The Other Side Of Wojo's Ledger

[Newsdreams]

Only played 5 times as #1 ranked team.

Took 13 seasons to get a NC

[mufvr]

I'll celebrate Wojo's success when other teams storm the court when they beat us.

[Galway Eagle]

Bagpiping

Difference is, when Al was coach,  MU actually was the number one team that others wanted to beat. Not #1 a ton of weeks, but top ten for a decade. Beating #1 is a big deal regardless of coach and glad they did it last year. I would much prefer being the team others want to beat.

Which I agree with but the point is you're never too big to have excitement about beating the number one team. Guru and Unleash claiming that we've fallen to the level of being excited about that win it patently false I don't care if it was the 70s or Wade, the big 3 or buzz teams all those eras would be and should be excited about beating the number 1 team in the country.

[skianth16]

There have been some nice moments for Wojo, and beating Nova last year definitely counts. Remember when we beat #2 UConn in our first Big East game ever? That was huge and for some was one of the most memorable games they've been to.

But really, outside of beating Nova and landing Ellenson, I don't think Wojo has done anything that have set him apart. MU has won at UW against strong teams dozens of times, making the tournament is definitely nothing new, and scoring a bunch of points isn't all that great when you always give up a bunch of points too. He's going to need to have a much stronger list of accomplishments before I'm sold. (and yes, I'm fully aware that Wojo doesn't need or care about my approval)

[brewcity77]

Actually al beat the number one team. He just didn't do it in the regular season.

No he didn't. Marquette is 2-10 against the number one team. Kentucky in 2003 and Villanova in 2017. Unless the JS Online article from the Nova game was wrong...

https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/marquette/2017/01/24/mu-74-villanova-72-golden-eagles-stun-aps-no-1/96989750/

[Galway Eagle]

No he didn't. Marquette is 2-10 against the number one team. Kentucky in 2003 and Villanova in 2017. Unless the JS Online article from the Nova game was wrong...

https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/marquette/2017/01/24/mu-74-villanova-72-golden-eagles-stun-aps-no-1/96989750/

He refuses to acknowledge he was talking out of his a$$

[#UnleashSean]

No he didn't. Marquette is 2-10 against the number one team. Kentucky in 2003 and Villanova in 2017. Unless the JS Online article from the Nova game was wrong...

https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/marquette/2017/01/24/mu-74-villanova-72-golden-eagles-stun-aps-no-1/96989750/

My mistake. Though he's still not the 1dst to beat a number 1. And still believe it'd not a humongous deal outside of that 1 year getting a post season bid.

[brewcity77]

My mistake. Though he's still not the 1dst to beat a number 1. And still believe it'd not a humongous deal outside of that 1 year getting a post season bid.

I have been to my share of games in the past couple decades since I started at Marquette. Without a doubt, those two wins, and I was at both, were the most electric moments for fans of games I've attended. Others have been big, but those had another level to them. That Villanova game, the postgame atmosphere was the best I've ever seen at the BC.

If you don't think that was a big deal, either you weren't there or you haven't experienced much basketball. No, it wasn't 1977, but I think you'd be hard pressed to say it wasn't top-10 since that night in Atlanta. And I'd think closer to the top half of that top-10 than the bottom.

[#UnleashSean]

I have been to my share of games in the past couple decades since I started at Marquette. Without a doubt, those two wins, and I was at both, were the most electric moments for fans of games I've attended. Others have been big, but those had another level to them. That Villanova game, the postgame atmosphere was the best I've ever seen at the BC.

If you don't think that was a big deal, either you weren't there or you haven't experienced much basketball. No, it wasn't 1977, but I think you'd be hard pressed to say it wasn't top-10 since that night in Atlanta. And I'd think closer to the top half of that top-10 than the bottom.

I'm not saying it wasn't exciting or a big deal at the time. I'm saying that it's not a big deal in the grand scheme of Wojos coaching career. It happened. It wasn't a turning point in his career. We still struggled. At the end of the day it was a regular season W in what hopefully will be barely a footnote season in his career.

Now if it truly is his crowning moment and a big deal I don't see him coaching here in 2 years

[muguru]

I have been to my share of games in the past couple decades since I started at Marquette. Without a doubt, those two wins, and I was at both, were the most electric moments for fans of games I've attended. Others have been big, but those had another level to them. That Villanova game, the postgame atmosphere was the best I've ever seen at the BC.

If you don't think that was a big deal, either you weren't there or you haven't experienced much basketball. No, it wasn't 1977, but I think you'd be hard pressed to say it wasn't top-10 since that night in Atlanta. And I'd think closer to the top half of that top-10 than the bottom.

I have been to some great MU games through the years as a season ticket holder..at or near the top(for regular season games) was beating Cincy to clinch the regular season CUSA title. I never said the Nova win wasn't big..It was, I just wish it wasn't THAT big of a deal(ie, MU was at a level where beating #1 is a big win, it's NOT at court storming level...in other words, MU is a top 10 team or so, so beating #1 though an upset, isn't that monumental of one). My biggest issue with it, and what killed the vibe completely from that night, was turning around on Saturday and gagging one away to Providence. Wins like that should be springboards, should send teams on runs etc..it really didn't do that for MU at all. I remember many people on these boards proclaiming that a win like that can be "program changing". Anyone want to rethink that proclamation??

[muguru]

I'm not saying it wasn't exciting or a big deal at the time. I'm saying that it's not a big deal in the grand scheme of Wojos coaching career. It happened. It wasn't a turning point in his career. We still struggled. At the end of the day it was a regular season W in what hopefully will be barely a footnote season in his career.

Now if it truly is his crowning moment and a big deal I don't see him coaching here in 2 years

This +1000, as I noted in my post below, it was really an "isolated" incident, rather then a springboard for things for MU. I mean they turned right around that Saturday and gagged one away against Providence. They gained literally zero momentum from that win for the rest of the year. It was a great night, but that's all it was..ONE night. Like Ron Wolff once said "nothing more than a fart in the wind".

[skianth16]

This +1000, as I noted in my post below, it was really an "isolated" incident, rather then a springboard for things for MU. I mean they turned right around that Saturday and gagged one away against Providence. They gained literally zero momentum from that win for the rest of the year. It was a great night, but that's all it was..ONE night. Like Ron Wolff once said "nothing more than a fart in the wind".

Unfortunately, this is largely true. On one hand, it probably was the difference-maker for us getting into the tournament, but on the other, it didn't seem to change the way the team played after. It's a great feather in the cap, no doubt, but I don't think it will end up playing a role in the path this program is headed. And that is neither good nor bad, just neutral. It happened; nothing changed afterward.

[Pakuni]

There have been some nice moments for Wojo, and beating Nova last year definitely counts. Remember when we beat #2 UConn in our first Big East game ever? That was huge and for some was one of the most memorable games they've been to.

But really, outside of beating Nova and landing Ellenson, I don't think Wojo has done anything that have set him apart. MU has won at UW against strong teams dozens of times,

Uhhh ... what?
Since 1985, Marquette is 5-13 in Madison.
Where are these "dozens" of wins over strong UW teams?

Wojo remains a work in progress, but let's not go writing fiction to take away one of his accomplishments.

[brewcity77]

I never said the Nova win wasn't big..It was, I just wish it wasn't THAT big of a deal(ie, MU was at a level where beating #1 is a big win, it's NOT at court storming level...in other words, MU is a top 10 team or so, so beating #1 though an upset, isn't that monumental of one).

Considering Al never beat #1, considering that prior to that night we had done it once in our history, it was always going to be that big. It would've been big in 1967, 1977, 2007, and was in 2017.

We all know you want Marquette to be viewed as a peer to Kentucky and Duke, but we're not there and haven't been close for 40+ years. It's worth enjoying what we have and not just a pie in the sky ideal that will most likely never happen again. I hope it does, I desperately want us to follow in Nova's footsteps, but even they are a couple steps away from the true blue bloods.

It'll take at least 6-10 years from now to reach your promised land and that kind of success can't be forced or rushed.

[MUBigDance]

I want a season to remember not just a game to remember.

I remember Al as a Detroit Fan in my Teens. MU was just a good team that was a challenge to beat. Al called the UD field house a Zoo and it was! I remember DickieV and the few great years. Duerod, Long, Tyler. But not games so much. Did we ever beat MU? Need to google. But a great time with my dad down at UD.

I became a MU fan during Crean 2 Buzz. So I have similar though fresher memories of Buzz teams. Jimmy's And-1s, Jae and Devonte, I do remember the Davidson win. But it was the culmination of a nice NCAA birth season.

None of that yet from Wojo. I like him. Don't fire him! Give him 5 more years. I'm looking for seasons and players to remember. HE 1yr ehh. Markus will give us memories but need wins to back it up.

Done rattling on. That UGA Loss really bugs me.

[muguru]

Considering Al never beat #1, considering that prior to that night we had done it once in our history, it was always going to be that big. It would've been big in 1967, 1977, 2007, and was in 2017.

We all know you want Marquette to be viewed as a peer to Kentucky and Duke, but we're not there and haven't been close for 40+ years. It's worth enjoying what we have and not just a pie in the sky ideal that will most likely never happen again. I hope it does, I desperately want us to follow in Nova's footsteps, but even they are a couple steps away from the true blue bloods.

It'll take at least 6-10 years from now to reach your promised land and that kind of success can't be forced or rushed.

I want one more National championship in my lifetime...That's it. I don't care if it means making an incredible unexpected run through the tourney, I don't care if it's because they were the best team in the country all season long. I just want that Natty, one more time. If that happens, honestly, if the program goes into obscurity after that, yeah it's be disappointing, but not devastating to me. They do that, whatever happens after that is what happens.

[bilsu]

Bagpiping

Difference is, when Al was coach,  MU actually was the number one team that others wanted to beat. Not #1 a ton of weeks, but top ten for a decade. Beating #1 is a big deal regardless of coach and glad they did it last year. I would much prefer being the team others want to beat.

Not true. UCLA was the number one team and we never played them.

[bilsu]

If our top positives are beating two teams who we used to beat all the time I think I'm a bit scared. (plus that Wisconsin team was just coming off an L to uwm right?)

Had we lost to Wisconsin, I believe Bo would of retired after that game with his last win against MU. Beating him made him hang around for one more game.

[Pakuni]

If our top positives are beating two teams who we used to beat all the time I think I'm a bit scared. (plus that Wisconsin team was just coming off an L to uwm right?)

Good point.
This is why NC State should never celebrate a win over Duke, and Oregon State shouldn't make a big deal about beating Arizona.

[Goose]

bilsu

Not sure what you mean? You are saying we never played a game being ranked #1?

[skianth16]

Uhhh ... what?
Since 1985, Marquette is 5-13 in Madison.
Where are these "dozens" of wins over strong UW teams?

Wojo remains a work in progress, but let's not go writing fiction to take away one of his accomplishments.

Why did you pick '85 as your benchmark year? We've been playing against UW since The Great War. My point was that it's nothing new for an MU coach to win in Madison. Do we want this win more than most? Yes, absolutely. But let's not act like getting a win at the Kohl Center is enough for anyone to build a resume off of.

[GGGG]

Why did you pick '85 as your benchmark year? We've been playing against UW since The Great War. My point was that it's nothing new for an MU coach to win in Madison. Do we want this win more than most? Yes, absolutely. But let's not act like getting a win at the Kohl Center is enough for anyone to build a resume off of.

I have no idea why he picked it 1985.

But you said "strong" UW teams. Al, Hank and Rick never faced a UW team that made a post season tournament of any kind.

You exaggerated and were called on it.

[Pakuni]

Why did you pick '85 as your benchmark year? We've been playing against UW since The Great War. My point was that it's nothing new for an MU coach to win in Madison. Do we want this win more than most? Yes, absolutely. But let's not act like getting a win at the Kohl Center is enough for anyone to build a resume off of.

OK, how many "strong" UW teams did Marquette beat in Madison before 1985? How many "strong" UW teams existed before 1985? They made two tournament appearances between 1898 and 1985.

I mean, I could have chosen 1994 but the point would have been the same.

[skianth16]

OK, how many "strong" UW teams did Marquette beat in Madison before 1985? How many "strong" UW teams existed before 1985? They made two tournament appearances between 1898 and 1985.

I mean, I could have chosen 1994 but the point would have been the same.

Choosing 1994 would barely give you dozens of matchups to even consider, so it would defeat the point.

At the end of the day, my point is clear. The pissing matches on Scoop are getting so obnoxious. It's all that happens on here lately since we can't be excited about basketball.

[skianth16]

Choosing 1994 would barely give you dozens of matchups to even consider, so it would defeat the point.

At the end of the day, my point is clear. The pissing matches on Scoop are getting so obnoxious. It's all that happens on here lately since we can't be excited about basketball.

*edit - choosing 1994 wouldn't even give you 2 dozen matchups