Not Over Yet

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

TAMU

I have been saying for two weeks they can earn their way in. Quite simple, win their games. They have done as I expected, but hope they right the ship. If everyone is right about next year, the winning attitude has to start now. I am big believer of building at winning attitude and building off of that. To date, I have not seen evidence they know how to win.

No evidence they know how to win? I'm pretty sure they have won 14 games. It's certainly not overwhelming evidence but doing things like winning at Seton Hall down a man with several players having the flu shows a winning attitude to me.

There's definitely evidence to the contrary as well but I think saying "there's no evidence they know how to win" and questioning if they have a winning attitude seems like an unnecessary slight on the players. Other than the Butler game and the game at Xavier, there has never been a moment where I questioned the team's will to punch back. Every time other teams have made a run, Marquette has found a way to answer. It's not always enough to win (Xavier at home, Nova at home, etc), but they are always fighting. I don't see an attitude problem, I see a "we're not as good as the other guy this year" problem.

Fortunately, our guys are going to come back next season a year wiser and stronger while most of the rest of the Big East is going to come back younger and weaker. As Saint Al said, "the best thing about freshmen is that they become sophomores." Combine that with new talent in Morrow, Bailey, Joey, and Eke and I like the look of next season.

[Goose]

TAMU

I have said many times it is time for the program to move on from Al. Every time there is a time out on the Al McGuire court, I want to throw my phone on the Al McGuire court. Note— I love Al, but time to move on was about 15 years ago. If I see Bo on the court again I might boo. Note— I love Bo.

Every comment I make is based off the present. Any Al reference is simply that, a reference. My barometer is winning programs in today’s game. Programs that have improved and sustained success over past decade. I say it often, X is the current bar I would like to see program achieve.

As for Saint Al’s comment on freshmen, that decades ago. Freshmen need to compete in today’s game. Our freshmen have hardly stood out thus far. A couple of nice games, but barely role players on a team with 14 wins.

If you believe that this team has a winning culture, good for you. Wojo always says play with urgency in the time outs and I am still waiting for the to play like their backs are against the wall.

Like Buzz or hate Buzz, but his teams played with urgency. So, aside from X, I guess I use Saint Buzz at what the program can achieve.

[brewcity77]

If they go 4-1 the rest of the way and end up in Dayton, they've earned the bid. You don't earn the bid based on any criteria beyond how your resume stacks up against the rest of the country. If it is determined that you have one of the best 36 resumes of teams to not win their conference tournament, you have earned the bid, period.

At the end of the day, wins against Seton Hall, Providence, Vermont, LSU, and Creighton (we need at least one to have a real shot) would be valuable and better than what some of the other teams on the cut line have.

The biggest worry for MU fans is looking at the top-16 that was released. Marquette's strongest endorsement may be the lack of bad losses. Georgia is our worst and only Quadrant 2 loss. Typically minimizing bad losses was a positive, but it doesn't look like the committee is looking at losses as much as simply games you've won. Time (and obviously results) will tell but the decision to weight good wins over awful losses may put us in a tough spot if those last bids come down to us and teams like Washington and NC State.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

TAMU

I have said many times it is time for the program to move on from Al. Every time there is a time out on the Al McGuire court, I want to throw my phone on the Al McGuire court. Note— I love Al, but time to move on was about 15 years ago. If I see Bo on the court again I might boo. Note— I love Bo.

Every comment I make is based off the present. Any Al reference is simply that, a reference. My barometer is winning programs in today’s game. Programs that have improved and sustained success over past decade. I say it often, X is the current bar I would like to see program achieve.

As for Saint Al’s comment on freshmen, that decades ago. Freshmen need to compete in today’s game. Our freshmen have hardly stood out thus far. A couple of nice games, but barely role players on a team with 14 wins.

If you believe that this team has a winning culture, good for you. Wojo always says play with urgency in the time outs and I am still waiting for the to play like their backs are against the wall.

Like Buzz or hate Buzz, but his teams played with urgency. So, aside from X, I guess I use Saint Buzz at what the program can achieve.

What exactly did you expect this season?  This team is flawed.  We always knew that.  Our defense is terrible because we're forced to play to sub 6 foot guards a lot.  Our best two players are sophomores, and one is 18!  Our three freshman are in the 8 man rotation.  Our three-headed center monster is.....interesting, but intriguing.  Our only upperclassman of note can be our best player or our worst, and unfortunately for whatever reason, hasn't found an ability to be on when that 18 year old is hot.  We've been unlucky at times.  We've lost games we could have won.  We've run teams off the court with our shooting, and we've seen 2nd halves where it felt like we made 5 legitimate stops the entire half.

I think anyone here who has been a fan since before Wojo dearly misses what the program was before that.  But that time is past, and we are where we are.  All things considered, the future looks bright.  The NCAAS this season were always going to be gravy, and we still have a decent shot to get there.  Its basically the same exact situation as last year when we answered the same questions and read the same posts. 

Next season and beyond is when the clock starts.  For now, let's just enjoy what we have in front of us the rest of the season, and hopefully the Amigos get hot and find a way into the big dance.  This sure isn't a team some 5 or 6 seed is going to want to see, especially one that doesn't know us as well as other BE squads. 

[Goose]

J5

I got what I expected this year. My only frustration is guys on here waiting for the tooth fairy to give them a bid. They are not very good and not shocked by that.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Wait, saying win every day doesn't make us have a winning culture? 

Couldn't agree with you more about moving on from Al. Something that I've believed since before I was a student at Marquette. But just because it's past time for us to move on from Al doesn't mean there aren't things that can be learned from him and that era.

Al's comments were decades ago but they still hold true today IMHO. If they didn't, the top of the standings wouldn't be dominated by teams led by seniors and juniors.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

J5

I got what I expected this year. My only frustration is guys on here waiting for the tooth fairy to give them a bid. They are not very good and not shocked by that.

Not sure who exactly you're referring to with regard to the bolded, but I don't think informing interested parties and discussing it with others that enjoy the topic is worth getting frustrated about.  Just ignore the conversation if you're so convinced this isn't a tourney team that the mere discussion of what it would take to get there frustrates you.

[Goose]

J5

My frustration stems from my belief of many on here having rose colored glasses on in regards to the program. I have said good win, as recently as last week, and want to say it more often. The pro Wojo guys do not have one negative belief on the program. I do not think that is healthy.

I want to add, as a positive for this year’s team, they have three more wins than I expected them to have at this point. That is a positive.

My point in the tooth fairy is simple, how about they get really good and only worry about where they are playing and not hoping for a miracle?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

J5

I got what I expected this year. My only frustration is guys on here waiting for the tooth fairy to give them a bid. They are not very good and not shocked by that.

Who is expecting that?

The team that demolished Seton Hall at home, took X/Nova to the wire, and won at Providence is an NCAA tournament team....not only that but probably one with a high seed.

The team that got embarrassed by Butler, nearly shat itself against Eastern Illinois, and destroyed by Xavier on the road is not even worthy of an NIT bid...or any postseason bid.

Marquette is both of these teams. Most nights, they are somewhere between those two teams. Marquette has the capacity to play like an NCAA tournament team the rest of the way and if they do they will earn a bid. The opposite could also happen. That's why we watch the games. Those of us who are hopeful that Marquette will play closer to its ceiling than its floor are not waiting for the tooth fairy. We are discussing what it will take for us to win.

[Goose]

J5

Better talent and better coaching will achieve the goal. Talent is not there, thus coaching has to be perfect. IMO the freshmen are decent players, but far from studs at this point. They need better players to reach the next level.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

J5

My frustration stems from my belief of many on here having rose colored glasses on in regards to the program. I have said good win, as recently as last week, and want to say it more often. The pro Wojo guys do not have one negative belief on the program. I do not think that is healthy.

I want to add, as a positive for this year’s team, they have three more wins than I expected them to have at this point. That is a positive.

My point in the tooth fairy is simple, how about they get really good and only worry about where they are playing and not hoping for a miracle?

I have plenty of negative beliefs about the program, especially in regards to this season. In fact, the negative ones outweigh the positive ones for this year. The defense is an embarrassment, we seem to lead D1 in midseason transfers, it took until the Providence game for our guards to figure out how to properly defend a pick and roll, lack of a PG is becoming a more and more apparent problem.  Don't make the mistake of confusing "not dwelling on the negative" with "not seeing the negative."

And yes, next season, I have more positive beliefs than negative ones. This rebuild has always been about year 5 and that is why I (and I believe others) have been patient. That will change very quickly if it doesn't happen.

[Goose]

TAMU

My point is the state of the program as a whole. I could not care less a bout an individual season being down. IMO, light years away from being at X level. I repeat, my comments are based off overall state of program and not this season.

[barfolomew]

Going back to the original subject line: It IS over.

There was never really a chance to begin with.
Anyone who still thinks there is a chance is lying to him/herself.

It's O-V-E-R.
We'll never get Goose to use the quote feature.

[bilsu]

Georgetown just won at Butler for their second straight win tying MU in the win column.
St John's has two straight wins and plays DePaul next, which means after tomorrow's game either St. John's will have won three straight games or DePaul will have won two straight games.
Marquette may not even finish as high as 7th in Big East.

[BM1090]

Georgetown just won at Butler for their second straight win tying MU in the win column.
St John's has two straight wins and plays DePaul next, which means after tomorrow's game either St. John's will have won three straight games or DePaul will have won two straight games.
Marquette may not even finish as high as 7th in Big East.

Maybe. Definitely possible. Or we could finish 9-9 and legitimately be in a tie for 4th with Butler/Providence/SHU all slumping.

[Spaniel with a Short Tail]

Nice discourse here. I've been in agreement with TAMU pretty much all season long.

It's undisputed that Theo was flu stricken and unable to play the last couple of days. And it's been represented that Markus has also been under the weather and it may have affected his game. Are there any other players who it appears may also have been afflicted, negatively impacting the team's fortunes? I'm also unsure if other teams have been impacted.

[Newsdreams]

News

'77 team was preseason #1. They were hardly major underdogs in the NCAA.

They had become a disappointment at that point they had too many loses even Al thought he would end up in the NIT. Had lost to unranked Depaul and Wichita State. I was about to go to MU and that team was followed down here every single game, Butch had already played for The PR Olympic team. MU didn't win 20 games during the season which was one of the standards back then and which people wrongly still bring up as a requirement around here. And of course that team was a really good team but they had a disappointing regular season.

[GooooMarquette]

They had become a disappointment at that point they had too many loses even Al thought he would end up in the NIT. Had lost to unranked Depaul and Wichita State. I was about to go to MU and that team was followed down here every single game, Butch had already played for The PR Olympic team. MU didn't win 20 games during the season which was one of the standards back then and which people wrongly still bring up as a requirement around here. And of course that team was a really good team but they had a disappointing regular season.

Affirmative.  MU was preseason #1 and certainly had a ton of talent, but by selection time there were serious questions about whether we would even get a bid.  So yes, we were major underdogs in the tournament. 

[Newsdreams]

Affirmative.  MU was preseason #1 and certainly had a ton of talent, but by selection time there were serious questions about whether we would even get a bid.  So yes, we were major underdogs in the tournament.
Correct we were a "cinderella" team.

[Goose]

News and Goooo

Thank you for the history lesson. Learn something every day, much appreciated.

[CTWarrior]

As of right now, they're not in the tournament.  If they had played Georgetown 2x and Depaul 2x instead of Xavier 2x and Nova 2x, we'd probably be 7-6, not 5-8, and projected in the tournament.  But we'd have to play X and Nova again.

We have a favorable schedule to finish the season.  Win the games your supposed to win, and the rest will take care of itself.

There is a problem here.  Of our remaining games, I'd say the only ones we're "supposed to" win are SJU and at DePaul, and neither of those are a guarantee.  I don't think we're supposed to win at Georgetown or against Creighton.  If we only win the games we're supposed to win we'll finish 16-14 and maybe not in the NIT.  We have to win at least 2 games we're not supposed to win and not lose any we are.

[The Lens]

is this 5 year plan thing real?  I know it sets up well for a 5th year peak but back in 2014 or 2015 did we ever officially hear that we are building for success in Year 5?

[Lennys Tap]

They had become a disappointment at that point they had too many loses even Al thought he would end up in the NIT. Had lost to unranked Depaul and Wichita State. I was about to go to MU and that team was followed down here every single game, Butch had already played for The PR Olympic team. MU didn't win 20 games during the season which was one of the standards back then and which people wrongly still bring up as a requirement around here. And of course that team was a really good team but they had a disappointing regular season.

Actually, MU did win 20 in the regular season (our record was 20-7). Things looked grim when we stood at 16-6 and were finishing the season with 5 road games. We won the first 4 to get to 20-6 and led Michigan (who I think was #2 in the country) big at halftime when Al got the word that we were "in".

The '77 team was untypical for Al - his teams had been virtually unbeatable at home. Our arena record was 11-5 that year, but we were 9-2 on the road and 5-0 on neutral sites, so 14-2 away from Milwaukee.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

There is a problem here.  Of our remaining games, I'd say the only ones we're "supposed to" win are SJU and at DePaul, and neither of those are a guarantee.  I don't think we're supposed to win at Georgetown or against Creighton.  If we only win the games we're supposed to win we'll finish 16-14 and maybe not in the NIT.  We have to win at least 2 games we're not supposed to win and not lose any we are.

According to TRANK, Marquette is favored in their last 4 games of the season.  According to Sagrin, Marquette is favored in 3/5 games, and one of the 2 games they are not currently favored to win (vs. Creighton) is a close to a pick em. 

So yes, Marquette is supposed to win vs. SJU, @Depaul, and @Gtown, and vs. Creighton is a coin flip. I am not just arbitrarily making stuff up.

[79Warrior]

Georgetown just won at Butler for their second straight win tying MU in the win column.
St John's has two straight wins and plays DePaul next, which means after tomorrow's game either St. John's will have won three straight games or DePaul will have won two straight games.
Marquette may not even finish as high as 7th in Big East.

Yep. Totally agree.