Just one game ago people were praising the coaching staff. Gotta love fandom.
Taking this one step further, but also on the coaching staff, is the fact that talent level is not on par with other Big East teams.
Havent posted in a while, but today was the topper. This team is incredibly soft and that is the fault of the coaching staff. Tough teams win, we are far from tough. As bad or even worse there is no culture that defense wins games. The culture has been non - existent under this staff. First couple years excuses were made. Last year excuses were made this year the problem is we are young. Well last year we were old.Thanks for posting your thoughts on the subject matter and supporting them with detailed analysis. Good discussion points.
The culture of this program is to play ole defense n show zero energy or toughness on defense, but to then run down n play with energy on the offensive end.
Harry Froling is a horrible defensive player. He is everything you do not want on the defensive end. Slow, soft, weak, and shows no toughness. So what does Wojo do a few weeks ago? He plugs him into the starting lineup. Reward the worst defensive player on one of the worst defensive teams in the nation with a starting spot. 100% of the culture of this team is defense does not matter.
All anyone needs to do is watch Markus Howard play defense. Granted Rowsey is bad at defense but he is all hustle. Howards idea of defense is what one does to rest in between chucking bad 3’s, losing his dribble, or missing layups.
A team and a coach that has a defense first mentality and a championship winning mentality does not allow them to literally give zero effort on defense without taking them out of the game. And making the point that defense comes first. You dont play defense like your hair is on fire, then you dont play.
There are hundreds of examples of this but all any MU fan needs to do to sum up this entire season, previous seasons and this programs culture is to watch SJU’s possesion with 3:34 left in the second half. Ponds has the ball on the left wing outside the 3 pt line. Howards man is in the right corner weakside. Howards is correctly in helpside stradding the block. From there Ponds attack his defender to the right and dribbles to the ft line n then down the right side lane line, taking 9 steps in the process. During these 9 steps Howard never moves and watches the entire play. The most he can muster is a small hand slap low block attempt as Ponds lays it in for a 3 pt play. 9 steps and howard cannot slide even 1 step to put himself in a position to take a charge. Sure if he does Ponds kicks to the corner but that is hiw defense is supposed to be played. We dont even try. This happens all the time there is literally not effort to play defense and no consequence for nit even trying. Just run down n jack up another 3. That is how you give up a horrendous shooting percentages night after night.
That play would have gotten an ear chewing and a place on the bench from any MU coach since Dukiet. But our coach wants to talk about youth n refs. This is just one play but it was the one to cause me to turn the game off, and ut happens over n over with these Wojo coached teams. They play defense with the energy, toughness, and softness of an over 40 church league. Its pathetic and I will no longer defend Wojo. I now truly have my doubts as to whether we made the right call. Im afraid the kid out at ASU was the Duke kid that has what it take to rebuild this program.
Havent posted in a while, but today was the topper. This team is incredibly soft and that is the fault of the coaching staff. Tough teams win, we are far from tough. As bad or even worse there is no culture that defense wins games. The culture has been non - existent under this staff. First couple years excuses were made. Last year excuses were made this year the problem is we are young. Well last year we were old.Wow. Certainly can tell from your windy post that you haven't commented for a while. Have you ever heard of executive summaries.
The culture of this program is to play ole defense n show zero energy or toughness on defense, but to then run down n play with energy on the offensive end.
Harry Froling is a horrible defensive player. He is everything you do not want on the defensive end. Slow, soft, weak, and shows no toughness. So what does Wojo do a few weeks ago? He plugs him into the starting lineup. Reward the worst defensive player on one of the worst defensive teams in the nation with a starting spot. 100% of the culture of this team is defense does not matter.
All anyone needs to do is watch Markus Howard play defense. Granted Rowsey is bad at defense but he is all hustle. Howards idea of defense is what one does to rest in between chucking bad 3’s, losing his dribble, or missing layups.
A team and a coach that has a defense first mentality and a championship winning mentality does not allow them to literally give zero effort on defense without taking them out of the game. And making the point that defense comes first. You dont play defense like your hair is on fire, then you dont play.
There are hundreds of examples of this but all any MU fan needs to do to sum up this entire season, previous seasons and this programs culture is to watch SJU’s possesion with 3:34 left in the second half. Ponds has the ball on the left wing outside the 3 pt line. Howards man is in the right corner weakside. Howards is correctly in helpside stradding the block. From there Ponds attack his defender to the right and dribbles to the ft line n then down the right side lane line, taking 9 steps in the process. During these 9 steps Howard never moves and watches the entire play. The most he can muster is a small hand slap low block attempt as Ponds lays it in for a 3 pt play. 9 steps and howard cannot slide even 1 step to put himself in a position to take a charge. Sure if he does Ponds kicks to the corner but that is hiw defense is supposed to be played. We dont even try. This happens all the time there is literally not effort to play defense and no consequence for nit even trying. Just run down n jack up another 3. That is how you give up a horrendous shooting percentages night after night.
That play would have gotten an ear chewing and a place on the bench from any MU coach since Dukiet. But our coach wants to talk about youth n refs. This is just one play but it was the one to cause me to turn the game off, and ut happens over n over with these Wojo coached teams. They play defense with the energy, toughness, and softness of an over 40 church league. Its pathetic and I will no longer defend Wojo. I now truly have my doubts as to whether we made the right call. Im afraid the kid out at ASU was the Duke kid that has what it take to rebuild this program.
Considering who started this thread, I thought for sure that the blame would be on Luke.
Luke would be so good for the team this year.You have to be kidding.
Not really a zone proponent but we went to the zone a few times n effectively stopped the drive n got a few turnovers n then left it for no known reason
You have to be kidding.
As in he would be a huge upgrade. You must be the one kidding. Who could you possibly prefer at C over Luke?Luke was not very good. I would take Theo over Luke.
Here is my take-away from this thread ... Sant-Knit is an idiot.
I mean you could gather that from just lurking here for a few days. The grammer makes me want to gouge my eyes out.
The grammer makes me want to gouge my eyes out.
Luke was not very good. I would take Theo over Luke.Theo may develop into a great player, but to compare his brief moments and one good game to Luke's three years is a pretty ungrateful disservice.
Luke was not very good. I would take Theo over Luke.
If you read this board you come away with the impression that MU has never lost a game in its 101-year history.
When the "lose" a game, it has nothing to do with the other team playing well, it has nothing to do with our guys not playing well, it is always the coaching staff. So in 101 years, we have had two outcomes to every game ... win or our coaches don't know what they are doing.
Look what we are arguing here .. Ponds single-handily beat Duke and Nova (in Philly!). In the last week, he has looked like the national player of the year.
Then he drops 44 on MU, a new home record for St. Johns. Can we tip our hat and just say "wow" he played great and deserved to win. No, on MUscoop the other team is irrelevant. MU has the ability to beat the Golden State Warriors if Wojo knew how to coach defense. The other team, and what they did, never counts.
Hey Sand-knit, when Howard dropped 52 on Providence, did you think that was an average performance against an embarrassingly bad defense that caused that many points? Did Howard just get lucky that Providence was the keystone cops on defense? Or maybe, just maybe, Howard was simply awesome and no one was going to stop him. So, why can't we say the same about Ponds today?
Here is my take-away from this thread ... Sant-Knit is an idiot.
I keep seeing people talk about Ponds scoring vs Duke and Nova and say we shouldn't be upset that he put up 44 vs us, because he did it vs them. My critique against this is that, we saw what he did vs Duke and Nova, so we should have been more aware and been even more prepared because he had just done that in their past two games. It's a game of adjustments. Remember when teams weren't chasing our two guards off of the 3 point line and now everyone focuses their defense to not allow Howard and Rowsey get good looks at 3, that's what Wojo's focus should have been in this game, not allow Ponds to get going and throw everything he had at trying to stop him. Oh, he's a good player, let's not try to adjust to having two game tapes the in the last week and see that this man is a one man wrecking crew, and just let him kill us as well.
Hold Ponds ta 35 pts. And MU wins. Duzant seam sew hard. Scorin' mattas, aina?
I keep seeing people talk about Ponds scoring vs Duke and Nova and say we shouldn't be upset that he put up 44 vs us, because he did it vs them. My critique against this is that, we saw what he did vs Duke and Nova, so we should have been more aware and been even more prepared because he had just done that in their past two games. It's a game of adjustments. Remember when teams weren't chasing our two guards off of the 3 point line and now everyone focuses their defense to not allow Howard and Rowsey get good looks at 3, that's what Wojo's focus should have been in this game, not allow Ponds to get going and throw everything he had at trying to stop him. Oh, he's a good player, let's not try to adjust to having two game tapes the in the last week and see that this man is a one man wrecking crew, and just let him kill us as well.We do not have the personnel to cover a player like Ponds. He is quicker than every player we have. We start two guards under 6', Heldt and especially Froling are slow rotators, and Elliott and Cain have no muscle. I do not think other coaches in the Big East would be doing any better coaching our team. The team suffers from youth and lack of talent. Wojo's problem is team building. I hate to think how bad this team would be, if Rowsey did not transfer and Howard did not decomit from Arizona St.
We need to have a strong, intimidating rim protector.
Mainly missing a post presence that can score.
Here’s my take-away: we are 14-11 in the 4th year of the new regime. I think 55-46 overall. Is this where we all thought we would be? Discuss.
Here’s my take-away: we are 14-11 in the 4th year of the new regime. I think 55-46 overall. Is this where we all thought we would be? Discuss.
Phuck no. I was at MU 2006-2010 so I never missed a tournament. Granted I never made it to the second weekend but we were always solidly in (worst seed might have been an 8 against MSU my freshman year). I knew there was a rebuild to go through but I at least thought we'd be making the dance pretty easily by now.Apparently we have players that are so poor they can't stop telegraphing all their passes and a coaching staff that is so inept that they can't figure that out, much less put together x's and o's, but next year we are winning the conference! I hope you are right, but that's a hell of a lot of improvement that doesn't seem to follow.
I'm in Wojo's corner but my patience is running thin. It's been discussed many times on here that we should hire an old timer X's and O's guy as an assistant and I completely agree. The problem that I'm seeing is that we can all see the problems/solutions so vividly but the people actually calling the shots don't see the same and it's right in front of their face. It's just like watching an actual game. Everyone here probably saw those telegraphed passes yesterday or that Ponds was pulling up in front of Sam but no one did sh!t about it.
It's tough when your on your couch and can see what's going to happen or how to fix something but the powers that be don't do anything.
I do think we win the big east next year though
Here’s my take-away: we are 14-11 in the 4th year of the new regime. I think 55-46 overall. Is this where we all thought we would be? Discuss.
Phuck no. I was at MU 2006-2010 so I never missed a tournament. Granted I never made it to the second weekend but we were always solidly in (worst seed might have been an 8 against MSU my freshman year). I knew there was a rebuild to go through but I at least thought we'd be making the dance pretty easily by now.Yup. We will be really good....next year.
I'm in Wojo's corner but my patience is running thin. It's been discussed many times on here that we should hire an old timer X's and O's guy as an assistant and I completely agree. The problem that I'm seeing is that we can all see the problems/solutions so vividly but the people actually calling the shots don't see the same and it's right in front of their face. It's just like watching an actual game. Everyone here probably saw those telegraphed passes yesterday or that Ponds was pulling up in front of Sam but no one did sh!t about it.
It's tough when your on your couch and can see what's going to happen or how to fix something but the powers that be don't do anything.
I do think we win the big east next year though
Just one game ago people were praising the coaching staff. Gotta love fandom.
Tugg
I am ok with any steps backward if it means taking program to next level. We have had five years, including Buzz’s last year, of being a non factor on the national scene.
I’m saying can Wojo, but keeping him out of fear is not the answer.
Luke would be so good for the team this year.
Pearl is a potential coach of the year candidate. Floyd isn’t working.
You may want to keep up if you’re gonna make suggestions.
Street ballers? That’s the furthest thing from what our team makeup is. We sure could’ve used some street ball yesterday though
OK, bad streetballers who can do one thing -- shoot!That’s an oxymoron. How bout cobblestone ballers. Seriously though, one of my biggest complaints about Woj is how he’s changed the personality of Marquette basketball. I hate it. I will say though this freshman group embodies some of that MU personality
I'd like some aggressive street-ballers in the 1970s sense as much as anyone. But these guys are suburban streetballers!
Never been a big fan of the Duke tree, the guys that are career lifers like Wojo and Collins never really played for anyone else. Their experience is wholly Duke and they have always had the best talent. Never learned how teams not named Duke need to scrap and vlaw to win games. Also liked guys like Buzz, and Crean for that matter, that coached under numerous successful coaches and programs and can learn from many different styles n scenarios.
First, Wojo should absolutely get next year. That's a no-brainer for me. Second, here's the list if we look elsewhere:
1) Dan Hurley
The list shouldn't go any further until that option is fully exhausted. Solid defensive coach that can run his offense at multiple tempos. I'm really hoping the coaching carousel is slow this off-season so he sticks another year at URI. By the end of next year, we'll know if Wojo deserves an extension or if we need to look elsewhere.
No way Hurley does not get a big time offer.....Maybe even from somebody in the Big East in NJ or Chicago.....
4ever
I have said numerous times there was a reason why he was an assistant for some many years. Guys that want to be HC, or talented enough to be found, simply don’t spent a decade and half as second or third fiddle. That was, and is, my biggest reservation about Wojo. I wish I know why he never got a HC prior to MU.
I remember talking with Marotta prior to Shaka turning us down. Marc stated that Doc liked Wojo, and we both were floored hearing that. I have nothing against Wojo, but beginning to believe the job is too big for him.
And if we had a roster with Sam, Markus, and Morrow as seniors, it would be easy to see this being a program you could get off and running in a hurry, similar to what Buzz had in the Amigos senior year.
Never been a big fan of the Duke tree, the guys that are career lifers like Wojo and Collins never really played for anyone else. Their experience is wholly Duke and they have always had the best talent. Never learned how teams not named Duke need to scrap and vlaw to win games. Also liked guys like Buzz, and Crean for that matter, that coached under numerous successful coaches and programs and can learn from many different styles n scenarios.
Last year Chris Collins was national finalist for coach of the year. This year they aren't doing great, but I'll bet MU fans last year were going crazy for him as a coach.
Brey has done a great job at Notre Dame
ASU's coach getting them back into the conversation
Agree with you that coaching under different systems is a good thing to learn different styles that work.
Marquette picked 7th by the coaches and media. Looks like we will finish 7th so why are people surprised? We are young and lack size. That changes next year. Size and experience are eligible next season.
I honestly don't understand the Rowsey offensive hate here. His assist rate is 26.2% and his turnover rate is only 16.9%. Compare this Junior's senior year with a 28.3% AR and a 25.8% turnover rate. Is it because people do not like a shooting PG? Maybe it's his high usage?
As it stands today, his leaving means MU has a big gaping hole to fill on offense. Come on...MU has had the 8th and 14th ranked offense (this year) since he has been active. That says a lot especially with only three scorers on the roster this year.
Wojo has his work cut out trying to plug that hole.
Totally agree. I get that he gets a 5th year in large part because of the incoming class, but I have no false hope that he can be a great head coach. If that were the case we’d have strong indications by now
I know I shouldn't judge prior to 5 years on the job, but I've seen enough championship ball to form an opinion and I'm pretty sure we are now just spinning our wheels with this guy.
Totally agree. I get that he gets a 5th year in large part because of the incoming class, but I have no false hope that he can be a great head coach. If that were the case we’d have strong indications by now
4ever
I have said numerous times there was a reason why he was an assistant for some many years. Guys that want to be HC, or talented enough to be found, simply don’t spent a decade and half as second or third fiddle. That was, and is, my biggest reservation about Wojo. I wish I know why he never got a HC prior to MU.
I remember talking with Marotta prior to Shaka turning us down. Marc stated that Doc liked Wojo, and we both were floored hearing that. I have nothing against Wojo, but beginning to believe the job is too big for him.
Maybe they should start by beating the basement of the big east today. That would encourage me that Wojo has Some coaching chops and these kids have what it takes to to be on top.
Totally agree. I get that he gets a 5th year in large part because of the incoming class, but I have no false hope that he can be a great head coach. If that were the case we’d have strong indications by now
Good thing we didn't hire Tony Bennett and they gave him that 5th year at VirginiaWhat does that have to do with Woj? I’m judging Wojos coaching based on Wojos teams at Marquette. Nothing and no one else is relevant to that judgment
Year 1 no post season
Year 2 no post season
Year 3 NCAA, first round loss
Year 4 NIT
Year 5 NCAA
Currently has team in top 5 in country
Good thing we didn't hire Tony Bennett and they gave him that 5th year at Virginia
Year 1 no post season
Year 2 no post season
Year 3 NCAA, first round loss
Year 4 NIT
Year 5 NCAA
Currently has team in top 5 in country
What does that have to do with Woj? I’m judging Wojos coaching based on Wojos teams at Marquette. Nothing and no one else is relevant to that judgment
Bennett's first four years are going to yield the same results as Wojo's. No NCAA, No NCAA, NCAA, NITRight I get the parallels, but it doesn’t change my feelings. My judgment of Wojo’s coaching abilities aren’t solely based on results.
WarriorDad
I am far too lazy to do homework on your list, but my gut says Izzo is the only guy to have been assistant as long as Wojo. Plus he likely was the one of only few guys that stayed at same place the whole time. Again, I said a decade and a half + as second/third fiddle. IMO, big difference staying at one joint for 15+ years, than being a guy chasing his dream and climbing the ladder.
WarriorDad
I am far too lazy to do homework on your list, but my gut says Izzo is the only guy to have been assistant as long as Wojo. Plus he likely was the one of only few guys that stayed at same place the whole time. Again, I said a decade and a half + as second/third fiddle. IMO, big difference staying at one joint for 15+ years, than being a guy chasing his dream and climbing the ladder.
WarriorDad
I have plenty of time today, I stated I was too lazy. Thanks for your recent post, but really explains nothing. In addition, have seen that quote several times. My gut says, no real program had an interest in him.
WarriorDad
I have plenty of time today, I stated I was too lazy. Thanks for your recent post, but really explains nothing. In addition, have seen that quote several times. My gut says, no real program had an interest in him.
Good thing we didn't hire Tony Bennett and they gave him that 5th year at Virginia
Year 1 no post season
Year 2 no post season
Year 3 NCAA, first round loss
Year 4 NIT
Year 5 NCAA
Currently has team in top 5 in country
When he wasn't on the bench with three fouls in the first half.
The problem I see with this team is that we're a bunch of street-ballers. We toss the ball around looking for the first open guy to fire up from three-land. There is little systematic presence to our offense beyond "find an open 3."
Rowsey -- Not impressed by. Period. Good shot but as a senior, he should be a reasonably complete player. Not even close. May be a thing with me but I think he's an incredibly self-centered ballplayer. Don't see a team aspect of his play.
Howard -- May be the heart and soul of this team, but without a real point guard, he's flailing in the wind too often. He's a good "2" guard and not the point we need to run a championship caliber college offense.
Hauser -- May be the best player on this team, but he's got to do a better job of getting separation. I like where he will be next year. He's as close as we have to the complete package.
Heldt -- For you old-timers, Heldt is a Craig Butrym or Jerry Homan in a Jim Chones/Jerome Whitehead world. He's a 10 minutes a game guy at most. I like his effort but he's a back-up that is designed to rest your starter.
Froeling -- Is a huge disappointment. I guess I expected, mistakenly, a lot more from him that we got. Not sure whether it's he's just not THAT good or it's because we're playing too much hero ball in the back court and we're not finding him.
Sacar -- Going to old timers, Sacar is a Bill Neary type. I like him. I like his heart and his effort. But Neary was good in part because we had BT off the bench. Sacar is a sixth or seventh guy on the team but not, in my mind, a starter on a championship caliber team.
Given this mess we have this year, I'm seeing us build a future around Marcus, Greg Eliott, Sam Hauser, maybe Greg and Theo and, eventually, one of our incomings. I'm optimistic about Ed Morrow but after the Harry Froeling debacle, I want to see it to believe it. Like most folks, I'm optimistic about Joey and I think Bailey will be a gem. But I don't expect immediate change from these guys.
All this said, I give myself a "D" as a fan this year for possibly expecting too much from this team.
I hope Wojo learns to coach defense or finds an addition to his staff who can do it for him (Bo Ellis, are you out there?). If he doesn't find that person or becomes enlightened about college defense, I'm not optimistic about next year -- or the near future for that matter.
The Duke standard for most of their assistants has been to go to a major program.
Amaker left for a Big Ten job
Dawkins left for a Pac 12 job
Chris Collins left Duke for a Big Ten job
Wojo left for a Big East job
Quinn Snyder left for a Big 12 job
Brey went to a smaller program in Delaware. Capel went to ODU. I'm sure Wojo's peers were telling him to hold out for a major conference job, but it would be surprising if other programs didn't want him. Besides, what does it matter. Winthrop took Gregg Marshall. Does Winthrop count as a real program? Would you like to have Gregg Marshall as our coach? Does Belmont Abbey count as a real program? We hired Al from their. Coach K was at Army. Coach Wright at Hofstra.
Wojo had discussions with Dayton, how serious things got are unknown. http://aboverim.blogspot.com/2011/04/wojciechowski-removes-name-from-dayton.html
1SEDisagree. I think Wojo is a good recruiter. He has put together the talent that he wants on this team. The flaw is that he encourages transfers by recruiting better talent and thus loses players like Haniff, Duane, Sandy, Steve, Traci and Jamal making the team perpetually young, without mature leadership.
My point is that talent can overcome weak caching to some degree. I have my doubts on his ability to coach at this point, but lack of talent does not help the situation.
Legit question:I think Wojo is still adjusting to coaching non McDonald's all Americans. At Duke you do not need to develop talent. You need to mold them into a team. At MU you need to develop talent, which is totally different.
What was Wojo doing sitting next to Coach K from 1999-2014? You would expect some coaching smarts to have permeated his body, at least by osmosis, even if Steve spent half the time sleeping on the job. Maybe some guys are "lifer" assistant coaches and just don't have all the pieces necessary to be a successful head coach on this level. Completely mind boggling that Wojo, as a player, was defensive player of the year.
I think Wojo is still adjusting to coaching non McDonald's all Americans. At Duke you do not need to develop talent. You need to mold them into a team. At MU you need to develop talent, which is totally different.
Amaker left Duke for Seton Hall. Then was fired at Michigan
Dawkins was fired from Stanford
Collins is at a program with zero expectations
Snyder was fired from Missouri (Coach K covered up Snyder’s drug abuse to help him get the job in the first place).
Not great comparisons there.
Certainly, and my hope is that Wojo has the goods, rallies us into the NCAA Tournament this year, and has us competing for a conference title next year and thinking of the Final Four as a realistic goal in 2020 as we look at a strong, deep, balanced roster that can sustain itself for years to come.
If that doesn't happen, an incoming coach in 2019 could do worse than a team that would likely have two top-10 all-time scorers at Marquette (Howard and Hauser), a former 5-star recruit (I imagine Joey would at least stay with Sam for his sophomore year), and while there might be some transfers, a fairly deep roster.
We'd be attractive financially, are in an urban market, and would have a strong team for a new coach to start with. I think the job would be looked at favorably.
I agree with sultan, bring in an old guy assistant that has a proven track record of coaching defense.
I never said that.No, but you should have. I've been hoping that Woj would reach out to Jerry Wainwright for help but don't think Jerry would take the gig.
I agree with sultan, bring in an old guy assistant that has a proven track record of coaching defense.
Cannot make this assumption.
If we can Wojo after next season, have to assume everyone leaves and we are 12 to 15 win team (under 500) in 2019/2020 and no postseason for two years.
I agree with sultan, bring in an old guy assistant that has a proven track record of coaching defense.
Regardless, my first hope is for Wojo to succeed. Best case scenario is he earns being here another 15-20 years and turns down Duke along the way.
Same here. I'm getting too old for yet another rebuild.
As much as the Jesuits and the O'Hara Hall crowd are in love with Wojo (and I believe they are), they also know the implications of a faltering basketball program. Lower revenue, lower enthusiasm nationally for Marquette and far less national notoriety.
Speaking of rebuilds...
Tugg
I am ok with any steps backward if it means taking program to next level. We have had five years, including Buzz’s last year, of being a non factor on the national scene.
I’m saying can Wojo, but keeping him out of fear is not the answer.
PTM
As I have said for years, if I have dissatisfaction with the program it starts with the admin. I was fine with the Wojo hire and still not anti Wojo. I think the school gives off indication of wanting to be big time and we are far from big time.
I would stick with Wojo and see what happens next year. If he meets admin expectations he stays longer. Would love to see him succeed.
Wojo is not being hired away anytime soon, nor is he getting fired anytime soon. At this point, I would Wojo will be candidate for exactly zero jobs at the end of this season. Not a rip on him, just he is a work in progress.
WaldoYes it would be dumb with the guys coming in next year and Morrow available. Blowing it up without allowing the opportunity of seeing what they can accomplish. Not to make any excuses but not having Theo available is hurting, and since Sam got hurt his mid range jumper does not seem to go in as easy as before. I think Sam is probably still not 100%.
I might be the most consistent person on here. I meant to say don’t can Wojo, but not because of a fear of going backwards. I would give him another year and see what happens.
Again, I would not can Wojo after this year.
I do not understand why there are some of you who want wojo to get the boot. You do realize that if wojo were to be fired we would have to start the rebuild all over again. Recruits leave, players leave,etc. It would be 2014-15 all over again. I'm guessing nobody here wants to relive that nightmare. Firing wojo is a fantastically stupid idea.
A rebuild can be done very quickly these days. I would never not fire a coach over the fear of facing a rebuild. Simple decision, if coach can win consistently you keep him. If not, you fire him. Being afraid of what happens if you fire a coach is not a winning thought process.I guess I don't know exactly what a "winning thought process" is, but I think every AD should be concerned about firing a coach and not having a better option. Kind of common sense right?
I hope we can pull this thread up next year at this time. I suspect we will be solidly in the field and looking to have a good tournament. If I am wrong, I'll be here changing my tune on Wojo. This years team is very close, but we are missing two things. A guard, who can guard - to bad Cheatem and Duane are not here. Either one of them, I feel, would be just enough to get us over the hump. Second, we are missing a guy like Morrow. So the Morrow box is checked for next year.This. Adding those few pieces, plus all freshman becoming sophomores will make two major changes to the overall performance. First, the amount of games where we just don't have it/ play bad, will be fewer and further in between, although even experienced have bad games. Second, the games where we come up just short, (X, Nova, PC) we will be able to pull out. As bad as we've looked when we're off, we're still only half a dozen possessions away from 8-5. I know things even out over time, but this year it seems like we've lost more close games than we've won, which was to be expected. Most of the pieces are there, you just need all the pieces to have a great team.
Froling is coming along nicely. I really look at him as a Redshirt Freshman. Even if we don't get that guard who can defend, I think the team next year will be better than this year. We will miss Rowsey on offense when we really need it, but we are adding a lot.
Add a guard who can defend, preferably a combo or point guard, and next years team will finally be a team with all of the pieces. That assumes no crucial defections this summer/fall.
I still have great hope/expectations and I am not down on Wojo at all... I love the style of play on offense and having shooters is so much enjoyable to watch (I could hardly stand to watch some of the Buzz teams, and even some Crean teams). From the beginning, this was not expected to be a quick rebuild ala Buzz. It was going to be a process, rebuild of the team and culture (from a basketball coach who saw himself and HIS team as separate from the University to a student athlete approach more inline with the administration, etc). Really a major change in who gets recruited, etc. Again, was going to be a process to establish a student athlete approach and that process is well underway and established. Now it is time to build on the base that has been established. We are in a good position to do so.
A rebuild can be done very quickly these days. I would never not fire a coach over the fear of facing a rebuild. Simple decision, if coach can win consistently you keep him. If not, you fire him. Being afraid of what happens if you fire a coach is not a winning thought process.
I hope we can pull this thread up next year at this time. I suspect we will be solidly in the field and looking to have a good tournament. If I am wrong, I'll be here changing my tune on Wojo. This years team is very close, but we are missing two things. A guard, who can guard - to bad Cheatem and Duane are not here. Either one of them, I feel, would be just enough to get us over the hump. Second, we are missing a guy like Morrow. So the Morrow box is checked for next year.
Froling is coming along nicely. I really look at him as a Redshirt Freshman. Even if we don't get that guard who can defend, I think the team next year will be better than this year. We will miss Rowsey on offense when we really need it, but we are adding a lot.
Add a guard who can defend, preferably a combo or point guard, and next years team will finally be a team with all of the pieces. That assumes no crucial defections this summer/fall.
I still have great hope/expectations and I am not down on Wojo at all... I love the style of play on offense and having shooters is so much enjoyable to watch (I could hardly stand to watch some of the Buzz teams, and even some Crean teams). From the beginning, this was not expected to be a quick rebuild ala Buzz. It was going to be a process, rebuild of the team and culture (from a basketball coach who saw himself and HIS team as separate from the University to a student athlete approach more inline with the administration, etc). Really a major change in who gets recruited, etc. Again, was going to be a process to establish a student athlete approach and that process is well underway and established. Now it is time to build on the base that has been established. We are in a good position to do so.
Pulling this thread up to show that we're better at this point next year doesn't show any improvement in Wojo's ability to coach. We'll be starting 3 or 4 juniors and we'll have a solid presence on the interior. That removes 2 of the the 3 major deficiencies of this year's team (defensive ability will still be in question). From the looks of next year's roster, I think just about any coach in the country could get that group into the tournament. Realistically, that's a pretty low bar for next year's group.
In terms of addressing the things we're missing this year, that has to fall to Wojo. Yeah, yeah, I get it, guys transfer all over the country. But I think it's more than a little naive to think that guys are choosing to leave (mid-season even!) a program that they truly enjoy being a part of. Losing guys you plan to rely on might just be bad luck, but it might also be the result of the environment within the program that has been set by the coaching staff. And then not having a big man? Wojo and Co. might have made a bad choice with Harry. It sure isn't panning out so far. And they've had just as much opportunity as anyone else to recruit high level big men. Instead, we got a bit of a project in Eke and a bunch of guards, one who may also be a project after being out of the game for 2 years.
Also, we'll probably have to agree to disagree about Wojo's teams vs. Buzz's teams, but it seems odd to me that you like seeing guys hit 3's and play no defense over watching NBA draft picks drive to the hoop and create their own shot while being able to get stops when needed. To each his own, but there's a reason Buzz's teams consistently outperformed the current Wojo teams.
Thanks for demonstrating you are nothing but anti-wojo. That's all you care about.
Pulling this thread up to show that we're better at this point next year doesn't show any improvement in Wojo's ability to coach. We'll be starting 3 or 4 juniors and we'll have a solid presence on the interior. That removes 2 of the the 3 major deficiencies of this year's team (defensive ability will still be in question). From the looks of next year's roster, I think just about any coach in the country could get that group into the tournament. Realistically, that's a pretty low bar for next year's group.If you're gonna discredit Wojo for having a young team this year you have to credit him for having an experienced team next year. All coaches have some young teams and some old teams, we had an old team last year and a young team this year.
In terms of addressing the things we're missing this year, that has to fall to Wojo. Yeah, yeah, I get it, guys transfer all over the country. But I think it's more than a little naive to think that guys are choosing to leave (mid-season even!) a program that they truly enjoy being a part of. Losing guys you plan to rely on might just be bad luck, but it might also be the result of the environment within the program that has been set by the coaching staff. And then not having a big man? Wojo and Co. might have made a bad choice with Harry. It sure isn't panning out so far. And they've had just as much opportunity as anyone else to recruit high level big men. Instead, we got a bit of a project in Eke and a bunch of guards, one who may also be a project after being out of the game for 2 years.
Also, we'll probably have to agree to disagree about Wojo's teams vs. Buzz's teams, but it seems odd to me that you like seeing guys hit 3's and play no defense over watching NBA draft picks drive to the hoop and create their own shot while being able to get stops when needed. To each his own, but there's a reason Buzz's teams consistently outperformed the current Wojo teams.
I'm just a realist, my man. Once he's shown he's done more than just recruit top guys, I may change my tune.
I'll also be curious to see if he'll be able to land top guys who's brothers aren't already on our team.
If we had this roster + Jordan Howard and had this record, your anti-Wojo agenda would be much more valid
I'll also be curious to see if he'll be able to land top guys who's brothers aren't already on our team.
If you're gonna discredit Wojo for having a young team this year you have to credit him for having an experienced team next year. All coaches have some young teams and some old teams, we had an old team last year and a young team this year.
Also its a bit early to completely write off Harry 15 games into a 2.5 year career.
The transfer numbers have been analyzed multiple times so you must just choosing to ignore them.
I understand that this year is frustrating, but part of that is because people (not necessarily you) had unrealistic expectations coming in. No offense to anyone, but I'd trust the coaches preseason prediction more than anyone here,(they've gotten it pretty spot on) its their job to know more about basketball than us. If you don't want another disappointing season next year, you might want to slightly alter your expectations, November is a long way off.
If we had this roster + Jordan Howard and had this record, your anti-Wojo agenda would be much more valid
I'm not discrediting Wojo for the young team. I'm just saying that it's one of the most commonly brought up talking points when we underperform, but roster construction falls to the coaching staff. Wojo wasn't dealt this hand, his decisions played a very big role in the youth of this year's team.Sandy wan't gonna get minutes, Traci wasn't gonna get minutes, Haanif was likely to see his minutes drop significantly unless he jumped back to his freshman form, Duane saw his minutes drop because he was assigned a different role.
For transfers, my major point is that we lose a guy or two per year, like most programs, but we seem to lose much more critical pieces than other programs. Looking at just the number of transfers alone assumes that losing a starter is equal to losing a deep bench guy, and that's obviously not true. I'm concerned with who transfers much more than the fact that they occur. And since there's been this pattern of losing guys we expect to play solid minutes, that concerns me.
The 2 highest ranked recruits he's landed have been H Ellenson and J Hauser. I had to use the first initials to make sure we knew which brother I was talking about.So Wojo only gets the easy All Americans?
Landing Markus was great, and he was a good recruit, but Stan being on the coaching staff that Markus originally committed to doesn't exactly prove that Wojo is the guy that's making all this happen.
I do not understand why there are some of you who want wojo to get the boot. You do realize that if wojo were to be fired we would have to start the rebuild all over again. Recruits leave, players leave,etc. It would be 2014-15 all over again. I'm guessing nobody here wants to relive that nightmare. Firing wojo is a fantastically stupid idea.
Terrible reason knot ta give Wojo da Heave Ho, hey?
Your second paragraph is all about tearing Wojo down because of his roster management/building.
But your first paragraph is all about how next year proves nothing because even though Wojo will have done a good job building the roster.
So...
Sandy wan't gonna get minutes, Traci wasn't gonna get minutes, Haanif was likely to see his minutes drop significantly unless he jumped back to his freshman form, Duane saw his minutes drop because he was assigned a different role.
Compare that with the transfers Wojo has brought in. Carlino was a good get, KR was a good get, I know you don't like Harry, but its too early to tell with him, Rowsey certainly has his flaws, but was a good get, Wally was a special situation but I don't think too many people minded him coming to mostly sit on the bench. If there were an NCAA rule prohibiting transfers, and we only had players recruited out of high school, we don't make the tournament last year, bottom line, we also likely don't make the tournament next year. If you would take Sandy, Traci, and Duane, over KR, AR, and EM you would be the only one.
I'm frustrated that the rebuild has taken so long and that the progress hasn't felt consistent.4-14, 8-10, 10-8, ?-?. Other than the question marks that's fairly consistent, yea we're likely not gonna finish better this year, but as it has been pointed out we're significantly younger, and the Beast is significantly better
Traci Carter was a loss. Coaching staff did try like hell to convince him to stay. May not have played a ton this year, but could have been red shirted and been the PG we sorely will need next year. Even if Traci were not redshirted, having him eligible this season, would have given Wojo a CLEAR change up at PG position - one who was a tenacious defender, and was in total pass first mode.Its an awful tough sell to convince someone to take a non-medical redshirt in their third year. we'll never know what he could have done here next year, but his transfer was a case of best situation for everyone. Also who doesn't come if he stays? I think all of the freshman, with the possible expectation of Ike have a higher ceiling than Traci.
Traci will be a star at LaSalle. Could have been really good here. He was Tony Miller 2.0 in my opinion.
Sandy wan't gonna get minutes, Traci wasn't gonna get minutes, Haanif was likely to see his minutes drop significantly unless he jumped back to his freshman form, Duane saw his minutes drop because he was assigned a different role.
Compare that with the transfers Wojo has brought in. Carlino was a good get, KR was a good get, I know you don't like Harry, but its too early to tell with him, Rowsey certainly has his flaws, but was a good get, Wally was a special situation but I don't think too many people minded him coming to mostly sit on the bench. If there were an NCAA rule prohibiting transfers, and we only had players recruited out of high school, we don't make the tournament last year, bottom line, we also likely don't make the tournament next year. If you would take Sandy, Traci, and Duane, over KR, AR, and EM you would be the only one.
I've said a number of times that I think we've come out in a net positive situation from transfers because we've gained some really good guys. Losing guys like Duane, Haanif, Deonte, even Steve Taylor makes you wonder what goes on in the locker room. I know there are going to be some special circumstances, but it doesn't reflect well on the program to lose guys that were contributors or go on somewhere else to be solid players.Players leave because there is someone younger and better at their position, this is a good problem to have. I can't say for sure, because I was not recruited out of high school to play basketball, but I doubt that many recruits will turn down a program just because they have had players leave (exceptions include situations like Louisville, and Colorado State this year, and that situation at Rutgers a few years back).
The idea that we could be better if some of our transfers had stayed - Duane and HC this year - shows that we're losing good players. I do think Wojo has done a great job of filling the transfer holes, but it has to happen too frequently for my liking. I don't remember this happening under our other coaches. Scott Christopherson might be one exception.
We are a performance based society whether millenials like or not. Either you can do the job or not. If not, there will be someone who can and you'll be replaced. Just that simple and not hard to understand. Attaboy awards don't cut it, aina?
No one in there right mind expected Marquette to be a top 25 team this year. Most expected a bubble team, or worse. Not sure why MU would move on from Wojo when this years team has been exactly what must expected, especially when the future rosters looks very promising.
J5I agree that we're not preseason top 25, but solely based on the fact that we should beat becky and the field for the pre-season NIT, I would not be at all surprised to be receiving votes in early December, especially if we get a favorable Gavitt game. I think all of those are winable, and I can't see us scheduling many other non-buy games. Maybe a home-and-home, but that would be it.
This is team is exactly what I expected them to be, not very good. They did surprise me with the explosive individual scoring and that kept me interested. Only thing we differ on is, my lack of major optimism for next season. I do not see how they make significant improvements next season. I have watched my share of ball and I do not see high talent pool in the program. There are several nice players, one explosive scorer and role players coming back next year.
With the optimism many have for next year, how many feel MU is a preseason top 25 team in October? I think little to no chance. Again, they met my expectations for this season and believe they will again next year. I think at BEST a bubble team next year.
J5
This is team is exactly what I expected them to be, not very good. They did surprise me with the explosive individual scoring and that kept me interested. Only thing we differ on is, my lack of major optimism for next season. I do not see how they make significant improvements next season. I have watched my share of ball and I do not see high talent pool in the program. There are several nice players, one explosive scorer and role players coming back next year.
With the optimism many have for next year, how many feel MU is a preseason top 25 team in October? I think little to no chance. Again, they met my expectations for this season and believe they will again next year. I think at BEST a bubble team next year.
Pulling this thread up to show that we're better at this point next year doesn't show any improvement in Wojo's ability to coach.
All are certainly welcome to their own opinion.
I think it exciting that we're returning basically our entire team. We'll be fairly experienced next season. Ed Morrow is going to be a huge boost. If you haven't seen him play, you're going to be delighted when you do. He is a really good basketball player and will give us an interior presence we have so sorely lacked in the Wojo's tenure. I like Rowsey a lot...he is a talented scorer, but the fact that our two best players both play the same position, both are sub 6 feet, and both suck defensively has given this team serious limitiations. I think that problem will mostly solve itself by subtraction.
Joey and Bailey are high major players we'll add to the mix. I think what happens with the open schollie and the PG situation is what will decide if this team is a middle of the pack BE team, or a top 25 team. I suspect Wojo will be hot after PG grad transfers. I don't think we need to add an elite PG to be good, but just a solid defensive player that can hit open shots and find his teammates would be a huge addition to this team. There will be several guys that fit that bill that will become available in the next few months.
No one in there right mind expected Marquette to be a top 25 team this year. Most expected a bubble team, or worse. Not sure why MU would move on from Wojo when this years team has been exactly what must expected, especially when the future rosters looks very promising.
Why do you think that Wojo wouldn't have recruited Luke?
Luke is the perfect wojo recruit in that he also couldn't play defense
I felt we should be an NCAA team this year. A 10-seed caliber team. Many felt once Wojo got "all his guys," we'd improve off of last season - as it was said countless times here Wojo never would have recruited any of Duane, JJJ, Luke.
Furthermore, to say this year's team is devoid of talent is absurd. We have a 2,000 point career scorer on this team. Two sophomores who are approaching the 1,000 point mark. Freshman contributors. Sacar and Heldt (experienced/3 years in the program), both playing to their role given by Wojo.
We have a prolific offense. With just marginally decent defense, we are an NCAA team. It isn't absurd to think this team should be an NCAA caliber team.
Why do you think that Wojo wouldn't have recruited Luke?
Personally, I felt a roster of sophomores JJJ, Deonte, Duane, Luke..Junior..Steve Taylor..Seniors Todd Mayo, Juan Anderson, and Derrick Wilson wasn't exactly a scrap heap/empty cupboard of a roster to inherit.
Personally, I think Wojo would have recruited Luke. Some here posted that he would not have..and of course about how empty the cupboard was upon his arrival - and that the early results of his tenure weren't fair to assess as he wasn't dealing with a roster full of his guys.
Personally, I felt a roster of sophomores JJJ, Deonte, Duane, Luke..Junior..Steve Taylor..Seniors Todd Mayo, Juan Anderson, and Derrick Wilson wasn't exactly a scrap heap/empty cupboard of a roster to inherit.
Didn't think entering Wojo's first season that roster would go 13-19, and 4-14 in Big East play. Granted he kicked Mayo off the team, so that hurt the talent/experience level.
Find me a team that missed the NIT, lost 6/7 of it's top minute getters, and only brought it 1 freshman and then made any sort of postseason the next year....I'll wait.
J5
This is team is exactly what I expected them to be, not very good. They did surprise me with the explosive individual scoring and that kept me interested. Only thing we differ on is, my lack of major optimism for next season. I do not see how they make significant improvements next season. I have watched my share of ball and I do not see high talent pool in the program. There are several nice players, one explosive scorer and role players coming back next year.
With the optimism many have for next year, how many feel MU is a preseason top 25 team in October? I think little to no chance. Again, they met my expectations for this season and believe they will again next year. I think at BEST a bubble team next year.
I'm actually curious about this whole rebuilds can go faster than four years thing. I know plenty of examples of coaches who started off slow and eventually built winning programs (Wright at Nova, Bennett at UVA, etc). But does anyone have an example of a coach that took over a team that missed the NIT the season before and then built them into a consistent contender in 3 seasons or less? I can think of examples like Wojo where a team made the tournament in 3 years or less, but not as sure about building programs to a point where they are consistently in the tournament every year.....I smell a research project coming on....maybe after work today.
So rosters aren't expected to improve from year to year? We don't expect kids to take a leap from their freshman to sophomore years (Top 50 kids too, btw)? Mayo wouldn't have helped that team win more games? Deonte starting ahead of Cohen wouldn't have helped that team win more games? Duane starting at PG, with Carlino at SG wouldn't have helped that team win more games? We'll never know...and its only relevance to present day is this:
Many in our fanbase expected a jump this year, given that the roster was now ALL Wojo's players. That hasn't happened. In fact, we appear headed for regression. I'm optimistic for next year I feel Wojo has improved as a coach. He still has room for improvement. Just not sure I see a very high ceiling, which means elite talent will be needed in order to win at a Sweet 16 caliber level.
So rosters aren't expected to improve from year to year? We don't expect kids to take a leap from their freshman to sophomore years (Top 50 kids too, btw)? Mayo wouldn't have helped that team win more games? Deonte starting ahead of Cohen wouldn't have helped that team win more games? Duane starting at PG, with Carlino at SG wouldn't have helped that team win more games? We'll never know...and its only relevance to present day is this:Your two paragraphs contradict themselves. If players are supposed to improve year to year, and we only have three contributors returning, excluding Heldt, then it makes sense for us to regress slightly. I would say that Markus, Sam and Rowsey have all improved from last year to this year. If everybody comes back and improves, then we are set up for success next year.
Many in our fanbase expected a jump this year, given that the roster was now ALL Wojo's players. That hasn't happened. In fact, we appear headed for regression. I'm optimistic for next year I feel Wojo has improved as a coach. He still has room for improvement. Just not sure I see a very high ceiling, which means elite talent will be needed in order to win at a Sweet 16 caliber level.
My take is that next year people will act as if Wojo all of a sudden learned to coach in general and coach defense in particular, if we get that missing piece (a guard who can guard). Frankly Elliot could be that guy if he can get stronger and put on a little weight. He seems to have the drive to play D and may make a jump over the summer. If he does, I suppose you'll be down on Wojo as we'll only be winning because of the better players with more experience. But, adding that one guard is the key, and hopefully we are able to do so.
You ignore some of the reasons we are not good at defense this year, personal and inexperience are big parts of it. You seem to say that doesn't matter as it's on Wojo as he is the coach. Yes, it's on Wojo. But, you can't have it both ways:
You seem to say next year one can't evaluate Wojo's coaching if he has the horses... I disagree. Having the horses and experience are some of the most important parts of the equation/coaching. I've looked at this real rebuild of a culture/team as a process and a big one. Not a coach trying to just win with whatever players were available - it is harder when you are trying to create a certain environment. That base has been built.
Do you seriously not credit Wojo for Howard because an assistant came in and he followed? Or am I missing something?
I look forward to this thread being pulled up next year. I for one will have no problem changing my tune if we are not solidly in the field next year. If we are, unlike you, I won't say Wojo can't coach and it is only because he has better players and more experienced players. Who got those players and got them the experience/know how...?
Wojo has shown to be a more consistent recruiter, not just getting one great class and riding them, this is a similar problem that Crean had at MU. Wojo has also had a smaller sample size than Willard. Looking at where the programs are heading, I don't think too many people outside of NJ would take Willard over Wojo.
My take on Wojo is similar to many people's take on Willard. Get a few good dudes, win some ballgames, but the jury could be out in terms of overall ability.
So rosters aren't expected to improve from year to year? We don't expect kids to take a leap from their freshman to sophomore years (Top 50 kids too, btw)? Mayo wouldn't have helped that team win more games? Deonte starting ahead of Cohen wouldn't have helped that team win more games? Duane starting at PG, with Carlino at SG wouldn't have helped that team win more games? We'll never know...and its only relevance to present day is this:
I'm actually curious about this whole rebuilds can go faster than four years thing. I know plenty of examples of coaches who started off slow and eventually built winning programs (Wright at Nova, Bennett at UVA, etc). But does anyone have an example of a coach that took over a team that missed the NIT the season before and then built them into a consistent contender in 3 seasons or less? I can think of examples like Wojo where a team made the tournament in 3 years or less, but not as sure about building programs to a point where they are consistently in the tournament every year.....I smell a research project coming on....maybe after work today.
Traci Carter was a loss. Coaching staff did try like hell to convince him to stay. May not have played a ton this year, but could have been red shirted and been the PG we sorely will need next year. Even if Traci were not redshirted, having him eligible this season, would have given Wojo a CLEAR change up at PG position - one who was a tenacious defender, and was in total pass first mode.
Traci will be a star at LaSalle. Could have been really good here. He was Tony Miller 2.0 in my opinion.
We are a performance based society whether millenials like or not. Either you can do the job or not. If not, there will be someone who can and you'll be replaced. Just that simple and not hard to understand. Attaboy awards don't cut it, aina?
So rosters aren't expected to improve from year to year? We don't expect kids to take a leap from their freshman to sophomore years (Top 50 kids too, btw)? Mayo wouldn't have helped that team win more games? Deonte starting ahead of Cohen wouldn't have helped that team win more games? Duane starting at PG, with Carlino at SG wouldn't have helped that team win more games? We'll never know...and its only relevance to present day is this:
Many in our fanbase expected a jump this year, given that the roster was now ALL Wojo's players. That hasn't happened. In fact, we appear headed for regression. I'm optimistic for next year I feel Wojo has improved as a coach. He still has room for improvement. Just not sure I see a very high ceiling, which means elite talent will be needed in order to win at a Sweet 16 caliber level.
I'm actually curious about this whole rebuilds can go faster than four years thing. I know plenty of examples of coaches who started off slow and eventually built winning programs (Wright at Nova, Bennett at UVA, etc). But does anyone have an example of a coach that took over a team that missed the NIT the season before and then built them into a consistent contender in 3 seasons or less? I can think of examples like Wojo where a team made the tournament in 3 years or less, but not as sure about building programs to a point where they are consistently in the tournament every year.....I smell a research project coming on....maybe after work today.
Legit question:Please translate into Sheboyganese:)
What was Wojo doing sitting next to Coach K from 1999-2014? You would expect some coaching smarts to have permeated his body, at least by osmosis, even if Steve spent half the time sleeping on the job. Maybe some guys are "lifer" assistant coaches and just don't have all the pieces necessary to be a successful head coach on this level. Completely mind boggling that Wojo, as a player, was defensive player of the year.
I apparently have a higher (less realistic?) bar for Wojo and for the MU program most years than others. I won't be down on Wojo if we make the tournament with a 7-10 seed. I won't go out of my way to praise him for simply meeting my expectations either. Maybe my expectations are too high, but with our roster next year, I expect to have a top 25 team competing for a good seed come March. I don't think that's overly optimistic.
As far as getting recruits, do you think we get Markus without Stan? Markus committed to ASU over Marquette at first. Wojo had given his pitch, and Markus didn't bite. When Stan left ASU for Marquette, so did Markus. I wonder what changed at MU...? I think you have to give Stan more credit for landing Markus than Wojo.
My take on Wojo is similar to many people's take on Willard. Get a few good dudes, win some ballgames, but the jury could be out in terms of overall ability.
Rebuilds don't need to take 5 years.
A rebuild can be done very quickly these days.
Hang on hang on. I said I would look into it....I just forgot it was Valentine's Day when I said it. Gotta keep the Mrs happy and then I'll do some research
So rosters aren't expected to improve from year to year? We don't expect kids to take a leap from their freshman to sophomore years (Top 50 kids too, btw)? Mayo wouldn't have helped that team win more games? Deonte starting ahead of Cohen wouldn't have helped that team win more games? Duane starting at PG, with Carlino at SG wouldn't have helped that team win more games? We'll never know...and its only relevance to present day is this:
Many in our fanbase expected a jump this year, given that the roster was now ALL Wojo's players. That hasn't happened. In fact, we appear headed for regression. I'm optimistic for next year I feel Wojo has improved as a coach. He still has room for improvement. Just not sure I see a very high ceiling, which means elite talent will be needed in order to win at a Sweet 16 caliber level.
Hang on hang on. I said I would look into it....I just forgot it was Valentine's Day when I said it. Gotta keep the Mrs happy and then I'll do some research
I love this idea that slow & steady automatically equals sustained success.
Furthermore if we make the S16 next season and Wojo takes the Wake job was that a smart investment of 5 years? If we know Wojo is in for 10 years, then fine. I just don’t believe that. So I’m not sure throwing away 4 years makes the most sense.
Also, I'd still be interested in your examples of these quick, sustained rebuilds.
So rosters aren't expected to improve from year to year? We don't expect kids to take a leap from their freshman to sophomore years (Top 50 kids too, btw)? Mayo wouldn't have helped that team win more games? Deonte starting ahead of Cohen wouldn't have helped that team win more games? Duane starting at PG, with Carlino at SG wouldn't have helped that team win more games? We'll never know...and its only relevance to present day is this:
Many in our fanbase expected a jump this year, given that the roster was now ALL Wojo's players. That hasn't happened. In fact, we appear headed for regression. I'm optimistic for next year I feel Wojo has improved as a coach. He still has room for improvement. Just not sure I see a very high ceiling, which means elite talent will be needed in order to win at a Sweet 16 caliber level.
Everyone acts like it has taken everyone x number of years...it doesn't....some good coaches took a while..some didnt..some were able to keep things rolling.
Just a quick google.
Rick Barnes...much of his career has had strong runs of success. Jamie Dixon kept Pitt rolling...Buzz Williams kept MU rolling...X hasnt had problems...Butler has done well...Lon Kruger has made a whole career out of doing the impossible.
Everyone of those guys had to rebuild the team in their likeness at some point to continue success. So for them to be successful they had to have all of their own guys (but many were able to make it work with what was left too).
You may say well Wojo came into a Napalm situation (really just one bad year for MU)...He basically is on the Scott Drew or Tom Crean plan though...now that was coming back from Napalm. If our situation was that bad then shame on us because it was self-inflicted.
At the end of the day Wojo deserves another year at least -- but the good coaches give you more tangible things to get excited then we have actually experienced (so far more promise than results and that needs to change). This is why I believe this is a continued topic of discussion.
PS - What is sustained 'rebuild' anyway. Basically we are hoping for a legend...
Wojo is as good as it gets with this BOT. Until you change some basic player selection criteria you will have what we have. I just wonder if some/most of our BE competition have the same academic requirements. I give Wojo a lot of credit fielding a team as competitive as he has with his restrictions.
He's no more restricted than Nova and Xavier.
O.K., how about SJ, The Hall, PC, GT, and are you sure? Also, on the recruiting trail we compete with everyone else in Div. 1.
The only restrictions academically that I know of are Jucos who would find it difficult to graduate in a two year time frame. I don't know why you think it's all that restrictive. My guess is that it's on par with pretty much every BE school.
I recall debates here a few years ago about other standards, things like GPA at a higher level and other admission standards. It just seems to me that athleticism is the main requirement for most other BE teams.This may have some merit with a few of the old BEast teams, which would explain the debates occuring a couple years ago, but since the realignment, everybody has pretty much been on the same playing field, with the only possible exceptions being the Juco situation
I recall debates here a few years ago about other standards, things like GPA at a higher level and other admission standards. It just seems to me that athleticism is the main requirement for most other BE teams.
I recall debates here a few years ago about other standards, things like GPA at a higher level and other admission standards. It just seems to me that athleticism is the main requirement for most other BE teams.
I can say with 100% certainty that he was offered the Dayton job in 2011 and he turned it down. They got Archie Miller instead. Whether that counts as a "real program" having interest in him is up to interpretation. He's referenced getting other offers but I have no idea to who and if it was a true offer or if he was just in the process. But I would guess that we were the best program to ever offer him a job....which shouldn't be surprising for a 37 year old career assistant. So the narrative that he was waiting for the right offer does seem to hold up. Whether that is the whole story or not...I have no idea.
Dixon is an interesting one. As an assistant he kept the ball rolling. When he jumped or got pushed, he instantly turned TCU around.
Matt Painter is an interesting one as he and Weber jumped from Purdue assistants to SIU where he took over for Bruce when Illinois came to call. Then, Matt moved back to Purdue after one great year as HC at SIU and turned Purdue around again quickly when Keady was checked out.
Enfield is an interesting study but I suspect money was involved.
Are they expected to increase year over year until all you have is 12 guys that are first round NBA picks? How reasonable are you going to be since recruiting is not an exact science?
Is it also not possible that this roster is more talented than previous rosters, but talent alone doesn't win games. Experience matters. Give me a senior laden team of 3 star recruits over a freshmen dominated team of 4 star recruits. The talent may be stronger with the freshmen, but experience is a vital element.
Many in this fanbase expected NIT this year, seems you and others were the ones perhaps not noticing size, youth, inexperience.
FloorslapperEh I think this is revisionist history. Pretty sure most around here said this year would be a step back, with the possibility of making it into the tournament. But I would agree that everyone has been all-in on '18-'19 and rightfully so. We can all sit here and judge Wojo until we're blue in the face, but everyone knows it all comes down to next year.
A year ago at this time I said that four key players would be sorely missed this season and many, if not most, disagreed. The wait to next year crowd was talking big after 'Nova last year and then making NCAA. Luke was not going to be missed, JJJ was inconsistent and Rowsey can fill in the scoring of KR. Of course they are missed and this year's team is not as good as last year, as many predicted.
I sure hope that everyone that is saying "wait until next year", remember that you set the bar of expectations. I remember the wait until next year crowd very well from this time last season. Hope they are right on Round 2 of the next year campaign.
Floorslapper
A year ago at this time I said that four key players would be sorely missed this season and many, if not most, disagreed. The wait to next year crowd was talking big after 'Nova last year and then making NCAA. Luke was not going to be missed, JJJ was inconsistent and Rowsey can fill in the scoring of KR. Of course they are missed and this year's team is not as good as last year, as many predicted.
I sure hope that everyone that is saying "wait until next year", remember that you set the bar of expectations. I remember the wait until next year crowd very well from this time last season. Hope they are right on Round 2 of the next year campaign.
Floorslapper
A year ago at this time I said that four key players would be sorely missed this season and many, if not most, disagreed. The wait to next year crowd was talking big after 'Nova last year and then making NCAA. Luke was not going to be missed, JJJ was inconsistent and Rowsey can fill in the scoring of KR. Of course they are missed and this year's team is not as good as last year, as many predicted.
I sure hope that everyone that is saying "wait until next year", remember that you set the bar of expectations. I remember the wait until next year crowd very well from this time last season. Hope they are right on Round 2 of the next year campaign.
Floorslapper
A year ago at this time I said that four key players would be sorely missed this season and many, if not most, disagreed. The wait to next year crowd was talking big after 'Nova last year and then making NCAA. Luke was not going to be missed, JJJ was inconsistent and Rowsey can fill in the scoring of KR. Of course they are missed and this year's team is not as good as last year, as many predicted.
I sure hope that everyone that is saying "wait until next year", remember that you set the bar of expectations. I remember the wait until next year crowd very well from this time last season. Hope they are right on Round 2 of the next year campaign.
Golden
I am pretty certain you were one of the "experts" on the program. You had the in's and out's for both MU and SH if memory serves me. Much of next years talk began when folks bit into Matt hysteria last February. How losing Luke would not be a loss.
TAMU
My taking Rick's SLU team was a response to the next year crowd. J5 and others were quite excited.
TAMU
My taking Rick's SLU team was a response to the next year crowd. J5 and others were quite excited.
J5
If memory serves me, the debate took several different angles and I was frustrated with the general direction of the program in early-mid last February. I believe I said that we would be taking a fairly big step backwards going into this season and others disagreed. Lastly, I believe I said Rick's SLU program, not team and this point in time.
Eagle
I would agree, many folks (especially TAMU) were touting '18-19 more than this year. That said, I am quite confident that many felt this year would be on par, or better, than last year. My frustration started with the anti Luke talk and the Matt excitement. At the time, I felt losing Luke and JJJ would be very hard on the program going into this year.
If memory serves me, the debate took several different angles and I was frustrated with the general direction of the program in early-mid last February. I believe I said that we would be taking a fairly big step backwards going into this season and others disagreed. Lastly, I believe I said Rick's SLU program, not team and this point in time.
J5
I have no gripe with you and love your love for the program. So, if we are not a bubble team on selection Sunday, will you be wrong? At this point, I do not think there will be any need to be glued to TV for selection show.
As for taking big step backwards, I do not agree, completely. I think this was simply a wasted year. I do not see an improvement YOY on any player, with exception of Sam. I do not think the freshmen improved a great deal or showed more than one game potential glimpses. And finally, we are likely to win less games this year and no big dance. In my world, that is big step backwards.
Unequivocally false. But no surprise a former supporter would be revising history to fit their narrative.
Floorslapper
A year ago at this time I said that four key players would be sorely missed this season and many, if not most, disagreed. The wait to next year crowd was talking big after 'Nova last year and then making NCAA. Luke was not going to be missed, JJJ was inconsistent and Rowsey can fill in the scoring of KR. Of course they are missed and this year's team is not as good as last year, as many predicted.
I sure hope that everyone that is saying "wait until next year", remember that you set the bar of expectations. I remember the wait until next year crowd very well from this time last season. Hope they are right on Round 2 of the next year campaign.
J5
I have no gripe with you and love your love for the program. So, if we are not a bubble team on selection Sunday, will you be wrong? At this point, I do not think there will be any need to be glued to TV for selection show.
As for taking big step backwards, I do not agree, completely. I think this was simply a wasted year. I do not see an improvement YOY on any player, with exception of Sam. I do not think the freshmen improved a great deal or showed more than one game potential glimpses. And finally, we are likely to win less games this year and no big dance. In my world, that is big step backwards.
Not that simple. Last year's team played a pedestrian schedule. This year's team has played a top 25 schedule according to Ken Pom and other listings. Last year's team played an easier schedule in a conference not as good as this year's. Currently the Big East is 2nd, just a fraction out of the top spot. Last season, the Big East was 3rd but mathematically much further back than this year's team is to the top spot. That means a team roughly the same as last year will have a harder time equaling the same win total if the schedule is harder. Do you disagree with this principle?A fix to this problem is to play the exact same schedule every year and hope that all other teams neither improve or regress. Who else would be pumped for that Mount Saint Mary's game in 2030?
If 2017 team has more wins than 2018 team, it could be because 2017 team is better. It can also mean 2017 team is worse, but played a more fortunate schedule. Could mean they are roughly the same, but all variables should be examined.
I think we'd need to go 2-3 for Selection Sunday to have no intrigue whatsoever, which I don't think will happen. But yah, if we end up 8-10 or worse, it will be a step back, and I will be disappointed. Pitchforks and fire wojo chants? Not so much...but definitely disappointed. Not as concerned about less wins, persay, if we still make it. Our noncon schedule this season was more difficult, we still for some reason play 1 less noncon game that 95% of d1 teams, and the BE as a whole is tougher than last season.
I just don't think our BE schedule to this point should be completely disregarded in the analysis. We played a very top heavy schedule, and if the BE schedule shook out a bit different (looked more like Providence's this year), I think a lot of people would feel differently, because our BE record would look better at the moment. Now...that requires MU to actually win the games they should win the rest of the way, which is admittedly a big if at this point.
As for your second paragraph, I get it. Markus has been a disappointment at times in the BE season. Its frustrating that Wojo hasn't been able to figure out a way to at least be a slightly below average defensive team. At this point, I think its a personnel issue with 2/3 best players just not being overly compatible with one another. I don't necessarily agree that the freshman haven't improved throughout the year, but I could at least see where you're coming from there.
TAMU
Of course I would not trade, even current program, for any SLU like program. If memory serves me, Golden and J5 were hitting me hard with optimism and calling me out for not supporting the program. I am not sure if was wades or brew, but someone was awfully high on this year's team and I felt this year was down year at best.
Whatever the case, my fingers remain crossed for next season.
Just saw your last post. Do you not remember the Luke bashing and Matt praising in Feb of last season?
TAMUWhile I think that we will make the tourney next year with considerable room to spare, I agree that we have quite a few question marks to fill before we get there. We still need a true PG, we still need both Greg and Jamal to put on 15 lbs while hopefully also working on their offensive weapons, we need to see some development from Harry, I think he has the tool set to get there but it has not shown up on the court yet, we need both Ed and Joey to be as good as advertised. That's a lot of things that need to happen to have a great team, and while I think that they all could happen, writing them off as guarantees at this point is foolish, so there is considerable work to be done.
My issue last year, and currently, is make no fair assessments. Many post good things simply because they want them to be true. My gut says 90% on the Neenah Express were fingers crossed optimistic, but can across as on the Express. Last year’s team was better, but in big picture means nothing.
I think you know me well to enough to know is all that matters is the big picture. Regardless of last year talk, I am not nearly as jacked for next season as most. They should be better on paper, but a lot of things need to fall into place. I would prefer being position to only question how good are they going to be. IMO they are not at that point.
It's always fun reading through threads that are just bickering matches over who was more right or more wrong on Scoop. We should really have more of these. Talking about basketball is way overrated.
Yah..and the constant Wojo bashing agenda is so much more refreshing!
Look dude, if you want to crown Wojo as a success before he accomplishes anything of note, go right ahead. I'm not impressed by Wojo because I haven't seen much from him outside of landing a few good recruits. That's not bashing. That's not saying he sucks. That's just saying he hasn't proven anything big yet. If you want to keep handing out participation trophies for Wojo and then whining every time someone disagrees with you, so be it.
At least talking about Wojo is about MU hoops. The constant back and forth when posters like you bring up people's posting history is petty and annoying. Try to stay on topic. If you want to gossip go to a Real Housewives forum. They'd love to have you.
Look dude, if you want to crown Wojo as a success before he accomplishes anything of note, go right ahead. I'm not impressed by Wojo because I haven't seen much from him outside of landing a few good recruits. That's not bashing. That's not saying he sucks. That's just saying he hasn't proven anything big yet. If you want to keep handing out participation trophies for Wojo and then whining every time someone disagrees with you, so be it.
At least talking about Wojo is about MU hoops. The constant back and forth when posters like you bring up people's posting history is petty and annoying. Try to stay on topic. If you want to gossip go to a Real Housewives forum. They'd love to have you.
Look dude, if you want to crown Wojo as a success before he accomplishes anything of note, go right ahead. I'm not impressed by Wojo because I haven't seen much from him outside of landing a few good recruits. That's not bashing. That's not saying he sucks. That's just saying he hasn't proven anything big yet. If you want to keep handing out participation trophies for Wojo and then whining every time someone disagrees with you, so be it.
At least talking about Wojo is about MU hoops. The constant back and forth when posters like you bring up people's posting history is petty and annoying. Try to stay on topic. If you want to gossip go to a Real Housewives forum. They'd love to have you.
Complains about bickering
<a few posts later>
Bickers.
For Lent, I gave up bickering about Wojo's defensive scheme. Now, I am just praying the defense gets better.I gave up swearing for lent.
Eat Arby's (but not on Lenten Friday's)!
WarriorDAd
Forget upper end talent coaches, you are talking decades ago. Not really sure, with exception of VA, what your post has to do with today's game. From my perspective, a rebuild should not take half a decade. To boot, Wojo has every asset available at his finger tips. Who knows, maybe this type of program the BOT wanted all along. Good kids that might surprise the fan base from time to time.
WarriorDad
I do not expect next year to be worse than this year. They likely will be slightly better, but I do not think a preseason lock for NCAA. In addition, just because BE will be down next year does not mean they will be greatly improved, regardless of record. I am looking at big picture and the ability to compete with top twenty teams on regular basis. I do not think they are close to that level going into next season.
Ted
Hope you are right. So, what do you expect next season? Are they in better place because better team or down year in BE?
WarriorDad
I do not expect next year to be worse than this year. They likely will be slightly better, but I do not think a preseason lock for NCAA. In addition, just because BE will be down next year does not mean they will be greatly improved, regardless of record. I am looking at big picture and the ability to compete with top twenty teams on regular basis. I do not think they are close to that level going into next season.
WarriorDad
I do not expect next year to be worse than this year. They likely will be slightly better, but I do not think a preseason lock for NCAA. In addition, just because BE will be down next year does not mean they will be greatly improved, regardless of record. I am looking at big picture and the ability to compete with top twenty teams on regular basis. I do not think they are close to that level going into next season.
Everything you said makes sense. And I expected a slight step back too. What gives me concern is now I'm worried we'll lose out. This season could go from disappointing to really bad.
Also, it appears we are the type of program where the coach isn't going to engineer a few wins here and there. We're going to need the horses. The good news, I think he is good at getting those horses.
There seems to be an emerging plurality that, barring a miraculous turnaround starting tonight, next year is going to be make or break for Wojo.Us declaring his seat warm, is a lot different from his seat actually being warm in the eyes of the BOT. I'm sure that Wojo knows that if he doesn't deliver this year or next year he might have to start keeping an eye open for new employment.
That sounds like a seat that's getting warm.
Us declaring his seat warm, is a lot different from his seat actually being warm in the eyes of the BOT. I'm sure that Wojo knows that if he doesn't deliver this year or next year he might have to start keeping an eye open for new employment.
Top 15-20. Team will be more experienced, stronger, more athletic, better passing team and will have a better defense as they are more familiar with each other. Helps that there are a ton of good seniors graduating from Big East schools. Need another guard recruit who can help out at the point.We could be good next year, but I am starting to have my doubts. We do not know what effect Joey's ankle surgery will have on him. We do not know what effect Bailey's two year mission will have on him. Eke also had surgery. So we are adding three question marks. Morrow should be ready to contribute. I do not think Heldt and Froling are not going to improve much. Right now we are looking at either Howard or Elliott playing point and the only backup being Cain. That alone could be a potential disaster. There is no guarantee that we can add another quality guard for next season. In spite of Wojo's history everyone seems to be assuming that we will have no transfers out, but we will not be safe from having a transfer out until every player shows up for the second semester.
WarriorDad
I do not expect next year to be worse than this year. They likely will be slightly better, but I do not think a preseason lock for NCAA. In addition, just because BE will be down next year does not mean they will be greatly improved, regardless of record. I am looking at big picture and the ability to compete with top twenty teams on regular basis. I do not think they are close to that level going into next season.
There seems to be an emerging plurality that, barring a miraculous turnaround starting tonight, next year is going to be make or break for Wojo.
That sounds like a seat that's getting warm.
Collins team coughs up a 27 point lead at home to MSU. He was the nation's darling coach last year.
Kruger's team has hit the skids, losing 5 in a row and 8 of 10.
Cal's Kentucky squad has lost 4 of 5.
Purdue has lost 3 straight, one to Wisconsin and their last win was a two pointer vs Rutgers.
If MU gets a transfer PG, normal progression from the returnees, Morrow is who we think he is, and we get nothing from Bailey, Joey, and Ike, next year's team is still a tourney team.
I suppose it depends on your definition of warm seat.You really don’t think an underperforming year next year, i.e. missing the tourney could cost him his job? I find that hard to believe
My definition is that there is a good chance that the coach will be fired at the end of the season.
I don't think there's a good chance that Wojo gets fired until the end of year 6. So for me the seat is still ice cold.
So we now have contingencies in place for next year's team being an NCAA team? Virtually all of Wojo's deepest supporters have said next year is going to be the year we make a major leap, and have a special season...like it should be Sweet 16 caliber season.Please go look at JayBee's post on the assessing our warriors thread, it addresses many of your concerns. Yes we have question marks going into next year, but Wojo has proven successful at finding grad transfers, Morrow has played power conference ball before, so while those are both question marks, they are questions I feel confident of solving. IMO Harry being counted on to be productive this year was a bigger gamble than Morrow next year.
Seems by Year 5 we shouldn't need to have excuses or contingencies. At minimum we have to be an NCAA tourney team next year. If Wojo can't get us there next year, think even his most staunch supporters will acknowledge that he simply is not a good coach as it relates to X's & O's, game management, player personnel.
So we now have contingencies in place for next year's team being an NCAA team? Virtually all of Wojo's deepest supporters have said next year is going to be the year we make a major leap, and have a special season...like it should be Sweet 16 caliber season.
Seems by Year 5 we shouldn't need to have excuses or contingencies. At minimum we have to be an NCAA tourney team next year. If Wojo can't get us there next year, think even his most staunch supporters will acknowledge that he simply is not a good coach as it relates to X's & O's, game management, player personnel.
So we now have contingencies in place for next year's team being an NCAA team? Virtually all of Wojo's deepest supporters have said next year is going to be the year we make a major leap, and have a special season...like it should be Sweet 16 caliber season.
Seems by Year 5 we shouldn't need to have excuses or contingencies. At minimum we have to be an NCAA tourney team next year. If Wojo can't get us there next year, think even his most staunch supporters will acknowledge that he simply is not a good coach as it relates to X's & O's, game management, player personnel.
Nope. Not even close. Nice try though to set up a conflict for next year. Way to undercut any success wojo might have. You anti-wojo are all the same. You'd like our program to suffer so you can gloat about being right cause you didn't like the hire/coach.
You really don’t think an underperforming year next year, i.e. missing the tourney could cost him his job? I find that hard to believe
I was fine with the hire of Wojo as coach, after Shaka bailed. However, would have preferred Cuonzo (proven coach), but had absolutely no problem with the Wojo hire.Just curious, what would you have done differently in year one? We didn't exactly have a lot of horses to ride that season.
The "problem" with Wojo started his first year on the job, when his coaching and playing time decisions were totally and completely alarming (in my opinion) and the subsequent 4-14 Big East finish was brutal.
He's improved slightly each year. He still has much room for improvement. I want him to succeed as my ultimate care is that MU basketball be successful. I'm by no means ready to write the guy off. I'd probably even give him a 6th year if he misses the NCAA tourney next year just to absolutely, positively, be sure he had ample tim to prove himself/his program.
I'm not trying to plant any narrative or conflict for next year. Most of Wojo's staunchest supporters expect an NCAA berth next year, regardless of any grad transfer contingencies, or Morrow being a good player. There may be a few of you left who are simply going to excuse mediocrity from Wojo NO matter what and that is your prerogative.
I'm not trying to plant any narrative or conflict for next year. Most of Wojo's staunchest supporters expect an NCAA berth next year, regardless of any grad transfer contingencies, or Morrow being a good player. There may be a few of you left who are simply going to excuse mediocrity from Wojo NO matter what and that is your prerogative.
16
I can assure you that I have ZERO interest in being right or changing opinions. I am simply stating my opinion. It might differ from yours, some or everybody and I am fine with that. Any debate really comes down to ones perspective of what program should look like. To me, it is similar to debating wealth. Some people feel having a million dollars is being rich and to others it is not. Again, I could not care less if anyone agrees with me or not.
I was fine with the hire of Wojo as coach, after Shaka bailed. However, would have preferred Cuonzo (proven coach), but had absolutely no problem with the Wojo hire.
Do you like the barren wasteland that is Cal basketball this season? No way to know for sure how it would have played out if we hired Cuonzo, but my guess is that we would be where Cal is right now. Other than a blue blood, Missouri is Cuonzo's dream job, he would have left when it came open I doubt he would have built Marquette to a good enough place to survive another rebuild in the three years he would have been here.
Nope. Not even close. Nice try though to set up a conflict for next year. Way to undercut any success wojo might have. You anti-wojo are all the same. You'd like our program to suffer so you can gloat about being right cause you didn't like the hire/coach.
I was fine with the hire of Wojo as coach, after Shaka bailed. However, would have preferred Cuonzo (proven coach), but had absolutely no problem with the Wojo hire.
The "problem" with Wojo started his first year on the job, when his coaching and playing time decisions were totally and completely alarming (in my opinion) and the subsequent 4-14 Big East finish was brutal.
He's improved slightly each year. He still has much room for improvement. I want him to succeed as my ultimate care is that MU basketball be successful. I'm by no means ready to write the guy off. I'd probably even give him a 6th year if he misses the NCAA tourney next year just to absolutely, positively, be sure he had ample tim to prove himself/his program.
I'm not trying to plant any narrative or conflict for next year. Most of Wojo's staunchest supporters expect an NCAA berth next year, regardless of any grad transfer contingencies, or Morrow being a good player. There may be a few of you left who are simply going to excuse mediocrity from Wojo NO matter what and that is your prerogative.
Are you a UWM grad? Your bar is so low.
However, would have preferred Cuonzo (proven coach)
I place this win on the Marquette Coaching Staff.
Great coaching by Wojo to switch to the 2-3 ZoneGood Win vs the Blue Jays
Switch to 2-3 zone and the effort
Throw in the T. He was pissed Markus got injured. Challenged his team when things looked dour.
I wasn't watching the game because I don't get FS Wis. I was following a little on Gametracker. I couldn't help but notice we outscored them a little going into halftime after Wojo got the T.
Sometimes a coach just has to do it.
Throw in the T. He was pissed Markus got injured. Challenged his team when things looked dour.
Do you get YES network? It was on that channel, too.