MLB 2018 Season

[Jockey]

Opinions, please?

Yesterday, trailing 7-0 in the 9th inning, the Orioles catcher bunted for a base hit with 1 out in the 9th. The Twins were in a shift at the time.

After the game, several Twins players whined about how it was unethical to bunt in that situation. I am wondering why.

Why is it OK for the Twins to shift their defense to try to stop a base hit, but it is wrong for an opposing hitter to try to beat the shift? And, with nobody on base, there is only one job for a hitter - get on base. There is no other reason to even walk up to the plate if he is not trying to get on base.

If the Twins are going to whine over something like this, why aren't they advocating to cancel the 9th inning completely in a 7-0 game? Is that any different than whining that the opposing player is trying to get on base.


On another topic, has any manager in history ever done a worse job in his first couple games than Gabe Kapler?

[🏀]

Being in a shift is the exact opposite of waving the white flag, bunt away.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Opinions, please?

Yesterday, trailing 7-0 in the 9th inning, the Orioles catcher bunted for a base hit with 1 out in the 9th. The Twins were in a shift at the time.

After the game, several Twins players whined about how it was unethical to bunt in that situation. I am wondering why.

Why is it OK for the Twins to shift their defense to try to stop a base hit, but it is wrong for an opposing hitter to try to beat the shift? And, with nobody on base, there is only one job for a hitter - get on base. There is no other reason to even walk up to the plate if he is not trying to get on base.

If the Twins are going to whine over something like this, why aren't they advocating to cancel the 9th inning completely in a 7-0 game? Is that any different than whining that the opposing player is trying to get on base.


On another topic, has any manager in history ever done a worse job in his first couple games than Gabe Kapler?

Smart play by the catcher.  All of these shifts are "cute" but I agree, encourages the hitter to counter what the D is giving him.

[GGGG]

Opinions, please?

Yesterday, trailing 7-0 in the 9th inning, the Orioles catcher bunted for a base hit with 1 out in the 9th. The Twins were in a shift at the time.

After the game, several Twins players whined about how it was unethical to bunt in that situation. I am wondering why.

Why is it OK for the Twins to shift their defense to try to stop a base hit, but it is wrong for an opposing hitter to try to beat the shift? And, with nobody on base, there is only one job for a hitter - get on base. There is no other reason to even walk up to the plate if he is not trying to get on base.

If the Twins are going to whine over something like this, why aren't they advocating to cancel the 9th inning completely in a 7-0 game? Is that any different than whining that the opposing player is trying to get on base.


On another topic, has any manager in history ever done a worse job in his first couple games than Gabe Kapler?

"Unwritten rules" are stupid.

But this isn't really an "unwritten rule."

So it's even dumber.

[buckchuckler]

Opinions, please?

Yesterday, trailing 7-0 in the 9th inning, the Orioles catcher bunted for a base hit with 1 out in the 9th. The Twins were in a shift at the time.

After the game, several Twins players whined about how it was unethical to bunt in that situation. I am wondering why.

Why is it OK for the Twins to shift their defense to try to stop a base hit, but it is wrong for an opposing hitter to try to beat the shift? And, with nobody on base, there is only one job for a hitter - get on base. There is no other reason to even walk up to the plate if he is not trying to get on base.

If the Twins are going to whine over something like this, why aren't they advocating to cancel the 9th inning completely in a 7-0 game? Is that any different than whining that the opposing player is trying to get on base.


On another topic, has any manager in history ever done a worse job in his first couple games than Gabe Kapler?

Yeah the Twinsbare being silly.  Shifting,  especially against not too tier power hitters, begs to be bunted against.  If you are going to have an exploitable weakness if your defense, you shouldn't be surprised if it is exploited.

And Kapler has been embarrassing.  I think he is over thinking it.

[tower912]

Smart play by the hitter.  Embarrassing whining by the Twins.

[jsglow]

Opinions, please?

Yesterday, trailing 7-0 in the 9th inning, the Orioles catcher bunted for a base hit with 1 out in the 9th. The Twins were in a shift at the time.

After the game, several Twins players whined about how it was unethical to bunt in that situation. I am wondering why.

Why is it OK for the Twins to shift their defense to try to stop a base hit, but it is wrong for an opposing hitter to try to beat the shift? And, with nobody on base, there is only one job for a hitter - get on base. There is no other reason to even walk up to the plate if he is not trying to get on base.

If the Twins are going to whine over something like this, why aren't they advocating to cancel the 9th inning completely in a 7-0 game? Is that any different than whining that the opposing player is trying to get on base.


On another topic, has any manager in history ever done a worse job in his first couple games than Gabe Kapler?

Good for the Orioles catcher. 

I think too many in baseball overthink stuff today.  Twins should have played it straight up.  And the pitcher should be throwing mostly fastballs over the plate.  If you're not doing that expect the opposition to maximize every opportunity too.

[MU82]

"Unwritten rules" are stupid.

But this isn't really an "unwritten rule."

So it's even dumber.

This is my exact stance.

Also ... I remember Kent Hrbek bunting for a couple of doubles against the shift. I can't remember if it was the 9th inning of a 7-0 game, nor would it matter to me if it was.

Hell, I'd do this if the opposing pitcher had a perfect game against me with a 7-0 lead in the 9th, and I wouldn't feel the least bit guilty about doing it.

[jsglow]

Which leads me to a basketball reference.  When you're 5 possessions behind with 30 seconds to go stop the freakin' fouling!  And we don't need the refs to agonize over a possession decision for 5 minutes!  It's a 2 hour drive home for me. 

I will give a coach one pass on that so he can get the walk-ons in.

[#UnleashSean]

There is no unwritten rule about not bunting in the 9th. Unless the pitcher is throwing a no hitter or a perfect game. That'll get ya plunked.

[Jockey]

Got pretty much the replies I expected.

And I am proud to start a topic where Scoopers aren't arguing

And, shouldn't Chance Sisco be a bounty hunter in Star Wars rather than a ball player? He and Jett Bandy would make a good team.

[MUBurrow]

The point is getting to the playoffs, even if it's the wild card game.  Anything can happen.  Lynn cost $12 million for one year, which is a drop in the bucket.  The prospect capital to acquire Odorizzi was next to nothing.  And I don't mean it had to be one of those two guys, either.  Alex Cobb could have also been a nice pick up, although I was surprised he got 4/60 in that market.
...
I agree Lynn and Odorizzi are flawed pitchers and they could both stink (although if they were in the NL I assume they'd be solid).  Even if winning the division is unlikely the Brewers are still competing with the DBacks, Rockies, Cards, and Mets for the two WC spots.  One win could easily be the difference between a wild card or nothing. 

Your counterpoint to my "just the wild card" is right. Its tough to see the Brewers being favorites vs the Cubs at any time during their competitive window short of big injuries to the Cubs core, so that isn't a very good reason for them to not make moves. But I think that also highlights the importance that all of the Brewers significant expenditures are high impact. If they had signed Lynn to his Twins deal, he would represent about 12% of their payroll this year, and he would be their third highest player (currently that's Chacin).  They currently sit at $89M. At their five-year peak starting with 2011 payroll was $94M, $116M, $88M, $113M, $100M.

I swear I want this to stay a baseball-centric conversation and not turn into the whole "Brewers fans are the best because their team is poorer than the Cubs" thing.  But rumor had it that Attanasio operated the team at a loss for some of those high payroll years. No idea if that's actually true, but it probably hints that his payroll ceiling is around $120M. As they sit today, that means that Cobb's 57/4 is a no go - Cobb + Lynn = $116M and is nowhere near a world series team. That's why I'm fine with them waiting on pitching - would've been nice this year, but if they get into the wrong deal for multiple years of $10M or more, it absolutely destroys their financial flexibility. (That being said, Odorizzi for very little prospect capital would have been fine.)

[Pakuni]

Dozier's explanation today makes him look even sillier (and who thought that was possible):

While even some Twins fans wondered why the star second baseman and several of his teammates would make an issue of Sisco's bunt, noting the Twins could have removed the shift if they felt their lead was safe, Dozier said critics are missing the point.
The Orioles didn't hold Ryan LaMarre at first base after his two-out pinch single in the top of the ninth.
"When they didn't hold our runner on, they conceded to the fact they didn't want us to steal, so we didn't steal," Dozier said. "We could have very easily stolen and put up more runs, so therefore in return you don't bunt. That's what everybody is missing in this whole thing."

https://www.twincities.com/2018/04/02/brian-dozier-explains-what-critics-are-missing-in-flap-over-chance-sisco-bunt/

[drewm88]

"Unwritten rules" are stupid.

But this isn't really an "unwritten rule."

So it's even dumber.

Agreed.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Here is another unwritten rule:  "Don't whine about him bunting, but pluck him in the head the next time you face him."

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Dozier's explanation today makes him look even sillier (and who thought that was possible):

While even some Twins fans wondered why the star second baseman and several of his teammates would make an issue of Sisco's bunt, noting the Twins could have removed the shift if they felt their lead was safe, Dozier said critics are missing the point.
The Orioles didn't hold Ryan LaMarre at first base after his two-out pinch single in the top of the ninth.
"When they didn't hold our runner on, they conceded to the fact they didn't want us to steal, so we didn't steal," Dozier said. "We could have very easily stolen and put up more runs, so therefore in return you don't bunt. That's what everybody is missing in this whole thing."

https://www.twincities.com/2018/04/02/brian-dozier-explains-what-critics-are-missing-in-flap-over-chance-sisco-bunt/

Playing behind the runner with two outs is not uncommon.  The Twins really need to stop whining.

[Jockey]

Here is another unwritten rule:  "Don't whine about him bunting, but pluck him in the head the next time you face him."

Respond to a good play with a dirty play?

Um.....  OK.

[Pakuni]

Here is another unwritten rule:  "Don't whine about him bunting, but pluck him in the head the next time you face him."

Dumb and dangerous.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Respond to a good play with a dirty play?

Um.....  OK.

MLB "unwritten rule" repeated five times a week.  Don't "shoot" the messenger...

[Vander Blue Man Group]

The Cubs sure look like ass so far.

[Jockey]

MLB "unwritten rule" repeated five times a week.  Don't "shoot" the messenger...

My apologies. I thought you were making a suggestion rather than pointing out the way things used to be done.

Luckily, that unwritten rule isn't "enforced" nearly as much anymore.

[Dr. Blackheart]

My apologies. I thought you were making a suggestion rather than pointing out the way things used to be done.

Luckily, that unwritten rule isn't "enforced" nearly as much anymore.

No worries.  Our points are the same:  Baseball's "unwritten rules" are all stupid. Fortunately, they legislated the "in the area" unwritten rule on double plays at 2nd base. 

[wadesworld]

The Cubs sure look like ass so far.

Missing Arietta's roids.

[MU82]

There is no unwritten rule about not bunting in the 9th. Unless the pitcher is throwing a no hitter or a perfect game. That'll get ya plunked.

And that is stupid and wrong.

One of these days, some manager's pitcher is gonna kill or maim an opponent while enforcing an unwritten rule.

Beyond that, I personally can remember 2 games in which a team rallied from 8+ run deficits in the 9th inning. You need baserunners to do it.

Hell, I remember Bochte getting all bent out of shape when somebody bunted against one of his San Diego pitchers who had a no-hitter when it was 2-0. I mean, the guy gets on and brings the tying run to the plate! "You don't bunt against a no-hitter!" Bochte whined. No, you try to win the effen game. So stupid.

[#UnleashSean]

Missing Arietta's roids.

You sir need to buy me a new bottle.