MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Tha Hound on July 29, 2018, 11:44:05 AM
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http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/24186505
Discuss.
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ALL ABOARD THE HYPE TRAIN
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I don't know about 4th in the country, but if we can have a top 100 defense as projected, 10-15 shouldn't be outside the realm of possibility.
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So many weapons. Love this roster.
Borzello didn't mention Joey, but he should have. Big time.
http://latenighthoops.com/projecting-marquettes-2018-19-usage/#.W13y99VKjIU
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Certainly can't hurt Recruiting.
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So many weapons. Love this roster.
Borzello didn't mention Joey, but he should have. Big time.
http://latenighthoops.com/projecting-marquettes-2018-19-usage/#.W13y99VKjIU
Then he would have to have us above Kansas, no?
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Well if we go far this year, those that aren't Wojo fans will get their wish as he will leave. I'm going to enjoy the ride, hope we finally have a lifer.
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Well if we go far this year, those that aren't Wojo fans will get their wish as he will leave. I'm going to enjoy the ride, hope we finally have a lifer.
Leave for...where?
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Leave for...where?
Another job.
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Another job.
wades asked "where," not "what."
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So, if we don't get to final 4 Wojo underperforms
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Another job.
lol.....save the Nostradamus stuff for the lottery.
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So, if we don't get to final 4 Wojo underperforms
I guess so. This thread makes no sense. If Wojo willing to go (I don't think he is) then MU needs to make a change ASAP. He is fortunate to have his job.
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wades asked "where," not "what."
Does anyone honestly think that if he is successful here, Wojo would leave for anywhere other than Duke?
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Does anyone honestly think that if he is successful here, Wojo would leave for anywhere other than Duke?
I do. This is college basketball. He has more chance going somewhere else in his career than either staying here for life or going to duke.
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I do. This is college basketball. He has more chance going somewhere else in his career than either staying here for life or going to duke.
If you are talking about straight statistics, sure. But if you are successful in a top tier program that provides you with just about everything you would ever want (including pay), and you have demonstrated that you are honored and humbled by being a part one of the most important programs in NCAA basketball history, why would you leave for anything other than the arguably the top job in NCAA basketball, which also happens to be your alma mater?
Where else would Wojo go? North Carolina? Kansas?
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How predictable is BPI anyway? Does anyone have the faintest clue what kind of statistical analysis goes into the model (beyond vague statements about the importance of returning players)? How does it compare to models like Pomeroy or Value Add?
For all I know, ESPN's primary goal in developing and promoting BPI is to create clickbait for college basketball fans. But I'm 100% on board with a Marquette Final Four appearance this season.
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Wow. BPI projects MU 4th. And who would have guessed Wisconsin 8th? Will be interesting to look back at this projection, come the end of the season.
What does seem clear, is that this MU team is expected to be really good this season. The talent is there, and that's props to the coaching staff. Now the litmus test comes down to, can the coach, coach?
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If you are talking about straight statistics, sure. But if you are successful in a top tier program that provides you with just about everything you would ever want (including pay), and you have demonstrated that you are honored and humbled by being a part one of the most important programs in NCAA basketball history, why would you leave for anything other than the arguably the top job in NCAA basketball, which also happens to be your alma mater?
Where else would Wojo go? North Carolina? Kansas?
Eh. I could see him leaving for a place like Florida or Texas. A high level program but not a "blue blood."
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Eh. I could see him leaving for a place like Florida or Texas. A high level program but not a "blue blood."
I think it's again worth asking where, though. What program is big enough that has a coach who might be on the hot seat? I don't see Wojo going to a Big Ten or Big East job. Maybe Maryland, but I don't think Turgeon is on the hot seat unless they are terrible.
Are there any ACC teams (aside from Duke/UNC) that are high enough level with coaches on the hot seat? Virginia, Louisville, Notre Dame, or NC State might be big enough, but I don't think anyone is on the hot seat or likely leaving. Syracuse I can't see going outside their own family even if Boeheim leaves. Maybe Wake Forest if Danny Manning gets fired?
In the SEC, Florida, Tennessee, Arkansas, and LSU might be big enough jobs, but none of their coaches are likely going anywhere. Nowhere else seems possible. Same with Texas or Oklahoma in the Big 12. Can't see Smart leaving. Maybe Krueger does, that might be possible, but I don't think he's in any risk of losing his job.
I don't think he'd go to a bottom of a big league job, I think it would take another top-25 type program. Just not sure any of those are going to be cutting ties with their coaches this year.
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I don't think he'd go to a bottom of a big league job, I think it would take another top-25 type program. Just not sure any of those are going to be cutting ties with their coaches this year.
But if Marquette is a top 25 program, why would he leave to go to another one?
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I know many are still scarred by TC and Buzz leaving, but believe it or not, sometimes coaches stay at their current jobs. And not just the blue bloods.
Generally as long as a coach is happy at a Marquette level program, he will not look leave for another job unless it is one of the top jobs in the country. Since returning to relevancy, we haven't had that, so we assume its impossible.
Wojo may stay. Wojo may go. I could be wrong but I think unless a blue blood comes calling, or Wojo grows unhappy at Marquette, I think he will stick around for awhile.
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Does anyone honestly think that if he is successful here, Wojo would leave for anywhere other than Duke?
I do. But I don’t think they’re programs that will A) have an opening after this season and B) warrant giving Wojo their job after a single good season at MU.
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Certainly can't hurt Recruiting.
Haven’t you heard? We were in the NIT last year—-some on here believe that’s too large of a hurdle to overcome.
Nothing can help recruiting at this point.
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I think Wojo is genuinely happy at MU and has seen what coach K's thinking and feelings that he considered when the NBA teams came a' calling.
They both have similar backgrounds and are both Blue collar guys and are loyal..
I think there is only one team that might have a chance, and it still would be a difficult decision
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This is kind of what I was getting at in the 'nobody has to do anything heroic' thread. MU's talent is there. Size, experience, shooting, depth. Much can still go wrong, but if everyone on the team is no better or worse than we think, there is even more that can go right.
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If Wojo leaves after some success this season, this whole slow & steady build will have been for naught.
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I think it's again worth asking where, though. What program is big enough that has a coach who might be on the hot seat? I don't see Wojo going to a Big Ten or Big East job. Maybe Maryland, but I don't think Turgeon is on the hot seat unless they are terrible.
Are there any ACC teams (aside from Duke/UNC) that are high enough level with coaches on the hot seat? Virginia, Louisville, Notre Dame, or NC State might be big enough, but I don't think anyone is on the hot seat or likely leaving. Syracuse I can't see going outside their own family even if Boeheim leaves. Maybe Wake Forest if Danny Manning gets fired?
In the SEC, Florida, Tennessee, Arkansas, and LSU might be big enough jobs, but none of their coaches are likely going anywhere. Nowhere else seems possible. Same with Texas or Oklahoma in the Big 12. Can't see Smart leaving. Maybe Krueger does, that might be possible, but I don't think he's in any risk of losing his job.
I don't think he'd go to a bottom of a big league job, I think it would take another top-25 type program. Just not sure any of those are going to be cutting ties with their coaches this year.
I think this is correct on July 28, 2018.
However, every year (more in recent years) there is a scandal, unforeseen departure, etc. which sets the coaching ripple effect into motion.
My only concern is continuing to go hard after 5 and high 4* star kids only to come up empty. I’ve heard Wojo say “why not Marquette?” and saying we will take a back seat to no one. However, when the actions don’t meet the words and you are implementing plan b/c, perhaps your perception of the situation changes.
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I know many are still scarred by TC and Buzz leaving, but believe it or not, sometimes coaches stay at their current jobs. And not just the blue bloods.
Generally as long as a coach is happy at a Marquette level program, he will not look leave for another job unless it is one of the top jobs in the country. Since returning to relevancy, we haven't had that, so we assume its impossible.
Wojo may stay. Wojo may go. I could be wrong but I think unless a blue blood comes calling, or Wojo grows unhappy at Marquette, I think he will stick around for awhile.
Agree fully. Ultimately it doesn’t come down to a simple “what job is better.” Many factors at play including personal ones.
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Haven’t you heard? We were in the NIT last year—-some on here believe that’s too large of a hurdle to overcome.
Nothing can help recruiting at this point.
Yeah, I remember those Posts My guess is that very, very, good players have Two major considerations:
1) Playing Time
2) Helping me into the Pro's.
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I think this is correct on July 28, 2018.
However, every year (more in recent years) there is a scandal, unforeseen departure, etc. which sets the coaching ripple effect into motion.
My only concern is continuing to go hard after 5 and high 4* star kids only to come up empty. I’ve heard Wojo say “why not Marquette?” and saying we will take a back seat to no one. However, when the actions don’t meet the words and you are implementing plan b/c, perhaps your perception of the situation changes.
This is a great point...I think if Wojo leaves, this will be why...recruiting, and striking out on the top guys too much. That's what ultimately drove TC to Indiana was losing Iman Shumpert when he had him basically wrapped up, before he "switched" to Georgia Tech late.
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If you are talking about straight statistics, sure. But if you are successful in a top tier program that provides you with just about everything you would ever want (including pay), and you have demonstrated that you are honored and humbled by being a part one of the most important programs in NCAA basketball history, why would you leave for anything other than the arguably the top job in NCAA basketball, which also happens to be your alma mater?
Where else would Wojo go? North Carolina? Kansas?
I’m not saying straight stats—just what is likely. Let’s pretend that his dream is duke and someone else gets it. Or he gets put on the hot seat at some point. Or like others referenced he gets frustrated by recruiting. I am sure Wojo loves his current situation but there are so many things that can change between now and the end of his career that make me less confident than you are.
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Eh. I could see him leaving for a place like Florida or Texas. A high level program but not a "blue blood."
if salaries remain equal, other than the weather(and maybe the coeds ;)) MU is a better place to be, imho of course. most other top tier programs have to compete with football. at MU, men's basketball is "football". our fans are as good as any or better. AND, we have probably one of the best arenas to play in. you bring MU to the top 10-15 or better, it will get all the national attention one needs-just win baby!
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So basically, the Preseason NIT is for the national championship?
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Has there actually been any indication that Wojo is frustrated with the recruiting situation? QG hurt because we were pretty much guaranteeing that he'd start day one and we were there right up to the end. But missing out on Carton, Watts, and likely Mannion when we already have one pg in the fold for the next three years isn't exactly a huge loss. Hagans was a unique situation that we attempted to jump on and lost out to UK, no shame in that. We don't have a lot of playing time to offer for 19 recruits. Very different story for 20 recruits. Let's see how Wojo does with that class before declaring that he'll leave because he can't get the blue chippers.
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Wow. What a thread.
If Wojo doesn't go to the FF, he has underachieved. If he does go to the FF, he gowne.
Meanwhile ... MU 4th in the country? Wisconsin 8th? Duke 9th? Illinois 21st? Kentucky 22nd?Northwestern 26th? St. John's 27th?
All righty then. Ya know it's summer when this stuff is out there.
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Wow. What a thread.
If Wojo doesn't go to the FF, he has underachieved. If he does go to the FF, he gowne.
MUScoop. We're not happy unless we are miserable.
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Hype for this season is so high, if I recall this happened a couple times before and that season did not go very well...cant wait but Im gonna have to stay tempered, such is the life of a MU fan.
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MUScoop. We're not happy unless we are miserable.
(https://www.londontheatredirect.com/images/Event/LesMiserables/Les-Miserables-13545.jpg)
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Wow. What a thread.
If Wojo doesn't go to the FF, he has underachieved. If he does go to the FF, he gowne.
Meanwhile ... MU 4th in the country? Wisconsin 8th? Duke 9th? Illinois 21st? Kentucky 22nd?Northwestern 26th? St. John's 27th?
All righty then. Ya know it's summer when this stuff is out there.
I think what this shows is that this metric really values continuity. Virtually everyone is a returning player, and the notable guys that aren't returning are either highly regarded freshmen (Hauser, Bailey) or performed at a high-level in top-10 conferences (Morrow, Chartouny).
The article also notes it projects us to have the #1 offense. We return Hauser and Howard, but even our lower impact guys (Heldt, Cain, Sacar, Cain) are good to great in terms of offensive efficiency. I'm usually wearing the blue and rose gold goggles, but this is too high even for me. That said, I can understand how a system would slant to a team like us. We return a ton, bring in experienced production, and have highly regarded freshmen. And our offense has been elite the last two years and even losing Rowsey we shouldn't see much of a dropoff.
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I think what this shows is that this metric really values continuity. Virtually everyone is a returning player, and the notable guys that aren't returning are either highly regarded freshmen (Hauser, Bailey) or performed at a high-level in top-10 conferences (Morrow, Chartouny).
The article also notes it projects us to have the #1 offense. We return Hauser and Howard, but even our lower impact guys (Heldt, Cain, Sacar, Cain) are good to great in terms of offensive efficiency. I'm usually wearing the blue and rose gold goggles, but this is too high even for me. That said, I can understand how a system would slant to a team like us. We return a ton, bring in experienced production, and have highly regarded freshmen. And our offense has been elite the last two years and even losing Rowsey we shouldn't see much of a dropoff.
Oh, I think we're gonna be good this season. I haven't made my "official prediction" yet, as some have, because I want to see how our health is going into the season, if we have any McKay-type late transfers, etc. But I expect us to be a very good team.
Still, all of these ratings systems crack me up.
This one says we're the No. 4 team in the country. Meanwhile, Lunardi has us barely sneaking into the tournament and having to play at Dayton. The reality almost certainly is somewhere between those extremes.
I try not to get wrapped up in them, as I know they are just conversation starters. But they do crack me up.
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So, if we don't get to final 4 Wojo underperforms
Yes
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Yes
No
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wades asked "where," not "what."
Impossible to predict what will be open. In my view reading our own fans expectations, the idea he has to beg people to come out to some games, how fans were pissy about the NIT, the level of misery wears people down. Maybe it is this way with every school, but we sure act entitled at times. Fully onboard the Wojo train and have been very pleased with MU coaches for most of the last 20 years.
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Impossible to predict what will be open. In my view reading our own fans expectations, the idea he has to beg people to come out to some games, how fans were pissy about the NIT, the level of misery wears people down. Maybe it is this way with every school, but we sure act entitled at times. Fully onboard the Wojo train and have been very pleased with MU coaches for most of the last 20 years.
Wonder which of those years are not included in “most” of those last 20 years.
Chicos the Chicago sports fan doesn’t differ from Chicos the SoCal boy on his MU coaching preferences.
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Oh, I think we're gonna be good this season. I haven't made my "official prediction" yet, as some have, because I want to see how our health is going into the season, if we have any McKay-type late transfers, etc. But I expect us to be a very good team.
Still, all of these ratings systems crack me up.
This one says we're the No. 4 team in the country. Meanwhile, Lunardi has us barely sneaking into the tournament and having to play at Dayton. The reality almost certainly is somewhere between those extremes.
I try not to get wrapped up in them, as I know they are just conversation starters. But they do crack me up.
That's where I'm at. Honestly, the "ahead of Duke and Kentucky" is a big flag for me that they might have some issues with their calculation methods. Duke? Maybe, they are placing a lot in the hands of four freshmen when this year's freshman class is underwhelming. Kentucky, on the other hand, returns more than they typically do, still has talent from the freshman ranks, and also adds Reid Travis.
I do think Lunardi is just as batcrap crazy, though. At a guess, I'd say somewhere in the 10-20 range, and 3-5 seed feels not that far off the mark.
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I know many are still scarred by TC and Buzz leaving, but believe it or not, sometimes coaches stay at their current jobs. And not just the blue bloods.
Generally as long as a coach is happy at a Marquette level program, he will not look leave for another job unless it is one of the top jobs in the country. Since returning to relevancy, we haven't had that, so we assume its impossible.
Wojo may stay. Wojo may go. I could be wrong but I think unless a blue blood comes calling, or Wojo grows unhappy at Marquette, I think he will stick around for awhile.
KO and TC are poster children for the "grass is always greener" mistake. They both have privately, if not publicly, admitted as much. I'm no "insider", but the smart money is on this fact not being lost on Wojo.
World-class arena: check. Rich basketball tradition/history: check.Total support of the administration: check. Top-tier conference and Television contract/exposure: check. Knowledgeable and passionate fan base: check.
I understand people not wanting to get caught up in delusions of grandeur or getting lost in our fabulous history, but we are a pretty darn proud and solid program. I truly believe Wojo feels blessed to be our coach. Strikes me as wanting to make his own mark on the college basketball world. I think he will make it here. And stay here.
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I think this will be a good year. #4? Please. Top 3 in conference, 5 seed overall, outer edge of the top 25, assuming we don't lose too many early.
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I think what this shows is that this metric really values continuity. Virtually everyone is a returning player, and the notable guys that aren't returning are either highly regarded freshmen (Hauser, Bailey) or performed at a high-level in top-10 conferences (Morrow, Chartouny).
The article also notes it projects us to have the #1 offense. We return Hauser and Howard, but even our lower impact guys (Heldt, Cain, Sacar, Cain) are good to great in terms of offensive efficiency. I'm usually wearing the blue and rose gold goggles, but this is too high even for me. That said, I can understand how a system would slant to a team like us. We return a ton, bring in experienced production, and have highly regarded freshmen. And our offense has been elite the last two years and even losing Rowsey we shouldn't see much of a dropoff.
#1 on Offense seems a tad high, but we would have to be a "lock" on a top ten ranking. #90 on D.....I know this is still one giant leap for MU-kind given our basement-dwelling recent history....but GE, Cain, and Theo have us on the defensive uptick, while Morrow's addition will further improve us on both ends. We will be worse than #1 on O and better than #90 on D. I know I'm getting all Price-Is-Right on you guys with my predictions/bids, but I believe we will improve even more significantly on D than the metrics suggest.
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KO and TC are poster children for the "grass is always greener" mistake. They both have privately, if not publicly, admitted as much. I'm no "insider", but the smart money is on this fact not being lost on Wojo.
World-class arena: check. Rich basketball tradition/history: check.Total support of the administration: check. Top-tier conference and Television contract/exposure: check. Knowledgeable and passionate fan base: check.
I understand people not wanting to get caught up in delusions of grandeur or getting lost in our fabulous history, but we are a pretty darn proud and solid program. I truly believe Wojo feels blessed to be our coach. Strikes me as wanting to make his own mark on the college basketball world. I think he will make it here. And stay here.
This is how I see it. KO had a legitimate beef because the administration at the time hadn't yet figured out that it needed to spend real money on hoops. I have little doubt that TC truly misses his time at MU. I'm not sure he actually regrets the decision to go to Indiana but it's close. And I'm confident that he's shared that wisdom with Wojo who I genuinely believe has taken it to heart. Doesn't mean he'll never leave. But it does mean he understands how beautiful his grass is right now.
One thing for Wojo to be wise to. Remember last year when he got a bit 'thin skinned' about some mild youth comments? If he thinks the pressure is bad here go try a blue blood.
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This is how I see it. KO had a legitimate beef because the administration at the time hadn't yet figured out that it needed to spend real money on hoops. I have little doubt that TC truly misses his time at MU. I'm not sure he actually regrets the decision to go to Indiana but it's close. And I'm confident that he's shared that wisdom with Wojo who I genuinely believe has taken it to heart. Doesn't mean he'll never leave. But it does mean he understands how beautiful his grass is right now.
One thing for Wojo to be wise to. Remember last year when he got a bit 'thin skinned' about some mild youth comments? If he thinks the pressure is bad here go try a blue blood.
Exactly. Couldn't agree more. I think THE greatest asset we have is our fan base. We are a reasonable bunch, but still expect you to perform at a level which honors our tradition.
Also, while nobody here would hold it against him if he left for his alma mater, behemoth Duke....I think some comments from his then assistant Chris Carrawell not long after he took the MU job are somewhat telling: I'm paraphrasing here, but CC basically said that Wojo is the kind of guy that wants to make his own impact on his own unique program, and that people would be wrong to assume he's looking to be an heir apparent.
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In a previous interview on ESPN.....
A few months after he was fired (like 6).....
He said that the grass was sometimes not greener on the other side......He said he had a good thing going at Marquette and he should not have left.....Alluded to it being more his personality......
His take......
My take.....What personality.....He was pretty much a "prick" with most alumni and fans.....Very "inner circle"-ish.....I will say he did try and motivate/initiate with the students......
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Eh. I could see him leaving for a place like Florida or Texas. A high level program but not a "blue blood."
Shaka to MU....#donedeal.
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All right, let's come back to earth now.
1) We have a good returning team and we're all excited. That doesn't mean ESPN needs to act like a bunch of Warrior Fans. To put us where they did before we even played a game is absurd.
2) Let's play some defense before we get too excited.
3) We have no idea how these guys are going to mesh as a team. Over the years, we had good teams with great returning players who, when they took the floor, could not get it together the way they should have.
4) We have an incredibly tough schedule this year. That's good in that I will stay glued to the television but tough in that if we're going for rankings (which mean nothing), we will be out of the Top 25 quickly unless we really are good.
5) Wojo won't be considered for anything until his teams start to play defense. I like the guy but play some defense before you talk about going somewhere else.
Let's start the season before we get too excited. This is not the 1976-1977 Warriors or the 1975-1976 Warriors. Not sure it is even the 2002-2003 Warriors!
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Exactly. Couldn't agree more. I think THE greatest asset we have is our fan base. We are a reasonable bunch, but still expect you to perform at a level which honors our tradition.
Also, while nobody here would hold it against him if he left for his alma mater, behemoth Duke....I think some comments from his then assistant Chris Carrawell not long after he took the MU job are somewhat telling: I'm paraphrasing here, but CC basically said that Wojo is the kind of guy that wants to make his own impact on his own unique program, and that people would be wrong to assume he's looking to be an heir apparent.
+1000 Most schools would die for our attendance even in these down years. I hope we can beat Creighton in attendance this season; of course on the court is a no brainer.
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All right, let's come back to earth now.
1) We have a good returning team and we're all excited. That doesn't mean ESPN needs to act like a bunch of Warrior Fans. To put us where they did before we even played a game is absurd.
2) Let's play some defense before we get too excited.
3) We have no idea how these guys are going to mesh as a team. Over the years, we had good teams with great returning players who, when they took the floor, could not get it together the way they should have.
4) We have an incredibly tough schedule this year. That's good in that I will stay glued to the television but tough in that if we're going for rankings (which mean nothing), we will be out of the Top 25 quickly unless we really are good.
5) Wojo won't be considered for anything until his teams start to play defense. I like the guy but play some defense before you talk about going somewhere else.
Let's start the season before we get too excited. This is not the 1976-1977 Warriors or the 1975-1976 Warriors. Not sure it is even the 2002-2003 Warriors!
They had a terrible season and were lucky to get into the tournament.
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All right, let's come back to earth now.
1) We have a good returning team and we're all excited. That doesn't mean ESPN needs to act like a bunch of Warrior Fans. To put us where they did before we even played a game is absurd.
2) Let's play some defense before we get too excited.
3) We have no idea how these guys are going to mesh as a team. Over the years, we had good teams with great returning players who, when they took the floor, could not get it together the way they should have.
4) We have an incredibly tough schedule this year. That's good in that I will stay glued to the television but tough in that if we're going for rankings (which mean nothing), we will be out of the Top 25 quickly unless we really are good.
5) Wojo won't be considered for anything until his teams start to play defense. I like the guy but play some defense before you talk about going somewhere else.
Let's start the season before we get too excited. This is not the 1976-1977 Warriors or the 1975-1976 Warriors. Not sure it is even the 2002-2003 Warriors!
Wojo has put together his most talented team so far, might be better the following year. 75-76 team, all the players made the NBA and 76-77 team had the player of
the year. MU then was Duke, not anymore. The team will be as good as the point guards take them, chemistry is key, coaching from Wojo, how he handles the 12
players will be interesting. It is more fun to know right now they have talent, not like the first few years under Wojo. One final point, 150K a month is not bad at MU.
I am sure he sleeps fine even if he misses a few recruits here and there. He will get his share. Just win this year, will help. The FF will help too, just have to get the
kids on campus. Pressure after Coach K, who wants that.
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It is interesting to watch the reaction to this story. Some are effectively arguing against it. Can't play the no respect underdog card now. For so many who dismiss ESPN this is a problem. What to do when an organization you love to use as a punching bag suddenly does an analysis that rates your team highly? Fun Scoop neuroses.
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It is interesting to watch the reaction to this story. Some are effectively arguing against it. Can't play the no respect underdog card now. For so many who dismiss ESPN this is a problem. What to do when an organization you love to use as a punching bag suddenly does an analysis that rates your team highly? Fun Scoop neuroses.
I think most of us are optimistic about this season, but #4 to me seems overly optimistic. Not to mention Joey makes me a little suspect of how they rank teams. How many good players did they miss on the other teams. At least some, outside MU fandom, think will have good season which is nice.
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They had a terrible season and were lucky to get into the tournament.
They didn't have a "terrible season." They had a terrible stretch toward the end of the season. But they were ranked all year.
Lucky to get in? Maybe. There were teams ranked below them that got in. (Including Charlotte.)
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I think most of us are optimistic about this season, but #4 to me seems overly optimistic. Not to mention Joey makes me a little suspect of how they rank teams. How many good players did they miss on the other teams. At least some, outside MU fandom, think will have good season which is nice.
I, too am optimistic. There is an adage: 'you are only as good as what you have coming back.'. In the days of transfers, I believe that extends to upperclassmen arrivals. So, if I were to say we got nothing from our frosh, and could only count on the other 9, what would you think. IMO, Howard, Chartouny, GE, Anim, Cain, Sam, Morrow, Heldt, and Theo is a tourney team in the 5 seed range. Joey, Bailey and Ike are a bonus.
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Wonder which of those years are not included in “most” of those last 20 years.
Chicos the Chicago sports fan doesn’t differ from Chicos the SoCal boy on his MU coaching preferences.
Mike Deane was underwhelming in some years, but had his moments. Crean had some down years that he should not have. Buzz's last year. But by and large the last 20 years have been good for this fan.
You seem like a bomb thrower at times. You have accused me of not following the Cubs, and because I said Lebron is better than Michael it is impossible to be a Bulls fan. I asked you once before, for 49ers fans growing up with Montana as the greatest ever, they are not 49ers fans if they say Brady is better?
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I refuse to get bent out of shape discussing the ranking of Marquette at #4 in a meaningless, absurd, clickbait fodder, computer-predictive modeled algorithm whose results are no more accurate than a 5 year-old banging haphazardly on a keyboard with an Excel spreadsheet from her parents' work opened up because she wants to play Dora the Explorer Dress-up-a-looza.
That being said, how the hell is Wisconsin #8?
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KO and TC are poster children for the "grass is always greener" mistake. They both have privately, if not publicly, admitted as much. I'm no "insider", but the smart money is on this fact not being lost on Wojo.
Buzz wanted out and left. He would be in the same club.
Some of you younger guys do not remember that Al wanted out. He tried on several occasions to leave. Deane wanted out. This is how it is at a number of schools. There is something that creeps into their brains that only the fans at their school act this way, or the administration isn't doing what is needed.
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Doubt Wojo would leave - or be courted to leave - at any point in the next 3 years. He's 4 years in, has yet to win an NCAA tournament game. Has program trending in a good way with the talent he and staff have recruited.
However, there aren't many jobs better than the MU job, that would want to pay a guy like Wojo $2M+, that ARE clear cut better jobs (to which Wojo would want to jump), that would throw down a serious offer to a guy without any real NCAA tourney resume.
Recall what Crean and Buzz accomplished in the NCAA before leaving. Wojo has a ways to go.
It does bode well for MU, that should Wojo replicate Buzz's level of success, that Lovell was all-in and bullish on Wojo from Day 1, and gave him a contract extension for winning the Pre-season NIT 3 years ago. Lovell has been steadfast in his support and that could prove to be quite prescient/valuable IF Wojo can actually coach.
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More meaningful?
A) traveling to a foreign country to find a tribe that has no electricity or knowledge of the civilized world and have them rank D-I teams, or
B) BPI?
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It is interesting to watch the reaction to this story. Some are effectively arguing against it. Can't play the no respect underdog card now. For so many who dismiss ESPN this is a problem. What to do when an organization you love to use as a punching bag suddenly does an analysis that rates your team highly? Fun Scoop neuroses.
To be fair, this isn't really ESPN picking us 4th. It's ESPN running a really janky computer algorithm and reporting the results.
I don't know the ins and out of BPI very well, but just by looking at these results, they vastly overvalue returning production.....and that's coming from a guy who tends to value returning production more than shiny new players.
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I refuse to get bent out of shape discussing the ranking of Marquette at #4 in a meaningless, absurd, clickbait fodder, computer-predictive modeled algorithm whose results are no more accurate than a 5 year-old banging haphazardly on a keyboard with an Excel spreadsheet from her parents' work opened up because she wants to play Dora the Explorer Dress-up-a-looza.
That being said, how the hell is Wisconsin #8?
Maybe the greatest scene in recent comedy movie history is Jason Sudeikis's pre-trip hair-style request from We're the Millers as he's attempting to change his look from drug-dealer casual to suburban dolt (designed to fool the DEA/Customs peeps at the Mexican border).......
"give me something that says I get up at 5am every morning and commute 3 hours round-trip to some desk job I hate for some jag-off boss that expects me to lick his balls all day....so I can keep my wife up to her eyeballs with self help books and my kids decked out in DORA THE EXPLORER gear...all until I get the courage to put a shotgun in my mouth" {Joe WorkingStiff seated nearby points to his hair and goes, "riiight heeere."}
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I refuse to get bent out of shape discussing the ranking of Marquette at #4 in a meaningless, absurd, clickbait fodder, computer-predictive modeled algorithm whose results are no more accurate than a 5 year-old banging haphazardly on a keyboard with an Excel spreadsheet from her parents' work opened up because she wants to play Dora the Explorer Dress-up-a-looza.
That being said, how the hell is Wisconsin #8?
Yep Benny, smarter than the average bear.
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Though thinking about this, the best part of these results is that Badger fans can't get excited about being ranked #8 because if they do that means they believe that we are ranked #4 ;D
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More meaningful?
A) traveling to a foreign country to find a tribe that has no electricity or knowledge of the civilized world and have them rank D-I teams, or
B) BPI?
Lol. This is good.
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If you are talking about straight statistics, sure. But if you are successful in a top tier program that provides you with just about everything you would ever want (including pay), and you have demonstrated that you are honored and humbled by being a part one of the most important programs in NCAA basketball history, why would you leave for anything other than the arguably the top job in NCAA basketball, which also happens to be your alma mater?
Where else would Wojo go? North Carolina? Kansas?
Lots of places besides Duke that Wojo would leave Marquette for. It is naive to think otherwise.
However, I doubt at this juncture many, if any, of those places would want him. A Final Four run could certainly change that.
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This ranking is certifiably insane. We are, at best, a fringe Top 25 team (#20 through RV)
My expectations remain the same...just make the god d*mn NCAA tournament
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No
I thought teal would not be necessary and I imagine the same for the yes answer
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Doubt Wojo would leave - or be courted to leave - at any point in the next 3 years. He's 4 years in, has yet to win an NCAA tournament game. Has program trending in a good way with the talent he and staff have recruited.
However, there aren't many jobs better than the MU job, that would want to pay a guy like Wojo $2M+, that ARE clear cut better jobs (to which Wojo would want to jump), that would throw down a serious offer to a guy without any real NCAA tourney resume.
Recall what Crean and Buzz accomplished in the NCAA before leaving. Wojo has a ways to go.
It does bode well for MU, that should Wojo replicate Buzz's level of success, that Lovell was all-in and bullish on Wojo from Day 1, and gave him a contract extension for winning the Pre-season NIT 3 years ago. Lovell has been steadfast in his support and that could prove to be quite prescient/valuable IF Wojo can actually coach.
I agree with all of this. Friends who attended other schools with good to excellent basketball teams (KU, Nova, UofI, etc.) think Wojo has been failure at MU and think MU can do better. Granted, these are not ADs and I disagree with them but I don't have a lot to defend Wojo on. The perception is Wojo is another in a long line of disappointing Duke assistants.
The bigger point is Wojo would be a hard sell to fan bases of other big time basketball programs and not likely to get a look any time soon. (just my uninformed internet opinion)
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I agree with all of this. Friends who attended other schools with good to excellent basketball teams (KU, Nova, UofI, etc.) think Wojo has been failure at MU and think MU can do better. Granted, these are not ADs and I disagree with them but I don't have a lot to defend Wojo on. The perception is Wojo is another in a long line of disappointing Duke assistants.
The bigger point is Wojo would be a hard sell to fan bases of other big time basketball programs and not likely to get a look any time soon. (just my uninformed internet opinion)
Exact opposite perception of Wojo's time at Marquette (especially the Nova people) from the basketball community in the NYC metro.
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The answer to their question is because BPI is a dumb metric ESPN came up with for attention. Though it's far less annoying than "QBR".
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They had a terrible season and were lucky to get into the tournament.
It was not a "terrible" season. It was not as good as many earlier seasons. Our season in Wojo's first year was "terrible." Our season in Buzz's last year might have been "terrible," especially when considering the expectations going in.
Some of you younger guys do not remember that Al wanted out. He tried on several occasions to leave.
Yep. If the coaching environment back then were similar to now, Al would have left MU before he ever won a national title.
Today's universities do not stop coaches from leaving, no matter if they have 1,000 years left on their contracts. The contracts are pretty much meaningful only in the $$$ - the school must still pay a fired coach, and a coach who leaves might have to pay a buyout. But the years ... meaningless.
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Someone says something nice about MU and half of scoop loses their mind about the HC (that they roasted the last two years) possibly leaving.
Can’t have fun with anything ‘round here no mo.
That said, I can’t wait for the October prediction threads.
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Someone says something nice about MU and half of scoop loses their mind about the HC (that they roasted the last two years) possibly leaving.
Can’t have fun with anything ‘round here no mo.
That said, I can’t wait for the October prediction threads.
Not sure any Scoopers "lost their mind," but I get what you're saying.
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Not sure any Scoopers "lost their mind," but I get what you're saying.
Haha. True. To be fair I come from a family of over exaggerators.
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I agree with all of this. Friends who attended other schools with good to excellent basketball teams (KU, Nova, UofI, etc.) think Wojo has been failure at MU and think MU can do better. Granted, these are not ADs and I disagree with them but I don't have a lot to defend Wojo on. The perception is Wojo is another in a long line of disappointing Duke assistants.
The bigger point is Wojo would be a hard sell to fan bases of other big time basketball programs and not likely to get a look any time soon. (just my uninformed internet opinion)
Since when is Illinois considered a school with a “good to excellent” basketball team? By that measure, Marquette is a blue blood.
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They had a terrible season and were lucky to get into the tournament.
If 1976-1977 is your definition of terrible, you've hibernated through much of the last 41 seasons.
Compared to 28-1, maybe. But the last team to be that good and win it all happened a long time ago. But our record in 1976-1977 was pretty good compared to recent times.
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I agree with all of this. Friends who attended other schools with good to excellent basketball teams (KU, Nova, UofI, etc.) think Wojo has been failure at MU and think MU can do better. Granted, these are not ADs and I disagree with them but I don't have a lot to defend Wojo on. The perception is Wojo is another in a long line of disappointing Duke assistants.
The bigger point is Wojo would be a hard sell to fan bases of other big time basketball programs and not likely to get a look any time soon. (just my uninformed internet opinion)
Right now Wojo would be a tough sell. But that's not really the point. Wojo has done most things right in building the program from the ground up. This upcoming year is exactly what he has been building toward. If the guy has grown as a coach, we should see the results this year. And those results are should what make him desirable.
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If 1976-1977 is your definition of terrible, you've hibernated through much of the last 41 seasons.
Compared to 28-1, maybe. But the last team to be that good and win it all happened a long time ago. But our record in 1976-1977 was pretty good compared to recent times.
They were terrible. My memory fails me but they lost 4 or 5 of their last 6 games. They were the worst team, IMHO, Al had in the 70s. Their saving grace was getting an at larger birth, which some did not think they deserved with 7 losses, and then winning the championship.
But, yeah, if you want to compare them to all the dismal teams MU had in the 80s and early 90s they were great by comparison.
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They were terrible. My memory fails me but they lost 4 or 5 of their last 6 games. They were the worst team, IMHO, Al had in the 70s. Their saving grace was getting an at larger birth, which some did not think they deserved with 7 losses, and then winning the championship.
But, yeah, if you want to compare them to all the dismal teams MU had in the 80s and early 90s they were great by comparison.
They had a 2-4 stretch but closed out 5-1.
I think the argument against them being terrible that dgles is using is what non Al or Wade teams would you put ahead of them? And I think his assumption is the answer is none thus they are still better than almost everything since.
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Since when is Illinois considered a school with a “good to excellent” basketball team? By that measure, Marquette is a blue blood.
To be fair they have more final fours, and elite 8s than us and almost as many NCAA births. We may not be as far above them as you think.
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Exact opposite perception of Wojo's time at Marquette (especially the Nova people) from the basketball community in the NYC metro.
I don't think Wojo has been a failure, but I am curious on what basis people think he is the exact opposite (one can only assume you mean an undisputed success?)
I'd give Wojo a C+ so far. This year has a lot of potential. But he hasn't delivered much yet.
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They were terrible. My memory fails me but they lost 4 or 5 of their last 6 games. They were the worst team, IMHO, Al had in the 70s. Their saving grace was getting an at larger birth, which some did not think they deserved with 7 losses, and then winning the championship.
But, yeah, if you want to compare them to all the dismal teams MU had in the 80s and early 90s they were great by comparison.
Only on Scoop does someone call our only National Championship winning team "terrible"
They definitely were not terrible. They had a 3 game slump towards the end of the season. 5 of their 7 losses all season were to top-20 ranked teams (can you imagine a modern MU team going all season with only 2 losses to unranked teams? Our 2003 Final Four team had 4). They also beat 7 top-20 teams. They had a hell of a SOS. They would be the modern equivalent of 4 seed winning it all. Not the favorite but not that much of a surprise.
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if salaries remain equal, other than the weather(and maybe the coeds ;)) MU is a better place to be, imho of course. most other top tier programs have to compete with football. at MU, men's basketball is "football". our fans are as good as any or better. AND, we have probably one of the best arenas to play in. you bring MU to the top 10-15 or better, it will get all the national attention one needs-just win baby!
About time someone brought up the weather. It's difficult to live in a place where it's the dead of winter 8 /12 months a year, no matter how great the facilities or supportive the fans and administration are. Lifestyle and family matters! Porky loved 4 yrs in MKE but ultimately wanted to live in a place with 4 seasons, not 2, one of which lasts 8 months.
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Only on Scoop does someone call our only National Championship winning team "terrible"
Right on, Brother Coleman.
I know a lot of us at the time thought losing seven was akin to having a losing season. The night we lost to Louisville after Coach McGuire announced he was retiring or the bitter loss to a Vitale-coached Dewtroit team on Coach McGuire's last home game was pretty disappointing.
But Good God, that 1976-1977 team probably could destroy just about any team we've had since.
41 years later and we're still working to recapture the moment. We've had one brief shining moment since -- the DWade team and its victory against Kentucky. But by and large, we who remember have been angry, frustrated and even hurt by the performance of our beloved Warriors during the past 41 years.
That said, I'm confident Wojo is headed in the right direction. I'm also confident he's here as long as we want him. Yes, Duke could come calling, but if Duke is serious about Coach Wojo, then I'd argue we're probably going to have solved our defensive woes and have at least one more regional championship under our belts. I don't see his rise being fast enough and thorough enough to assume Coach K's mantle.
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Right on, Brother Coleman.
I know a lot of us at the time thought losing seven was akin to having a losing season. The night we lost to Louisville after Coach McGuire announced he was retiring or the bitter loss to a Vitale-coached Dewtroit team on Coach McGuire's last home game was pretty disappointing.
But Good God, that 1976-1977 team probably could destroy just about any team we've had since.
41 years later and we're still working to recapture the moment. We've had one brief shining moment since -- the DWade team and its victory against Kentucky. But by and large, we who remember have been angry, frustrated and even hurt by the performance of our beloved Warriors during the past 41 years.
Since then (minus 03) we've had four conference championships four sweet 16s, and an elite 8 in 15 NCAA appearances and Travis drinking more milk growing up away from one or two more. Yet your comment comes off like we've had one year you can be proud of since 77.
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I don't think Wojo has been a failure, but I am curious on what basis people think he is the exact opposite (one can only assume you mean an undisputed success?)
I'd give Wojo a C+ so far. This year has a lot of potential. But he hasn't delivered much yet.
The people I know and interact with (players, coaches, administrators, etc.) understand what Wojo was dealing with when he came to Marquette. They remember the cobbled together first squad made up of castoffs and rejects. They know that MU is bounces away from being 10-8 in the league last year with a win over Xavier or Nova and should be looking for their third NCAA in a row this coming season. They see guys like Ellenson, Johnson, Reinhardt, Howard, Rowsey, Hauser and know Wojo can work with talent.
Consensus out here is Wojo has fared okay during his apprentice period and has had a successful start to his head coaching career.
$hit, Wojo is miles ahead of what Willard had accomplished in his first few years and there are Scoopers who think Willard walks on water. Most Scoopers love the guys elsewhere and downplay their own guy. In the world outside this cesspool, it's the opposite thought process.
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The people I know and interact with (players, coaches, administrators, etc.) understand what Wojo was dealing with when he came to Marquette. They remember the cobbled together first squad made up of castoffs and rejects. They know that MU is bounces away from being 10-8 in the league last year with a win over Xavier or Nova and should be looking for their third NCAA in a row this coming season. They see guys like Ellenson, Johnson, Reinhardt, Howard, Rowsey, Hauser and know Wojo can work with talent.
Consensus out here is Wojo has fared okay during his apprentice period and has had a successful start to his head coaching career.
$hit, Wojo is miles ahead of what Willard had accomplished in his first few years and there are Scoopers who think Willard walks on water. Most Scoopers love the guys elsewhere and downplay their own guy. In the world outside this cesspool, it's the opposite thought process.
If there is one post that sums up our fan-base over the last four years, its this one. Frustration that things are going about the same way that anyone without B+G tint would have expected them to go.
Great stuff GA
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BPI gave the Spurs an 8% chance of beating the warriors AFTER they were down 2-0. So BPI thought the Spurs has an 8% chance of beating the warriors 4 times in 5 games. It should have been about 2%.
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The people I know and interact with (players, coaches, administrators, etc.) understand what Wojo was dealing with when he came to Marquette. They remember the cobbled together first squad made up of castoffs and rejects. They know that MU is bounces away from being 10-8 in the league last year with a win over Xavier or Nova and should be looking for their third NCAA in a row this coming season. They see guys like Ellenson, Johnson, Reinhardt, Howard, Rowsey, Hauser and know Wojo can work with talent.
Consensus out here is Wojo has fared okay during his apprentice period and has had a successful start to his head coaching career.
$hit, Wojo is miles ahead of what Willard had accomplished in his first few years and there are Scoopers who think Willard walks on water. Most Scoopers love the guys elsewhere and downplay their own guy. In the world outside this cesspool, it's the opposite thought process.
Wojo walked into an MU program that had made NCAA 8 of previous 9 years, with the Al McGuire Center, and a program that invests heavily/among the best in D-1 basketball. Trying to compare Kevin Willard's starting point at Seton Hall and Wojo is absurd.
The results thus far at best are a "C." Many metrics point to MU being Top 15 team this year and that's a testament to Wojo/staff. Rubber meets the road this year as it relates to Wojo's coaching skills. He's had 4 years of learning on the job, and now in 5th year with experienced, skilled roster - if he can't get the job done on a a solid level this year (NCAA bid 6+ seed), he'll likely never be anything more. And, that to me is okay. MU being a consistent NCAA team with occasional second weekend runs is acceptable/solid performance from a coach.
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Wojo walked into an MU program that had made NCAA 8 of previous 9 years, with the Al McGuire Center, and a program that invests heavily/among the best in D-1 basketball. Trying to compare Kevin Willard's starting point at Seton Hall and Wojo is absurd.
If we're going to start using arbitrary time frames, Wojo walked into a program that had no postseason the year before, while Willard walked into a program that had made the NIT the previous season. The point still stands that some scoopers always have the grass is greener mentality when looking at other programs (Musselman and Moser were the latest names to come up). They see the success of one season without looking at the building blocks to that season, which often included quite a few poor seasons.
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If there is one post that sums up our fan-base over the last four years, its this one. Frustration that things are going about the same way that anyone without B+G tint would have expected them to go.
Great stuff GA
I would agree, Dead On.
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They were terrible. My memory fails me but they lost 4 or 5 of their last 6 games.
Your memory does indeed fail you. Marquette final 6 regular season games that year were on the road. We won the first 5 and were beating #2 Michigan at the half when Al got the news that we were "in". We lost that game by 1, then won 5 straight in the tournament.
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Some of you younger guys do not remember that Al wanted out. He tried on several occasions to leave.
Al tried to leave once (to coach the Bucks), not "several" times. Fr Raynor said no, you've got a contract. Al agreed.
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Lenny's recollection is correct. If my recollection serves, Al tried to leave for the Bucks after his second (or third??) year of coaching at Marquette. I also recall a Milwaukee Journal editorial that said the Bucks should get their own coach, or something to that effect. The Bucks franchise, I think, had just been created and had not played a game when they tried to sign Al.
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Exact opposite perception of Wojo's time at Marquette (especially the Nova people) from the basketball community in the NYC metro.
Interesting. That's good to hear. I was just defending Wojo to a Nova friend at a party at his house two weeks ago. Told me I sound like a Cub fan.."wait till next year".(A low blow to a Sox fan like me) He asked how short is the leash getting for Wojo.
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Lenny's recollection is correct. If my recollection serves, Al tried to leave for the Bucks after his second (or third??) year of coaching at Marquette. I also recall a Milwaukee Journal editorial that said the Bucks should get their own coach, or something to that effect. The Bucks franchise, I think, had just been created and had not played a game when they tried to sign Al.
Back then, Marquette > Bucks. As was DePaul > Bulls.
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Lenny's recollection is correct. If my recollection serves, Al tried to leave for the Bucks after his second (or third??) year of coaching at Marquette. I also recall a Milwaukee Journal editorial that said the Bucks should get their own coach, or something to that effect. The Bucks franchise, I think, had just been created and had not played a game when they tried to sign Al.
The fact pattern was this: The Bucks were formed in 1969 and were looking for a head coach. They approached Coach McGuire, who was very interested and either had negotiated or agreed in principal on the terms under which he would become head coach of the Bucks.
Coach McGuire went to tell the Rev. John P. Raynor, who reminded Coach McGuire of his contract with Marquette. Coach McGuire and Father Raynor agreed that Coach McGuire had an ironclad contract and, true to his word, Coach McGuire never looked back.
I'm sure Coach McGuire was approached several times to assume both college and pro positions. He made one comment on the subject, namely that he could not coach players who made more than he did.
Coach McGuire was something that's at a premium in today's college basketball world -- honorable and loyal.
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I have recently been accused of having blue and gold color glasses. However, I am not at all worried about Wojo leaving. Does he not need to deliver on some very high expectations based on BPI predictions? We might want to temper those expectations until we have played some reasonably good competition. To worry about Wojo leaving after last season and before a game has been played this season is a bit optimistic.
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Does he not need to deliver on some very high expectations based on BPI predictions?
No one needs to do anything related to BPI other than sit with a priest and confess their sins of being an idiot for paying an ounce of attention to it.
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I have recently been accused of having blue and gold color glasses. However, I am not at all worried about Wojo leaving. Does he not need to deliver on some very high expectations based on BPI predictions? We might want to temper those expectations until we have played some reasonably good competition. To worry about Wojo leaving after last season and before a game has been played this season is a bit optimistic.
Wojo is paid like a Top 25 coach, the program is run like a Top 10 program with a new facility, for sure the best in the country for college ball. Gets the use of a plane
to recruit, budget is huge. To leave here would be stupid. Pressure is not that great. If he fails this year, then there might be a worry that he gets fired. Secondly,
I am not sure I would want to follow a legend, Al, Dean Smith, Rupp, Crum, most could not live up to the past standard. No where to go but down at Duke. At MU, only can
go back up.
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Wondering why Montana, which screens as top 25-ish in Auburn's value add, returning 3 very high-level players, doesn't even screen as top 100 in BPI
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Wojo is paid like a Top 25 coach
#FakeNews
#Lies
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Wondering why Montana, which screens as top 25-ish in Auburn's value add, returning 3 very high-level players, doesn't even screen as top 100 in BPI
See JB's post
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No one needs to do anything related to BPI other than sit with a priest and confess their sins of being an idiot for paying an ounce of attention to it.
BPI confused MU in the TDT, hey?
That said, MU should be competing for the top of the Big East.
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The fact pattern was this: The Bucks were formed in 1969 and were looking for a head coach. They approached Coach McGuire, who was very interested and either had negotiated or agreed in principal on the terms under which he would become head coach of the Bucks.
Coach McGuire went to tell the Rev. John P. Raynor, who reminded Coach McGuire of his contract with Marquette. Coach McGuire and Father Raynor agreed that Coach McGuire had an ironclad contract and, true to his word, Coach McGuire never looked back.
I'm sure Coach McGuire was approached several times to assume both college and pro positions. He made one comment on the subject, namely that he could not coach players who made more than he did.
Coach McGuire was something that's at a premium in today's college basketball world -- honorable and loyal.
In today's college basketball landscape, he simply would have left, contract be damned. His new employer would have paid handsomely to get him out of the contract.
I loved Al, of course, as most here do. But don't confuse "loyalty" with simply what the times were like 50 years ago. A contract bound an employee to an employer back then. Today, not so much.
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Al tried to leave once (to coach the Bucks), not "several" times. Fr Raynor said no, you've got a contract. Al agreed.
Coach McGuire did not like the job, in fact hated the job except for game days. You are correct on the Father Raynor position of holding him to the contract, and Al backed down, even apologized.
There were other options for him to leave. Notre Dame wanted him and he said no, and told them to hire Fordham's Digger Phelps. Not a good example because Al didn't seek ND, but the other way around. But that was not the only option, and of course we know ultimately he left for Medalist for a few years. He hated recruiting, did not like to run practices, truly did not like the job. It is part of the reason his last two years at Belmont were so poor, because he had checked out and was into other things. The man was a genius is so many ways, and there were things about the job that kept him from being passionately driven, which is why he got out so young.
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Coach McGuire did not like the job, in fact hated the job except for game days. You are correct on the Father Raynor position of holding him to the contract, and Al backed down, even apologized.
There were other options for him to leave. Notre Dame wanted him and he said no, and told them to hire Fordham's Digger Phelps. Not a good example because Al didn't seek ND, but the other way around. But that was not the only option, and of course we know ultimately he left for Medalist for a few years. He hated recruiting, did not like to run practices, truly did not like the job. It is part of the reason his last two years at Belmont were so poor, because he had checked out and was into other things. The man was a genius is so many ways, and there were things about the job that kept him from being passionately driven, which is why he got out so young.
Your exact words were "he tried on several occasions to leave" - which is false. He tried to leave once, and then after 13 years, did.
Of course he had opportunities to leave - he was the 2nd most successful coach in college basketball. Being offered stuff and refusing does not equate to "trying to leave".
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Your exact words were "he tried on several occasions to leave" - which is false. He tried to leave once, and then after 13 years, did.
Of course he had opportunities to leave - he was the 2nd most successful coach in college basketball. Being offered stuff and refusing does not equate to "trying to leave".
Yes, those were the words I used and will stick by. Do not recall if it was Joe Moran, Kevin Byrne, or one of the many coaches he had a relationship with (Lefty, Raftery, Cremins, Digger) that made the statement. It isn't an anti-Marquette thing. He did not like the job and stated it, as did the people that were with him and wrote about him. He enjoyed the games, and that was about it. Recruiting, practices, dealing with the day to day was something by his own words he grew tired of. This is why he ultimately left (one of those occasions I mention) on his own accord, not someone else's (firing).
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Yes, those were the words I used and will stick by. Do not recall if it was Joe Moran, Kevin Byrne, or one of the many coaches he had a relationship with (Lefty, Raftery, Cremins, Digger) that made the statement. It isn't an anti-Marquette thing. He did not like the job and stated it, as did the people that were with him and wrote about him. He enjoyed the games, and that was about it. Recruiting, practices, dealing with the day to day was something by his own words he grew tired of. This is why he ultimately left (one of those occasions I mention) on his own accord, not someone else's (firing).
This post is nonsensical bull shyte. Whether he "liked" certain aspects of the job is beside the point. Whether he had other opportunities (of course he did) is too. You said he TRIED TO LEAVE on several occasions. Name one job, one other opportunity (other than the Bucks HC)) for which Al tried unsuccessfully to leave MU. You can't, because it's BS. Dropping a bunch of names of guys who knew Al and saying you think one of them once said something like that - and using that as your "proof" - is typical Chiconian baloney, what you do when caught in a lie. By the way, how are you coming with those "other shoes" you were going to drop on Buzz? Four and a half years later, still crickets. LOL.
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This post is nonsensical bull shyte. Whether he "liked" certain aspects of the job is beside the point. Whether he had other opportunities (of course he did) is too. You said he TRIED TO LEAVE on several occasions. Name one job, one other opportunity (other than the Bucks HC)) for which Al tried unsuccessfully to leave MU. You can't, because it's BS. Dropping a bunch of names of guys who knew Al and saying you think one of them once said something like that - and using that as your "proof" - is typical Chiconian baloney, what you do when caught in a lie. By the way, how are you coming with those "other shoes" you were going to drop on Buzz? Four and a half years later, still crickets. LOL.
Cannot help you with your second part. For the first part, unless I can find where I read it and publish here, it will go down as you believing he never tried, which may or may not be true. That is fine with me. Not that big of a deal. You seem upset by even the notion that he might have tried to leave multiple times. Why? Other than Hank, who in the last 40 years didn't try to leave? It happens and the MU administration, especially back then, wasn't too on top of things which gave guys more reason to leave.
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Cannot help you with your second part. For the first part, unless I can find where I read it and publish here, it will go down as you believing he never tried, which may or may not be true. That is fine with me. Not that big of a deal. You seem upset by even the notion that he might have tried to leave multiple times. Why? Other than Hank, who in the last 40 years didn't try to leave? It happens and the MU administration, especially back then, wasn't too on top of things which gave guys more reason to leave.
You have a bizarre need to four-dimensionally defend Crean. Very very odd.
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You have a bizarre need to four-dimensionally defend Crean. Very very odd.
Had beer summit......
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Not that big of a deal.
The big deal is you claiming something without offering a shred of proof regarding the legitimacy of your claim.
Factual facts > alternative facts.
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You seem upset by even the notion that he might have tried to leave multiple times. Why?
No, I think he is simply pointing out that did your usual Chico's thing: spewed bull$hit, got called on it, and instead of admitting that you were wrong trying instead to gloss over it by changing your argument.
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Just heard Titus and Frazier laughing hysterically at MU's no. 4 BPI rating on One Shining Podcast. They are not wrong.
But it is going to feel good over the next two years to have MU "back in the conversation" so the experts will not reflexively laugh at MU.
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You have a bizarre need to four-dimensionally defend Crean. Very very odd.
What is odd is your statement. I mentioned Coach Al and Coach Raymonds, not any other of our coaches by name here.
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The big deal is you claiming something without offering a shred of proof regarding the legitimacy of your claim.
Factual facts > alternative facts.
There are times here it is like the Twilight Zone.
I said:
"Buzz wanted out and left. He would be in the same club. true statement
Some of you younger guys do not remember that Al wanted out. true statement
He tried on several occasions to leave. true statement Bucks was one, Medalist the second, and mentioned by either Byrne, Moran, Packer, cannot remember exactly but of other chances Deane wanted out. true statement This is how it is at a number of schools. true statement"
MU82, you even responded to acknowledge my message, which one would normally think that is an agreement. Yet you also say without offering a shred of proof. Why, if I didn't off a shred of proof did you seemingly concur with my statement? https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=56478.msg1034756#msg1034756
Rod Serling, Twilight Zone