Way too early 2018-2019 expectations...

[Its DJOver]

Let's exclude post-season tournaments for obvious reasons (NIT vs NCAAs - huge difference)

19-13 versus 21-13 (with the run in the BET)

I don't think it's fair to say MU and Providence had the same amount of success this season and the selection committee would heartily agree with me.

See here's the thing about PC.  They had some better wins than us. 100% true.  But I can guarantee that as loud as the fire wojo voices got after the DePaul loss, they would have been much louder if we had lost at home by 17 to DePaul. 

If we started 3 Seniors that had played together for four years and only got two more wins for it, I would understand more of the fire wojo stuff.  If when Sam and Markus are Seniors and we only get 10 conference wins and eliminated in the first round of the NCAA tourney I will probably be one of the fire wojo voices.

[5DollarPitcher]

Excellent post, EFR.

People always want the backup QB to play ... until he actually has to play.

5DP is CONVINCED that Hurley, Musselman and Oats not only are better but "light years" better. Not sure what "light years" means, but a light year is a lot, so I'll go with a minimum 50% better. So 5DP must be certain that any of them would have averaged 30 wins the last 3 seasons at Marquette.

5DP is another one who would have "seen enough" and fired Tony Bennett after 4 years at Va or Jay Wright after 3 at Nova or Coach K after 3 at Duke. He'll deny it, but I'm CONVINCED he'd be light years away from the truth.

And let's talk about The Great Dan Hurley, shall we?

He went 8-12, 14-18, 23-10 and 17-15 with 1 NIT win over Iona in his first 4 years at URI. If 5DP were a URI backer, I'm CONVINCED he would have "seen enough" of that coach and been calling for them to hire somebody "light years" better!

I'm also CONVINCED 5DP will be rooting for us to lose next season so he can scream "I told you so." Those types are easy to spot from light years away. More important for them to be "right" than anything else.

Wojo is an improving coach and he's got a chance to be a very good one. I can't sit here and say that I am 100% certain he will be a very good one, but I think he can be. I'm glad he's our coach. And I will be rooting for him (and us) to win. Not so I can say "I told you so" but because I'm a Warriors fan.

Jay Wright was 24-8 in Y4 and 28-5 in Y5.  We've seen Wojo's Y4 and I think we all know we aren't getting to 28-5 in Y5.  So try again.

Also I said better coach, can we agree that Roy Williams is like a 200% better coach than Wojo?  I don't see UNC getting 40 wins, right?  Come on, you and I both know that one was illogical.

And I have season tickets, and I stood up cheering the entire time in the Kohl Hole (check my post history) so I cheer harder for the team more than most people I've ever met.  Sometimes you criticize because you know we can do better - rather than the parent that lets their kid bring home B minuses and rewards them for it.

[Its DJOver]

Classic I'm a better fan than you post. It was only a matter of time

[5DollarPitcher]

Classic I'm a better fan than you post. It was only a matter of time

I think MU82 started the "I'm a better fan than you post" when he accused me of cheering for the team to lose unlike the loyal, galant, Legion of Wojo who would never say a slight word about him.  That's how a REEEEAL fan does it.

[Its DJOver]

I think MU82 started the "I'm a better fan than you post" when he accused me of cheering for the team to lose unlike the loyal, galant, Legion of Wojo who would never say a slight word about him.  That's how a REEEEAL fan does it.

Please see my post from two minutes ago saying that in the future if we do not surpass PC record this year (Your bar for success) that I will be in the fire Wojo camp.

Ya got me, backed me down into a corner, intimidated me, the whole nine yards, no excuses now.

[Pakuni]

Jay Wright was 24-8 in Y4 and 28-5 in Y5.  We've seen Wojo's Y4 and I think we all know we aren't getting to 28-5 in Y5.  So try again

Jay was also in his 11th season as a head coach by the time he reached his fourth year at Nova, so it's not exactly an equal comparison.
But since you want to make the comparison:

Wright's first four years at Nova - 76 wins, one NCAA bid
Wojo's first four years at MU - 73 wins, one NCAA bid

[MU82]

Jay Wright was 24-8 in Y4 and 28-5 in Y5.  We've seen Wojo's Y4 and I think we all know we aren't getting to 28-5 in Y5.  So try again.

Also I said better coach, can we agree that Roy Williams is like a 200% better coach than Wojo?  I don't see UNC getting 40 wins, right?  Come on, you and I both know that one was illogical.

And I have season tickets, and I stood up cheering the entire time in the Kohl Hole (check my post history) so I cheer harder for the team more than most people I've ever met.  Sometimes you criticize because you know we can do better - rather than the parent that lets their kid bring home B minuses and rewards them for it.

OK, I'll give you Jay Wright ... although I specifically said you would have been calling for him to be fired after Year 3 at Nova, when he was 52-46 with zero NCAA appearances. I'll give you K's 4th season, too. Look up Bennett's first 4 years at Va - as TAMU noted elsewhere, eerily similar to Wojo's 4.

But what? No full-throated defense of Dan Hurley? Effen admit it, 5DP, if you were at URI after him going 8-21, 14-18, 23-10 and 17-15, you'd have been calling for his arse to get tossed. If you won't admit that, you have ZERO credibility, because that's 10 light years worse than what Wojo has done in 4 years at MU.

I'm not gonna get into the "who is a better fan" contest. If that's where you think I was going, then I apologize.

Frankly, in this thread you haven't sounded like a parent who thinks his kid can do better than B-minus.

You've sounded like a parent who disowns his kid because the kid didn't make the latest semester's honor roll - you know, like little Danny Hurley down the street did.

[5DollarPitcher]

OK, I'll give you Jay Wright ... although I specifically said you would have been calling for him to be fired after Year 3 at Nova, when he was 52-46 with zero NCAA appearances. I'll give you K's 4th season, too. Look up Bennett's first 4 years at Va - as TAMU noted elsewhere, eerily similar to Wojo's 4.

But what? No full-throated defense of Dan Hurley? Effen admit it, 5DP, if you were at URI after him going 8-21, 14-18, 23-10 and 17-15, you'd have been calling for his arse to get tossed. If you won't admit that, you have ZERO credibility, because that's 10 light years worse than what Wojo has done in 4 years at MU.

I'm not gonna get into the "who is a better fan" contest. If that's where you think I was going, then I apologize.

Frankly, in this thread you haven't sounded like a parent who thinks his kid can do better than B-minus.

You've sounded like a parent who disowns his kid because the kid didn't make the latest semester's honor roll - you know, like little Danny Hurley down the street did.

Alright, I admit that if I was at URI, I wouldn't have been happy with the product after multiple consecutive losing seasons with Hurley.  You win that one.  But I still like the way he coaches today, and I won't say I don't.

And for me, I just don't see it in Wojo.  Nothing he's done on the court, in pressers, in games, in tournaments has shown me he's anything more than what he looks like now.  And this is just MY opinion, so we may not agree.  I'm willing to give him next year, but the whole point of this thread was to make next year THE year for him (and all the Scoopers who continue to bash us that don't like him) to basically put up or shut up with some real progress - progress that can and should be made at a top 10 spending basketball school.

[tower912]

Let's exclude post-season tournaments for obvious reasons (NIT vs NCAAs - huge difference)

19-13 versus 21-13 (with the run in the BET)

I don't think it's fair to say MU and Providence had the same amount of success this season and the selection committee would heartily agree with me.

Providence won one more game than MU in the Big East tourney.  Their regular season record were nearly identical.  Marquette had a season as good as Providence.  That is your market for success.   You cherry picked to prove a point.

[brewcity77]

If Wojo goes for whatever reason, TJ Otzelberger should be one of the top choices for consideration.

He might be my first pick at this point. We'd have a hard time finding anyone who knew our traditional recruiting grounds better.

[jesmu84]

I think the three I listed are smart enough to recognize Wojo is not that great of a coach.  The Big East coaches give him props in interviews, but I think they like having him around if you know what I mean.

Also, I wouldn't use the word regression more than I'd use the word stagnation.  Looking at this year versus last year, I'd say we basically had the same result - just barely on either side of the bubble.  The year before, we had a lottery pick and couldn't even make the NIT.

Lots of coaches have done lots more with lots less than Wojo has with some pretty decent players.  So far, he has failed to make this team more than the sum of its parts in any of his 4 seasons which, IMO, is a fair judgement of his coaching ability.

You do realize MU has kept their results "stagnant" while playing increasingly more difficult seasons, yes?

[tower912]

5dollar pitcher, your last post is honest.   You don't think Wojo has 'it'.  OK.  I am not convinced of it myself.  I've seen enough to not give up.  You haven't.  OK.   Moving on.

[MU82]

Alright, I admit that if I was at URI, I wouldn't have been happy with the product after multiple consecutive losing seasons with Hurley.  You win that one.  But I still like the way he coaches today, and I won't say I don't.

And for me, I just don't see it in Wojo.  Nothing he's done on the court, in pressers, in games, in tournaments has shown me he's anything more than what he looks like now.  And this is just MY opinion, so we may not agree.  I'm willing to give him next year, but the whole point of this thread was to make next year THE year for him (and all the Scoopers who continue to bash us that don't like him) to basically put up or shut up with some real progress - progress that can and should be made at a top 10 spending basketball school.

You wouldn't have "seen it" in Hurley, either. You wouldn't have "seen it" in Wright after Year 3.

We don't know what Wojo will be. You think you do, but you don't.

I think we'll be better next year. That obviously means a higher finish in the BE and an NCAA bid. I'd be happy with that as long as I saw genuine progress on the court. That's as on-the-spot as I need to be put. Actually, it's moreso. This season ended 24 hours ago. None of us need to state expectations for next season yet.

Even your own title says "way too early."

And that's the one thing I agree with you on the most: It's way too effen early.

[Dr. Blackheart]

The new arena is ten times nicer than the Wintrust.

My season tickets go up 40%.

I continue to love MU basketball.

The Scoop Intelligencia (btw, that's all of us) continue to debate every thread ad infinitum

Wojo does NOT copy Buzz's new do.

[MU82]

The Scoop Intelligencia (btw, that's all of us) continue to debate every thread ad infinitum

We do not debate every thread ad infinitum.

[Floorslapper]

You wouldn't have "seen it" in Hurley, either. You wouldn't have "seen it" in Wright after Year 3.

We don't know what Wojo will be. You think you do, but you don't.

I think we'll be better next year. That obviously means a higher finish in the BE and an NCAA bid. I'd be happy with that as long as I saw genuine progress on the court. That's as on-the-spot as I need to be put. Actually, it's moreso. This season ended 24 hours ago. None of us need to state expectations for next season yet.

Even your own title says "way too early."

And that's the one thing I agree with you on the most: It's way too effen early.

Opinion stated as fact.  We are 4 years in.  Oddly, you seemed to be able to conclude after watching LeBron James play one game that he was the real deal.  Why after 4-years of Wojo, do you say you feel "we don't know what Wojo will be?"  I'll take a guess:  Because the results thus far have been marginal at best.

Here's to hoping Year 5 it all comes together.  Smart money says, it will be a repeat of the last two seasons.  In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if we take a step back from this year.

[MU82]

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if we take a step back from this year.

Of course you wouldn't. Because you are, at heart, a negative person.

Rough way to go through life. Glad that's not me!

Go Marquette!

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Opinion stated as fact.

Actually it's a fact stated as a fact. We don't know what Wojo will be. We can't see the future. We can make educated guesses but that's it.

I think this is another place where the supposed "pro-Wojo" crowd and  "anti-Wojo" crowd break off. I don't think you will find one person who will say "Wojo is a stud." If anyone did, the "pro-Wojo" crowd would challenge that and say "he could be a stud" and probably give a bunch reasons why he might not be one.

What we do see a lot of is people definitely declaring that Wojo is a bum. The "pro-Wojo" crowd has challenged that and shown why he might not be a bum.

Really "pro-Wojo" just means "cautious" and "anti-Wojo" just means "quick to judge."

[MU82]

Actually it's a fact stated as a fact. We don't know what Wojo will be. We can't see the future. We can make educated guesses but that's it.

I think this is another place where the supposed "pro-Wojo" crowd and  "anti-Wojo" crowd break off. I don't think you will find one person who will say "Wojo is a stud." If anyone did, the "pro-Wojo" crowd would challenge that and say "he could be a stud" and probably give a bunch reasons why he might not be one.

What we do see a lot of is people definitely declaring that Wojo is a bum. The "pro-Wojo" crowd has challenged that and shown why he might not be a bum.

Really "pro-Wojo" just means "cautious" and "anti-Wojo" just means "quick to judge."

Ding ding ding!!

Indeed, I went out of my way NOT to present my opinion as fact.

Ners might want to try that some time.

[Floorslapper]

Of course you wouldn't. Because you are, at heart, a negative person.

Rough way to go through life. Glad that's not me!

Go Marquette!

I do admire the rainbows and unicorns world you live in.  Takes a solid bit of delusion to get there as it relates to Wojo, but, cheers to you for being blind to reality:  We have a mediocre coach.   

And once again, despite your self-bestowed expertise as "an observer of the human condition," you are once again wrong - I'm not a negative person at all.  Go back to my posting history when I joined the board and opined on Buzz.  You'll see I was full on bullish, optimistic and excited 3 months in.  I call it like I see it..and do so early.  Guys like you?  You "observe" for 4 years and still don't have a concrete position.  Sounds about right for a journalist.

[LAZER]

Jay was also in his 11th season as a head coach by the time he reached his fourth year at Nova, so it's not exactly an equal comparison.
But since you want to make the comparison:

Wright's first four years at Nova - 76 wins, one NCAA bid
Wojo's first four years at MU - 73 wins, one NCAA bid

Wright also had a 5 Seed and a Sweet 16 appearance in year 4 and was bringing back a Top 5 team the following year.

[5DollarPitcher]

Wright also had a 5 Seed and a Sweet 16 appearance in year 4 and was bringing back a Top 5 team the following year.

These guys could compare Wojo to Pope Francis and Michael Jordan at the same time if they wanted to. 

The fact is Wojo is does not coach on the level of Wright, Cooley, or even *gasp* Buzz.  Unless he himself improves significantly as an X's and O's guy, motivator, and authoritarian - we will be in for years of what we've already seen (which some on this board are OK with).

[LAZER]

These guys could compare Wojo to Pope Francis and Michael Jordan at the same time if they wanted to. 

The fact is Wojo is does not coach on the level of Wright, Cooley, or even *gasp* Buzz.  Unless he himself improves significantly as an X's and O's guy, motivator, and authoritarian - we will be in for years of what we've already seen (which some on this board are OK with).

I struggle with the Wright comparisons, but I don't think Wojo is far off from Cooley or Buzz. Cooley hasn't made it past the second round and Buzz hasn't won a tourney game since '13, with a good season next year Wojo could easily be on equal footing with those guys.

[MUCam]

I like you all.

I swung the old irons and woods around this past weekend, and let's just say my back is a mess. So, I can't sleep. It's tough.

Then I come here and read these threads and it is like counting sheep. Wojo sucks. Give Wojo a chance. Wojo sucks. Give Wojo a chance. 5 little sheep. 6 little sheep. The butcher the baker and the candle stick maker. Getting sleepy.

Scotch is kicking in. Wojo sucks. Give Wojo a chance.

In sum, opinions are opinions and fact are facts except when sheep count opinions as facts. Oh, and fact: Wojo's huddles on TV suck. Bad. Really bad.

7 sheep. Wojo sucks. Give Wojo a chance. 8 sheep. Benromach Single Malt. Wojo. 9 sheep.

Zzzzz.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

The butcher the baker and the candle stick maker. Getting sleepy.

Buzz!   Throw a good pitch, throw a good pitch, throw a good pitch.