MLB 2018 Season

[TallTitan34]

Asking a question makes you want to throw up? Lol. Weak stomach?

Starters might pitch double the innings but they also might impact about 1/3 of the games a releiver might impact. Relievers in today’s game are just as important as starters, if not more.

Hahahahahahahaha.

Hahahaha.

That must be why you see all those relievers with +$100 million deals. 

[wadesworld]

Hahahahahahahaha.

Hahahaha.

That must be why you see all those relievers with +$100 million deals.

Hahahahahahahaha.

Hahahaha.

Dude.

Wow. That is super cute.

Yu Darvish and his $100M contract and all his value to the Cubs. You’re right. Only took him until the end of May to get his first win as a Cubbie.

[TallTitan34]

Wow. That is super cute.

Yu Darvish and his $100M contract and all his value to the Cubs. You’re right. Only took him until the end of May to get his first win as a Cubbie.

I love how you make this about the Cubs.

Listen Hader is a damn stud. I’d love to have him. But to say relievers are as important as starters is just wrong.

[wadesworld]

I love how you make this about the Cubs.

Listen Hader is a damn stud. I’d love to have him. But to say relievers are as important as starters is just wrong.

I make it about whoever I want. Using player contracts to prove the value of a player to his team is hysterical.

If you’re talking about baseball 5 years ago, sure. Fortunately for a lot of teams GMs aren’t stuck in that line of thinking.

[TallTitan34]

I make it about whoever I want. Using player contracts to prove the value of a player to his team is hysterical.

If you’re talking about baseball 5 years ago, sure. Fortunately for a lot of teams GMs aren’t stuck in that line of thinking.

Sure teams have created super bullpens the past few years, but that still doesn’t mean the starters aren’t more important.

[TallTitan34]

Name the best reliever in the game. Anyone you want.  I won’t even argue with your choice.

[TallTitan34]

I’ll save you some time.

Good choice picking (Best Reliever)!  He is awesome isn’t he?

As good as (Best Reliever) has been this year, he’s not more important than Scherzer, Cole, Severino, Verlander, Kluber, Sale, deGrom, ...

[wadesworld]

I’ll save you some time.

Good choice picking (Best Reliever)!  He is awesome isn’t he?

As good as (Best Reliever) has been this year, he’s not more important than Scherzer, Cole, Severino, Verlander, Kluber, Sale, deGrom, ...

So you found 2 in the NL that are arguably more important than Hader is? So then you agree with me that Hader should be on the short list for Cy Young so far? I guess you could’ve actually saved me time by simply saying that...

Lol.

[buckchuckler]

IP matter. Kershaw threw 175 innings last season.  He was better than Scherzer in most other categories.  Scherzer won.  There is alot of value in providing more innings for your team so that lesser guys don't have to soak them up.

[🏀]

Wow. That is super cute.

Yu Darvish and his $100M contract and all his value to the Cubs. You’re right. Only took him until the end of May to get his first win as a Cubbie.

Never stop being you.

[wadesworld]

Never stop being you.

Again, good post. Looking forward to TallTitan telling me the same!

[wadesworld]

IP matter. Kershaw threw 175 innings last season.  He was better than Scherzer in most other categories.  Scherzer won.  There is alot of value in providing more innings for your team so that lesser guys don't have to soak them up.

Sure they matter. But they also mattered when guys like Eric Gagne won the Cy Young Award.

Like I said, Hader’s neither a closer nor a starter so he won’t be in the discussion. But if he continues to dominate like this all season Hader will have had way more of an impact on the Brewers’ season than Gagne did on the Dodgers’.

[jsglow]

Sometimes you guys argue about the dumbest stuff.

Anyway, despite yesterday's loss in very similar fashion to the one loss in Arizona, it was a really outstanding 10 game trip for the Crew.  Honestly, they need to get things going a little better at home and tonight certainly won't be an easy lift.

[TallTitan34]

So you found 2 in the NL that are arguably more important than Hader is? So then you agree with me that Hader should be on the short list for Cy Young so far? I guess you could’ve actually saved me time by simply saying that...

Lol.

Two?  I named seven and could have kept going. Do you know what a ... means? I guess I’ll keep going.

Kershaw, Cueto, Corbin, Williams, Martinez, Syndergaard, ...

Do you think Hader (who you say is the best reliever in baseball) is more important than any of these players?  You would rather have Hader than any of these players on the Brewers?

[TallTitan34]

Again, good post. Looking forward to TallTitan telling me the same!

Please stop being you.

[CTWarrior]

He's won 2 MVPs and a ROY, made the ASG every full year since he's been up, put up consistently absurd numbers, but he doesn't move the needle.  Most casual sports fans probably wouldn't recognize him on the street, his endorsements are basically nil.  Part of this is because the Angels have been trash, only making the playoffs once in his career and getting promptly swept, but also because he really has no personality and charisma off the field.

I think it mostly because they haven't won.  Nobody showed less personality than Derek Jeter, whose entire career was spent spouting standard baseball clichés (though he did date an impressive string of famous beauties), and wasn't near the player Trout is.  But his teams were in the World Series every year when he first started out and in the playoffs almost every year of his career.  Couple that with Trout playing most of his games after half the country is in bed, and you get a less well known guy.

[wadesworld]

Two?  I named seven and could have kept going. Do you know what a ... means? I guess I’ll keep going.

Kershaw, Cueto, Corbin, Williams, Martinez, Syndergaard, ...

Do you think Hader (who you say is the best reliever in baseball) is more important than any of these players?  You would rather have Hader than any of these players on the Brewers?

All 7 of those guys were NL pitchers? Weird. Sorry could’ve sworn only 2 of them were, my bad!

http://www.espn.com/mlb/features/cyyoung

ESPN’s Cy Young predictor has Josh Hader 5th in the NL at the moment. I’m sure Cubs fans don’t consider 5th as “on the short list” but it certainly is. This really doesn’t have to be as complicated as you guys want to make it.

Please stop being you.

Oh wow you came up with your own wicked burn. Sick!

[SaveOD238]

http://www.espn.com/mlb/features/cyyoung

ESPN’s Cy Young predictor has Josh Hader 5th in the NL at the moment. I’m sure Cubs fans don’t consider 5th as “on the short list” but it certainly is. This really doesn’t have to be as complicated as you guys want to make it.

And Jeremy Jeffress is 6th.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

All 7 of those guys were NL pitchers? Weird. Sorry could’ve sworn only 2 of them were, my bad!

http://www.espn.com/mlb/features/cyyoung

ESPN’s Cy Young predictor has Josh Hader 5th in the NL at the moment. I’m sure Cubs fans don’t consider 5th as “on the short list” but it certainly is. This really doesn’t have to be as complicated as you guys want to make it.

Oh wow you came up with your own wicked burn. Sick!

Relievers are not more important than starters. You were wrong. Just stop.

[Its DJOver]

In the regular season your best pitcher should be the one that throws the most innings.  You want your best player to play as much as possible, kinda straightforward. However, in the post-season, if your best pitcher is a starter, then they are getting at most 2 starts in a 5 game series and 3 starts in a 7 games series.  Total number of appearances is more important than starts.  I would take a dominant reliever than can give 4 appearances and 2 ip per for a total of 8 innings over a starter who can get 2 starts and a total of 12 innings (assuming qs both times)(also assuming series goes 5 games).  There's a reason that dominant starters often get put in the bullpen on short rest in the postseason.  Short answer: Starters and ip are more important in the regular season, appearances are more important in the post season.

[wadesworld]

Relievers are not more important than starters. You were wrong. Just stop.

Go check out who has the best bullpen ERAs and compare that to the MLB standings.

Or look at a team like the Brewers.  Are the Brewers winning games because they're lighting up the scoreboard night in and night out?  Nope.  Are they winning games because Jhoulys Chacin, Brent Suter, Brandon Woodruff, Freddy Peralta, and Junior Garra are dominating opposing lineups?  Nope.  It's because they have the best bullpen in baseball and all you need is 4-5 innings of mediocre starting pitching and the bullpen will throw 4-5 innings of scoreless baseball from there on out.

5 years ago you're right.  Relievers/bullpens were not as important as starters.  Thankfully David Stearns understands where baseball has moved to.

[🏀]

Josh Hader, more important than Max, deGrom, Syndergaard, Nola, Corbin.... noted.

[DegenerateDish]

Jace Fry for AL Cy Young.

[buckchuckler]

Go check out who has the best bullpen ERAs and compare that to the MLB standings.

Or look at a team like the Brewers.  Are the Brewers winning games because they're lighting up the scoreboard night in and night out?  Nope.  Are they winning games because Jhoulys Chacin, Brent Suter, Brandon Woodruff, Freddy Peralta, and Junior Garra are dominating opposing lineups?  Nope.  It's because they have the best bullpen in baseball and all you need is 4-5 innings of mediocre starting pitching and the bullpen will throw 4-5 innings of scoreless baseball from there on out.

5 years ago you're right.  Relievers/bullpens were not as important as starters.  Thankfully David Stearns understands where baseball has moved to.

Who?

But really, no one is saying that relievers aren't important.  Clearly they are.  Mostly due to starters becoming less adept at going deep into games. 

Your example of Gagne winning doesn't prove anything I said (and it is just my opinion, not any sweeping declaration) that relievers shouldn't win the Cy Young.  They do.  They have.  I think it is ridiculous.  This would be like giving a utility IF the award based on a great BA and OPS.  Yeah the ratios are there, but he hasn't done as much work to earn it. 

With utility players, like relievers this is ignoring that they are often times in games when the match-ups are more advantageous for them.  It is ignoring the fact they don't have to work through the same level of fatigue.  It is ignoring that if there is a day when they don't have their stuff, they won't have to try to face 25 batters anyways.  It is ignoring that it is more difficult to get the same hitters out the 2nd, 3rd and 4th time you face a hitter than it is the first time.  It is ignoring that starters have to face guys with strategies other than, use their best stuff every pitch.  It is ignoring that starters will face a team's best hitters 3 or so times per game, where a reliever may never face them.  It ignores that starters have to pitch in different situations that call for different approaches ( what I mean is that Hader for example has been in 2 games where his team was behind, and starters have to face being ahead, behind and tied.)

Relievers are important.  And if you have a mediocre staff, they can even the playing field against teams that have better starters.  But that doesn't make it them more valuable.  Each time the manager goes to a different reliever it is a roll of the dice on whether or not that guy has it that day.  It is better to have that ace type pitcher to get you into the 8th inning and not have to hope 4 different guys are on their stuff, because relievers, also tend to be more mercurial than starters for whatever reason.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

In the regular season your best pitcher should be the one that throws the most innings.  You want your best player to play as much as possible, kinda straightforward. However, in the post-season, if your best pitcher is a starter, then they are getting at most 2 starts in a 5 game series and 3 starts in a 7 games series.  Total number of appearances is more important than starts.  I would take a dominant reliever than can give 4 appearances and 2 ip per for a total of 8 innings over a starter who can get 2 starts and a total of 12 innings (assuming qs both times)(also assuming series goes 5 games).  There's a reason that dominant starters often get put in the bullpen on short rest in the postseason.  Short answer: Starters and ip are more important in the regular season, appearances are more important in the post season.

No doubt the bullpen takes on a heightened importance in the postseason.  You can certainly shorten the game with a dominant pen and they can pitch more often due to the scheduled off-days (See Brandon Morrow last year with LA). 

However, saying you'd rather have a Josh Hader or an Andrew Miller in the postseason vs.a Justin Verlander.  Sorry - but that's nuts.