I place this all on the coaching staff.

[skianth16]

I hope we can pull this thread up next year at this time.  I suspect we will be solidly in the field and looking to have a good tournament.  If I am wrong, I'll be here changing my tune on Wojo.  This years team is very close, but we are missing two things.  A guard, who can guard  - to bad Cheatem and Duane are not here.  Either one of them, I feel, would be just enough to get us over the hump.  Second, we are missing a guy like Morrow.  So the Morrow box is checked for next year.

Froling is coming along nicely.  I really look at him as a Redshirt Freshman.  Even if we don't get that guard who can defend, I think the team next year will be better than this year.  We will miss Rowsey on offense when we really need it, but we are adding a lot.

Add a guard who can defend, preferably a combo or point guard, and next years team will finally be a team with all of the pieces.  That assumes no crucial defections this summer/fall.   

I still have great hope/expectations and I am not down on Wojo at all... I love the style of play on offense and having shooters is so much enjoyable to watch (I could hardly stand to watch some of the Buzz teams, and even some Crean teams). From the beginning, this was not expected to be a quick rebuild ala Buzz.  It was going to be a process, rebuild of the team and culture (from a basketball coach who saw himself and HIS team as separate from the University to a student athlete approach more inline with the administration, etc).  Really a major change in who gets recruited, etc.  Again, was going to be a process to establish a student athlete approach and that process is well underway and established.  Now it is time to build on the base that has been established.  We are in a good position to do so.

Pulling this thread up to show that we're better at this point next year doesn't show any improvement in Wojo's ability to coach. We'll be starting 3 or 4 juniors and we'll have a solid presence on the interior. That removes 2 of the the 3 major deficiencies of this year's team (defensive ability will still be in question). From the looks of next year's roster, I think just about any coach in the country could get that group into the tournament. Realistically, that's a pretty low bar for next year's group.

In terms of addressing the things we're missing this year, that has to fall to Wojo. Yeah, yeah, I get it, guys transfer all over the country. But I think it's more than a little naive to think that guys are choosing to leave (mid-season even!) a program that they truly enjoy being a part of. Losing guys you plan to rely on might just be bad luck, but it might also be the result of the environment within the program that has been set by the coaching staff. And then not having a big man? Wojo and Co. might have made a bad choice with Harry. It sure isn't panning out so far. And they've had just as much opportunity as anyone else to recruit high level big men. Instead, we got a bit of a project in Eke and a bunch of guards, one who may also be a project after being out of the game for 2 years.

Also, we'll probably have to agree to disagree about Wojo's teams vs. Buzz's teams, but it seems odd to me that you like seeing guys hit 3's and play no defense over watching NBA draft picks drive to the hoop and create their own shot while being able to get stops when needed. To each his own, but there's a reason Buzz's teams consistently outperformed the current Wojo teams.

[jesmu84]

Pulling this thread up to show that we're better at this point next year doesn't show any improvement in Wojo's ability to coach. We'll be starting 3 or 4 juniors and we'll have a solid presence on the interior. That removes 2 of the the 3 major deficiencies of this year's team (defensive ability will still be in question). From the looks of next year's roster, I think just about any coach in the country could get that group into the tournament. Realistically, that's a pretty low bar for next year's group.

In terms of addressing the things we're missing this year, that has to fall to Wojo. Yeah, yeah, I get it, guys transfer all over the country. But I think it's more than a little naive to think that guys are choosing to leave (mid-season even!) a program that they truly enjoy being a part of. Losing guys you plan to rely on might just be bad luck, but it might also be the result of the environment within the program that has been set by the coaching staff. And then not having a big man? Wojo and Co. might have made a bad choice with Harry. It sure isn't panning out so far. And they've had just as much opportunity as anyone else to recruit high level big men. Instead, we got a bit of a project in Eke and a bunch of guards, one who may also be a project after being out of the game for 2 years.

Also, we'll probably have to agree to disagree about Wojo's teams vs. Buzz's teams, but it seems odd to me that you like seeing guys hit 3's and play no defense over watching NBA draft picks drive to the hoop and create their own shot while being able to get stops when needed. To each his own, but there's a reason Buzz's teams consistently outperformed the current Wojo teams.

Thanks for demonstrating you are nothing but anti-wojo. That's all you care about.

[skianth16]

Thanks for demonstrating you are nothing but anti-wojo. That's all you care about.

I'm just a realist, my man. Once he's shown he's done more than just recruit top guys, I may change my tune.

I'll also be curious to see if he'll be able to land top guys who's brothers aren't already on our team.

[Its DJOver]

Pulling this thread up to show that we're better at this point next year doesn't show any improvement in Wojo's ability to coach. We'll be starting 3 or 4 juniors and we'll have a solid presence on the interior. That removes 2 of the the 3 major deficiencies of this year's team (defensive ability will still be in question). From the looks of next year's roster, I think just about any coach in the country could get that group into the tournament. Realistically, that's a pretty low bar for next year's group.

In terms of addressing the things we're missing this year, that has to fall to Wojo. Yeah, yeah, I get it, guys transfer all over the country. But I think it's more than a little naive to think that guys are choosing to leave (mid-season even!) a program that they truly enjoy being a part of. Losing guys you plan to rely on might just be bad luck, but it might also be the result of the environment within the program that has been set by the coaching staff. And then not having a big man? Wojo and Co. might have made a bad choice with Harry. It sure isn't panning out so far. And they've had just as much opportunity as anyone else to recruit high level big men. Instead, we got a bit of a project in Eke and a bunch of guards, one who may also be a project after being out of the game for 2 years.

Also, we'll probably have to agree to disagree about Wojo's teams vs. Buzz's teams, but it seems odd to me that you like seeing guys hit 3's and play no defense over watching NBA draft picks drive to the hoop and create their own shot while being able to get stops when needed. To each his own, but there's a reason Buzz's teams consistently outperformed the current Wojo teams.

If you're gonna discredit Wojo for having a young team this year you have to credit him for having an experienced team next year.  All coaches have some young teams and some old teams, we had an old team last year and a young team this year. 
Also its a bit early to completely write off Harry 15 games into a 2.5 year career. 
The transfer numbers have been analyzed multiple times so you must just choosing to ignore them.
I understand that this year is frustrating, but part of that is because people (not necessarily you) had unrealistic expectations coming in.  No offense to anyone, but I'd trust the coaches preseason prediction more than anyone here,(they've gotten it pretty spot on) its their job to know more about basketball than us.  If you don't want another disappointing season next year, you might want to slightly alter your expectations, November is a long way off.

[jesmu84]

I'm just a realist, my man. Once he's shown he's done more than just recruit top guys, I may change my tune.

I'll also be curious to see if he'll be able to land top guys who's brothers aren't already on our team.

Your second paragraph is all about tearing Wojo down because of his roster management/building.

But your first paragraph is all about how next year proves nothing because even though Wojo will have done a good job building the roster.

So...

[Its DJOver]

I'll also be curious to see if he'll be able to land top guys who's brothers aren't already on our team.

If we had this roster + Jordan Howard and had this record, your anti-Wojo agenda would be much more valid

[skianth16]

If you're gonna discredit Wojo for having a young team this year you have to credit him for having an experienced team next year.  All coaches have some young teams and some old teams, we had an old team last year and a young team this year. 
Also its a bit early to completely write off Harry 15 games into a 2.5 year career. 
The transfer numbers have been analyzed multiple times so you must just choosing to ignore them.
I understand that this year is frustrating, but part of that is because people (not necessarily you) had unrealistic expectations coming in.  No offense to anyone, but I'd trust the coaches preseason prediction more than anyone here,(they've gotten it pretty spot on) its their job to know more about basketball than us.  If you don't want another disappointing season next year, you might want to slightly alter your expectations, November is a long way off.

I'm not discrediting Wojo for the young team. I'm just saying that it's one of the most commonly brought up talking points when we underperform, but roster construction falls to the coaching staff. Wojo wasn't dealt this hand, his decisions played a very big role in the youth of this year's team.

For transfers, my major point is that we lose a guy or two per year, like most programs, but we seem to lose much more critical pieces than other programs. Looking at just the number of transfers alone assumes that losing a starter is equal to losing a deep bench guy, and that's obviously not true. I'm concerned with who transfers much more than the fact that they occur. And since there's been this pattern of losing guys we expect to play solid minutes, that concerns me.

[skianth16]

If we had this roster + Jordan Howard and had this record, your anti-Wojo agenda would be much more valid

The 2 highest ranked recruits he's landed have been H Ellenson and J Hauser. I had to use the first initials to make sure we knew which brother I was talking about.

Landing Markus was great, and he was a good recruit, but Stan being on the coaching staff that Markus originally committed to doesn't exactly prove that Wojo is the guy that's making all this happen.

[Its DJOver]

I'm not discrediting Wojo for the young team. I'm just saying that it's one of the most commonly brought up talking points when we underperform, but roster construction falls to the coaching staff. Wojo wasn't dealt this hand, his decisions played a very big role in the youth of this year's team.

For transfers, my major point is that we lose a guy or two per year, like most programs, but we seem to lose much more critical pieces than other programs. Looking at just the number of transfers alone assumes that losing a starter is equal to losing a deep bench guy, and that's obviously not true. I'm concerned with who transfers much more than the fact that they occur. And since there's been this pattern of losing guys we expect to play solid minutes, that concerns me.

Sandy wan't gonna get minutes, Traci wasn't gonna get minutes, Haanif was likely to see his minutes drop significantly unless he jumped back to his freshman form, Duane saw his minutes drop because he was assigned a different role. 
Compare that with the transfers Wojo has brought in.  Carlino was a good get, KR was a good get, I know you don't like Harry, but its too early to tell with him, Rowsey certainly has his flaws, but was a good get, Wally was a special situation but I don't think too many people minded him coming to mostly sit on the bench.  If there were an NCAA rule prohibiting transfers, and we only had players recruited out of high school, we don't make the tournament last year, bottom line, we also likely don't make the tournament next year.  If you would take Sandy, Traci, and Duane, over KR, AR, and EM you would be the only one.

[Its DJOver]

The 2 highest ranked recruits he's landed have been H Ellenson and J Hauser. I had to use the first initials to make sure we knew which brother I was talking about.

Landing Markus was great, and he was a good recruit, but Stan being on the coaching staff that Markus originally committed to doesn't exactly prove that Wojo is the guy that's making all this happen.

So Wojo only gets the easy All Americans?
As Wojo pointed out when discussing Joey, if Sam/Wally were not having a good experience at MU, Henry and Joey don't come, having a brother just makes the recruitment situation different, not necessarily easier.

[4everwarriors]

I do not understand why there are some of you who want wojo to get the boot. You do realize that if wojo were to be fired we would have to start the rebuild all over again. Recruits leave, players leave,etc. It would be 2014-15 all over again. I'm guessing nobody here wants to relive that nightmare. Firing wojo is a fantastically stupid idea.

Terrible reason knot ta give Wojo da Heave Ho, hey?

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

Terrible reason knot ta give Wojo da Heave Ho, hey?

Not really.

[skianth16]

Your second paragraph is all about tearing Wojo down because of his roster management/building.

But your first paragraph is all about how next year proves nothing because even though Wojo will have done a good job building the roster.

So...

Noting that the deficiencies in the current roster weren't just simply misfortune isn't the same as tearing down his roster building. I'm frustrated that the rebuild has taken so long and that the progress hasn't felt consistent. He's done a nice job of getting what looks to be a great team together for next year, but it's been tough to watch some of the key pieces of next year's team falter down the stretch this year.

I've got to think that he expected to make the tournament and get 20+ wins this year in October. Then he lost a starter, and his big man that he was so high on didn't pan out. Don't you think he was trying to put the pieces in place to win this year?

[Floorslapper]

Sandy wan't gonna get minutes, Traci wasn't gonna get minutes, Haanif was likely to see his minutes drop significantly unless he jumped back to his freshman form, Duane saw his minutes drop because he was assigned a different role. 
Compare that with the transfers Wojo has brought in.  Carlino was a good get, KR was a good get, I know you don't like Harry, but its too early to tell with him, Rowsey certainly has his flaws, but was a good get, Wally was a special situation but I don't think too many people minded him coming to mostly sit on the bench.  If there were an NCAA rule prohibiting transfers, and we only had players recruited out of high school, we don't make the tournament last year, bottom line, we also likely don't make the tournament next year.  If you would take Sandy, Traci, and Duane, over KR, AR, and EM you would be the only one.

Traci Carter was a loss.  Coaching staff did try like hell to convince him to stay.  May not have played a ton this year, but could have been red shirted and been the PG we sorely will need next year.  Even if Traci were not redshirted, having him eligible this season, would have given Wojo a CLEAR change up at PG position - one who was a tenacious defender, and was in total pass first mode.

Traci will be a star at LaSalle.  Could have been really good here.  He was Tony Miller 2.0 in my opinion.

[Its DJOver]

I'm frustrated that the rebuild has taken so long and that the progress hasn't felt consistent.

4-14, 8-10, 10-8, ?-?. Other than the question marks that's fairly consistent, yea we're likely not gonna finish better this year, but as it has been pointed out we're significantly younger, and the Beast is significantly better

[4everwarriors]

We are a performance based society whether millenials like or not. Either you can do the job or not. If not, there will be someone who can and you'll be replaced. Just that simple and not hard to understand. Attaboy awards don't cut it, aina?

[Its DJOver]

Traci Carter was a loss.  Coaching staff did try like hell to convince him to stay.  May not have played a ton this year, but could have been red shirted and been the PG we sorely will need next year.  Even if Traci were not redshirted, having him eligible this season, would have given Wojo a CLEAR change up at PG position - one who was a tenacious defender, and was in total pass first mode.

Traci will be a star at LaSalle.  Could have been really good here.  He was Tony Miller 2.0 in my opinion.

Its an awful tough sell to convince someone to take a non-medical redshirt in their third year.  we'll never know what he could have done here next year, but his transfer was a case of best situation for everyone.  Also who doesn't come if he stays? I think all of the freshman, with the possible expectation of Ike have a higher ceiling than Traci. 

[skianth16]

Sandy wan't gonna get minutes, Traci wasn't gonna get minutes, Haanif was likely to see his minutes drop significantly unless he jumped back to his freshman form, Duane saw his minutes drop because he was assigned a different role. 
Compare that with the transfers Wojo has brought in.  Carlino was a good get, KR was a good get, I know you don't like Harry, but its too early to tell with him, Rowsey certainly has his flaws, but was a good get, Wally was a special situation but I don't think too many people minded him coming to mostly sit on the bench.  If there were an NCAA rule prohibiting transfers, and we only had players recruited out of high school, we don't make the tournament last year, bottom line, we also likely don't make the tournament next year.  If you would take Sandy, Traci, and Duane, over KR, AR, and EM you would be the only one.

I've said a number of times that I think we've come out in a net positive situation from transfers because we've gained some really good guys. Losing guys like Duane, Haanif, Deonte, even Steve Taylor makes you wonder what goes on in the locker room. I know there are going to be some special circumstances, but it doesn't reflect well on the program to lose guys that were contributors or go on somewhere else to be solid players.

The idea that we could be better if some of our transfers had stayed - Duane and HC this year - shows that we're losing good players. I do think Wojo has done a great job of filling the transfer holes, but it has to happen too frequently for my liking. I don't remember this happening under our other coaches. Scott Christopherson might be one exception.

[Its DJOver]

I've said a number of times that I think we've come out in a net positive situation from transfers because we've gained some really good guys. Losing guys like Duane, Haanif, Deonte, even Steve Taylor makes you wonder what goes on in the locker room. I know there are going to be some special circumstances, but it doesn't reflect well on the program to lose guys that were contributors or go on somewhere else to be solid players.

The idea that we could be better if some of our transfers had stayed - Duane and HC this year - shows that we're losing good players. I do think Wojo has done a great job of filling the transfer holes, but it has to happen too frequently for my liking. I don't remember this happening under our other coaches. Scott Christopherson might be one exception.

Players leave because there is someone younger and better at their position, this is a good problem to have.  I can't say for sure, because I was not recruited out of high school to play basketball, but I doubt that many recruits will turn down a program just because they have had players leave (exceptions include situations like Louisville, and Colorado State this year, and that situation at Rutgers a few years back).

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

We are a performance based society whether millenials like or not. Either you can do the job or not. If not, there will be someone who can and you'll be replaced. Just that simple and not hard to understand. Attaboy awards don't cut it, aina?

No one in there right mind expected Marquette to be a top 25 team this year.  Most expected a bubble team, or worse.  Not sure why MU would move on from Wojo when this years team has been exactly what must expected, especially when the future rosters looks very promising. 

[skianth16]

No one in there right mind expected Marquette to be a top 25 team this year.  Most expected a bubble team, or worse.  Not sure why MU would move on from Wojo when this years team has been exactly what must expected, especially when the future rosters looks very promising.

I think most expected a bubble team or worse back in October. In January, after getting what appeared to be some good non-con wins and then beating PC on the road and dominating then-ranked Seton Hall, expectations for many were that we'd be a solid tournament team. Maybe that was unfair and we had just played a few really great games, but I think it's normal for expectations to change mid-season. And then when those are not met, it can be pretty disappointing.

[Goose]

J5

This is team is exactly what I expected them to be, not very good. They did surprise me with the explosive individual scoring and that kept me interested. Only thing we differ on is, my lack of major optimism for next season. I do not see how they make significant improvements next season. I have watched my share of ball and I do not see high talent pool in the program. There are several nice players, one explosive scorer and role players coming back next year.

With the optimism many have for next year, how many feel MU is a preseason top 25 team in October? I think little to no chance. Again, they met my expectations for this season and believe they will again next year. I think at BEST a bubble team next year.

[Its DJOver]

J5

This is team is exactly what I expected them to be, not very good. They did surprise me with the explosive individual scoring and that kept me interested. Only thing we differ on is, my lack of major optimism for next season. I do not see how they make significant improvements next season. I have watched my share of ball and I do not see high talent pool in the program. There are several nice players, one explosive scorer and role players coming back next year.

With the optimism many have for next year, how many feel MU is a preseason top 25 team in October? I think little to no chance. Again, they met my expectations for this season and believe they will again next year. I think at BEST a bubble team next year.

I agree that we're not preseason top 25, but solely based on the fact that we should beat becky and the field for the pre-season NIT, I would not be at all surprised to be receiving votes in early December, especially if we get a favorable Gavitt game.  I think all of those are winable, and I can't see us scheduling many other non-buy games. Maybe a home-and-home, but that would be it.

[tower912]

I blame the preseason pollsters who projected this team to finish between 6th and 8th in the Big East.    Rat bastards. 

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

J5

This is team is exactly what I expected them to be, not very good. They did surprise me with the explosive individual scoring and that kept me interested. Only thing we differ on is, my lack of major optimism for next season. I do not see how they make significant improvements next season. I have watched my share of ball and I do not see high talent pool in the program. There are several nice players, one explosive scorer and role players coming back next year.

With the optimism many have for next year, how many feel MU is a preseason top 25 team in October? I think little to no chance. Again, they met my expectations for this season and believe they will again next year. I think at BEST a bubble team next year.

All are certainly welcome to their own opinion.

I think it exciting that we're returning basically our entire team. We'll be fairly experienced next season.  Ed Morrow is going to be a huge boost. If you haven't seen him play, you're going to be delighted when you do. He is a really good basketball player and will give us an interior presence we have so sorely lacked in the Wojo's tenure. I like Rowsey a lot...he is a talented scorer, but the fact that our two best players both play the same position, both are sub 6 feet, and both suck defensively has given this team serious limitiations.  I think that problem will mostly solve itself by subtraction. 

Joey and Bailey are high major players we'll add to the mix.  I think what happens with the open schollie and the PG situation is what will decide if this team is a middle of the pack BE team, or a top 25 team.  I suspect Wojo will be hot after PG grad transfers. I don't think we need to add an elite PG to be good, but just a solid defensive player that can hit open shots and find his teammates would be a huge addition to this team.  There will be several guys that fit that bill that will become available in the next few months.