US Open Thread

[MU82]

This is shaping up as something that will not please me on Sunday - a one-man runaway. I am hoping that Johnson struggles mightily today and/or a few others step up to challenge him.

Sunday's back-9 in a several-players-can-win U.S. Open is one of my favorite things to watch in all of sports.

Johnson winning by 9 strokes would not do much for me. I'm all about the drama.

[jsglow]

Tigers comeback still a work in progress.

Tiger comeback will never happen.  It's only the media that keeps his story alive.

http://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/23804519/tiger-woods-played-poorly-2018-us-open-days-winning-major-championships-not-over

Could he win a few tournaments in the next 2-5 years?  Sure.  Can he compete at the highest level to be considered a 'favorite' at a major?  Um, no.

[tower912]

I am on the fence on that.    'Comeback' is a loosely defined term in this case.     Will he ever be the Tiger he was 1997-2008?    No.   Hell, no.   Will he win a couple of tournaments and contend at Augusta and maybe a couple of other majors where the course suits his eye and game (Pebble)?    Probably.     I don't see him winning more than one more major.     I still remember as a young lad the excitement when Arnie would get near the lead of a tournament or major even though he hadn't won one in a decade.    Tiger still generates that kind of interest and it is in the golf media's interest to push the 'Tiger comeback' narrative. 

[Goose]

Tower

I am mostly with you. I am hoping that Tiger gives us more excitement over the weekend in upcoming majors. I vividly remembering being glued to the set when Jack would get intention in the twilight of his career. Watching Norman and Watson almost win the British was must watch TV for me. I have my fingers crossed Tiger gives me reason to be glued to the TV.

MU82
I completely agree. This golf course is meant to have a battle on the back nine on Sunday. I am pulling for anyone to get close at this point.

[jsglow]

I am on the fence on that.    'Comeback' is a loosely defined term in this case.     Will he ever be the Tiger he was 1997-2008?    No.   Hell, no.   Will he win a couple of tournaments and contend at Augusta and maybe a couple of other majors where the course suits his eye and game (Pebble)?    Probably.     I don't see him winning more than one more major.     I still remember as a young lad the excitement when Arnie would get near the lead of a tournament or major even though he hadn't won one in a decade.    Tiger still generates that kind of interest and it is in the golf media's interest to push the 'Tiger comeback' narrative.

I think that's probably a fair assessment.  Jack was 46 when he won at Augusta and that was considered a truly extraordinary accomplishment.  So let's say Tiger has about a 'baker's dozen' plausible shots left.  He could get one.  But he's going to need to elevate his game reasonably quickly.  Making cuts is a very long way from seriously contending on the Sunday of a major.  I look at it this way.  I have zero expectation that Stricker can win a major or even be in the conversation.  But he made the cut in his 50s and is playing at least as well as Tiger.

[tower912]

I think we agree in principle.   Now, to start a slightly different discussion,   I think Phil has a better chance than Tiger does of winning another major. 

[GGGG]

Nicklaus was 46 when he won the Masters in 1986. Tom Watson should have won the Open at 59. Tiger is 43. Of course he could win a major. It will just be difficult. 

[jsglow]

I think we agree in principle.   Now, to start a slightly different discussion,   I think Phil has a better chance than Tiger does of winning another major.

Agree, much better chance.

Nicklaus was 46 when he won the Masters in 1986. Tom Watson should have won the Open at 59. Tiger is 43. Of course he could win a major. It will just be difficult. 

Should have?  I remember Tom being solidly 'in it' but I don't recall him letting it get away.

I guess all I'm saying that there's a ocean's difference between the possibility of winning a major and being a 'favorite' to win.  If I'm not mistaken, Tiger was one of the 5-7 'favorites' in Vegas for the Masters.  Now that's a phenomenon of how the books works but there's NO way those were legitimate odds.  I think we all agree on the true parameters.

[GGGG]

Should have?  I remember Tom being solidly 'in it' but I don't recall him letting it get away.

He had a lead only needing par on the 18th to win it.  He bogeyed and lost in the playoffs.

[jsglow]

He had a lead only needing par on the 18th to win it.  He bogeyed and lost in the playoffs.

Really, I'm not remembering that at all.

Edit:  What I was thinking about was Augusta but you're right about across the pond the year before.

[GGGG]

Strange and Azinger acting like Mickelson killed someone.  God golf people can be so annoying.

[tower912]

He was out of it.   He took his penalty.   He moved on.   

[rocket surgeon]

He was out of it.   He took his penalty.   He moved on.

  absolutely-could you imagine he did this at "the open"?? 

  andrew "beef" johnston had an excellent point of view

http://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/23814574/the-phil-mickelson-mess-2018-us-open-eyes-playing-partner-andrew-beef-johnston

[MUEng92]

From my point of view there are three kinds of people who spend more than 3 minutes talking about what Phil did from a sports philosophical viewpoint. 1) People who need to get a life 2) People who host radio/TV shows catering to people without a life and 3)... nope, turns out there are only two kinds of people.

Now let's talk about the people who scream stupid things after every golf shot.  That will be the actual downfall of golf!

[rocket surgeon]

this is where golf loses a lot of people-i fully understand the tradition of golf and it's rules.  but when you have to defer to rule 14.14.a.23.zy and then move to corollary 15.12.wtf which of course depends on what ya mean by moving is is and...then debate whether he should be dq'd...2 stroke penalty...next

[tower912]

That is what a US Open course is supposed to look like.  Love the carnage.
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/m/d3a4a56b-294e-39da-a97c-32f446014bef/ss_usga-apologizes-for-unfair.html

Looks like the USGA is admitting the course got away from them a little.    Will this be able to supplant Phil as the narrative?

[Lennys Tap]

He had a lead only needing par on the 18th to win it.  He bogeyed and lost in the playoffs.

Yep - and he striped his drive down the middle on 18, then hit a perfect (he and everyone else thought) 8 iron that landed in the front/middle of the green. Instead of checking up it took one big bounce, then trickled off the back down the hill a bit. His chip was only fair, leaving him a 6 or 7 footer for the win. Like Scott Norwood he missed it wide right - didn't even scare the hole. Never had a chance in the playoff - he was done.

[GGGG]

  absolutely-could you imagine he did this at "the open"?? 

  andrew "beef" johnston had an excellent point of view

http://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/23814574/the-phil-mickelson-mess-2018-us-open-eyes-playing-partner-andrew-beef-johnston

Exactly.  Nice article. 

[Herman Cain]

Just got back from spending the day at Shinnecock.

The players had to be incredibly precise with their irons.  The penalty for being in the wrong location on or around the greens was  severe.

I thought most of the leaders were pretty focused and didn’t let the course get in their head. Justin Rose seemed to have a decent amount of confidence.

I spoke to some USGA people who said they were going to try and set the course up easier tomorrow but that may be easier said than done.  I still think it will be baked out when the last few groups tee off.

[rocket surgeon]

That is what a US Open course is supposed to look like.  Love the carnage.
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/m/d3a4a56b-294e-39da-a97c-32f446014bef/ss_usga-apologizes-for-unfair.html

Looks like the USGA is admitting the course got away from them a little.    Will this be able to supplant Phil as the narrative?

Ok, after reading this article, the usga is admitting to basically setting up the pin placements to what they thought would be the weather conditions...and someone was wrong?  What?  The weather people are to blame?  Those pin placements on the mentioned holes were rediculous regardless of the drying conditions.  This will be really interesting to watch tomorrow.  I think a lot of the players skipped the putting green after their round and scheduled a couple hour session with their psychological coach to straighten out their heads, right Phil?

http://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/23814794/us-open-zach-johnson-vents-shinnecock-hills-conditions

[rocket surgeon]

Just got back from spending the day at Shinnecock.

The players had to be incredibly precise with their irons.  The penalty for being in the wrong location on or around the greens was  severe.

I thought most of the leaders were pretty focused and didn’t let the course get in their head. Justin Rose seemed to have a decent amount of confidence.

I spoke to some USGA people who said they were going to try and set the course up easier tomorrow but that may be easier said than done.  I still think it will be baked out when the last few groups tee off.

I forget which event I was watching a few years ago, but I remember Jordan spieth waiting to hit his approach shot on a hole,while they hosed down the greens.  Don’t be surprised if you see some of that tomorrow.

Pretty cool you were out there Herman, but I think the players were a little more smoked than they lead on to be.  They looked to be beyond pissed and as beef said, ya had to laugh, otherwise you were crying

[D'Lo Brown]

Ok, after reading this article, the usga is admitting to basically setting up the pin placements to what they thought would be the weather conditions...and someone was wrong?  What?  The weather people are to blame?  Those pin placements on the mentioned holes were rediculous regardless of the drying conditions.  This will be really interesting to watch tomorrow.  I think a lot of the players skipped the putting green after their round and scheduled a couple hour session with their psychological coach to straighten out their heads, right Phil?

http://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/23814794/us-open-zach-johnson-vents-shinnecock-hills-conditions

I cede to most everyone's golf knowledge here, but damn, weren't the greens burnt to hell? I mean, I'm sure the wind didn't help any with drying them out even further, but, that damage was already done. I am not an expert in grass but I have to imagine that crispy, burned, dead grass requires water.

My point is, anyone from the USGA/etc that blames it primarily on the weather seems to be trying to damage control and remove the target from themselves.

[WarriorFan]

Will this finally be the year when the members of this amazing course sue the USGA after the open for destroying their course?  Surely it will need to close for at least a month to recover. 

I personally don't enjoy the US Open at all.  They go to a great course and set it up in a way that it's not so much golf, but "Survivor" on a golf course. 

[rocket surgeon]

I cede to most everyone's golf knowledge here, but damn, weren't the greens burnt to hell? I mean, I'm sure the wind didn't help any with drying them out even further, but, that damage was already done. I am not an expert in grass but I have to imagine that crispy, burned, dead grass requires water.

My point is, anyone from the USGA/etc that blames it primarily on the weather seems to be trying to damage control and remove the target from themselves.

a good observation d'lo-adding moisture to these greens along with pin placements should help the immediate issue somewhat.  these greens are purposely structured to force the players to play target golf.  they have to hit specific areas in order for the green to hold the ball or feed it to an area where they can make a putt.  some refer to it as "postage stamp" golf because that area in this case at shinnecock is very very small.  in some case almost non-existent as you saw good shots end up 20 yards off the green.

also, they have moisture sectors.  some built in to the greens so they can monitor them during the rounds in order to keep them fair throughout the match.  i believe that is what had duringthat round i was watching in which they watered the green ahead of spieth's approach shot mid round.  as you could see yesterday, the players with the early start and this the worst scores coming off the cut, were rewarded.  they played an entirely different/easier course than those who played it later in the day

whether or not the course was ruined by allowing the greens to get too dry remains to be seen.  unless someone follows up on that situation, we will probably never know.  this course is 120 years old however, right?

[Herman Cain]

Koepka has ice water in his veins .  He just keeps making solid shots and putts.