ESPN: Why does BPI rate Marquette higher than Duke or Kentucky?

[djorling]

Lenny's recollection is correct.  If my recollection serves, Al tried to leave for the Bucks after his second (or third??) year of coaching at Marquette.  I also recall a Milwaukee Journal editorial that said the Bucks should get their own coach, or something to that effect.  The Bucks franchise, I think, had just been created and had not played a game when they tried to sign Al. 

[WhiteTrash]

Exact opposite perception of Wojo's time at Marquette (especially the Nova people) from the basketball community in the NYC metro.

Interesting. That's good to hear. I was just defending Wojo to a Nova friend at a party at his house two weeks ago. Told me I sound like a Cub fan.."wait till next year".(A low blow to a Sox fan like me) He asked how short is the leash getting for Wojo.

[🏀]

Lenny's recollection is correct.  If my recollection serves, Al tried to leave for the Bucks after his second (or third??) year of coaching at Marquette.  I also recall a Milwaukee Journal editorial that said the Bucks should get their own coach, or something to that effect.  The Bucks franchise, I think, had just been created and had not played a game when they tried to sign Al. 

Back then, Marquette > Bucks. As was DePaul > Bulls.

[dgies9156]

Lenny's recollection is correct.  If my recollection serves, Al tried to leave for the Bucks after his second (or third??) year of coaching at Marquette.  I also recall a Milwaukee Journal editorial that said the Bucks should get their own coach, or something to that effect.  The Bucks franchise, I think, had just been created and had not played a game when they tried to sign Al.

The fact pattern was this: The Bucks were formed in 1969 and were looking for a head coach. They approached Coach McGuire, who was very interested and either had negotiated or agreed in principal on the terms under which he would become head coach of the Bucks.

Coach McGuire went to tell the Rev. John P. Raynor, who reminded Coach McGuire of his contract with Marquette. Coach McGuire and Father Raynor agreed that Coach McGuire had an ironclad contract and, true to his word, Coach McGuire never looked back.

I'm sure Coach McGuire was approached several times to assume both college and pro positions. He made one comment on the subject, namely that he could not coach players who made more than he did.

Coach McGuire was something that's at a premium in today's college basketball world -- honorable and loyal.

[Class71]

I have recently been accused of having blue and gold color glasses. However, I am not at all worried about Wojo  leaving. Does he not need to deliver on some very high expectations based on BPI predictions? We might want to temper those expectations until we have played some reasonably good competition. To worry about Wojo leaving after last season and before a game has been played this season is a bit optimistic.

[Jay Bee]

Does he not need to deliver on some very high expectations based on BPI predictions?

No one needs to do anything related to BPI other than sit with a priest and confess their sins of being an idiot for paying an ounce of attention to it.

[DCHoopster]

I have recently been accused of having blue and gold color glasses. However, I am not at all worried about Wojo  leaving. Does he not need to deliver on some very high expectations based on BPI predictions? We might want to temper those expectations until we have played some reasonably good competition. To worry about Wojo leaving after last season and before a game has been played this season is a bit optimistic.

Wojo is paid like a Top 25 coach, the program is run like a Top 10 program with a new facility, for sure the best in the country for college ball.  Gets the use of a plane
to recruit, budget is huge.  To leave here would be stupid. Pressure is not that great.  If he fails this year, then there might be a worry that he gets fired.  Secondly,
I am not sure I would want to follow a legend,  Al, Dean Smith, Rupp, Crum, most could not live up to the past standard.  No where to go but down at Duke. At MU, only can
go back up.

[Silkk the Shaka]

Wondering why Montana, which screens as top 25-ish in Auburn's value add, returning 3 very high-level players, doesn't even screen as top 100 in BPI

[Jay Bee]

Wojo is paid like a Top 25 coach

#FakeNews
#Lies

[Newsdreams]

Wondering why Montana, which screens as top 25-ish in Auburn's value add, returning 3 very high-level players, doesn't even screen as top 100 in BPI

See JB's post

[Dr. Blackheart]

No one needs to do anything related to BPI other than sit with a priest and confess their sins of being an idiot for paying an ounce of attention to it.

BPI confused MU in the TDT, hey?

That said, MU should be competing for the top of the Big East.

[MU82]

The fact pattern was this: The Bucks were formed in 1969 and were looking for a head coach. They approached Coach McGuire, who was very interested and either had negotiated or agreed in principal on the terms under which he would become head coach of the Bucks.

Coach McGuire went to tell the Rev. John P. Raynor, who reminded Coach McGuire of his contract with Marquette. Coach McGuire and Father Raynor agreed that Coach McGuire had an ironclad contract and, true to his word, Coach McGuire never looked back.

I'm sure Coach McGuire was approached several times to assume both college and pro positions. He made one comment on the subject, namely that he could not coach players who made more than he did.

Coach McGuire was something that's at a premium in today's college basketball world -- honorable and loyal.

In today's college basketball landscape, he simply would have left, contract be damned. His new employer would have paid handsomely to get him out of the contract.

I loved Al, of course, as most here do. But don't confuse "loyalty" with simply what the times were like 50 years ago. A contract bound an employee to an employer back then. Today, not so much.

[WarriorDad]

Al tried to leave once (to coach the Bucks), not "several" times. Fr Raynor said no, you've got a contract. Al agreed.

Coach McGuire did not like the job, in fact hated the job except for game days.  You are correct on the Father Raynor position of holding him to the contract, and Al backed down, even apologized.

There were other options for him to leave. Notre Dame wanted him and he said no, and told them to hire Fordham's Digger Phelps.  Not a good example because Al didn't seek ND, but the other way around.  But that was not the only option, and of course we know ultimately he left for Medalist for a few years.   He hated recruiting, did not like to run practices, truly did not like the job.  It is part of the reason his last two years at Belmont were so poor, because he had checked out  and was into other things.  The man was a genius is so many ways, and there were things about the job that kept him from being passionately driven, which is why he got out so young.

[Lennys Tap]

Coach McGuire did not like the job, in fact hated the job except for game days.  You are correct on the Father Raynor position of holding him to the contract, and Al backed down, even apologized.

There were other options for him to leave. Notre Dame wanted him and he said no, and told them to hire Fordham's Digger Phelps.  Not a good example because Al didn't seek ND, but the other way around.  But that was not the only option, and of course we know ultimately he left for Medalist for a few years.   He hated recruiting, did not like to run practices, truly did not like the job.  It is part of the reason his last two years at Belmont were so poor, because he had checked out  and was into other things.  The man was a genius is so many ways, and there were things about the job that kept him from being passionately driven, which is why he got out so young.

Your exact words were "he tried on several occasions to leave" - which is false. He tried to leave once, and then after 13 years, did.

Of course he had opportunities to leave - he was the 2nd most successful coach in college basketball. Being offered stuff and refusing does not equate to "trying to leave".

[WarriorDad]

Your exact words were "he tried on several occasions to leave" - which is false. He tried to leave once, and then after 13 years, did.

Of course he had opportunities to leave - he was the 2nd most successful coach in college basketball. Being offered stuff and refusing does not equate to "trying to leave".

Yes, those were the words I used and will stick by.  Do not recall if it was Joe Moran, Kevin Byrne, or one of the many coaches he had a relationship with (Lefty, Raftery, Cremins, Digger) that made the statement.  It isn't an anti-Marquette thing. He did not like the job and stated it, as did the people that were with him and wrote about him.  He enjoyed the games, and that was about it.  Recruiting, practices, dealing with the day to day was something by his own words he grew tired of.  This is why he ultimately left (one of those occasions I mention) on his own accord, not someone else's (firing).

[Lennys Tap]

Yes, those were the words I used and will stick by.  Do not recall if it was Joe Moran, Kevin Byrne, or one of the many coaches he had a relationship with (Lefty, Raftery, Cremins, Digger) that made the statement.  It isn't an anti-Marquette thing. He did not like the job and stated it, as did the people that were with him and wrote about him.  He enjoyed the games, and that was about it.  Recruiting, practices, dealing with the day to day was something by his own words he grew tired of.  This is why he ultimately left (one of those occasions I mention) on his own accord, not someone else's (firing).

This post is nonsensical bull shyte. Whether he "liked" certain aspects of the job is beside the point. Whether he had other opportunities (of course he did) is too. You said he TRIED TO LEAVE on several occasions. Name one job, one other opportunity (other than the Bucks HC)) for which Al tried unsuccessfully to leave MU. You can't, because it's BS. Dropping a bunch of names of guys who knew Al and saying you think one of them once said something like that - and using that as your "proof" - is typical Chiconian baloney, what you do when caught in a lie. By the way, how are you coming with those "other shoes" you were going to drop on Buzz? Four and a half years later, still crickets. LOL.

[WarriorDad]

This post is nonsensical bull shyte. Whether he "liked" certain aspects of the job is beside the point. Whether he had other opportunities (of course he did) is too. You said he TRIED TO LEAVE on several occasions. Name one job, one other opportunity (other than the Bucks HC)) for which Al tried unsuccessfully to leave MU. You can't, because it's BS. Dropping a bunch of names of guys who knew Al and saying you think one of them once said something like that - and using that as your "proof" - is typical Chiconian baloney, what you do when caught in a lie. By the way, how are you coming with those "other shoes" you were going to drop on Buzz? Four and a half years later, still crickets. LOL.

Cannot help you with your second part.  For the first part, unless I can find where I read it and publish here, it will go down as you believing he never tried, which may or may not be true.  That is fine with me.  Not that big of a deal.  You seem upset by even the notion that he might have tried to leave multiple times.  Why?  Other than Hank, who in the last 40 years didn't try to leave?  It happens and the MU administration, especially back then, wasn't too on top of things which gave guys more reason to leave.

[Silkk the Shaka]

Cannot help you with your second part.  For the first part, unless I can find where I read it and publish here, it will go down as you believing he never tried, which may or may not be true.  That is fine with me.  Not that big of a deal.  You seem upset by even the notion that he might have tried to leave multiple times.  Why?  Other than Hank, who in the last 40 years didn't try to leave?  It happens and the MU administration, especially back then, wasn't too on top of things which gave guys more reason to leave.

You have a bizarre need to four-dimensionally defend Crean. Very very odd.

[Newsdreams]

You have a bizarre need to four-dimensionally defend Crean. Very very odd.

Had beer summit......

[MU82]

Not that big of a deal.

The big deal is you claiming something without offering a shred of proof regarding the legitimacy of your claim.

Factual facts > alternative facts.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

You seem upset by even the notion that he might have tried to leave multiple times.  Why? 

No, I think he is simply pointing out that did your usual Chico's thing:  spewed bull$hit, got called on it, and instead of admitting that you were wrong trying instead to gloss over it by changing your argument.

[LloydsLegs]

Just heard Titus and Frazier laughing hysterically at MU's no. 4 BPI rating on One Shining Podcast.  They are not wrong.

But it is going to feel good over the next two years to have MU "back in the conversation" so the experts will not reflexively laugh at MU.

[WarriorDad]

You have a bizarre need to four-dimensionally defend Crean. Very very odd.

What is odd is your statement.  I mentioned Coach Al and Coach Raymonds, not any other of our coaches by name here.

[WarriorDad]

The big deal is you claiming something without offering a shred of proof regarding the legitimacy of your claim.

Factual facts > alternative facts.

There are times here it is like the Twilight Zone.

I said:

"Buzz wanted out and left. He would be in the same club.   true statement

Some of you younger guys do not remember that Al wanted out.  true statement
He tried on several occasions to leave.  true statement Bucks was one, Medalist the second, and mentioned by either Byrne, Moran, Packer, cannot remember exactly but of other chances  Deane wanted out. true statement This is how it is at a number of schools. true statement"


MU82, you even responded to acknowledge my message, which one would normally think that is an agreement.  Yet you also say without offering a shred of proof.  Why, if I didn't off a shred of proof did you seemingly concur with my statement?  https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=56478.msg1034756#msg1034756

Rod Serling, Twilight Zone