Self-driving Tesla hits fire truck

[GooooMarquette]

http://money.cnn.com/2018/01/23/technology/tesla-fire-truck-crash/index.html

[StillAWarrior]

Interesting.  Obviously, such incidents are pretty much inevitable.  But, honestly, each one will provide important information that will help advance the technology.  Remember, the bar isn't set very high -- lots of people are really crappy drivers.  I'd be curious to know the "accidents-per-mile-driven" number for these cars as compared to humans.

[jesmu84]

Interesting.  Obviously, such incidents are pretty much inevitable.  But, honestly, each one will provide important information that will help advance the technology.  Remember, the bar isn't set very high -- lots of people are really crappy drivers.  I'd be curious to know the "accidents-per-mile-driven" number for these cars as compared to humans.

This is the important point that people need to come to understand. Sure, driverless cars will have accidents. Yesterday, today and tomorrow those accidents will happen. But to protect injuries/lives and decrease costs, driverless cars just need to do it at a lower rate. And, they will.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

This is the important point that people need to come to understand. Sure, driverless cars will have accidents. Yesterday, today and tomorrow those accidents will happen. But to protect injuries/lives and decrease costs, driverless cars just need to do it at a lower rate. And, they will.

This of course is logical. I haven't always known human beings to be logical.

[GooooMarquette]

I’m sure they will prove to be much safer in the long run. In the shorter term, bugs still need to be worked out before they will gain mass acceptance.

[GGGG]

I’m sure they will prove to be much safer in the long run. In the shorter term, bugs still need to be worked out before they will gain mass acceptance.

People would rather be in control even if it results in less safe cars. To a point of course.

It’s why people are afraid of flying even though it is much safer than driving. They don’t feel in control.

[tower912]

My department has fire trucks hit on a regular basis.    With us, it is usually people driving too fast in the snow.    I am going to drive until they pull the steering wheel from my fingers.    But Tesla is going to work to perfect their autonomous driving.   People are going to continue to do careless, stupid crap. 

[Tugg Speedman]

My department has fire trucks hit on a regular basis.    With us, it is usually people driving too fast in the snow.    I am going to drive until they pull the steering wheel from my fingers.    But Tesla is going to work to perfect their autonomous driving.   People are going to continue to do careless, stupid crap.

And when autonomous driving becomes reality estimates are human insurance will be $3k to $4k a year while autonomous cars will be a few hundreds bucks.  Street parking on any kind will be banned ... this is the biggie as up to 50% of urban traffic is parking ... double parking, looking for parking, illegal parking, narrowing streets with legal parking.

So while the rest of us will ride in the back of an autonomous car, some Luddite will by $4k a year to drive a car but not be able to park it.

[muwarrior69]

So who is liable? Tesla? The owner of the driverless vehicle? The software provider? etc.

[Tugg Speedman]

So who is liable? Tesla? The owner of the driverless vehicle? The software provider? etc.

By defintiion the autonomous car is not at fault.  It is probgrammed to precisely follow the rules.  So if a human is involved, it will be the human.

[GooooMarquette]

So who is liable? Tesla? The owner of the driverless vehicle? The software provider? etc.

I'm betting that purchase agreements for initial self-driving vehicles will contain provisions about who is responsible for various types of accidents.  Courts or legislators might eventually have something to say about it. 

A long-term possibility:  Manufacturers will be required to charge a small amount with each car they sell, and put the money into some insurance fund that covers the liability.  So you wouldn't be paying an annual insurance premium based on your driving history; you'd be pre-paying some standard amount based on big-picture accident stats.

[NorthernDancerColt]

People would rather be in control even if it results in less safe cars. To a point of course.

It’s why people are afraid of flying even though it is much safer than driving. They don’t feel in control.

Winner. This is what a logical, intelligent poster posts. No value judgments on how "tech challenged" and "dumb" the mASSes are. Thank you. If our politicians from All over the spectrum had this mindset, we'd get right to the point of what is holding us back.

[MU82]

People would rather be in control even if it results in less safe cars. To a point of course.

It’s why people are afraid of flying even though it is much safer than driving. They don’t feel in control.

Was thinking the same thing, sultan.

It will not be easy to convince the vast majority of the American public, but it seems inevitable to happen eventually.

[Tugg Speedman]

Was thinking the same thing, sultan.

It will not be easy to convince the vast majority of the American public, but it seems inevitable to happen eventually.

Remember how this is rolling it ... it will first come to the city centers (i.e., Manhattan).  Once you it is successful, they will ban all human traffic (and parking which is the key to getting rid of congestion) and it will spread from there.  By the time it gets to the areas the Luddites live in, they will have died off in enough numbers that they will be a minority.

Note - how you feel about driving is determined by two things ... how old you are, younger prefer driverless, and how densely populated (read urban) is your neighborhood, more densely populated the more you want driverless.

So again, most of the comments here are not about driverless cars, they are about the posters age and where they live (this includes my comments).

[mu_hilltopper]

Serious Q .. place your bets, what year will the Toyota Corolla have autonomous driving as standard equipment?

[NorthernDancerColt]

Remember how this is rolling it ... it will first come to the city centers (i.e., Manhattan).  Once you it is successful, they will ban all human traffic (and parking which is the key to getting rid of congestion) and it will spread from there.  By the time it gets to the areas the Luddites live in, they will have died off in enough numbers that they will be a minority.

Note - how you feel about driving is determined by two things ... how old you are, younger prefer driverless, and how densely populated (read urban) is your neighborhood, more densely populated the more you want driverless.

So again, most of the comments here are not about driverless cars, they are about the posters age and where they live (this includes my comments).

And of course, anyone who is not enlightened enough to live in the city is an old, simpleton Luddite who needs to die. Got it. OPRAH 2020!

[Tugg Speedman]

And of course, anyone who is not enlightened enough to live in the city is an old, simpleton Luddite who needs to die. Got it. OPRAH 2020!

Correct

[mu03eng]

Serious Q .. place your bets, what year will the Toyota Corolla have autonomous driving as standard equipment?

2025......data infrastructure won't be in place until then to support mass distribution of driverless cars.


Side note, driverless cars will likely be the death of auto dealerships as well. Maybe a family will own a single car, but more likely cars will be owned by Uber/Lyft/New Ride Share company and people will simply schedule a car to pick them up and take them where they are going.

[Tugg Speedman]

Serious Q .. place your bets, what year will the Toyota Corolla have autonomous driving as standard equipment?

https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/cars-that-are-almost-self-driving

Here is what we have now (level 3 autonomous)

2017 E-class Mercedes(drive pilot)
2018 BMW 5-Series
2018 Volvo XC60
2017 Tesla model S (auto pilot)
2018 Cadillac CT6 (super cruise)
2017 Tesla model X
2019 Audi A-8 (traffic Jam Pilot)

The best of the lot are Audi and Tesla

https://mashable.com/2017/07/11/2019-audi-a8/#dbF8pQWLTOqL

The cheapest level 2 autonomous is the 2016 Honda Civic $21k plus the Honda sensing option for $1k

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thrillist.com/amphtml/cars/nation/self-driving-cars-for-sale-now

Honda was a late entry into the semi-autonomous driving game, but arrived in a big way when it introduced the 2016 Civic Sedan and Coupe earlier this year. For just a grand, you can buy into the eponymous "Honda Sensing," which is an entire suite of safety technology and driver-assistance features. It’s a little less advanced than a traffic jam assist system, but the Civic can guide its way around a corner and ease the strain of ceaseless city traffic just fine.

——-

Now to answer your question...

Toyota is behind other car companies is autonomous driving so it will be a few years.

But if you are really asking when will a cheap car for the masses have self-driving, the answer is two years ago with the Honda Civic.

[ATL MU Warrior]

But if you are really asking when will a cheap car for the masses have self-driving, the answer is two years ago with the Honda Civic.

Once again, you display that you don't understand the difference between autonomous driving and a simple safety feature.

[Tugg Speedman]

Once again, you display that you don't understand the difference between autonomous driving and a simple safety feature.

Their are six levels of autonomous driving

https://newatlas.com/sae-autonomous-levels-definition-self-driving/49947/

Safety features is not a level, it is something you made up.

We are currently at level 2 and level 3 in current production models.

Why don’t you actually educate yourself on this topic before you hurl insults.

And since your slow.... what level of autonomous driving are you referring to? (Remember, google is your friend)

[StillAWarrior]

Their are six levels of autonomous driving

https://newatlas.com/sae-autonomous-levels-definition-self-driving/49947/

Safety features is not a level, it is something you made up.

We are currently at level 2 and level 3 in current production models.

Why don’t you actually educate yourself on this topic before you hurl insults.

And since your slow.... what level of autonomous driving are you referring to? (Remember, google is your friend)

You're arguing semantics; you know what he's referring to.  Context makes it pretty obvious that he's referring to a variety of features that were marketed as safety options by automakers for many years (e.g., adaptive cruise control, automatic braking, lane change notifications/corrections).  Now that full autonomous driving is much closer to being a thing, a new language is developing around it and these things are being called "level 1" autonomous driving (and bleeding into level 2).

I've said this before on this topic:  you are obviously knowledgeable and bring a lot to the discussion.  It's a shame you always have to be so pedantic to try to prove how much you know.

[ATL MU Warrior]

Their are six levels of autonomous driving

https://newatlas.com/sae-autonomous-levels-definition-self-driving/49947/

Safety features is not a level, it is something you made up.

We are currently at level 2 and level 3 in current production models.

Why don’t you actually educate yourself on this topic before you hurl insults.

And since your slow.... what level of autonomous driving are you referring to? (Remember, google is your friend)

Ok. Whatever you say.

[mu_hilltopper]

Agree with your detractors, Tugg.   So many of the "Level 2" items are what I would consider safety features, rarely being used.  You might disagree, but .. all semantics.

Since most of us do not consider something like "adaptive cruise" or collision braking as anything but an occasional gadget to use, when we discuss "auto driving" we mean at a minimum, Level 3.   I looked at the Honda Civic's system -- it's an OPTION, not standard, like I asked in my query -- and it's clearly level 2, and frankly items I wouldn't pay for myself, let alone other consumers.

So,  I'll restate the question .. what year will a common $17-23k car (Corolla, Civic, Cruise, Focus, Fiesta, etc) car have Level 3 auto-driving as a standard feature, not an upsold option.  I suppose trucks could be a part of that question too, as the F-150 is top selling vehicle. (Wow, $27k for the cheapest.)

Even the Tesla Model 3 .. $35k base price .. the auto-pilot package is a $5k option, doesn't check the box.  Some day it'll be a standard feature .. I'll bet the price is in the $45k range by then -- (admittedly not Elon Musk's vision of a mass market auto car.)

[StillAWarrior]

Agree with your detractors, Tugg.   So many of the "Level 2" items are what I would consider safety features, rarely being used.  You might disagree, but .. all semantics.

Since most of us do not consider something like "adaptive cruise" or collision braking as anything but an occasional gadget to use, when we discuss "auto driving" we mean at a minimum, Level 3.   I looked at the Honda Civic's system -- it's an OPTION, not standard, like I asked in my query -- and it's clearly level 2, and frankly items I wouldn't pay for myself, let alone other consumers.

So,  I'll restate the question .. what year will a common $17-23k car (Corolla, Civic, Cruise, Focus, Fiesta, etc) car have Level 3 auto-driving as a standard feature, not an upsold option.  I suppose trucks could be a part of that question too, as the F-150 is top selling vehicle. (Wow, $27k for the cheapest.)

Even the Tesla Model 3 .. $35k base price .. the auto-pilot package is a $5k option, doesn't check the box.  Some day it'll be a standard feature .. I'll bet the price is in the $45k range by then -- (admittedly not Elon Musk's vision of a mass market auto car.)

Yeah, when someone uses the phrase "autonomous driving" (as you did), they typically have something more in mind than the features we've been seeing for years on higher end cars and more recently on lower end cars (i.e., level 1/2 stuff).  And even more so for the phrase "self-driving" as Tugg used in his post.  I'd venture a guess that very few people would consider the Honda Civic as "autonomous driving" or "self-driving" even if equipped with all the best options available.

If all it takes to qualify as "autonomous" or "self-driving" is to fit into one of the categories on that list, I'm guess my Level 0 1973 VW Bug was much more advanced than I realized.

In common parlance, I think most people referring to "autonomous" or "self-driving" are referring to at least Level 3.