim, Cain, Sam, Morrow, Heldt, and Theo is a tourney team in the 5 seed range.  Joey, Bailey and Ike are a bonus.

[WarriorDad]

Wonder which of those years are not included in “most” of those last 20 years.

Chicos the Chicago sports fan doesn’t differ from Chicos the SoCal boy on his MU coaching preferences.

Mike Deane was underwhelming in some years, but had his moments.  Crean had some down years that he should not have. Buzz's last year.  But by and large the last 20 years have been good for this fan. 

You seem like a bomb thrower at times.  You have accused me of not following the Cubs, and because I said Lebron is better than Michael it is impossible to be a Bulls fan.   I asked you once before, for 49ers fans growing up with Montana as the greatest ever, they are not 49ers fans if they say Brady is better?

[Benny B]

I refuse to get bent out of shape discussing the ranking of Marquette at #4 in a meaningless, absurd, clickbait fodder, computer-predictive modeled algorithm whose results are no more accurate than a 5 year-old banging haphazardly on a keyboard with an Excel spreadsheet from her parents' work opened up because she wants to play Dora the Explorer Dress-up-a-looza.

That being said, how the hell is Wisconsin #8?

[WarriorDad]

KO and TC are poster children for the "grass is always greener" mistake. They both have privately, if not publicly, admitted as much. I'm no "insider", but the smart money is on this fact not being lost on Wojo.

Buzz wanted out and left. He would be in the same club.

Some of you younger guys do not remember that Al wanted out.  He tried on several occasions to leave.  Deane wanted out.  This is how it is at a number of schools.  There is something that creeps into their brains that only the fans at their school act this way, or the administration isn't doing what is needed. 

[Floorslapper]

Doubt Wojo would leave - or be courted to leave - at any point in the next 3 years.  He's 4 years in, has yet to win an NCAA tournament game.  Has program trending in a good way with the talent he and staff have recruited.

However, there aren't many jobs better than the MU job, that would want to pay a guy like Wojo $2M+, that ARE clear cut better jobs (to which Wojo would want to jump), that would throw down a serious offer to a guy without any real NCAA tourney resume.

Recall what Crean and Buzz accomplished in the NCAA before leaving.  Wojo has a ways to go.

It does bode well for MU, that should Wojo replicate Buzz's level of success, that Lovell was all-in and bullish on Wojo from Day 1, and gave him a contract extension for winning the Pre-season NIT 3 years ago.  Lovell has been steadfast in his support and that could prove to be quite prescient/valuable IF Wojo can actually coach.

[Jay Bee]

More meaningful?

A) traveling to a foreign country to find a tribe that has no electricity or knowledge of the civilized world and have them rank D-I teams, or

B) BPI?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

It is interesting to watch the reaction to this story.  Some are effectively arguing against it.  Can't play the no respect underdog card now.   For so many who dismiss ESPN this is a problem.  What to do when an organization  you love to use as a punching bag suddenly does an analysis that rates your team highly?  Fun Scoop neuroses.

To be fair, this isn't really ESPN picking us 4th. It's ESPN running a really janky computer algorithm and reporting the results.

I don't know the ins and out of BPI very well, but just by looking at these results, they vastly overvalue returning production.....and that's coming from a guy who tends to value returning production more than shiny new players.

[NorthernDancerColt]

I refuse to get bent out of shape discussing the ranking of Marquette at #4 in a meaningless, absurd, clickbait fodder, computer-predictive modeled algorithm whose results are no more accurate than a 5 year-old banging haphazardly on a keyboard with an Excel spreadsheet from her parents' work opened up because she wants to play Dora the Explorer Dress-up-a-looza.

That being said, how the hell is Wisconsin #8?

Maybe the greatest scene in recent comedy movie history is Jason Sudeikis's pre-trip hair-style request from We're the Millers as he's attempting to change his look from drug-dealer casual to suburban dolt (designed to fool the DEA/Customs peeps at the Mexican border).......

"give me something that says I get up at 5am every morning and commute 3 hours round-trip to some desk job I hate for some jag-off boss that expects me to lick his balls all day....so I can keep my wife up to her eyeballs with self help books and my kids decked out in DORA THE EXPLORER gear...all until I get the courage to put a shotgun in my mouth" {Joe WorkingStiff seated nearby points to his hair and goes, "riiight heeere."}

[Loose Cannon]

I refuse to get bent out of shape discussing the ranking of Marquette at #4 in a meaningless, absurd, clickbait fodder, computer-predictive modeled algorithm whose results are no more accurate than a 5 year-old banging haphazardly on a keyboard with an Excel spreadsheet from her parents' work opened up because she wants to play Dora the Explorer Dress-up-a-looza.

That being said, how the hell is Wisconsin #8?

Yep Benny, smarter than the average bear.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Though thinking about this, the best part of these results is that Badger fans can't get excited about being ranked #8 because if they do that means they believe that we are ranked #4 

[GGGG]

More meaningful?

A) traveling to a foreign country to find a tribe that has no electricity or knowledge of the civilized world and have them rank D-I teams, or

B) BPI?

Lol. This is good.

[Coleman]

If you are talking about straight statistics, sure.  But if you are successful in a top tier program that provides you with just about everything you would ever want (including pay), and you have demonstrated that you are honored and humbled by being a part one of the most important programs in NCAA basketball history, why would you leave for anything other than the arguably the top job in NCAA basketball, which also happens to be your alma mater?

Where else would Wojo go?  North Carolina? Kansas?

Lots of places besides Duke that Wojo would leave Marquette for. It is naive to think otherwise.

However, I doubt at this juncture many, if any, of those places would want him. A Final Four run could certainly change that.

[Coleman]

This ranking is certifiably insane. We are, at best, a fringe Top 25 team (#20 through RV)

My expectations remain the same...just make the god d*mn NCAA tournament

[Newsdreams]

No

I thought teal would not be necessary and I imagine the same for the yes answer

[WhiteTrash]

Doubt Wojo would leave - or be courted to leave - at any point in the next 3 years.  He's 4 years in, has yet to win an NCAA tournament game.  Has program trending in a good way with the talent he and staff have recruited.

However, there aren't many jobs better than the MU job, that would want to pay a guy like Wojo $2M+, that ARE clear cut better jobs (to which Wojo would want to jump), that would throw down a serious offer to a guy without any real NCAA tourney resume.

Recall what Crean and Buzz accomplished in the NCAA before leaving.  Wojo has a ways to go.

It does bode well for MU, that should Wojo replicate Buzz's level of success, that Lovell was all-in and bullish on Wojo from Day 1, and gave him a contract extension for winning the Pre-season NIT 3 years ago.  Lovell has been steadfast in his support and that could prove to be quite prescient/valuable IF Wojo can actually coach.

I agree with all of this. Friends who attended other schools with good to excellent basketball teams (KU, Nova, UofI, etc.) think Wojo has been failure at MU and think MU can do better. Granted, these are not ADs and I disagree with them but I don't have a lot to defend Wojo on. The perception is Wojo is another in a long line of disappointing Duke assistants.

The bigger point is Wojo would be a hard sell to fan bases of other big time basketball programs and not likely to get a look any time soon. (just my uninformed internet opinion)