"MU continues to move away from its roots"

[TSmith34, Inc.]

as for brown vs board-i knew this would be picked upon. 

ALWAYS play the victim card.  Yup.

"I repeated some idiotic thing I heard implying integration of schools wasn't such a great thing and people pointed out it was idiotic and more than a little racist.  Poor me."

[NorthernDancerColt]

I had two as well.  Constitutional Law and Civil Liberties.  And they were hard.  But you are correct - he made it riveting.  I remember spending hours in the Library reading those court cases trying to figure out what they were about.  He would have a quiz every Friday on the readings for the week - and he wouldn't get around to talking about those cases until the *next* week.

It's all coming back to me now. At the time it was frustrating....we were so focused on fine-tooth combing the current week's cases, and that week's classroom lectures were based on the prior week's cases. Now I see how this was by design. I loved Constitutional Law, and it was due to Wolfe's rigor that I aced Const Law in law school. Other than Products Liability, Const Law was the only class I enjoyed in law school, and prof Wolfe definitely had something to do with this. I could not stand Contracts, as we had an arrogant professor from Texas who basically required us to recite from memory the War and Peace-sized (but contents were dry legalese) UNIFORM COMMERCIAL CODE. UUUUGGGGHHH.

[Jockey]

The 1950s that were versus the 1950s that people think was clearly are different as night and day. Think about it in terms not of television but of what we know from our history and our experience:

Also interesting that the kids who grew up in the "wonderful" '50s, turned out to be the hippies and counter-culture who wanted to trash everything their parents stood for.

[NorthernDancerColt]

Also interesting that the kids who grew up in the "wonderful" '50s, turned out to be the hippies and counter-culture who wanted to trash everything their parents stood for.

My comment doesn't concern "rating" the 50s, but I wouldn't say hippie counter-culture was simply about trashing how they were raised. In fact, many were very well-informed young adults morally at odds with the proliferating war machine around them. Ike Eisenhower was respected by many of them for his candidness about the burgeoning military industrial complex. And some of them were conscientious enough to realize, albeit years later, that some of their means of protest were alienating and offensive to the brave men on the front lines. And that was not their intended target.

I guess I wish kids today had some of the anti-establishment (and I don't mean anti-Trump) awareness of the Vietnam era generation. A needed sense of the technology industrial complex completing its dangerous merger with the military.
I think today's youth are smarter than we soon-to-be "get off our lawn"-ers give them credit for. However, the one area I truly worry about with Millenials is the bowing-down to all things Google and AI. There is almost zero awareness of the dangers of the misuse of technology re military applications and privacy protections. If it weren't for a couple appalled Google employees who quit in protest, their latest Drone application, developed in tandem with the DOD (which allowed kill patterns to be based on nothing more than algorithms predicting the daily foot traffic routines of human targets) would be moving full steam ahead.

[rocket surgeon]

Like what?  What unintended consequences are you talking about?

 sully-you as one who i believe is very involved in education,(exactly what i don't know) would know this unless you are just trying to further bait me into walking right into a trap for the feeding frenzy to continue.  for you guys from rio linda-further victimize me cuz ya'll know i love me some victimization
 
    very simple-the intended consequence was to integrate schools-right?  brown vs board accomplished everything and nothing at the same time.  as integration was the goal, segregation has become the end...so far anyway.

  it removed many black children from their own neighborhoods, bused them across town, thereby making it more difficult for their parent(s) to play a more active role in their education

    then there was the "white flight" for whatever reasons you may have, caused the schools to become composed mainly of minority children.  back to square one as i see it.   

  the drop in the enrollments due to the departure of families to the suburbs led to a drop in the money the schools received, which caused the quality of the teachers and thus the quality of the education to decline. 

   then there is the violence; it has affected all the students.  it has disrupted many kids from getting a good education.  many families would love to have the opportunity to place their children elsewhere but lack the means, again for many reasons.  logistics, economical, etc

    the emergence of school choice and the debate to allow public funds for private schools

  and probably one of the saddest things to have occurred is the decline of the number of black teachers- thanks to the NEA and the federal government-

       "Although the NEA and teacher unions sponsored legal action, success varied mainly because of the tactics used by districts to lay off black teachers (Fultz 2004).

For example the NEA 1965 survey of teacher displacement in the South found that districts simply did not renew teaching contracts for the upcoming school term (NEA 1965; Fultz 2004). Districts could also escape legal repercussions by involuntarily reassigning black teachers to white schools (Tillman 2004), while white teachers could choose their school of transfer. The hostility and discrimination that black teachers faced in these transfers resulted in many leaving their jobs (Orfield 1969).

"The classification of the general teaching position, held by most black teachers, was reclassified under the special support category of Title IV of the Elementary and Secondary Education Act of 1965 that provided poverty aid to schools (Haney 1978). This meant that, when school systems failed to comply with federal requirements for this aid, funds were cut and black teachers were told that their jobs were eliminated by the federal government. Other tactics included: abolishing tenure laws where there were high percentages of black teachers; allowing dismissal of teachers without cause; failing to replace retiring black teachers with other black teachers; and assigning black teachers to teach out of their content field and evaluating them as incompetent (Futrell 2004, p. 87)."


  please understand that i am not saying brown vs board was good nor BAD.  it had good intentions which got mucked up due to politics and race as many things usually do

[GGGG]

Dude, a lot of the problems with public higher education exist in the north too.  You know, where legal segregation was never the law.

Blaming the problems of public higher education, and there are many and they are complex, on the removal of legal segregation is short-sighted at best.

I literally have NEVER heard anyone who wasn't a virulent racist say Brown v. Board of Education was anything but good.  How you can say "it was neither good nor bad" blows my f*cking mind.  It really does.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Rocket, I get there were unintended consequences with Brown v. BOE and not all the problems it sought to correct have been corrected....but they way you are presenting your argument makes it sound like you think that it would be better if segregation was still legalized.

[GGGG]

Rocket, I get there were unintended consequences with Brown v. BOE and not all the problems it sought to correct have been corrected....but they way you are presenting your argument makes it sound like you think that it would be better if segregation was still legalized.

At best he is taking a neutral position on it.  He has repeated said it was neither good nor bad.   

[Coleman]

The 1950s were good for about 25% of the American population.

If you were a middle class (or rich), white, Christian, heterosexual male, yes it was a good time to be alive.

Of course those are the people who romanticize the era.

Society as a whole was no better than it is today, and in many ways it was worse. Violent crime was roughly the same. People were less educated. People had less income and wealth (adjusted for inflation). People did not live as long. White, heterosexual, Christian males were better off RELATIVE to people not in that group. But they were not better off than they are today.

Today's White Christian heterosexual males aren't resentful because they were better off in the 1950s. They actually have more opportunity than ever before. They are resentful because other groups are no longer as far worse off. The playing field is far more level. This angers the privileged.

[Dr. Blackheart]

If it ain't the 50's, what's the best decade?  I say the 90's.

[mu03eng]

If it ain't the 50's, what's the best decade?  I say the 90's.

It all depends on your ranking criteria, but all things being equal even with all the growing pains we're experiencing. I wouldn't change places with any era from right now. We tend to lose sight of how truly unique our experience in the human condition is right now. Yes there are issues and problems that are taking up our attention but we've never had it so good across so many segments of humanity.

A lot of the the current noise we see is the necessary death (albeit slow) of tribalism within the human experience which will open us to the next evolution of our race and unprecedented expansion.....we're on the cusp with technology and capabilities, we just need to get out of our own way and find common cause as a society.

[Jockey]

It all depends on your ranking criteria, but all things being equal even with all the growing pains we're experiencing. I wouldn't change places with any era from right now. We tend to lose sight of how truly unique our experience in the human condition is right now. Yes there are issues and problems that are taking up our attention but we've never had it so good across so many segments of humanity.

A lot of the the current noise we see is the necessary death (albeit slow) of tribalism within the human experience which will open us to the next evolution of our race and unprecedented expansion.....we're on the cusp with technology and capabilities, we just need to get out of our own way and find common cause as a society.

I was born in the '50s, and grew up in the 60's. But I agree that this decade is the best ever.

The '60s were close because of the huge upheavals during that decade.

[Billy Hoyle]

very easy to do in retrospect billy.  you make that all sound so easy.  foresight and hindsight are beautiful things.  "the right loves to romaticize the 50's..."  most articles written about the 50's do call it the golden age.  were things perfect?  absolutely not.  2 can play your game however.  the left loves to doom and gloom everything.  one can give fill in the blank program x amount of money and it will never be enough-touche! 

i am not a victim, but speaking of which billy, your whole statement was loaded with victims,  the honeymooners, pollution, misogyny, racism...what a terrible world we live in.  man i almost feel sorry for you how miserable everything is in your world. my previous statement which drew all kinds of gasps was neither right nor left.  wasn't racist, wasn't stating an opinion.  i bring up brown vs board and the red lights all go off

Woah there, snowflake.  Nothing I said was "doom and gloom" just actual (not alternative) facts. Nice job refuting them though.

let me guess, you're not racist, you have black friends.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

  and probably one of the saddest things to have occurred is the decline of the number of black teachers- thanks to the NEA and the federal government-

       "Although the NEA and teacher unions sponsored legal action, success varied mainly because of the tactics used by districts to lay off black teachers (Fultz 2004).

For example the NEA 1965 survey of teacher displacement in the South found that districts simply did not renew teaching contracts for the upcoming school term (NEA 1965; Fultz 2004). Districts could also escape legal repercussions by involuntarily reassigning black teachers to white schools (Tillman 2004), while white teachers could choose their school of transfer. The hostility and discrimination that black teachers faced in these transfers resulted in many leaving their jobs (Orfield 1969).

"The classification of the general teaching position, held by most black teachers, was reclassified under the special support category of Title IV of the Elementary and Secondary Education Act of 1965 that provided poverty aid to schools (Haney 1978). This meant that, when school systems failed to comply with federal requirements for this aid, funds were cut and black teachers were told that their jobs were eliminated by the federal government. Other tactics included: abolishing tenure laws where there were high percentages of black teachers; allowing dismissal of teachers without cause; failing to replace retiring black teachers with other black teachers; and assigning black teachers to teach out of their content field and evaluating them as incompetent (Futrell 2004, p. 87)."


  please understand that i am not saying brown vs board was good nor BAD.  it had good intentions which got mucked up due to politics and race as many things usually do

Huh.  So because racists figured out a way to game the system and get around the law and still be racists, it means the law itself wasn't good or bad?

Again, whoever you are listening to is making this argument to essentially claim that because the law didn't do everything, we shouldn't have bothered, and by extension we shouldn't bother with any laws to fight racism because they can't do everything and have unintended consequences. It is a racist argument, pure and simple.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Today's White Christian heterosexual males aren't resentful because they were better off in the 1950s. They actually have more opportunity than ever before. They are resentful because other groups are no longer as far worse off. The playing field is far more level. This angers the privileged.

"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."  - Lyndon Johnson

This has been the strategy in place for sometime.  Give them a boogey man to hate -- blacks, Muslims, women, immigrants, liberals-- and they'll flock to you while you take their wealth and shove it upwards.

[naginiF]

It all depends on your ranking criteria, but all things being equal even with all the growing pains we're experiencing. I wouldn't change places with any era from right now. We tend to lose sight of how truly unique our experience in the human condition is right now. Yes there are issues and problems that are taking up our attention but we've never had it so good across so many segments of humanity.

A lot of the the current noise we see is the necessary death (albeit slow) of tribalism within the human experience which will open us to the next evolution of our race and unprecedented expansion.....we're on the cusp with technology and capabilities, we just need to get out of our own way and find common cause as a society.

I totally agree on all accounts - as long as the death throws of tribalism doesn't trigger an extinction event we have the opportunity to evolve as a collective species.

[sodakmu87]

There are so many facets to this thread I thought I could add to it even though as you see I am not a frequent poster here.

First,  my dad graduated from MU in 1952 and then while his five sons were at and graduated from MU in the 1980s he wondered many times aloud if we were getting the Catholic MU education he received.  In short, how could we?  It was the 1980s and not the 1950s.  Nonetheless, all five of us did enjoy and learn from our THEO classes if taught by a Jesuit or not, and are still faithful church-going Catholics.  Why? Simple.  Because faith was important to us as a family and those values have passed on.   Fatih is not a passive process, anymore than just showing up at MU will get you a diploma and a good job in four years. 

Second, if there is one thing I have learned over the years from living in different parts of the country is that what is liberal and conservative in politics in no way really explains or applies to the Catholic church.  Perhaps a better dichotomy is "traditional" vs "nontraditional"  than conservative or liberal.   I have encountered many Catholics who are quite committed (i.e regular mass attendance, help out at church , teach CCD and flip pancakes ) who come from both sides of the political spectrum.  Put it this way, if you are a conservative R type , would you be upset to have a MU faculty member and SJW type teach your kid if you knew the SJW prof was regularly seen at Gesu as a lector and was a KC member? 

Last, thing is nothing wrong with asking is MU Catholic, or how are they getting the faith to a new generation.  Sometimes a different approach works better.  Heck, my old med school curriculum today is vastly different than the way I was taught 30 yrs ago, yet their board scores are higher.  So if more SJW teaching gets kids into the seats at Gesu and St Joan of Arc I'm all for it.  But if not, well......

[mu03eng]

There are so many facets to this thread I thought I could add to it even though as you see I am not a frequent poster here.

First,  my dad graduated from MU in 1952 and then while his five sons were at and graduated from MU in the 1980s he wondered many times aloud if we were getting the Catholic MU education he received.  In short, how could we?  It was the 1980s and not the 1950s.  Nonetheless, all five of us did enjoy and learn from our THEO classes if taught by a Jesuit or not, and are still faithful church-going Catholics.  Why? Simple.  Because faith was important to us as a family and those values have passed on.   Fatih is not a passive process, anymore than just showing up at MU will get you a diploma and a good job in four years. 

Second, if there is one thing I have learned over the years from living in different parts of the country is that what is liberal and conservative in politics in no way really explains or applies to the Catholic church.  Perhaps a better dichotomy is "traditional" vs "nontraditional"  than conservative or liberal.   I have encountered many Catholics who are quite committed (i.e regular mass attendance, help out at church , teach CCD and flip pancakes ) who come from both sides of the political spectrum.  Put it this way, if you are a conservative R type , would you be upset to have a MU faculty member and SJW type teach your kid if you knew the SJW prof was regularly seen at Gesu as a lector and was a KC member? 

Last, thing is nothing wrong with asking is MU Catholic, or how are they getting the faith to a new generation.  Sometimes a different approach works better.  Heck, my old med school curriculum today is vastly different than the way I was taught 30 yrs ago, yet their board scores are higher.  So if more SJW teaching gets kids into the seats at Gesu and St Joan of Arc I'm all for it.  But if not, well......

First, great post, please feel free to post more.

Second, is part of the mission of Marquette to passing the Catholic faith on to it's students? Being non-Catholic I never got the impression it was but maybe I wasn't looking for it.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

An optimist believes now is the best time to be alive.

A pessimist fears this is true.

[Archies Bat]

First, great post, please feel free to post more.

Second, is part of the mission of Marquette to passing the Catholic faith on to it's students? Being non-Catholic I never got the impression it was but maybe I wasn't looking for it.

Sounds like a good place to link in the MU Mission Statement for reference.

http://www.marquette.edu/about/mission.php

[Coleman]

First, great post, please feel free to post more.

Second, is part of the mission of Marquette to passing the Catholic faith on to it's students? Being non-Catholic I never got the impression it was but maybe I wasn't looking for it.

Not exactly. It is a complex mandate, to be sure.

http://w2.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/apost_constitutions/documents/hf_jp-ii_apc_15081990_ex-corde-ecclesiae.html

[mu03eng]

An optimist believes now is the best time to be alive.

A pessimist fears this is true.

An optimist believes the glass is half full, the pessimist that the glass is half empty, the pragmatist believes it's just the right amount of space for booze.

[mu03eng]

Sounds like a good place to link in the MU Mission Statement for reference.

http://www.marquette.edu/about/mission.php

Please see the quote in my profile....perfect.

[chapman]

To at least give some credence to what I think rocket may be getting at, or perhaps just because it's on a related note and I find it fascinating...

https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2013/08/22/206622688/the-legacy-of-dunbar-high-school

An interesting case that is worthy of study today - Dunbar High School in DC, the first black high school in the country, was an academic powerhouse from its founding.  The number of prominent and successful graduates is hard to fathom, probably only matched today by the most elite prep schools.  In a sad and ironic twist, Brown v. Board actually was the biggest contributor in its sharp decline.

Of course that's a sample of one versus the larger net benefit for the entire country.  Have read some fascinating work on education reform when they pose the question "What lessons can we learn from Dunbar to apply today?"  There are even some statistical outliers today; under-funded, minority schools in places like Georgia and Louisiana whose records compare and exceed most white suburban schools.  Common themes appear to be strong leaders who are anything but "by the book", and enforcing standards to promote a culture of achievement, rather than to print the highest percentage of diplomas.  There are many places (DC area in particular) where they throw money into schools and nothing happens...other than incompetent administrators building up their pensions.

[Archies Bat]

Please see the quote in my profile....perfect.

I noticed, and it was perfect.