UWSP to Cut 13 Majors, Including English and Philosophy; Adding 16 More

[Eldon]

STEVENS POINT - The University of Wisconsin-Stevens Point would eliminate more than a dozen majors including history, political science and geography under a proposal announced Monday.

The university also might lay off faculty as a result of program changes.

The proposal is part of a plan to address a projected deficit of $4.5 million over two years because of declining enrollment and lower tuition revenues.

UW-Stevens Point also would add or expand 16 programs "in areas with high-demand career paths" to increase overall enrollment on the campus, according to a news release.

https://www.stevenspointjournal.com/story/news/2018/03/05/uw-stevens-point-plans-cut-12-majors-add-expand-16-programs/395613002/

___________________


Essentially becoming a trade school, I suppose.  I'm okay with that so long as the rest of the UW-System doesn't follow suit.

[GGGG]

I don't think they are becoming a trade school.  Students would still have access to those subject areas.  They just can't major in them.

I know they have had some big enrollment troubles.  Doing something bold is better than doing nothing I suppose.

[mu_hilltopper]

I don't think they are becoming a trade school.  Students would still have access to those subject areas.  They just can't major in them.

I know they have had some big enrollment troubles.  Doing something bold is better than doing nothing I suppose.

Agree.  My MU rooomate is a prof in the UW-College system and is apoplectic about these changes.

I don't see it.  Enrollment in these colleges .. and majors .. are down.    This is what happens.

[GGGG]

The UW Colleges problem has gotten worse with time.  They never dealt with the issue of low enrollments until it became too difficult to manage.

[Eldon]

I don't think they are becoming a trade school. Students would still have access to those subject areas.  They just can't major in them.

I know they have had some big enrollment troubles.  Doing something bold is better than doing nothing I suppose.

Well to be sure, you can still take English classes and other humanities at WCTC/MATC, but I'd still consider those trade schools.  Cutting the major means that you inevitably cut most---if not all---of the upper-level courses in that field.

Anyway, I never knew about the enrollment problems at the UW satellites.  Perhaps they should merge some of the schools.  I've always wondered why Stout, River Falls, and Eau Claire were separate schools (I think those are the three that are geographically very close to each other)

[Coleman]

Enrollment problems are demographic. The last millennials are graduating, and the generation after them is smaller.

Enrollment is not the only issue. Budgets for the UW system have also been slashed. I won't go beyond that, as I am not going to get political.

I think it is shortsighted to cut these majors. I would be livid if Marquette did it. UW-SP should no longer call themselves a university. Wisconsin State Professional College-SP is probably more like it.

They may still try to offer some classes, but what faculty member in their right mind is going to want to teach at a school that doesn't offer their subject as a major?

I have two big-perspective contentions with the move:

1) The idea that the primary purpose of a university is to serve the needs of the job market. This is one of many purposes of a university. It should not be the only.

2) That the liberal arts do not prepare you for a career. I was a major in history. I am doing just fine. A degree is what you make of it.


In fairness to the other side of the equation, maybe there are too many public four year universities in Wisconsin. But that is a different discussion. If one or more need to be closed, then so be it. But don't water down existing universities.

[GGGG]

I will point out that not every UW school offers those majors right now. Stout for instance has very few social science degrees and none in the humanities.

And the enrollment trouble is somewhat unique to Stevens Point. They are in a part of the state that is shrinking. Eau Claire, Stout and others are growing.

[mu_hilltopper]

Here's another UW-College .. Superior and their major program cuts:

https://thewayofimprovement.com/2017/11/01/what-is-going-on-at-the-university-of-wisconsin-superior/

You look at that but then see they offer 50 majors, 40 minors.  That's still a boatload to choose from.

I have zero doubt that .. the admins of these colleges are trying their best not to cut, which means they are cutting the minimum possible, the majors that impact the least students, the least popular academic areas.  I suppose if there's a major that's more "expensive" than another, then maybe that gets a hard look too.

Everyone loves to kibbitz, though, and if you think cutting the Masters of Art Therapy program is going to doom Wisconsin to terrorists, your table is ready.

[GGGG]

Btw when I said UW Colleges we’re having enrollment problems I mean the two year schools that are merging into the four year schools.

[dgies9156]

Here's another UW-College .. Superior and their major program cuts:

https://thewayofimprovement.com/2017/11/01/what-is-going-on-at-the-university-of-wisconsin-superior/

You look at that but then see they offer 50 majors, 40 minors.  That's still a boatload to choose from.

I have zero doubt that .. the admins of these colleges are trying their best not to cut, which means they are cutting the minimum possible, the majors that impact the least students, the least popular academic areas.  I suppose if there's a major that's more "expensive" than another, then maybe that gets a hard look too.

Everyone loves to kibbitz, though, and if you think cutting the Masters of Art Therapy program is going to doom Wisconsin to terrorists, your table is ready.

OK, to be blunt, I have no idea why UW-Superior still exists. My family originally is from the Duluth-Superior area and I know the university is a point of pride to many in Superior.

But, there is a very fine state supported school 12 miles or so away, the University of Minnesota-Duluth. It is a very strong and diverse university that offers considerably deeper programs that Superior does. And, it has a good hockey team LOL!

Historically, Wisconsin residents have had state resident reciprocity rights at Minnesota state universities, and vice versa. When I was at Marquette, I did summer work at both universities at in-state rates. If the interstate compact between Minnesota and Wisconsin has not been renewed, somebody really needs to think about this. It would make both states much more efficient.

Incidentally, the problems outlined at UW-SP are not unique by any stretch of the imagination. My children attend Southern Illinois University -- Carbondale and what's happening there is genuinely sad. Between Illinois' fiscal mismanagement and decreases in enrollment, SIU is having some real problems.

How long before some of this affects our beloved Marquette?

[Coleman]

Here's another UW-College .. Superior and their major program cuts:

https://thewayofimprovement.com/2017/11/01/what-is-going-on-at-the-university-of-wisconsin-superior/

You look at that but then see they offer 50 majors, 40 minors.  That's still a boatload to choose from.

I have zero doubt that .. the admins of these colleges are trying their best not to cut, which means they are cutting the minimum possible, the majors that impact the least students, the least popular academic areas.  I suppose if there's a major that's more "expensive" than another, then maybe that gets a hard look too.

Everyone loves to kibbitz, though, and if you think cutting the Masters of Art Therapy program is going to doom Wisconsin to terrorists, your table is ready.

No one said anything about Masters degrees. The humanities have been the heart of universities for a thousand years.  If you want to cut them, fine, but don't call yourself a university. Any institution that does not offer degrees in something so basic, so vital as philosophy and history is not a university. Having a couple adjuncts teaching Western Civ does not cut it.

The dumbing down of our society continues...

[GGGG]

No one said anything about Masters degrees. The humanities have been the heart of universities for a thousand years.  If you want to cut them, fine, but don't call yourself a university. Any institution that does not offer degrees in something so basic, so vital as philosophy and history is not a university. Having a couple adjuncts teaching Western Civ does not cut it.

The dumbing down of our society continues...

UW-Stout doesn't offer a major in history. 

UW-River Falls, Superior and Whitewater don't offer a major in Philosophy.

Are you saying that those aren't really universities?

[mu_hilltopper]

No one said anything about Masters degrees. The humanities have been the heart of universities for a thousand years.  If you want to cut them, fine, but don't call yourself a university. Any institution that does not offer degrees in something so basic, so vital as philosophy and history is not a university.

Click the link .. I didn't choose Masters/Art Therapy randomly, it's on the list.

Interestingly, on the UW website: "The UW System is made up of 13 four-year universities, 13 freshman-sophomore UW Colleges campuses, and statewide UW-Extension. "

So it's a matter of semantics and location.  I was googling "2 or 4 year campus" and couldn't get a hit.  Now I get it.  They refer to the 2 year places as Freshman-Sophomore campuses.   If you want your Philosophy major, good for you, but you need to take it at a location that has that cluster of classes/major.

[Coleman]

Click the link .. I didn't choose Masters/Art Therapy randomly, it's on the list.

Interestingly, on the UW website: "The UW System is made up of 13 four-year universities, 13 freshman-sophomore UW Colleges campuses, and statewide UW-Extension. "

So it's a matter of semantics and location.  I was googling "2 or 4 year campus" and couldn't get a hit.  Now I get it.  They refer to the 2 year places as Freshman-Sophomore campuses.   If you want your Philosophy major, good for you, but you need to take it at a location that has that cluster of classes/major.

Ok. I don't care about the Masters of Art Therapy. I get that it is getting cut, but that is not the issue.

And the point isn't that a philosophy major is available somewhere else in the system. The point is that undergraduates from SP will not be well rounded in the humanities. If the major goes away, professors will go away (maybe not immediately, but in 20 years, I highly doubt there will be a tenured professor in any of these disciplines). The core curriculum will be weakened, and these subjects will be taught by adjuncts, if at all. In the end, society suffers.

Robbins Report (UK, 1963): "Universities should have four main objectives essential to any properly balanced system: instruction in skills; the promotion of the general powers of the mind so as to produce not mere specialists but rather cultivated men and women; to maintain research in balance with teaching, since teaching should not be separated from the advancement of learning and the search for truth; and to transmit a common culture and common standards of citizenship."

[GGGG]

Ok. I don't care about the Masters of Art Therapy. I get that it is getting cut, but that is not the issue.

And the point isn't that a philosophy major is available somewhere else in the system. The point is that undergraduates from SP will not be well rounded in the humanities. If the major goes away, professors will go away (maybe not immediately, but in 20 years, I highly doubt there will be a tenured professor in any of these disciplines). The core curriculum will be weakened, and these subjects will be taught by adjuncts, if at all.

Look, I am a MU Arts & Sciences grad.  I get how the liberal arts are important and all.  But you don't need full tenured professors to teach someone required core curriculum courses. 

[MUBBau]

What is the solution here? Keep the programs and keep losing money until the University can no longer remain open?

[GGGG]

What is the solution here? Keep the programs and keep losing money until the University can no longer remain open?

One thing that the UW System could do is reinstate some of the tuition revenue caps it once had but have dropped or modified over the course of the last 20+ years.  That way schools have a disincentive to grow beyond a certain size meaning students would then be forced to look at schools like Stevens Point v. others in the System.

That has all sorts of negative consequences as well though.

[Coleman]

UW-Stout doesn't offer a major in history. 

UW-River Falls, Superior and Whitewater don't offer a major in Philosophy.

Are you saying that those aren't really universities?

I'm saying the more humanities you cut, the less an institution resembles a university. Just cutting philosophy, or just cutting history, maybe the impact isn't as significant.

But cutting:

American studies
Art
English
French
Geography
Geoscience
German
History
Music literature
Philosophy
Political science
Sociology
Spanish


I think you have crossed the line into no longer being a university. Where is the line? I don't know. But this is definitely past it.

[Boozemon Barro]

In 2013 federal and state funding for higher education was about 150 billion dollars. Tuition costs have increased by 2.5 times the inflation rate since the 80s. Where is all the money going? Perhaps the greed of college administrations is to blame?

[mu_hilltopper]

It would be .. righteous .. to argue that eliminating History, Phil, Art, French, et. al, FROM THE ENTIRE SYSTEM would be a crime.

But nipping and tucking, while providing those majors elsewhere in-state seems prudent.   The whole system is predicated on satellite campuses, kids starting at the UW-College sites, then moving to another campus for their 4 year degree.

Someone wants to major in English Lit?  Knock yourself out, you've got choices.  It might not be at the school 30 minutes away.  Sorry.   

You can't have Arby's on every streetcorner.  It's not a bad idea, there's just not enough demand.

[GooooMarquette]

OK, to be blunt, I have no idea why UW-Superior still exists. My family originally is from the Duluth-Superior area and I know the university is a point of pride to many in Superior.

But, there is a very fine state supported school 12 miles or so away, the University of Minnesota-Duluth. It is a very strong and diverse university that offers considerably deeper programs that Superior does. And, it has a good hockey team LOL!

Not surprising to hear that UMD has many more opportunities than UWS.

The UM system has only five campuses and UMD is the second largest (over 11k students), so it gets lots of attention and $$ from the state. And people from all over the state go there. I live in Rochester and know many kids who've gone there.

The UW system has fourteen campuses and UWS is the fourteenth largest (about 2k students). I have lived in Wisconsin and Minnesota most of my life and never met a single person who went there.

Seems like a losing battle, especially as long as there is still reciprocity.

[WarriorDad]

Agree.  My MU rooomate is a prof in the UW-College system and is apoplectic about these changes.

I don't see it.  Enrollment in these colleges .. and majors .. are down.    This is what happens.

Your roommate? You still in school?

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

If UW-Superior closes, where will we train robots to protect us from terminators?

[warriorchick]

If UW-Superior closes, where will we train robots to protect us from terminators?

That's a STEM career. It will be fine.

[GGGG]

Not surprising to hear that UMD has many more opportunities than UWS.

The UM system has only five campuses and UMD is the second largest (over 11k students), so it gets lots of attention and $$ from the state. And people from all over the state go there. I live in Rochester and know many kids who've gone there.

The UW system has fourteen campuses and UWS is the fourteenth largest (about 2k students). I have lived in Wisconsin and Minnesota most of my life and never met a single person who went there.

Seems like a losing battle, especially as long as there is still reciprocity.

UW System has 13 four-year campuses.

The UM System has 5, but the Minnesota State System has 7 for a total of 12 public, four year universities.

Regardless, closing UWS wouldn't be a bad idea.