Bitcoin

[Cheeks]

Glad to know that you have a nice stash of canned good if things really get bad.

Lol.  By the way, Lenny thinks you and I are same...in fact 100% certain...so this is a great conversation I am having with myself apparently.

And if things get really bad here in So Cal, it’s over anyway.  I’ll live on my oranges, lemons and cumquats growing in backyard and fire one warning shot at anyone thinking about hopping my wall....the next one won’t be a warning shot.   

[Benny B]

Lol.  By the way, Lenny thinks you and I are same...in fact 100% certain...so this is a great conversation I am having with myself apparently.

And if things get really bad here in So Cal, it’s over anyway.  I’ll live on my oranges, lemons and cumquats growing in backyard and fire one warning shot at anyone thinking about hopping my wall....the next one won’t be a warning shot.   

Wishful thinking.  If the shiite really hits the fan, anywhere in California will be next to the worst possible place to be. 

[Cheeks]

Wishful thinking.  If the shiite really hits the fan, anywhere in California will be next to the worst possible place to be.

Maybe we are saying the same thing, but what I am saying is I wouldn’t want to be here if it does hit.  Already too many people, add that chaos and it will be biblical here.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Lol.  By the way, Lenny thinks you and I are same...in fact 100% certain...so this is a great conversation I am having with myself apparently.

And if things get really bad here in So Cal, it’s over anyway.  I’ll live on my oranges, lemons and cumquats growing in backyard and fire one warning shot at anyone thinking about hopping my wall....the next one won’t be a warning shot.   

At least you wont get scurvy, aina.

[Hards Alumni]

80% of the population doesn't have electricity or running water but they are leveraging cryptocurrencies? How are they acquiring them? I'm doubting they are mining for it.

You're joking right?  Bitcoins aren't mined locally.  You can buy them on your mobile phone.

[Hards Alumni]

and Gold has other intrinsic "value" beyond that of a currency. Almost all electronics depend on gold in some capacity, especially electro-mechanical devices. It has value because it can be used to create something that also has value. Gold's volatility is tied to speculation AND it's scarcity within the demand of practical applications. Cryptos are volatile only because of speculation.

I'm guessing you lack a basic understanding of Bitcoin.

[Hards Alumni]

I guess it is a currency in the most basic of terms.  But it isn't a currency in the sense that it is the official currency of any nation-state.

That's the idea.  The currency isn't backed by a centralized bank, it is backed by its users.

Sure seem to be a lot of people talking about crypto that don't understand it at all.

[Hards Alumni]

The overwhelming majority of Venezuela's "transactions" are being done via barter or US Dollars.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/venezuela/article227261249.html

So, a lot of people converted their money into cryptos, and then convert them back into Bolivars or USD at the point of purchase.  Most vendors only accept Bolivars because that is what the government requires.

The reasons people hold their money in cryptos and then convert back in forth is because the Bolivar has undergone hyperinflation.  As an example, you don't want your 100 Bolivars turning into the value of 80 Bolivars overnight... so you convert it into something that is accessible, reliable, and stores value.  And that's crypto for now.

[Coleman]

So, a lot of people converted their money into cryptos, and then convert them back into Bolivars or USD at the point of purchase.  Most vendors only accept Bolivars because that is what the government requires.

The reasons people hold their money in cryptos and then convert back in forth is because the Bolivar has undergone hyperinflation.  As an example, you don't want your 100 Bolivars turning into the value of 80 Bolivars overnight... so you convert it into something that is accessible, reliable, and stores value.  And that's crypto for now.

I doubt that the majority of transactions are happening that way. If I'm wrong, show me evidence that a majority of Venezuelans are using crypto. That is what you claimed.

[Jockey]

This.  Gold, silver, platinum, copper are all stores of value, and all have industrial applications.  BTC may be the former, but it certainly isn't the latter.

I'm curious as to whether there's a BTC mining rig out there that doesn't contain one of the above.  Otherwise, buying BTC because you want a store of value is like buying a gallon of milk because you want a plastic jug.

Another difference is that basically every person on earth would like to have gold. The vast majority of people on earth have never heard of cryptocurrency.

[#UnleashSean]

I doubt that the majority of transactions are happening that way. If I'm wrong, show me evidence that a majority of Venezuelans are using crypto. That is what you claimed.

As someone who plays runescape. Venezuelans definitely use crypto all the time.

[Coleman]

1/3 of Venezuelans lack internet access.

[Coleman]

There's also this: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-03-27/blackout-leaves-91-of-venezuela-without-an-internet-connection

[Hards Alumni]

There's also this: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-03-27/blackout-leaves-91-of-venezuela-without-an-internet-connection

This literally happened today.

[Hards Alumni]

I doubt that the majority of transactions are happening that way. If I'm wrong, show me evidence that a majority of Venezuelans are using crypto. That is what you claimed.

Sorry, I later said, "A lot".

I don't have a source to refute your nitpick.

Any grammar you'd like to correct for me?

[mu03eng]

I'm guessing you lack a basic understanding of Bitcoin.

Quite confident I know more about bitcoin at both a technical and fiscal level than 99% of the population. Keep guessing

[Hards Alumni]

Quite confident I know more about bitcoin at both a technical and fiscal level than 99% of the population. Keep guessing

While I understand that gold has intrinsic value, that wasn't really the case for the majority of its use in human history.  Additionally, about 10% of gold that is newly produced is used in industrial applications. Most gold is used for jewelry or value storage (investments).  My point is, that Bitcoin is similar because it is a store of value.  We obviously cannot return to the gold standard, and fiat money has it's own set of problems.  Bitcoin and cryptos solves these problems and remove banks from the equation.  Bitcoin is easily transferable internationally, has fraud protection, no identity theft problems, and is anonymous.  You control your money.  Is it perfect?  Absolutely not, but it is still young.  The main problem is people dont bother to learn anything about it, and call it the next tulip bubble.  And it's clearly not.  Of course it will be volatile... and more so than gold.  If the US were to experience hyperinflation, what would you do with your money?

[Benny B]

While I understand that gold has intrinsic value, that wasn't really the case for the majority of its use in human history.  Additionally, about 10% of gold that is newly produced is used in industrial applications. Most gold is used for jewelry or value storage (investments).  My point is, that Bitcoin is similar because it is a store of value.  We obviously cannot return to the gold standard, and fiat money has it's own set of problems.  Bitcoin and cryptos solves these problems and remove banks from the equation.  Bitcoin is easily transferable internationally, has fraud protection, no identity theft problems, and is anonymous.  You control your money.  Is it perfect?  Absolutely not, but it is still young.  The main problem is people dont bother to learn anything about it, and call it the next tulip bubble.  And it's clearly not.  Of course it will be volatile... and more so than gold.  If the US were to experience hyperinflation, what would you do with your money?

Typically, when someone stumbles across an amazing investment, they usually keep their mouths shut and take advantage of the naysayers’ ignorance.

However, there’s no shortage of those going to great lengths trying to convince others that BTC is such a great investment.  Why is that?  If BTC is the smart money, why are all these people “sharing the wealth”???




Although, to answer your question on hyperinflation, the answer is “take advantage of the historically high savings rates.”

[Hards Alumni]

Typically, when someone stumbles across an amazing investment, they usually keep their mouths shut and take advantage of the naysayers’ ignorance.

However, there’s no shortage of those going to great lengths trying to convince others that BTC is such a great investment.  Why is that?  If BTC is the smart money, why are all these people “sharing the wealth”???




Although, to answer your question on hyperinflation, the answer is “take advantage of the historically high savings rates.”

Good luck with all of that.

[mu03eng]

While I understand that gold has intrinsic value, that wasn't really the case for the majority of its use in human history.  Additionally, about 10% of gold that is newly produced is used in industrial applications. Most gold is used for jewelry or value storage (investments).  My point is, that Bitcoin is similar because it is a store of value.  We obviously cannot return to the gold standard, and fiat money has it's own set of problems.  Bitcoin and cryptos solves these problems and remove banks from the equation.  Bitcoin is easily transferable internationally, has fraud protection, no identity theft problems, and is anonymous.  You control your money.  Is it perfect?  Absolutely not, but it is still young.  The main problem is people dont bother to learn anything about it, and call it the next tulip bubble.  And it's clearly not.  Of course it will be volatile... and more so than gold.  If the US were to experience hyperinflation, what would you do with your money?

Bitcoin and its crypto brethren are only as safe as the technology that enables it (Blockchain) and while Blockchain is an amazing technology and in turn makes BTC the most secure currency on the planet it has a shelf life. Quantum computing will obliterate the value of blockchain, and while it might not be right around the corner it's not far off. Further, and as a Modern Whig I'm not happy about it, do not underestimate the ability of governments to regulate and suppress cryptos....they have a vested interest in the success of fiat currencies of course. I do agree that removing banks from the equation removes cost from the model that in turn frees up capital for more productive purposes, but there would need to be a near titanic shift in consumer behavior to leverage that benefit.

There is a great book out there, Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind (I get the scholarship is debated but some of the concepts are quite sound), that posits human success is largely enabled on our ability to agree to a shared mythology. Essentially entire structures (religion, currency, governments, etc) are built upon an agreed to mythology but that mythology can be altered as society evolves or technology advances. We moved from barter to metals as currency to currency backed by metals to fiat currency w/o backing because the mythology changed. Peoples "faith" in government stability and longevity increased, etc. Cryptos rely on the mythology of security, anonymity, and portability all of which is tied to the technology component. Bottom line, shifting mythology on cryptos can/will be much more dynamic and/or catastrophic than will be the slow change of fiat currencies and the like. It's a good investment/storage of value now, but I also take a look at the long game.

As to your last statement, let me see if I understand this, the US is experiencing hyperinflation(the US dollar is the de facto global currency) and you believe cryptos will somehow be immune to this inflation? What magic elixir makes a crypto currency unimpacted by the currency behavior models?

[Coleman]

While I understand that gold has intrinsic value, that wasn't really the case for the majority of its use in human history.  Additionally, about 10% of gold that is newly produced is used in industrial applications. Most gold is used for jewelry or value storage (investments).  My point is, that Bitcoin is similar because it is a store of value.  We obviously cannot return to the gold standard, and fiat money has it's own set of problems.  Bitcoin and cryptos solves these problems and remove banks from the equation.  Bitcoin is easily transferable internationally, has fraud protection, no identity theft problems, and is anonymous.  You control your money.  Is it perfect?  Absolutely not, but it is still young.  The main problem is people dont bother to learn anything about it, and call it the next tulip bubble.  And it's clearly not.  Of course it will be volatile... and more so than gold.  If the US were to experience hyperinflation, what would you do with your money?

Here's the rub that I have not heard anyone address adequately...

There's only one gold: gold. The supply of gold is limited by what is in the earth's crust. Sure silver/platinum are also precious metals (with extensive industrial uses, btw) but there is a finite quantity of precious metals in the earth's crust. If it becomes too expensive, mining operations increase, increasing supply and driving prices back down. If it becomes cheap, mining operations cease, increasing scarcity and driving prices back up. The market keeps the value (relatively) stable.

There are dozens of cryptos: bitcoin, bitcoin cash, etherium, ripple, litecoin, etc.  literally new ones are popping up everyday. Most crucially, there is no limit to the number of cryptocurrencies. Long Island Iced Tea created its own cryptocurrency.  The price swings in cryptos are wild speculative fluctuations, not simple corrections to market pressures.

I would be more convinced a given cryptocurrency was a decent store of value if there was some assurance that it was actually the definitive cryptocurrency that will have a relatively stable valuation, not one of an infinite number.

[Coleman]

Typically, when someone stumbles across an amazing investment, they usually keep their mouths shut and take advantage of the naysayers’ ignorance.

However, there’s no shortage of those going to great lengths trying to convince others that BTC is such a great investment.  Why is that?  If BTC is the smart money, why are all these people “sharing the wealth”???

Pump and dump

[Hards Alumni]

Here's the rub that I have not heard anyone address adequately...

There's only one gold: gold. The supply of gold is limited by what is in the earth's crust. Sure silver/platinum are also precious metals (with extensive industrial uses, btw) but there is a finite quantity of precious metals in the earth's crust. If it becomes too expensive, mining operations increase, increasing supply and driving prices back down. If it becomes cheap, mining operations cease, increasing scarcity and driving prices back up. The market keeps the value (relatively) stable.

There are dozens of cryptos: bitcoin, bitcoin cash, etherium, ripple, litecoin, etc.  literally new ones are popping up everyday. Most crucially, there is no limit to the number of cryptocurrencies. Long Island Iced Tea created its own cryptocurrency.  The price swings in cryptos are wild speculative fluctuations, not simple corrections to market pressures.

I would be more convinced a given cryptocurrency was a decent store of value if there was some assurance that it was actually the definitive cryptocurrency that will have a relatively stable valuation, not one of an infinite number.

I'll return to what I said.  You dont seem to know much about crypto.  Bitcoin has a finite number of coins.  21 million.  Never more.  Not all crypto is equal.  Probably a good idea to read about them before drawing such a conclusion.

[Hards Alumni]

Bitcoin and its crypto brethren are only as safe as the technology that enables it (Blockchain) and while Blockchain is an amazing technology and in turn makes BTC the most secure currency on the planet it has a shelf life. Quantum computing will obliterate the value of blockchain, and while it might not be right around the corner it's not far off. Further, and as a Modern Whig I'm not happy about it, do not underestimate the ability of governments to regulate and suppress cryptos....they have a vested interest in the success of fiat currencies of course. I do agree that removing banks from the equation removes cost from the model that in turn frees up capital for more productive purposes, but there would need to be a near titanic shift in consumer behavior to leverage that benefit.

There is a great book out there, Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind (I get the scholarship is debated but some of the concepts are quite sound), that posits human success is largely enabled on our ability to agree to a shared mythology. Essentially entire structures (religion, currency, governments, etc) are built upon an agreed to mythology but that mythology can be altered as society evolves or technology advances. We moved from barter to metals as currency to currency backed by metals to fiat currency w/o backing because the mythology changed. Peoples "faith" in government stability and longevity increased, etc. Cryptos rely on the mythology of security, anonymity, and portability all of which is tied to the technology component. Bottom line, shifting mythology on cryptos can/will be much more dynamic and/or catastrophic than will be the slow change of fiat currencies and the like. It's a good investment/storage of value now, but I also take a look at the long game.

As to your last statement, let me see if I understand this, the US is experiencing hyperinflation(the US dollar is the de facto global currency) and you believe cryptos will somehow be immune to this inflation? What magic elixir makes a crypto currency unimpacted by the currency behavior models?

I don't disagree with your points on quantum computing, and that of course will be a game changer for basically our entire society. 

[forgetful]

Bitcoin and its crypto brethren are only as safe as the technology that enables it (Blockchain) and while Blockchain is an amazing technology and in turn makes BTC the most secure currency on the planet it has a shelf life. Quantum computing will obliterate the value of blockchain, and while it might not be right around the corner it's not far off. Further, and as a Modern Whig I'm not happy about it, do not underestimate the ability of governments to regulate and suppress cryptos....they have a vested interest in the success of fiat currencies of course. I do agree that removing banks from the equation removes cost from the model that in turn frees up capital for more productive purposes, but there would need to be a near titanic shift in consumer behavior to leverage that benefit.

There is a great book out there, Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind (I get the scholarship is debated but some of the concepts are quite sound), that posits human success is largely enabled on our ability to agree to a shared mythology. Essentially entire structures (religion, currency, governments, etc) are built upon an agreed to mythology but that mythology can be altered as society evolves or technology advances. We moved from barter to metals as currency to currency backed by metals to fiat currency w/o backing because the mythology changed. Peoples "faith" in government stability and longevity increased, etc. Cryptos rely on the mythology of security, anonymity, and portability all of which is tied to the technology component. Bottom line, shifting mythology on cryptos can/will be much more dynamic and/or catastrophic than will be the slow change of fiat currencies and the like. It's a good investment/storage of value now, but I also take a look at the long game.

As to your last statement, let me see if I understand this, the US is experiencing hyperinflation(the US dollar is the de facto global currency) and you believe cryptos will somehow be immune to this inflation? What magic elixir makes a crypto currency unimpacted by the currency behavior models?

The effect of quantum computing on the value of blockchain technology is overestimated.