Christian proselytizing to public school basketball players

[GGGG]

Well, let's start with a  textbook in my children's middle school a few years ago that talked about the Jamestown colonists. In one passage, the author wrote that, "the settlers knew tobacco would be bad for people and would cause cancer and other diseases, but they sold it anyway for money."

That's not liberalism.  That's stupidity.

[naginiF]

Well, let's start with a  textbook in my children's middle school a few years ago that talked about the Jamestown colonists. In one passage, the author wrote that, "the settlers knew tobacco would be bad for people and would cause cancer and other diseases, but they sold it anyway for money."

Just in case anyone is confused, the Surgeon General of the United States first documented the link between cigarette smoking and cancer in 1962, under the Kennedy Administration. That was about 275 years after Jamestown and centuries after all these folks had met their maker.

When I pointed out the factual inaccuracies about the narrative to our children's teacher, all she said was, "We thought that was a really good book." When I pointed out the factual mistakes and the implication it makes for capitalism, she looked at me like I just came from Mars.

In this instance is liberal = not true or is liberal = anti cancer?

I don't see anything liberal or conservative about your situation.  Fact vs. falsehood?  yes. 

[Lennys Tap]

Can you actually back up this statement or is this something fox told you?

It's something anyone with an ounce of brains, honesty, integrity and experience knows. My brother-in-law, a college professor who is running for congress in New Jersey as a liberal democrat, freely acknowledges it - but he's a liberal with all those aforementioned qualities.

[Jockey]

Well, let's start with a  textbook in my children's middle school a few years ago that talked about the Jamestown colonists. In one passage, the author wrote that, "the settlers knew tobacco would be bad for people and would cause cancer and other diseases, but they sold it anyway for money."

Just in case anyone is confused, the Surgeon General of the United States first documented the link between cigarette smoking and cancer in 1962, under the Kennedy Administration. That was about 275 years after Jamestown and centuries after all these folks had met their maker.

When I pointed out the factual inaccuracies about the narrative to our children's teacher, all she said was, "We thought that was a really good book." When I pointed out the factual mistakes and the implication it makes for capitalism, she looked at me like I just came from Mars.

1. I don't believe the textbook story.

2. There were clinical reports that smoking caused cancer as early as the 1760s.

[mu_hilltopper]

This is true at every level of the educational system. I can speak from years of experience at the Board level in education.  The ugly truth is the teachers control the grades and no one is willing to stand up to them. Once they get tenure it is game over and they are free to indoctrinate.

Just as an aside the Liberals in education came up with the whole concept of micro aggression.  I actually think  that is a projection of their daily posture.

Serious questions for Herman, or whoever:

Is Marquette liberal, conservative or in-between?   (Maybe better, on a scale of 0-10, 0 being uber liberal, 10 being uber conservative, what number is MU?  What # is UW?  DePaul?  Xavier or Indiana U?)

2nd Q: What makes them that number?   The profs?  Required subject matter?  Student population?

I find it hard to peg MU as liberal or conservative.  Some profs are noticeably one stripe or the other, but the syllabus of most classes don't yield (many) opportunities to be political.  Math, chemistry, accounting, engineering, nursing, physical therapy, information systems, and the like .. you're going to need to go way off topic to get to a conservative or liberal topic the professor could indoctrinate you with.

Sure, the Gender Studies, Peace Studies, Sociology, Antropology, et al. profs are going to be of a certain bent -- but those classes aren't altering the political belief systems of the students .. (i.e. if you chose to go into Gender Studies .. you're probably not voting Republican ever.)

Or is it the student population that 'indoctrinates'?   Over the past 4 election cycles, Catholics are split nearly 50/50, so it's hard to imagine MU students being significantly different than 50/50 -- other than to say youthful people are typically more liberal than their parents.   That would apply to all 18+ year olds, though.

Discuss.

[Jockey]

It's something anyone with an ounce of brains, honesty, integrity and experience knows. My brother-in-law, a college professor who is running for congress in New Jersey as a liberal democrat, freely acknowledges it - but he's a liberal with all those aforementioned qualities.

There is no way for you to know if that is the truth.

And comparing college professors to 1st grade teachers and saying they are all the same is silly.

[Jockey]

Serious questions for Herman, or whoever:

Is Marquette liberal, conservative or in-between?   (Maybe better, on a scale of 0-10, 0 being uber liberal, 10 being uber conservative, what number is MU?  What # is UW?  DePaul?  Xavier or Indiana U?)

2nd Q: What makes them that number?   The profs?  Required subject matter?  Student population?

I find it hard to peg MU as liberal or conservative.  Some profs are noticeably one stripe or the other, but the syllabus of most classes don't yield (many) opportunities to be political.  Math, chemistry, accounting, engineering, nursing, physical therapy, information systems, and the like .. you're going to need to go way off topic to get to a conservative or liberal topic the professor could indoctrinate you with.

Sure, the Gender Studies, Peace Studies, Sociology, Antropology, et al. profs are going to be of a certain bent -- but those classes aren't altering the political belief systems of the students .. (i.e. if you chose to go into Gender Studies .. you're probably not voting Republican ever.)

Or is it the student population that 'indoctrinates'?   Over the past 4 election cycles, Catholics are split nearly 50/50, so it's hard to imagine MU students being significantly different than 50/50 -- other than to say youthful people are typically more liberal than their parents.   That would apply to all 18+ year olds, though.

Discuss.

Topper, if you can put all of this into a 10 second sound bite, then I will believe you.

[GGGG]

It's something anyone with an ounce of brains, honesty, integrity and experience knows. My brother-in-law, a college professor who is running for congress in New Jersey as a liberal democrat, freely acknowledges it - but he's a liberal with all those aforementioned qualities.

The idea that conservative students "face discrimination as a matter of course" on college campuses is a load of bullsh*t.  And to somehow compare it with the discrimination that "blacks and browns" face is mind-boggingly stupid.  But of course this mentality is perpetuated by a group who used to shun people who had a "victim mentality," but now embrace such a mentality with wild abandon.

[Lennys Tap]

There is no way for you to know if that is the truth.

And comparing college professors to 1st grade teachers and saying they are all the same is silly.

If by "knowing" you mean like "knowing" e = mc squared, you're correct. And nowhere did I say that 1st grade teachers and college profs are the same. But I've been on the planet 69+ years, had 18 years of education myself, educated 4 children through college (and in 3 cases grad schools) and have numerous close friends and acquaintances who are educators. Everything I've personally experienced, observed and been told by those in the profession says that those who choose primary/secondary education as a career are overwhelmingly liberal and those who teach in any of the liberal arts departments at most colleges are likewise inclined. I'm sure there are studies done on how teachers vote, what candidates they give money to etc.,- I confess I don't know their results but am confident they would support my thesis.

[GGGG]

If by "knowing" you mean like "knowing" e = mc squared, you're correct. And nowhere did I say that 1st grade teachers and college profs are the same. But I've been on the planet 69+ years, had 18 years of education myself, educated 4 children through college (and in 3 cases grad schools) and have numerous close friends and acquaintances who are educators. Everything I've personally experienced, observed and been told by those in the profession says that those who choose primary/secondary education as a career are overwhelmingly liberal and those who teach in any of the liberal arts departments at most colleges are likewise inclined. I'm sure there are studies done on how teachers vote, what candidates they give money to etc.,- I confess I don't know their results but am confident they would support my thesis.

Just because many teachers and professors are liberal doesn't mean they "indoctrinate" their students. 

[#UnleashSean]

The idea that conservative students "face discrimination as a matter of course" on college campuses is a load of bullsh*t. 

Eh have you seem some of the rallys at campuses?

[Lennys Tap]

The idea that conservative students "face discrimination as a matter of course" on college campuses is a load of bullsh*t. 

Said the dedicated lefty in charge. Shocking!

[GGGG]

Eh have you seem some of the rallys at campuses?

Yes.  They are hardly extensive and hardly "a matter of course."

[GGGG]

Said the dedicated lefty in charge. Shocking!

Yep.  And I'm right too!

[Lennys Tap]

Can you actually back up this statement or is this something fox told you?

Study by the Econ Journal Watch (don't know anything about them, maybe it's BS) surveyed 7,243 professors at 40 major universities. 3,623 reported being registered democrats, 314 registered republicans. IOW 11.5 Ds for every R. Stunning even to me. I'd be interested in other studies and their findings.

[Lennys Tap]

Yep.  And I'm right too!

Right that they deserve a little discrimination. Right.

[GGGG]

LOL, whatever.  Take your victimization elsewhere.  Maybe you and rocket can form a club.

[Pakuni]

Study by the Econ Journal Watch (don't know anything about them, maybe it's BS) surveyed 7,243 professors at 40 major universities. 3,623 reported being registered democrats, 314 registered republicans. IOW 11.5 Ds for every R. Stunning even to me. I'd be interested in other studies and their findings.

So, college instructors' lesson plans are slaves to their political affiliations?
Does a Democrat teach molecular biology differently than a Libertarian? Is the Republican take on Chaucer different than an independent's? Do lDems solve quadratic equations differently than Republicans?

[MU82]

All this stuff about college professors is pretty interesting.

Of course, it has absolutely nothing to do with taking a bunch of public high school kids to a luncheon advertised only as an event at which sandwiches will be served and then force-feeding them evangelical Christianity.

Anybody who does not want their kids to be subjected to liberal professors has a choice: Send them to one of these "conservative universities":

https://thebestschools.org/rankings/20-best-conservative-colleges-america/

Those 15-year-old kids didn't have a choice Friday; they were ambushed by fire and brimstone.

But hey, I love a meandering thread as much as the next Scooper, so carry on ...

[Lennys Tap]

So, college instructors' lesson plans are slaves to their political affiliations?
Does a Democrat teach molecular biology differently than a Libertarian? Is the Republican take on Chaucer different than an independent's? Do lDems solve quadratic equations differently than Republicans?

Biases are less likely (as I pointed out earlier) to be seen in math and hard science, much more likely to rear their heads in the arts and soft sciences. Obvious.

[dgies9156]

1. I don't believe the textbook story.

2. There were clinical reports that smoking caused cancer as early as the 1760s.

1) You're entitled. It's several years old (my daughter will be graduated in the spring from college). But I'm not creative enough to make something like that up. It really happened.

2) Assuming there is factual support for the concern as far back as 1760, that's still more than 100 years after Jamestown.

As to the question of liberal versus conservatism, the analogy suggests that the European colonists would do anything for a buck. That capitalism is evil and that the immoral European settlers took total advantage of the natives. I'm not saying there was not immoral activity in the settlement of the new world, but the facts here do not add up.

[Galway Eagle]

1) You're entitled. It's several years old (my daughter will be graduated in the spring from college). But I'm not creative enough to make something like that up. It really happened.

2) Assuming there is factual support for the concern as far back as 1760, that's still more than 100 years after Jamestown.

As to the question of liberal versus conservatism, the analogy suggests that the European colonists would do anything for a buck. That capitalism is evil and that the immoral European settlers took total advantage of the natives. I'm not saying there was not immoral activity in the settlement of the new world, but the facts here do not add up.

Umm re the natives, really? Like you know we broke treaties, created a mass genocide, and took their land...

[Galway Eagle]

It's something anyone with an ounce of brains, honesty, integrity and experience knows. My brother-in-law, a college professor who is running for congress in New Jersey as a liberal democrat, freely acknowledges it - but he's a liberal with all those aforementioned qualities.

I could agree at the college level, though that wasn’t your insinuation. Also, while your brotherinlaw might know lots of things regarding New Jersey I’m not sure he’s the best source when it comes to the evangelical schools that take federal funding consistently while teaching alt right indoctrination from Abeka, Bob Jones University Press and Accelerated Christian Education.

I’m just thinking you’re so focused on somebody teaching your kids that global warming and evolution are real that you’re ignoring the fact that there’s thousands of schools teaching kids homesxualiy is a horrific sin and that the earth is 6,000 years old.

[Benny B]

Benny, you and I have met and we have had many great conversations on Scoop. We agree on many things, and we never rail at each other.

I happen to disagree with you strongly on this topic.

I've said my piece, so I won't "battle" you here. Have a good one.

Just to be clear, I’m not arguing against you.  If I was in your shoes, I’d have been pretty pissed too.  I don’t like being told what to believe by anyone, but tolerance won’t work when we stand up for it selectively, just like indoctrination will persist when we don’t stand against it consistently.

All we can do is to teach our kids right from wrong... the rest is up to them.  Whether someone preaches lies or false idols to them - whether it’s the bearded guy on the cloud or that global warming is a myth - at the end of the day, all you can do is hope you set a good enough foundation for them to make the right decision. 

After all, the most gullible among us are those who have been shielded from lies all their life.

[MU82]

Just to be clear, I’m not arguing against you.  If I was in your shoes, I’d have been pretty pissed too.  I don’t like being told what to believe by anyone, but tolerance won’t work when we stand up for it selectively, just like indoctrination will persist when we don’t stand against it consistently.

All we can do is to teach our kids right from wrong... the rest is up to them.  Whether someone preaches lies or false idols to them - whether it’s the bearded guy on the cloud or that global warming is a myth - at the end of the day, all you can do is hope you set a good enough foundation for them to make the right decision. 

After all, the most gullible among us are those who have been shielded from lies all their life.

Nicely stated, Benny.

And that last sentence is actually quite elegant. I might have to steal it sometime!