MLB 2018 Season

[Vander Blue Man Group]

It's good too see the bad side of the deal too. Regardless of logic.

If Darvish is a solid 2 for 3 seasons, l'll be delighted. Darvish also has no trade protection, which should be noted, huge part of this deal.

Of course.  I never said it wasn't risky or that there isn't an immense downside.  There always is with long-term deals for pitchers. 

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Hmm, I'm going to have to change my Scoop password if someone from my username was telling you Yu is on PEDs.  Would I be surprised if he was?  Not in the least bit.  When Dee Gordon was suspended for PED use that was the last time I will ever be surprised to find out any professional athlete uses PEDs.  But I can't say Yu being a clear cut PED user like the 3 Cubs I've said undoubtedly have used PEDs has ever crossed my mind.

Then again, the 20-some year old who threw 100 MPH routinely, was constantly facing nagging injuries, and came onto the scene at the height of anabolic steroid use when 95% of MLB players were using PEDs had a baby face and threw this pitch called a curveball that nobody else ever threw, so of course he wasn't using PEDs.  And the guy who went from hitting 8 home runs to 33 and then all the way up to 66 home runs in a season couldn't speak English, so how could he get steroids?  And the pitcher who was absolutely horrendous until his youthful 28 year old season and in one offseason became one of the best pitchers in baseball just needed Jesus Bosio (who the Cubs just fired) to resurrect his career from the dead.

You're forgetting something.  You're arguing with Cubs fans.  The Cubs have never made a bad move in the history of the franchise.  They're the greatest baseball franchise ever created.  If they sign someone whose former team no longer wanted them, it's a great bargain move!  If they let someone walk that another team signs up, that new team got screwed, the Cubs know exactly what that person was and he totally isn't worth it!

You're an idiot, Wades. 

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Not weird he turned it down,  weird that the Cubs offered.   VB indicated the Cubs knew better and didn't have interest.

I never once said the Cubs didn't have interest.  If they did in fact offer him 6 years that would surprise me a great deal.  Of course, like your Darvish/Dodgers example and knowing Boras' demands, was there any chance it would have been accepted?

Darvish has clearly been the team's preference.  Like it or not, that likely weighs into other team's pursuits as a factor.  Never said it was the only factor. 

[Pakuni]

Darvish has clearly been the team's preference.  Like it or not, that likely weighs into other team's pursuits as a factor.  Never said it was the only factor.

If Darvish clearly was the team's preference, why make the last-ditch effort to five Arrieta the same deal?
Seems more likely Arrieta was the slight preference, but they wanted to get one of them locked down with that contract and took the guy who blinked first.

[MerrittsMustache]

I know how to cut and paste from other websites.

The Cubs 25 man roster this year is pretty much set.  Even next year, Justin Wilson is the only player not under contract.

Prediction: Steve Cishek and Justin Wilson will be the Cubs' top 2 arms out of the pen this season.

[🏀]

If Darvish clearly was the team's preference, why make the last-ditch effort to five Arrieta the same deal?
Seems more likely Arrieta was the slight preference, but they wanted to get one of them locked down with that contract and took the guy who blinked first.

I think that Heyman report is a huge favor to Boras, there's no way the Cubs (or any team) talked to any FA pitcher, let alone Arrieta in that manner. "Hey Jake, if Darvish doesn't take this deal, you can have the exact same one"

Heyman is trumpeting for Boras.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

I think that Heyman report is a huge favor to Boras, there's no way the Cubs (or any team) talked to any FA pitcher, let alone Arrieta in that manner. "Hey Jake, if Darvish doesn't take this deal, you can have the exact same one"

Heyman is trumpeting for Boras.

Was just about to post the same exact thing.  Based on everything else that was reported throughout the offseason, there was no indication the Cubs would go past 4 years for Arrieta.  But once Yu signs they were willing to go to 6? 

I'm skeptical. 

[Pakuni]

Was just about to post the same exact thing.  Based on everything else that was reported throughout the offseason, there was no indication the Cubs would go past 4 years for Arrieta.  But once Yu signs they were willing to go to 6? 

I'm skeptical.

Respectfully, you guys have the story completely wrong.
The offer to Arrieta came before Darvish signed, not after.

It was reported as "Darvish is close to taking this deal, but we'll give it to you instead if you want to stay here." In other words, before signing Darvish, Theo tried to sign Arrieta to the same contract. Arrieta declined.

Maybe Heyman is doing Boras a favor? It's possible, I suppose. But not everything is a shady conspiracy. Maybe it's just a matter of Arrieta wanting more than the Cubs were willing to pay. It happens.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Respectfully, you guys have the story completely wrong.
The offer to Arrieta came before Darvish signed, not after.

It was reported as "Darvish is close to taking this deal, but we'll give it to you instead if you want to stay here." In other words, before signing Darvish, Theo tried to sign Arrieta to the same contract. Arrieta declined.

Maybe Heyman is doing Boras a favor? It's possible, I suppose. But not everything is a shady conspiracy. Maybe it's just a matter of Arrieta wanting more than the Cubs were willing to pay. It happens.

Arrieta did want more than the Cubs were willing to pay.  By all accounts the Cubs also preferred Darvish so the timing and reporting of a 6 year offer to Arrieta seems awfully convenient with him struggling to drum up much interest on the market. 

[buckchuckler]

I never once said the Cubs didn't have interest.  If they did in fact offer him 6 years that would surprise me a great deal.  Of course, like your Darvish/Dodgers example and knowing Boras' demands, was there any chance it would have been accepted?

Darvish has clearly been the team's preference.  Like it or not, that likely weighs into other team's pursuits as a factor.  Never said it was the only factor.

Really?  Hmm.  You said

The Cubs lack of interest in Arrieta has hurt his market. Who would know him better?

I didn't realize "lack of interest" and "didn't have interest" were so different.  Though I am "dumb" and "illogical" so I guess the nuance escapes me. 

The Cubs were obviously interested in Arrieta.  There were multiple credible reports from different credible sources throughout the offseason that the Cubs made a couple (at least) different offers to Arrieta. 

And while your reason was "who would know him better", which I thought (and still do, and clearly it carries no water) was ridiculous.

Actually I said

The who know him better thing is ridiculous.  For 100 different reasons, number 1 probably being Scott Boras.

I stand by that.  In every way.  Boras was crowing about a 7/200 deal for Arrieta which is out of line.  That has scared teams away.  Just like his 300 predictions for JDM have kept most teams away and no one has even approached that number (by reports anyways). 

Teams have their own ways of evaluating players.  To think that they see the Cubs not going hard after a guy, so they don't is incredibly arrogant.  You really think other teams make their decisions based off who the Cubs like and dislike?

Boras is the probably the primary reason Arrieta is not on the Cubs and probably the reason for his relatively quiet market.  Not some insider information the Cubs have because they "know him".

[buckchuckler]

Darvish, $21m AAV through 2023
Cueto, $21.6m AAV through 2022
Zimmerman, $22m AAV through 2021

Include the no trade protection and the opt out after two years, this deal is good.

Wasn't Cueto better pretty much every where but K numbers when he signed his deal?  If nothing else he seems like a pretty appropriate comparison which would indicate more of a market deal than a bargain.

[buckchuckler]

Speaking of pitchers with Chicago connections:

Esteban Loaiza pitched for 14 years in the major leagues. He’s now facing way more time than that in the California Penal League.
Multiple news outlets are reporting that Loaiza was arrested in San Diego County on Friday for transporting roughly 44 pounds of heroin and cocaine.

http://mlb.nbcsports.com/2018/02/12/former-mlb-pitcher-esteban-loaiza-arrested-with-44-pounds-of-heroin-and-cocaine/

This is bonkers.  Dude made 44 million in his career. 

[Pakuni]

This is bonkers.  Dude made 44 million in his career.

And was married to a filthy rich pop star.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Really?  Hmm.  You said

I didn't realize "lack of interest" and "didn't have interest" were so different.  Though I am "dumb" and "illogical" so I guess the nuance escapes me. 

The Cubs were obviously interested in Arrieta.  There were multiple credible reports from different credible sources throughout the offseason that the Cubs made a couple (at least) different offers to Arrieta. 

And while your reason was "who would know him better", which I thought (and still do, and clearly it carries no water) was ridiculous.

Actually I said
I stand by that.  In every way.  Boras was crowing about a 7/200 deal for Arrieta which is out of line.  That has scared teams away.  Just like his 300 predictions for JDM have kept most teams away and no one has even approached that number (by reports anyways). 

Teams have their own ways of evaluating players.  To think that they see the Cubs not going hard after a guy, so they don't is incredibly arrogant.  You really think other teams make their decisions based off who the Cubs like and dislike?

Boras is the probably the primary reason Arrieta is not on the Cubs and probably the reason for his relatively quiet market.  Not some insider information the Cubs have because they "know him".

Yes, lack of interest and having no interest are extremely different things.  Just like I didn't call you dumb or illogical, either.  Nuance actually isn't a strong suit of yours.   

There are a combination of factors why Arrieta is still out there.  Boras is absolutely one of them, likely the biggest.  To think other front offices paid attention to the Cubs and Arrieta this offseason is not remotely arrogant. 

By the way, please don't say Bob Nightengale is a reputable source.  He's horrendous. 

[MerrittsMustache]

My guess is that the Cubs had an offer on the table to Arrieta for 4, maybe even 3 years. Arrieta/Boras wanted no part of that and while the Cubs liked Darvish better, they didn't like him at 6 or 7 for $150M as much as they liked Arrieta at 4/$90M. Once they were close on Darvish, they reached back out to Arrieta 1) to make completely sure that he wanted to pass on their (shorter, cheaper) offer and 2) as a courtesy to a WS Champ to let him know they were moving on if he wasn't going to agree to their offer.

I'd find it hard to believe that the Cubs offered Arrieta 6/$126M. If they truly wanted him that bad, they'd likely have reached an extension prior to free agency.

[buckchuckler]

I'd find it hard to believe that the Cubs offered Arrieta 6/$126M. If they truly wanted him that bad, they'd likely have reached an extension prior to free agency.

Boras clients almost never do this.  I seem to remember once, but can't remember who it was. 

[🏀]

And was married to a filthy rich pop star.

Who was killed in an extremely odd and explosive plane crash. Interesting story.

[buckchuckler]

  Just like I didn't call you dumb or illogical, either. 

To whom was this referring?

Sure.  It would help if his logic was, well, logical.

Either way, fair enough you didn't directly call me those things.  I just wanted to show how you instantly react any time someone questions your precious Cubs.  Always right to insults.  You always play the same hand. 

There are a combination of factors why Arrieta is still out there.  Boras is absolutely one of them, likely the biggest.  To think other front offices paid attention to the Cubs and Arrieta this offseason is not remotely arrogant. 

Mike Girsch and John Mozeliak sitting in a room, with Girsch saying " let's sign Arrieta" and Mo saying, "hmmm Theo has a lack of interest.   The Cubs are the brightest franchise out there. Must be a bad idea.  I say no."

At least you acknowledge Boras has a role to play.  That is something I guess.

By the way, the verb "lack" means, according to dictionary.com, "to be without".
 

[buckchuckler]

Who was killed in an extremely odd and explosive plane crash. Interesting story.

Wow, really?  I had never heard that.  That is well... wow. 

Coming to Netflix next year I guess.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Boras clients almost never do this.  I seem to remember once, but can't remember who it was.

Weaver and Strasburg both signed extensions before reaching free agency.  There were probably a few more as well. 

[Dr. Blackheart]

If Darvish clearly was the team's preference, why make the last-ditch effort to five Arrieta the same deal?
Seems more likely Arrieta was the slight preference, but they wanted to get one of them locked down with that contract and took the guy who blinked first.

Exactly.  Yu was dragging his feet with the Dodgers and Theo applied some pressure.  It was indeed a courtesy to Jake, but more of one to Boras who has some other players in his portfolio Theo has an interest in (Harper, Bryant).  Also, it is worth it for Theo the drive up the market for the Cubs' division rivals for Jake, forcing them to overpay.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

To whom was this referring?

Either way, fair enough you didn't directly call me those things.  I just wanted to show how you instantly react any time someone questions your precious Cubs.  Always right to insults.  You always play the same hand. 

Mike Girsch and John Mozeliak sitting in a room, with Girsch saying " let's sign Arrieta" and Mo saying, "hmmm Theo has a lack of interest.   The Cubs are the brightest franchise out there. Must be a bad idea.  I say no."

At least you acknowledge Boras has a role to play.  That is something I guess.

By the way, the verb "lack" means, according to dictionary.com, "to be without".
 

If I think an argument or viewpoint of yours is dumb or illogical that doesn't necessarily mean I think you are dumb or illogical.  That's you making an assumption.  You're rarely open to other points of view once your mind is made up.     

You're also incorrect regarding my precious Cubs.  I've never said the front office is infallible.  I like this Darvish deal.  It could also be a total disaster like Heyward has turned out to be thus far.  They've made their share of mistakes but they've clearly done much more good than bad.   

Your Cards example is a gross simplification and you know that is not at all what I'm saying. 

You didn't post the entire definition of "lack":  Lack means to be without or to have less than a desirable quantity of something.  The second part is key.  I could have said lack of strong interest but that was implied, same as it is in this definition.  The Cubs were not aggressive whatsoever in trying to have Arrieta return.  To say other front offices didn't take note of that is lazy and wrong. 

[buckchuckler]

Weaver and Strasburg both signed extensions before reaching free agency.  There were probably a few more as well.

Strasburg.  That's who I was thinking.  Didn't know about Weaver, still that is 2 examples in the last 20 years.  There are probably more, but it certainly isn't his MO.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Strasburg.  That's who I was thinking.  Didn't know about Weaver, still that is 2 examples in the last 20 years.  There are probably more, but it certainly isn't his MO.

Nope, those are definitely outliers. 

[buckchuckler]

If I think an argument or viewpoint of yours is dumb or illogical that doesn't necessarily mean I think you are dumb or illogical.  That's you making an assumption.  You're rarely open to other points of view once your mind is made up.     

You're also incorrect regarding my precious Cubs.  I've never said the front office is infallible.  I like this Darvish deal.  It could also be a total disaster like Heyward has turned out to be thus far.  They've made their share of mistakes but they've clearly done much more good than bad.   

Your Cards example is a gross simplification and you know that is not at all what I'm saying. 

You didn't post the entire definition of "lack":  Lack means to be without or to have less than a desirable quantity of something.  The second part is key.  I could have said lack of strong interest but that was implied, same as it is in this definition.  The Cubs were not aggressive whatsoever in trying to have Arrieta return.  To say other front offices didn't take note of that is lazy and wrong.

Ok.  Seems at least open to interpretation though.

Of course the Cards example is ridiculous.  To think that how the Cubs treat Arrieta has a significant impact on what guys like Mozeliak, Sabean, Rizzo, Cashman or Stearns think of him seems like a stretch.

I just don't get this whole thing.  I have never heard this story ever in another free agency.  But now that the Cubs aren't going to bring back the guy that has had likely their best stretch of seasons, well since I've been alive, the story is all of a sudden, the Cubs are too smart to bring him back, they know something!  But that thought process has never applied to anyone else.  To me, that seems like more arrogance. 

But whatever the case, the Cubs have addressed their biggest need and replaced Arrieta with a similar pitcher (at least in the regular season).  They seem poised to be the favorite in the Central, and one of the favorites in the NL. 

Will the Brewers get one of the other pitchers?  Odorizzi and Archer seem to be targets, though Archer seems very unlikely.  Cobb or Lynn? 

What are the Cards doing?  It seems like an open secret that they have money to spend and holes to fill with free agents that look like fits (Holland, Moose, Hosmer).  Will they do anything?  Camps starting today!