Scarlett Johannson Quits Movie

[Galway Eagle]

You're cool with a white guy slapping on blackface and portraying an African-American?
Pretty much the same thing as Daniel Day-Lewis portraying Gerry Conlon.
I mean, it's either all or nothing.

Conlan is an Irish name and Daniel Day Lewis is Irish

[Benny B]

You're statement isn't accurate regarding just superhero movies but action blockbusters in general. Mad Max: Fury Road got a nod, but before that, you had Gladiator and the LOTR movies at the turn of the century and then back to 1981 (Raiders of the Lost Ark) and 1977 (Star Wars) for even a nomination. The only wins were Gladiator and LOTR: ROTK (which was the worst of the three).

Did you really just lump something else into my argument and challenge it only to be hoisted by your own petard? 

I think what you were trying to say is that my statement is accurate not just regarding superhero movies but also action blockbusters*.  Which I agree is absolutely the case.  Mad Max deserved so much more than costume design (not to mention Jenny Beaven's wardrobe at the awards deserved its own award), and that movie had all the social commentary and current relevance that Hollywood loves.

If not a nomination for Best Picture or Best Director (or even a nomination for Josh Brolin), the Academy really should come up with a new award just for Infinity War.  The way that movie took an entire franchise of eighteen movies over ten years from fourteen different directors (fifteen if you count both Russo's) following ten different storylines and intertwined everything seamlessly all the while developing the Thanos character in under 2.5 hours is nothing short of an epic achievement.  While their careers will never be on the same level as Ford, Capra, Scorsese, and Spielberg, the Russo's coherent navigation of the labyrinth that became Infinity War eclipses the complexity of any single work by these four.

But alas, there is little hope that the Hollywood elite would ever (knowingly) welcome Stan Lee into its halls, let alone its guest bathroom.

* If not, ignore the rest.

[Aside: I blame Howard the Duck for basically obliterating any awards hope for the comic book movie genre.  While HtD was still a fun movie (maybe a step above how much fun "The Room" was), James Gunn really needs to remake that movie to exorcise those dark overlords demons for the good of society, or at least so his fellow comic book movie directors can get the credit they deserve.]

[Galway Eagle]

No because he was playing someone from the same race and similar (if not same) ethnic group.

That being said, I find the whole idea of "cultural appropriation" be rather odd anyway.

Sure go to Belfast or Derry and say that.

[Pakuni]

Conlan is an Irish name and Daniel Day Lewis is Irish

Day-Lewis was born and raised in England to a Jewish mother. His father was born in Ireland (but not Northern Ireland), and moved to England as a toddler.
So, not the same as Gerry Conlon.

[Galway Eagle]

Day-Lewis was born and raised in England to a Jewish mother. His father was born in Ireland (but not Northern Ireland), and moved to England as a toddler.
So, not the same as Gerry Conlon.

Interesting had no idea. Learn something new every day. Then I guess we should all hate in the name of the father as it's a guy from England portraying a currently marginalized  group. Look I'm being a bit facetious purposely. I disagree with actors putting on black face and such but things like sexuality etc are things you can study to "act" let the world decide if they did a good or appropriate job at it. oh and liam neeson clearly should've played Gerry conlan.   

[mu03eng]

You're cool with a white guy slapping on blackface and portraying an African-American?
Pretty much the same thing as Daniel Day-Lewis portraying Gerry Conlon.
I mean, it's either all or nothing.

That's apples and spaceships. Black Face was intentionally provocative and caricature of a race of people fully intended to demean. The all or nothing discussion is more about whether it's acceptable for some one of a different culture, race, gender, or identity to play a role in which they are playing something different.*

*this all assumes the intent is to do the role justice, using the role to attack an identity would clearly pull it under the black face corollary.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Yep.  Just saw a headline yesterday where folks were giving Kim Kardashian crap for wearing corn rows.  She has an African-American husband and multiracial children.

Perhaps I should scold those women who approach me on the beach in the Caribbean to ask if they can braid my hair. How dare they offer to share their culture with me?  Who cares if they need money to feed their kids?

When one considers all the legitimate things Kardashian should be given crap for her hairstyle doesn't even make the list.

[mu_hilltopper]

I don't care what actor plays what character with whatever makeup or accent they desire.  It's art, like it, hate it, be offended, good for you, make some noise.

Let's get to something more important.  Like people who claim to be Yankee, Cowboy, or Steeler fans when they've never lived in those regions.

[warriorchick]

When one considers all the legitimate things Kardashian should be given crap for her hairstyle doesn't even make the list.

I know, right?  Plenty of legit stuff to call her out on.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Why because it was a person from 800 years ago? Listen we can't pick and choose which cultural appropriation is bad and which is ok. A person's identity is their identity culturally.

???

So if I'm ok with Gibson playing William Wallace, I have to be okay with Rooney playing Mr. Yunioshi? Or Depp playing Tonto? Or a theoretical movie where Channing Tatum plays MLK? That makes no sense.

We are mixing race and ethnicity here. Actors are paid to portray people of different backgrounds. That is no problem. The problem only occurs when they aren't just acting as a person with a different background, but are attempting to pass themselves off as another race. So no, a white guy portraying a white guy is not a problem and doesn't belong in this conversation.

To summarize my thoughts on the matter:

Actors playing characters of a different ethnicity: Good
Actors playing character of  a different race: Bad

[Galway Eagle]

???

So if I'm ok with Gibson playing William Wallace, I have to be okay with Rooney playing Mr. Yunioshi? Or Depp playing Tonto? Or a theoretical movie where Channing Tatum plays MLK? That makes no sense.

We are mixing race and ethnicity here. Actors are paid to portray people of different backgrounds. That is no problem. The problem only occurs when they aren't just acting as a person with a different background, but are attempting to pass themselves off as another race. So no, a white guy portraying a white guy is not a problem and doesn't belong in this conversation.

To summarize my thoughts on the matter:

Actors playing characters of a different ethnicity: Good
Actors playing character of  a different race: Bad

To be fair at the time of William Wallace they were regarded as a different race. That being said I agree with what you're saying. My point was that marginalized groups should probably see the portrayal first before getting up in arms as it is acting.

Next question, why has nobody brought up Robert Downey jr in tropic Thunder?

[Benny B]

To be fair at the time of William Wallace they were regarded as a different race. That being said I agree with what you're saying. My point was that marginalized groups should probably see the portrayal first before getting up in arms as it is acting.

Next question, why has nobody brought up Robert Downey jr in tropic Thunder?

Because that was a farce.  Which is basically what this discussion has become.

[GGGG]

I don't care what actor plays what character with whatever makeup or accent they desire.  It's art, like it, hate it, be offended, good for you, make some noise.

Let's get to something more important.  Like people who claim to be Yankee, Cowboy, or Steeler fans when they've never lived in those regions.

I just ran into one of those Cowboy fans at work today.  And he's 28 years old.  I mean, they haven't even been all that good since he was about five. 

[mu03eng]

???

So if I'm ok with Gibson playing William Wallace, I have to be okay with Rooney playing Mr. Yunioshi? Or Depp playing Tonto? Or a theoretical movie where Channing Tatum plays MLK? That makes no sense.

We are mixing race and ethnicity here. Actors are paid to portray people of different backgrounds. That is no problem. The problem only occurs when they aren't just acting as a person with a different background, but are attempting to pass themselves off as another race. So no, a white guy portraying a white guy is not a problem and doesn't belong in this conversation.

To summarize my thoughts on the matter:

Actors playing characters of a different ethnicity: Good
Actors playing character of  a different race: Bad

I'll concede the point to you for the most part I just think it's pretty grey area. Yes, Irish is an ethnicity but it's also a culture(no different than trans is a culture) and what if Hollywood was going to cast Colin Farrell as Michael Collins, do the Northern Irish have no reason to be upset by the choice?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I'll concede the point to you for the most part I just think it's pretty grey area. Yes, Irish is an ethnicity but it's also a culture(no different than trans is a culture) and what if Hollywood was going to cast Colin Farrell as Michael Collins, do the Northern Irish have no reason to be upset by the choice?

I see what you are saying, but the difference is that in today's day and age Irish is a privileged culture and trans is not. Not quite an apple to apples comparison.

That being said, I personally don't have a problem with a cisgendered actor playing a transgendered character. I also don't have a problem with the trans community voicing a different opinion.

[Galway Eagle]

I see what you are saying, but the difference is that in today's day and age Irish is a privileged culture and trans is not. Not quite an apple to apples comparison.

That being said, I personally don't have a problem with a cisgendered actor playing a transgendered character. I also don't have a problem with the trans community voicing a different opinion.

Go to Belfast or Derry in the Catholic areas and tell them that.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Go to Belfast or Derry in the Catholic areas and tell them that.

Of course, everything I am saying is in the context of American society.

I would also imagine that even there trans individuals face just as much if not more discrimination. I don't know that for sure, maybe Northern Ireland is more trans friendly than I realize.

[brewcity77]

Why because it was a person from 800 years ago? Listen we can't pick and choose which cultural appropriation is bad and which is ok. A person's identity is their identity culturally.

No, because the only people that will complete about white male representation are white males.

For centuries, white males have dictated the direction of virtually everything on this planet. From governance to storytelling to education, virtually all facets of western civilization have been dominated by white male cis voices.

I understand it's difficult for white males that are used to dominating every discussion to take a back seat, but the reality is for centuries, the only thing white males haven't taken the lead in is listening. So in terms of representation, it is more important to allow other stories to be told and allow marginalized communities to both tell their stories and to take the lead in the telling of those stories.

And I don't mean to single you out, but I think it's important that white males (like myself) spend some more time listening than talking.

I'd say Nanette on Netflix is a great place to start if talking to actual marginalized people in person is too tough.

[Pakuni]

Let's get to something more important.  Like people who claim to be Yankee, Cowboy, or Steeler fans when they've never lived in those regions.

Eh ... as long you're consistent and not a fairweather fan, cheer for whoever you want to cheer for. One's fandom need not be predetermined by place of birth (or worse, who your family cheers for).

[Dr. Blackheart]

How you cats with Mrs. Doubtfire?

[jutaw22mu]

Interesting had no idea. Learn something new every day. Then I guess we should all hate in the name of the father as it's a guy from England portraying a currently marginalized  group. Look I'm being a bit facetious purposely. I disagree with actors putting on black face and such but things like sexuality etc are things you can study to "act" let the world decide if they did a good or appropriate job at it. oh and liam neeson clearly should've played Gerry conlan.

the straight guy who plays the gay guy on modern family does a pretty good job.

[GGGG]

How you cats with Mrs. Doubtfire?

I thought it was an overrated movie.

[Benny B]

Of course, everything I am saying is in the context of American society.

Hey... isn't that the society that loves to discriminate against people? 

Seriously though, there are trans people all over the world, not to mention underprivileged classes that have been discriminated against for decades and centuries who would probably give up everything they have for the opportunity to be viewed through the lens of American society.

[barfolomew]

the straight guy who plays the gay guy on modern family does a pretty good job.

Samesies on the gay guy that plays TV's biggest womanizer.

[MU82]

Day-Lewis was born and raised in England to a Jewish mother.

Meaning that Mel Gibson has somebody else to disparage with anti-Semitic slams.