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Author Topic: Christian proselytizing to public school basketball players  (Read 18910 times)

MU82

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Christian proselytizing to public school basketball players
« on: December 30, 2017, 07:54:24 AM »
Something I didn't expect happened at Friday's luncheon for the public-school basketball tournament in which my team is playing this weekend:

Jesus was pushed - aggressively - at the kids.

The tournament is being held at Laney HS in Wilmington NC, MJ's alma mater. It includes 12 public schools - 4 from the local area playing in both the boys and girls events, 4 out-of-town girls teams (including mine), and 4 out-of-town boys teams.

We were "required" to attend Friday's luncheon, which was held in the cafeteria of one of the other Wilmington public schools and was put on by the Fellowship of Christian Athletes. We were told we would get a meal and that there would be a "motivational speaker."

I expected a pre-meal prayer, and I expected a speaker who would talk about the usual: good sportsmanship, being good role models, choosing friends wisely, working hard in school, the importance of education, etc, etc. I told my wife beforehand that because it was a FCA thing, I wouldn't be surprised if a little Jesus was sprinkled in. I wasn't thrilled about that but I accepted that it would probably be the case.

Sure enough, we get the pre-meal prayer; relative short and sweet, with a couple of Jesus references. Forget that my team has a Jewish player, and others might have too, as well as others of different faiths. After 7 years in the Bible Belt, I'm already used to blatant disregard for non-Christians.

About 20 minutes later, as the kids are finishing their meal, the speaker is introduced. He is Wayne Robinson, a 1980 draft pick of the Lakers who had a cup of coffee in the NBA and played several years overseas. He's now an entrepreneur and a minister.

It started innocently enough: He told us his background, coming up from the 'hood to rise to the NBA through hard work and dedication and the love of his parents. He told about how his father worked 3 jobs to support the family and that every Sunday he would have to help his father clean toilets. "I respected my pops and I loved him to death, and I knew he didn't want to clean toilets but he HAD to clean toilets because that's what janitors do. But I decided right then and there that I wasn't going to ever have to clean toilets to support my family."

He asked the kids in the room to raise their hands if they thought they would play basketball in college. Probably half the players raised their hands, maybe a little more. Then he asked if their goal was to play in the NBA or the WNBA. Probably 30 or so hands went up, mostly boys. He then presented several statistics showing how few get basketball scholarships and how very, very few players make it to the pros. "I know that for some of you, education isn't your priority, but I'm here to tell you that if you don't want to be cleaning toilets - or sitting in a jail cell - it had better be a priority."

OK, so far, pretty much what I expected. We were about 6-7 minutes into his spiel.

He then talked about his father again, reminded us that his father had to work on Sundays so he didn't get to go to church. But despite that, he knew that God was in his father and that God was looking over the whole family because they had accepted that Jesus was their Lord and savior.

"OK, here we go," I thought. "Just make it snappy, get back to the 'work hard and stay in school' theme and let's get out of here."

He spent the next 15-20 minutes preachin'.

He said that if you don't let Jesus into your lives, you've got nothing to live for. Which probably was news to any Jews, Muslims or - horrors! - atheists in the audience. He said that the devil was doing everything he could to get to these kids and that they had to guard against it, and the only way to do that was to totally commit to Jesus. He recited bible verses. He relayed a couple of Jesus-filled anecdotes.

At one point, he asked everybody to close their eyes and keep them closed and don't look around the room as he asked a few questions. The first one: Anybody who doesn't believe that Jesus is your Lord and savior, raise a finger. I of course did not have my eyes closed and I was looking around the room. Not one finger went up. Not even mine. I wasn't going to be singled out by this guy ... and neither was the Jewish girl on our team ... and neither were any of the others who might have spelled their god's name differently.

He then asked who thought God probably exists but had some doubts. No fingers. Who didn't go to church regularly. Some fingers. Who considered themselves sinners. Some fingers. And on it went, about 10 questions asked. I was starting to feel a little sick to my stomach over the display.

After that was over, he told everybody to keep their eyes closed and repeat after him. He recited a long, very detailed mantra - I would call it a prayer, but it wasn't really praying but indoctrination - in which each person in the room promised to love and embrace Jesus. All of our players kept their eyes closed that I could see; I was at an adjacent table so I couldn't tell if all of them repeated the words, but our 2 other coaches did.

After that, he said something like: "It warms my heart to have so many believers in one room, but it isn't enough to think you believe or to even believe. You have to embrace Jesus, study his teachings and live your lives the way Jesus wants you to. So in a minute, I will ask everybody to come up here and get one of these books."

They were FCA-endorsed bibles. He described them in detail and again said everybody should go up and get one. They might not have enough for everybody, but if you write down your name and address they'll get one to you. He went on and on about the books.

He then wrapped up his speech with more Jesus talk, saying that if you don't accept Jesus you will never have a fulfilling life, and he pushed the books one more time.

Kids got up and dozens of them formed a line to get the bibles, as he continued urging them to do. I'd say 3 or 4 of our 13 players got in line. The others stood in a group talking.

I got up and stood silently. I didn't say a word, but I also didn't act out or anything. But then our other assistant coach said, "Come on girls, don't you want to get your bibles?"

Very much under my breath I muttered, "Come on, man, really?" Nobody heard me (nor did I want anybody to, including the other assistant, whom I really like.) I walked to the back of the room near the doors so I wouldn't say or do anything I would regret as I waited for a merciful ending to it all.

Finally, we filed out of there and got in our cars. I was the driver of a car with 5 girls. Not a single one of them mentioned the speech/prayer session/recruiting pitch. I thought that was a little odd because it was a long program and the speaker was very personable and forceful. If the speaker had been a truly famous athlete or musician or something, I'm sure they would have gone on and on about him or her. But ... crickets. Instead, they talked about how bad the food at the luncheon was - which was true.

(Interestingly, there haven't been any prayers recited before games. I have been to public-school tournaments here where that has been the case, including the Thanksgiving event we played in just a month earlier; it's pretty common here in the Bible Belt; they do the fairly innocuous "God, keep everybody safe, and guide the players, coaches and spectators to be good sports" deal. But they haven't done it here, at least not the first two days.)

So ...

Is this what I should have expected? Is this the FCA's gig - get a bunch of impressionable public school kids together in one room and spend a half-hour indoctrinating them?

Is it appropriate? Should these 4 public Wilmington schools have aligned themselves not only with a religious group but one that would recruit for Jesus so aggressively to a captive audience? Were adults taking advantage of kids by pushing their views on them? Should any religion have been forced on kids, let along one religion to the exclusion of all others?

Our coach had referred to the luncheon as "mandatory." I wonder if the tournament required us to attend as a condition of playing in it; if so, was that wrong? (It's completely possible that the coach was saying he felt strongly that we should attend; in other words it was mandatory in his eyes. I'm not going to ask him.)

I did learn something. If I am ever a HS head coach, and my AD and I are discussing possible Xmas tournaments, I will not agree to go to any if the FCA (or any similar religious group) has anything to do with it. Believe me, I will do my homework well in advance.

Obviously, y'all know where I am on this. Again, I did not make a scene at all, have not talked about it to anybody, have not complained to anybody affiliated with the event or any school (including ours) and do not plan to. I'm chalking it up as 20-30 minutes of personal hell and, most importantly, a valuable lesson learned.

I'd be curious to hear about what folks think, both all the Christians in Scoopdom and the few fellow atheists in the room.

Happy New Year!
« Last Edit: December 30, 2017, 09:08:22 AM by MU82 »
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

GGGG

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Re: Christian proselytizing to public school basketball players
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2017, 08:07:17 AM »
I think what you have described is very inappropriate.  While I think the FCA can rent the public school facilities for the tournament, I think public schools should not be required to attend such a luncheon and a coach shouldn't require his/her players to go.

#UnleashSean

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Re: Christian proselytizing to public school basketball players
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2017, 08:37:30 AM »
as a relatively young person those motivational speakers people are forced to go to are usually tuned out by pretty much every kid. No surprise to me they didn't talk about him/the bullcrap.

tower912

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Re: Christian proselytizing to public school basketball players
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2017, 09:00:56 AM »
Coach your players to the best of your abilities.    If they are upset, be as supportive as you can.   Communicate with their parents.   File it away for next time.   The organizers may say it is a required luncheon, but if you have players who were uncomfortable, feel free to communicate that to the organizers as the reason you are skipping out on the luncheon.    Finally, winning is the best revenge. 
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

MU82

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Re: Christian proselytizing to public school basketball players
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2017, 09:14:45 AM »
Coach your players to the best of your abilities.    If they are upset, be as supportive as you can.   Communicate with their parents.   File it away for next time.   The organizers may say it is a required luncheon, but if you have players who were uncomfortable, feel free to communicate that to the organizers as the reason you are skipping out on the luncheon.    Finally, winning is the best revenge.

I did not sense that any of the players were upset - more like what URows said: They quickly tuned him out and forgot about him. I haven't reached out to the Jewish girl, and I probably won't because I really don't want to make a big deal of this.

Again, I don't know for sure that teams were required to attend the luncheon. It might have only been our head coach requiring it. I'm going to try to figure out a way to find out just because I'm curious. Even though the coach and I have a good relationship - he hired me, he leans on me for advice and he likes me - I'm not sure I would feel comfortable asking him, given that he definitely repeated the speaker's indoctrination phrases. He and I actually will be making the 3+ hour drive home together later, so I'll have opportunity.

As for winning being the best "revenge," I'm probably the only one who will feel that way about this particular tournament ... but sure ... I like how you think!

We are in the championship game against one of the local teams. Game starts in about 5 hours. I'm always excited to see our kids compete.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

tower912

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Re: Christian proselytizing to public school basketball players
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2017, 09:27:40 AM »
My team plays in the local private (read: religious) school league.    We were playing one of the Christian schools.   For the pregame prayer, the other coach on my team led us all in the Hail Mary.   I chewed his butt quietly afterwards.    He had forgotten that non-Catholics don't use that prayer.    No malice on his part.   Just not thinking.   
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: Christian proselytizing to public school basketball players
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2017, 09:40:34 AM »
Quote
"All right, let's show them we're the No. 1 team in the country and beat the (bleep) out of them. “Queen of Victory, pray for us!"

http://www.catholicplanet.com/articles/article31.htm

MU82

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Re: Christian proselytizing to public school basketball players
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2017, 10:08:29 AM »
My team plays in the local private (read: religious) school league.    We were playing one of the Christian schools.   For the pregame prayer, the other coach on my team led us all in the Hail Mary.   I chewed his butt quietly afterwards.    He had forgotten that non-Catholics don't use that prayer.    No malice on his part.   Just not thinking.

Before this gig, I was head coach at a public middle school for 4 years. Most of the other teams in our conference were Christian schools, and all said a prayer before the games. I understood this and of course had no problem with it.

I had the same 20-second speech before every game: We are a public school, they are a Christian school. They are going to have a prayer circle before the game. I will be standing here respectfully in front of the bench. If you want to participate, you absolutely can. If you do not, you can stay with me at the bench. Most of the players did the prayers. Over 4 years, I think 2 stayed at the bench with me. Either way, I was fine with it. Thankfully, neither we nor the couple other public schools in the league did public pre-game prayers.

All righty ... time to shut down the laptop and get ready for a championship game!!

Go Lady Knights! And Go Marquette!!
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

HansMoleman

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Re: Christian proselytizing to public school basketball players
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2017, 10:25:37 AM »
I am not familiar with the FCA, but it’s clear they are an Evangelical organization that believes in the gospel message as the road to salvation.  They also appear to use personal testimony of their speakers as evidence of dramatic life change, because of the gospel.  As such, a guy like Wayne Robinson is going to use his platform to fulfill the great commission of Mat 28:18-20, because he believes what Jesus said in John 14:6, whether he is talking to an atheist, Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, etc.  However, I too would disagree with mandatory attendance of this luncheon.  Hopefully it was not, nor do I hope you and the other coaches were coerced to attend.  That was a group evangelism session, not a conversation about Jesus at a coffee shop (from which you could walk away).  And if attendance was required, that’s wrong.   

Sounds like you handled it well.  Should make for some interesting conversation with the other coaches on the ride home.  Hope your team did well.

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Christian proselytizing to public school basketball players
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2017, 12:20:12 PM »
It's the FCA's gig so they have the "right" to do whatever they want. I would say its an inappropriate venue for that type of evangilization, but in their minds they are doing the Jewish, Atheist, Muslim, etc. kids a favor. They truly believe they have given these kids the greatest gift they can. I think you handled it as well as you could. I think the only way this changes is if people like you become head coaches and refuse to attend those tournaments until things change.

The more interesting question to me is why do people think this is still an effective means of recruiting kids to a religion? In general, my generation and the youngest generation would be very turned off by a speech like that and it would be more likely to drive them away from church than to it. Sometimes I think that people are more into having their time in the spotlight instead of actually helping someone have a relationship with God.
TAMU

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real chili 83

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Re: Christian proselytizing to public school basketball players
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2017, 01:43:15 PM »
I agree with TAMU. Guy is probably well intended, sincere, and and a good human being. He's probably very charitable.

This one is in FCA.  They knew who he was.  They asked him to do his gig, and he did.

Fool me once....

MU82

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Re: Christian proselytizing to public school basketball players
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2017, 10:14:27 PM »
1. We won the tournament. Played very well and showed those in other parts of the state why we are the best in the Charlotte region!

2. I didn't converse with my coach about this on the way home. We were both in a great mood and I didn't want to open the door to a potentially less-than-fun situation. I often violate the rule about never talking about politics, religion or sex, but I decided this was not the time to talk about religion.

Thanks for the insight so far, everybody.

It was a great Saturday for me, with a tournament victory for my team and the first Big East victory of the season for my other team!
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

Galway Eagle

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Re: Christian proselytizing to public school basketball players
« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2017, 04:28:59 PM »
You live in the south, I’m surprised you get surprised by this.
Maigh Eo for Sam

Herman Cain

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Re: Christian proselytizing to public school basketball players
« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2017, 11:59:14 PM »
Something I didn't expect happened at Friday's luncheon for the public-school basketball tournament in which my team is playing this weekend:

Jesus was pushed - aggressively - at the kids.

The tournament is being held at Laney HS in Wilmington NC, MJ's alma mater. It includes 12 public schools - 4 from the local area playing in both the boys and girls events, 4 out-of-town girls teams (including mine), and 4 out-of-town boys teams.

We were "required" to attend Friday's luncheon, which was held in the cafeteria of one of the other Wilmington public schools and was put on by the Fellowship of Christian Athletes. We were told we would get a meal and that there would be a "motivational speaker."

I expected a pre-meal prayer, and I expected a speaker who would talk about the usual: good sportsmanship, being good role models, choosing friends wisely, working hard in school, the importance of education, etc, etc. I told my wife beforehand that because it was a FCA thing, I wouldn't be surprised if a little Jesus was sprinkled in. I wasn't thrilled about that but I accepted that it would probably be the case.

Sure enough, we get the pre-meal prayer; relative short and sweet, with a couple of Jesus references. Forget that my team has a Jewish player, and others might have too, as well as others of different faiths. After 7 years in the Bible Belt, I'm already used to blatant disregard for non-Christians.

About 20 minutes later, as the kids are finishing their meal, the speaker is introduced. He is Wayne Robinson, a 1980 draft pick of the Lakers who had a cup of coffee in the NBA and played several years overseas. He's now an entrepreneur and a minister.

It started innocently enough: He told us his background, coming up from the 'hood to rise to the NBA through hard work and dedication and the love of his parents. He told about how his father worked 3 jobs to support the family and that every Sunday he would have to help his father clean toilets. "I respected my pops and I loved him to death, and I knew he didn't want to clean toilets but he HAD to clean toilets because that's what janitors do. But I decided right then and there that I wasn't going to ever have to clean toilets to support my family."

He asked the kids in the room to raise their hands if they thought they would play basketball in college. Probably half the players raised their hands, maybe a little more. Then he asked if their goal was to play in the NBA or the WNBA. Probably 30 or so hands went up, mostly boys. He then presented several statistics showing how few get basketball scholarships and how very, very few players make it to the pros. "I know that for some of you, education isn't your priority, but I'm here to tell you that if you don't want to be cleaning toilets - or sitting in a jail cell - it had better be a priority."

OK, so far, pretty much what I expected. We were about 6-7 minutes into his spiel.

He then talked about his father again, reminded us that his father had to work on Sundays so he didn't get to go to church. But despite that, he knew that God was in his father and that God was looking over the whole family because they had accepted that Jesus was their Lord and savior.

"OK, here we go," I thought. "Just make it snappy, get back to the 'work hard and stay in school' theme and let's get out of here."

He spent the next 15-20 minutes preachin'.

He said that if you don't let Jesus into your lives, you've got nothing to live for. Which probably was news to any Jews, Muslims or - horrors! - atheists in the audience. He said that the devil was doing everything he could to get to these kids and that they had to guard against it, and the only way to do that was to totally commit to Jesus. He recited bible verses. He relayed a couple of Jesus-filled anecdotes.

At one point, he asked everybody to close their eyes and keep them closed and don't look around the room as he asked a few questions. The first one: Anybody who doesn't believe that Jesus is your Lord and savior, raise a finger. I of course did not have my eyes closed and I was looking around the room. Not one finger went up. Not even mine. I wasn't going to be singled out by this guy ... and neither was the Jewish girl on our team ... and neither were any of the others who might have spelled their god's name differently.

He then asked who thought God probably exists but had some doubts. No fingers. Who didn't go to church regularly. Some fingers. Who considered themselves sinners. Some fingers. And on it went, about 10 questions asked. I was starting to feel a little sick to my stomach over the display.

After that was over, he told everybody to keep their eyes closed and repeat after him. He recited a long, very detailed mantra - I would call it a prayer, but it wasn't really praying but indoctrination - in which each person in the room promised to love and embrace Jesus. All of our players kept their eyes closed that I could see; I was at an adjacent table so I couldn't tell if all of them repeated the words, but our 2 other coaches did.

After that, he said something like: "It warms my heart to have so many believers in one room, but it isn't enough to think you believe or to even believe. You have to embrace Jesus, study his teachings and live your lives the way Jesus wants you to. So in a minute, I will ask everybody to come up here and get one of these books."

They were FCA-endorsed bibles. He described them in detail and again said everybody should go up and get one. They might not have enough for everybody, but if you write down your name and address they'll get one to you. He went on and on about the books.

He then wrapped up his speech with more Jesus talk, saying that if you don't accept Jesus you will never have a fulfilling life, and he pushed the books one more time.

Kids got up and dozens of them formed a line to get the bibles, as he continued urging them to do. I'd say 3 or 4 of our 13 players got in line. The others stood in a group talking.

I got up and stood silently. I didn't say a word, but I also didn't act out or anything. But then our other assistant coach said, "Come on girls, don't you want to get your bibles?"

Very much under my breath I muttered, "Come on, man, really?" Nobody heard me (nor did I want anybody to, including the other assistant, whom I really like.) I walked to the back of the room near the doors so I wouldn't say or do anything I would regret as I waited for a merciful ending to it all.

Finally, we filed out of there and got in our cars. I was the driver of a car with 5 girls. Not a single one of them mentioned the speech/prayer session/recruiting pitch. I thought that was a little odd because it was a long program and the speaker was very personable and forceful. If the speaker had been a truly famous athlete or musician or something, I'm sure they would have gone on and on about him or her. But ... crickets. Instead, they talked about how bad the food at the luncheon was - which was true.

(Interestingly, there haven't been any prayers recited before games. I have been to public-school tournaments here where that has been the case, including the Thanksgiving event we played in just a month earlier; it's pretty common here in the Bible Belt; they do the fairly innocuous "God, keep everybody safe, and guide the players, coaches and spectators to be good sports" deal. But they haven't done it here, at least not the first two days.)

So ...

Is this what I should have expected? Is this the FCA's gig - get a bunch of impressionable public school kids together in one room and spend a half-hour indoctrinating them?

Is it appropriate? Should these 4 public Wilmington schools have aligned themselves not only with a religious group but one that would recruit for Jesus so aggressively to a captive audience? Were adults taking advantage of kids by pushing their views on them? Should any religion have been forced on kids, let along one religion to the exclusion of all others?

Our coach had referred to the luncheon as "mandatory." I wonder if the tournament required us to attend as a condition of playing in it; if so, was that wrong? (It's completely possible that the coach was saying he felt strongly that we should attend; in other words it was mandatory in his eyes. I'm not going to ask him.)

I did learn something. If I am ever a HS head coach, and my AD and I are discussing possible Xmas tournaments, I will not agree to go to any if the FCA (or any similar religious group) has anything to do with it. Believe me, I will do my homework well in advance.

Obviously, y'all know where I am on this. Again, I did not make a scene at all, have not talked about it to anybody, have not complained to anybody affiliated with the event or any school (including ours) and do not plan to. I'm chalking it up as 20-30 minutes of personal hell and, most importantly, a valuable lesson learned.

I'd be curious to hear about what folks think, both all the Christians in Scoopdom and the few fellow atheists in the room.

Happy New Year!

All 3 of my kids played for FCA over the years. I found the organization to provide a solid experience.   People understand going in there is going to be a religious element involved. It is not a big deal and I think you are overly sensitive respecting these religious matters ( like when you got worked up over your friendly neighbors and the Christmas ornaments).  . Just be happy you live in a country that lets you practice whatever religion you want. There are places where that is not the case.
Winning is overrated. The only time it is really important is in surgery and war.
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MU82

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Re: Christian proselytizing to public school basketball players
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2018, 12:07:28 AM »
All 3 of my kids played for FCA over the years. I found the organization to provide a solid experience.   People understand going in there is going to be a religious element involved. It is not a big deal and I think you are overly sensitive respecting these religious matters ( like when you got worked up over your friendly neighbors and the Christmas ornaments).  . Just be happy you live in a country that lets you practice whatever religion you want. There are places where that is not the case.

Respectfully, if you think that there is no difference between "a religious element" and the scenario I described, I don't know what to say.

I would posit that 90% or more of those public schoolkids who were dragged to that luncheon had absolutely no idea they were about to be subject to a minister screaming at them about Jesus and the devil for 15-20 minutes.

I am very happy to live in America, and I am extremely happy about the diversity of thought that makes America great.

You live in the south, I’m surprised you get surprised by this.

I was not surprised by Jesus being invoked in the pre-meal prayer. Indeed, I would have been surprised had he not been, because I have observed that most folks here don't give a crap whether people of other faiths are in the room.

But yes, I was absolutely surprised by the forcefulness of the proselytizing that these kids were subjected to.
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dgies9156

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Re: Christian proselytizing to public school basketball players
« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2018, 07:42:45 AM »
You live in the south, I’m surprised you get surprised by this.

There is a huge difference between the "New South" and the South in which I was raised in the 1960s and 1970s. The New South has been so flooded by "outsiders" that the traditional role of religious sects has been diminished dramatically. Both Charlotte and Nashville have grown exponentially and the folks moving in tend to have less of link to Evangelicals.

The Old South still exists in rural areas as well as Alabama, Mississippi and Arkansas. But you see far less of intolerance and legalized vice control (aka, dry counties) than you did when I was a child in Nashville. You knew something was changing when Nashville began having openly gay and lesbian neighborhoods!

MU82

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Re: Christian proselytizing to public school basketball players
« Reply #16 on: January 01, 2018, 12:08:08 PM »
All 3 of my kids played for FCA over the years. I found the organization to provide a solid experience. ... Just be happy you live in a country that lets you practice whatever religion you want.

I actually thought about this a little more since my previous response, 9-9-9.

You actively chose the FCA experience for your kids. It provided what you had hoped from it, and I am glad for your family.

I do hope you see how that is VERY different from what happened at this event Friday night. Those kids did not choose the FCA experience. Nor did their parents choose it for them. It was forced upon them.

Here is what the team itinerary that was distributed to parents, coaches and athletes 2 days before the trip said:

Friday, December 29th: Lunch - Subs/Sandwiches

Nowhere was it mentioned that it would be a bible-thumping religious event - and that the religion would be  evangelical Christian, with the speaker being a minister who would spend 15-20 minutes proselytizing to PUBLIC school kids.

Our team has a Jewish girl. The team we played in our first game had at least one Muslim player (pretty sure, because she wore a hijab while she played); a second player on that team was named Muhammed, so she might have been Muslim, too. I'm an atheist. I would be surprised if there weren't other Jews, Muslims, those of other faiths, atheists, etc., in that room.

They were absolutely not there by choice, and their parents would not have been pleased if they heard the speaker's message which he shouted repeatedly: Only those who accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior can have meaningful, fulfilling, successful lives.

Please tell me you see the difference between you choosing FCA for your kids vs. what was chosen for those kids Friday.

If not, there's no point in ever having an intelligent discussion about religion in America.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

Jay Bee

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Re: Christian proselytizing to public school basketball players
« Reply #17 on: January 01, 2018, 12:10:57 PM »

The team we played in our first game had at least one Muslim player (pretty sure, because she wore a hijab while she played); a second player on that team was named Muhammed, so she might have been Muslim, too.

If not, there's no point in ever having an intelligent discussion about religion in America.

smh
Thanks for ruining summer, Canada.

MU82

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Re: Christian proselytizing to public school basketball players
« Reply #18 on: January 01, 2018, 12:13:09 PM »
smh

Huh?

Your going to take that and dismiss my overall point?

Again, I don't know wtf you have against me, JB. Trying to have a serious discussion here.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

Jay Bee

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Re: Christian proselytizing to public school basketball players
« Reply #19 on: January 01, 2018, 12:21:51 PM »
Huh?

Your going to take that and dismiss my overall point?

Again, I don't know wtf you have against me, JB. Trying to have a serious discussion here.

You're vs. your.

Maybe your neighbors thought you looked like a Christian?

Thanks for ruining summer, Canada.

warriorchick

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Re: Christian proselytizing to public school basketball players
« Reply #20 on: January 01, 2018, 12:32:05 PM »
Huh?

Your going to take that and dismiss my overall point?

Again, I don't know wtf you have against me, JB. Trying to have a serious discussion here.

Jay Bee obviously has a wicked hangover today and is taking out his pain on everyone on Scoop.
Have some patience, FFS.

jsglow

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Re: Christian proselytizing to public school basketball players
« Reply #21 on: January 01, 2018, 01:41:29 PM »
I'll answer your question MU.  The speaker's remarks were inappropriate.  In fact they were pretty far 'out of bounds'.  As you said, a simple prayer or a single reference to the almighty, no problem.

Herman Cain

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Re: Christian proselytizing to public school basketball players
« Reply #22 on: January 01, 2018, 01:59:12 PM »
I actually thought about this a little more since my previous response, 9-9-9.

You actively chose the FCA experience for your kids. It provided what you had hoped from it, and I am glad for your family.

I do hope you see how that is VERY different from what happened at this event Friday night. Those kids did not choose the FCA experience. Nor did their parents choose it for them. It was forced upon them.

Here is what the team itinerary that was distributed to parents, coaches and athletes 2 days before the trip said:

Friday, December 29th: Lunch - Subs/Sandwiches

Nowhere was it mentioned that it would be a bible-thumping religious event - and that the religion would be  evangelical Christian, with the speaker being a minister who would spend 15-20 minutes proselytizing to PUBLIC school kids.

Our team has a Jewish girl. The team we played in our first game had at least one Muslim player (pretty sure, because she wore a hijab while she played); a second player on that team was named Muhammed, so she might have been Muslim, too. I'm an atheist. I would be surprised if there weren't other Jews, Muslims, those of other faiths, atheists, etc., in that room.

They were absolutely not there by choice, and their parents would not have been pleased if they heard the speaker's message which he shouted repeatedly: Only those who accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior can have meaningful, fulfilling, successful lives.

Please tell me you see the difference between you choosing FCA for your kids vs. what was chosen for those kids Friday.

If not, there's no point in ever having an intelligent discussion about religion in America.
Yes I understand the difference between doing something by choice versus having something foisted upon you.

The reality though is every day there are people foisting values you may not share on kids. You happened to to stumble into a religious setting. From my point of view, the entire academic establishment in america is foisting their liberal values on kids.  So from my point of view having kids listen to something at one lunch is not a big deal. Should the organizers have been more forthcoming , yes. At least that way you could have done something in advance, such as eat first with no rhetoric, and then optional rhetoric for example.
Winning is overrated. The only time it is really important is in surgery and war.
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tower912

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Re: Christian proselytizing to public school basketball players
« Reply #23 on: January 01, 2018, 02:05:36 PM »
The longer I think on this, the more I admire your restraint, Mike.   I probably would have given into my impetuous side and got up and walked out. 
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Jockey

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Re: Christian proselytizing to public school basketball players
« Reply #24 on: January 01, 2018, 04:10:25 PM »
Jay Bee obviously has a wicked hangover today and is taking out his pain on everyone on Scoop.

Either he has a wicked hangover every day or he is just a pretentious jerk.