March 21, 2014 8:44:15pm

[warriorchick]

Obviously I have to keep repeating myself...HE WON GAMES! Period. the discussion ends there.

So if he had a team full of felons and continually skirted NCAA rules, that would have been okay because HE WON GAMES?

BTW, he didn't WIN GAMES his last year here.  The year we were predicted to win the Big East.  The year we didn't even make the NIT.  How's that for not meeting expectations?

[GGGG]

Obviously I have to keep repeating myself...HE WON GAMES! Period. the discussion ends there.

No it doesn't.  Winning while causing your employer to violate federal law isn't acceptable.

[GooooMarquette]

No it doesn't.  Winning while causing your employer to violate federal law isn't acceptable.

+1 

I love MU hoops, but winning does NOT justify violating the law.

[Floorslapper]

Or had Buzz behaved better.

Al McGuire of course was a Saint. 

[GGGG]

Al McGuire of course was a Saint. 

Not exactly sure why that is relevant. 

[GooooMarquette]

Al McGuire of course was a Saint.

No he wasn't. But I never heard allegations that he was violating the law to win games.

[Floorslapper]

Not exactly sure why that is relevant.

Maybe because for you self-righteous types, you'd understand people are fallible, and make mistakes at times.

But, if those mistakes are so egregious, don't as a university go trying to make a buck and market yourself off of the accomplishments of those same people.

Al McGuire gets pimped out by MU every chance they get.  We sure like to tout Jimmy, Jae and Dwight being NBA players, yet the Pilarz, Williams., BOT - sure took issue with Buzz recruiting JUCO's.

Buzz acted like a father figure in that situation.  Was it right? No,  But, by and large he and his players repped the university quite well.  Give the guy a break.  He was a cash cow and lottery ticket for the university.  Pretty sure basketball revenue is down substantially since he left.

[warriorchick]

Buzz acted like a father figure in that situation.  Was it right? No,  But, by and large he and his players repped the university quite well.  Give the guy a break.  He was a cash cow and lottery ticket for the university.  Pretty sure basketball revenue is down substantially since he left.

One could say the same thing about Penn State and Joe Paterno.

[GGGG]

Maybe because for you self-righteous types, you'd understand people are fallible, and make mistakes at times.

Well of course they do.  I never wanted him fired.  I just don't think he was some sort of victim of circumstance as guru implied. 

But, if those mistakes are so egregious, don't as a university go trying to make a buck and market yourself off of the accomplishments of those same people.

Al McGuire gets pimped out by MU every chance they get.  We sure like to tout Jimmy, Jae and Dwight being NBA players, yet the Pilarz, Williams., BOT - sure took issue with Buzz recruiting JUCO's.

The issue wasn't simply recruiting Jucos.  It was Jucos who couldn't graduate within their eligibility.  And of course you would celebrate them!  They represented MU wonderfully when they were here! 

Buzz acted like a father figure in that situation.  Was it right? No, 

Interesting take for a guy who flat out said the alleged victim was lying when the allegations initially came out.

[Goose]

Plenty of the blame falls on Buzz. That said, Buzz holding them ransom for money probably cooked his goose more than the gray area stuff. He pushed the envelop with guys he recruited and demand for money and wore out his welcome. Sadly, he had us close to being something and I believe we would be a top 15 program if he was still here.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Plenty of the blame falls on Buzz. That said, Buzz holding them ransom for money probably cooked his goose more than the gray area stuff. He pushed the envelop with guys he recruited and demand for money and wore out his welcome. Sadly, he had his close to being something and I believe we would be a top 15 program if he was still here.

This sounds right

[Floorslapper]

Well of course they do.  I never wanted him fired.  I just don't think he was some sort of victim of circumstance as guru implied. 


The issue wasn't simply recruiting Jucos.  It was Jucos who couldn't graduate within their eligibility.  And of course you would celebrate them!  They represented MU wonderfully when they were here! 


Interesting take for a guy who flat out said the alleged victim was lying when the allegations initially came out.

What I said was there are two sides to every story. I believe in innocence until proven guilty. Believe he said/she said cases are gray, and particularly gray when the act in question began as consensual and at some point apparently turned non consensual.  Neither you nor I ever heard the player's account of what happened.

The reality is that neither university nor MPD felt there was enough to merit any charges.

To rush to judgment and automatically convict the player in the court of public (message board) opinion seems wrong. And as for the woman scorned comment, there is a reason the very phrase exists. Perhaps you've never had a girl lose it, go totally crazy on you, but..I've had it happen and it's a brutal reality.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

What I said was there are two sides to every story. I believe in innocence until proven guilty. Believe he said/she said cases are gray, and particularly gray when the act in question began as consensual and at some point apparently turned non consensual.  Neither you nor I ever heard the player's account of what happened.

The reality is that neither university nor MPD felt there was enough to merit any charges.

To rush to judgment and automatically convict the player in the court of public (message board) opinion seems wrong. And as for the woman scorned comment, there is a reason the very phrase exists. Perhaps you've never had a girl lose it, go totally crazy on you, but..I've had it happen and it's a brutal reality.

Dis right here doesnt sound right.

[WarriorDad]

Guru

Hands down the closest the program was to being relevant on the national scene for several decades.

Are you suggesting we would be relevant for several decades, or first time in several decades?  Al only lasted 13 years, and truth be told the 70's was the only real decade we were consistently relevant.  Coach Williams is so hard to predict what he would be impossible to decipher what happens in the future.

[WarriorDad]

This was one of the saddest days in MU BB history...Buzz leaving..you just wonder how different things might be for the program right now had the board not made the terrible decisions of hiring Larry Williams and Fr Pilarsz.

Wasn't Williams a big reason for forming the new Big East in its current form and not allowing Georgetown to steamroll everyone else?  Pulled Creighton into the conference, too?  That's what I had heard. 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Wasn't Williams a big reason for forming the new Big East in its current form and not allowing Georgetown to steamroll everyone else?  Pulled Creighton into the conference, too?  That's what I had heard.

Larry Williams was arguably one of the biggest drivers of the new Big East.

[muguru]

Larry Williams was arguably one of the biggest drivers of the new Big East.

And unarguably the biggest driver of getting Buzz to leave

[GGGG]

What I said was there are two sides to every story. I believe in innocence until proven guilty. Believe he said/she said cases are gray, and particularly gray when the act in question began as consensual and at some point apparently turned non consensual.  Neither you nor I ever heard the player's account of what happened.

That is NOT what you said.  Let's turn the way-back machine to July 2011.

There is a song by the band Buck Cherry called:  Crazy B$tch.  The very cliche crazy b$tch exists for a reason.  I've personally dealt with a couple of whack jobs, who though very hot, were very crazy and caused me plenty of drama....particularly after breaking up with them.  Another cliche comes to mind:  Hell hath no fury, like a woman scorned.  And my 2 cents - this is exactly what happened here...

[MUBigDance]

I remember starting a simple, innocuous thread that went to places I had no idea and got locked. Am I about to have a second?. Is there a record?

[Floorslapper]

That is NOT what you said.  Let's turn the way-back machine to July 2011.

Ugh.  What part of my previous post did you not read?  And do you have bookmarks of every post I've made here, that you took offense to?  Good Lord.  Super sleuth.  Or super psycho?

[#UnleashSean]

I remember starting a simple, innocuous thread that went to places I had no idea and got locked. Am I about to have a second?. Is there a record?

Just scoop things.

[Jay Bee]

17-15

[GGGG]

Ugh.  What part of my previous post did you not read?  And do you have bookmarks of every post I've made here, that you took offense to?  Good Lord.  Super sleuth.  Or super psycho?

Nah.  That particular post was just a particularly disgusting part of your history here.  Easy to remember.

[Floorslapper]

Nah.  That particular post was just a particularly disgusting part of your history here.  Easy to remember.

Go read Brew's post above mine in that thread...But hey dude, keep being THAT GUY who is quick to convict and believes in guilt before innocence, without ever hearing the other side of a story.  And keep being that creepy dude who archives posts for 7+ years to re-reference.

[GGGG]

Go read Brew's post above mine in that thread...But hey dude, keep being THAT GUY who is quick to convict and believes in guilt before innocence, without ever hearing the other side of a story.  And keep being that creepy dude who archives posts for 7+ years to re-reference.

Gladly.