Marquette to raise tuition to $41,290

[warriorchick]

In 1965, the average household income was just above $6k.  So your college education cost about double the average household income.  Today, the average household income is $60k.  Double the average household income would be $120k. 

Total cost at MU right now for 4 years is just north of $200k, but you have to remember that the average student gets a 30% haircut off the actual book rate.  So the average student is getting out with a total cost of ~$145k.  Not that dissimilar compared to average household income as your family paid in 1965.

I am not sure you are comparing apples to apples here.

That 30% "haircut" is off of tuition only.  The $200K number includes room and board. 

So the number you should be comparing to the $12K is $200K-(40*.3*4) or $152K, or more than 2.5 times the average household income.

Also keep in mind that back in the mid-late 60's, there was typically only one wage earner per household, whereas nowadays it is more likely than not to be two.

In any case, I think Chili has the most appropriate comparison.  It used to be possible for a student to pay their own way through school by working hard in the summer and part time during the school year.  I don't know a single student who is paying for their own Marquette education without taking on a crap ton of debt.  And Marquette makes it even harder by limiting the amount of hours you can work in an on-campus job to 20 per week.

[forgetful]

I am not sure you are comparing apples to apples here.

That 30% "haircut" is off of tuition only.  The $200K number includes room and board. 

So the number you should be comparing to the $12K is $200K-(40*.3*4) or $152K, or more than 2.5 times the average household income.

Also keep in mind that back in the mid-late 60's, there was typically only one wage earner per household, whereas nowadays it is more likely than not to be two.

In any case, I think Chili has the most appropriate comparison.  It used to be possible for a student to pay their own way through school by working hard in the summer and part time during the school year.  I don't know a single student who is paying for their own Marquette education without taking on a crap ton of debt.  And Marquette makes it even harder by limiting the amount of hours you can work in an on-campus job to 20 per week.

Very good point.  I misapplied the "haircut".  My main point was that it isn't as bad as people think, because most don't pay book rate. 

I wasn't trying to say it's super affordable.  It is not, but it isn't as bad as people think.  I do like Chili's comparison also, but the thing to remember is that is partially because there were good jobs for people that didn't have a college education back then, now, the summer jobs are pretty much McD's or Walmart...and you are ineligible for OT.

[MUBurrow]

And Marquette makes it even harder by limiting the amount of hours you can work in an on-campus job to 20 per week.

I never knew this was a thing. (Clearly never had an on-campus job.)

I can't say I blame MU - in addition to all of the arguments about devoting time to school, I would imagine they just don't want the headache of having students lodge complaints that their MU job supervisors treated them in a way that didn't allow them to succeed academically.

[warriorchick]

Very good point.  I misapplied the "haircut".  My main point was that it isn't as bad as people think, because most don't pay book rate. 

I wasn't trying to say it's super affordable.  It is not, but it isn't as bad as people think.  I do like Chili's comparison also, but the thing to remember is that is partially because there were good jobs for people that didn't have a college education back then, now, the summer jobs are pretty much McD's or Walmart...and you are ineligible for OT.

Minimum wage was $3.35 an hour, and most of us had minimum wage jobs, including those of us on work study.  I felt lucky that I got a summer job as a Shoney's waitress making $2.11 plus tips, which worked out closer to $5 an hour.  Don't delude yourself thinking everyone who worked their way through Marquette in the olden days had some sort of great-paying position.

[warriorchick]

I never knew this was a thing. (Clearly never had an on-campus job.)

I can't say I blame MU - in addition to all of the arguments about devoting time to school, I would imagine they just don't want the headache of having students lodge complaints that their MU job supervisors treated them in a way that didn't allow them to succeed academically.

I think the fair compromise would have been to make exceptions for kids who proved they were maintaining an acceptable GPA and demonstrated financial need.

And my experience with both my kids and myself was that nearly all supervisors were very accommodating when it came to your academic needs.

[MU82]

Minimum wage was $3.35 an hour, and most of us had minimum wage jobs, including those of us on work study.  I felt lucky that I got a summer job as a Shoney's waitress making $2.11 plus tips, which worked out closer to $5 an hour.  Don't delude yourself thinking everyone who worked their way through Marquette in the olden days had some sort of great-paying position.

So what you're saying is that I was the exception making big bucks as a male stripper?

[Jay Bee]

around $15k in 1996.  IRC, business and engineering were slightly higher than the other schools.

I also recall that tuition was locked in at the freshman rate for the 4 years.  is that right?

I don't recall a locked rate... but, yes re: biz & engineering being higher. It upset me at first, but it quickly made sense since liberal arts majors are pursuing.. liberal arts degrees.

[warriorchick]

So what you're saying is that I was the exception making big bucks as a male stripper?

Were you one of the guys my Cobeen floormates and I saw at Park Ave that one Monday night in 1981?

[Jay Bee]

Were you one of the guys my Cobeen floormates and I saw at Park Ave that one Monday night in 1981?

Pretty sure he was at La Cage

[Dr. Blackheart]

Were you one of the guys my Cobeen floormates and I saw at Park Ave that one Monday night in 1981?

Were Marquette Painters rehabbing it?

[forgetful]

I think the fair compromise would have been to make exceptions for kids who proved they were maintaining an acceptable GPA and demonstrated financial need.

And my experience with both my kids and myself was that nearly all supervisors were very accommodating when it came to your academic needs.

This is not an MU thing.  It is a law.  Students are not allowed to work on campus for more than 20 hours a week.  I'm pretty certain it is associated with federal grants, but many states also have their own law against student workers exceeding 20 hours per week.  They are welcome to work as many hours as they wish off campus.   

Regarding making the minimum wage and paying for school.  I do not know the tuition when you attended school, and am going to guess around $12k per year.  At the $3.25 an hour you would have to work 3692 hours a year or roughly 70 hours a week to pay for school. 

And just for the record, I worked my way through college also so that between scholarships and working 30-40 hours a week I didn't have any student loans or any debt when I graduated college. 

[warriorchick]

This is not an MU thing.  It is a law.  Students are not allowed to work on campus for more than 20 hours a week.  I'm pretty certain it is associated with federal grants, but many states also have their own law against student workers exceeding 20 hours per week.  They are welcome to work as many hours as they wish off campus.   

Regarding making the minimum wage and paying for school.  I do not know the tuition when you attended school, and am going to guess around $12k per year.  At the $3.25 an hour you would have to work 3692 hours a year or roughly 70 hours a week to pay for school. 

And just for the record, I worked my way through college also so that between scholarships and working 30-40 hours a week I didn't have any student loans or any debt when I graduated college.

I was not aware of the law, and apparently the students in question did not, either.

Tuition, room and board was about $8500 my senior year. I got a little bit of financial aid, and borrowed a relatively small amount. If you don't think going to Marquette (or any other school)   is more expensive now than it was in the past, why is it that no one ever talked about  crippling student loan debt back then?

[jficke13]

This is not an MU thing.  It is a law.  Students are not allowed to work on campus for more than 20 hours a week.  I'm pretty certain it is associated with federal grants, but many states also have their own law against student workers exceeding 20 hours per week.  They are welcome to work as many hours as they wish off campus.   

Regarding making the minimum wage and paying for school.  I do not know the tuition when you attended school, and am going to guess around $12k per year.  At the $3.25 an hour you would have to work 3692 hours a year or roughly 70 hours a week to pay for school. 

And just for the record, I worked my way through college also so that between scholarships and working 30-40 hours a week I didn't have any student loans or any debt when I graduated college.

And now, at $7.25/hr you'd have to work 5695 hours/year (100+ hrs/wk) to pay for MU's tuition only. Seems to suggest that if evaluating the price of school as compared to minimum wage that it's significantly more expensive now than it was then, no?

[jsglow]

This is not an MU thing.  It is a law.  Students are not allowed to work on campus for more than 20 hours a week.  I'm pretty certain it is associated with federal grants, but many states also have their own law against student workers exceeding 20 hours per week.  They are welcome to work as many hours as they wish off campus.   

Regarding making the minimum wage and paying for school.  I do not know the tuition when you attended school, and am going to guess around $12k per year.  At the $3.25 an hour you would have to work 3692 hours a year or roughly 70 hours a week to pay for school. 

And just for the record, I worked my way through college also so that between scholarships and working 30-40 hours a week I didn't have any student loans or any debt when I graduated college.

That's interesting.  I wonder if that's somewhat new?  It was about 4 years ago when MU capped on campus hours.  Our kids knew LIMO drivers who were impacted by that.  Some of the older ones and supervisors worked essentially every night to afford school each day while maintaining solid grades.  One has just finished up medical school (or might still be in).  Give me a hard working kid any day.

[mu_hilltopper]

Sure seems like tuition increases have outpaced EVERYTHING, wages, post-graduation wages, health care, housing, you name it.

[forgetful]

My main point was that it isn't as bad as people think, because most don't pay book rate. 

I wasn't trying to say it's super affordable.  It is not, but it isn't as bad as people think.

I just want to reiterate these statements, as I never said college tuition wasn't rising or was still affordable. 

Hilltopper's graphs though illustrate an important feature.  The biggest problem is wages for students/young college graduates are not increasing. 

[warriorchick]

I just want to reiterate these statements, as I never said college tuition wasn't rising or was still affordable. 

Hilltopper's graphs though illustrate an important feature.  The biggest problem is wages for students/young college graduates are not increasing.

It's bad. It's really bad.  When I went to Marquette, I had lots of friends whose parents were blue collar workers.  I don't ever remember them worrying too much about how they were going to pay for college. That isn't the case any more.

And if you added a line to Hilltopper's  graphs that shows wage trends in general, you would see that the college graduate line tracks much closer to that than the college tuition costs.

But I have said everything I need to say at this point.  Feel free to have the last word.

[Tugg Speedman]

Sure seems like tuition increases have outpaced EVERYTHING, wages, post-graduation wages, health care, housing, you name it.

The charts above use the "sticker price."  But, as noted on the previous page, almost no one actually pays the sticker price.

In 1965, the average household income was just above $6k.  So your college education cost about double the average household income.  Today, the average household income is $60k.  Double the average household income would be $120k. 

Total cost at MU right now for 4 years is just north of $200k, but you have to remember that the average student gets a 30% haircut off the actual book rate.  So the average student is getting out with a total cost of ~$145k.  Not that dis

[Eldon]

It's kind of like Kohl's.  Has anyone ever paid full price for something at Kohl's?

[CTWarrior]

Working road construction in the summer with lots of OT and working 20+ hours a week as a student mgr for Saga did the trick for me.

I assume you and I graduated same year.  $2500 annual student loan plus summer job at factory and caddying on the weekends along with working as a referee for every intramural sport imaginable covered my tab, with no help from the folks, who raised seven kids on an electrician's salary.  Came out of school with only debt an easily affordable $100 monthly student loan payment upon graduation.  No way could a kid in that situation afford that anymore without major debt upon graduation.

[jficke13]

It's kind of like Kohl's.  Has anyone ever paid full price for something at Kohl's?

Unless the "discounts" increase at a rate commensurate with the rate that the "sticker price" is increasing, then the net effect is that the cost is increasing.

[PorkysButthole]

We received a letter from Dr. Lovell this week that tuition will increase from $39,330 to $41.290 for next year. We expected an increase.  This isn't a complaint, more informational. 

We are please with the education our child is receiving.  If there was a complain, it would be for the school to sync up fund raising with these announcements.  Two weeks ago we received a letter also from Dr. Lovell to donate $2,500 a year.  We chose to donate something less than that, but in hindsight receiving the tuition increase letter in conjunction with that one could be better planned.

The request for an extra $2500K over and above tuition seems extremely brazen to me unless they're selectively targeting only those parents they know can afford it based on the financials virtually everyone has to submit these days or past donation history.  If a family has more than one child in college simultaneously (at MU or elsewhere) the request is even more brazen.  Again that statement assumes this is a mass mailer to all parents which it might not be.  I resent the fact that previous generations have to subsidize the cost of higher education for the current one and the constant barrage of mail and occasional phone solicitations is annoying.  I understand this is hardly unique to Marquette and that the system is broken, there's no doubt about that and Dr. Lovell acknowleged as much in his recent podcast.  All that said, compared to most private schools on the east coast, Marquette is a relative bargain difficult though that may be to believe.   It may even be less than out of state tuition at places like UW Madison, U of Michigan, and Indiana, all of whom have a pretty substantial population of students from the greater NYC metro area where I live and who's parents are gladly willing to pay the freight.

[warriorchick]

The request for an extra $2500K over and above tuition seems extremely Brazen to me unless they're selectively targeting only those parents they know can afford it based on the financials virtually everyone has to submit these days or past donation history.  If a family has more than one child in college simultaneously (at MU or elsewhere) the request is even more Brazen.  Again that statement assumes this is a mass mailer to all parents which it might not be.  I resent the fact that previous generations have to subsidize the cost of higher education for the current one and the constant barrage of mail and occasional phone solicitations is annoying.  I understand this is hardly unique to Marquette and that the system is broken, there's no doubt about that and Dr. Lovell acknowleged as much in his recent podcast.  All that said, compared to most private schools on the east coast, Marquette is a relative bargain difficult though that may be to believe.   It may even be less than out of state tuition at places like UW Madison, U of Michigan, and Indiana, all of whom have a pretty substantial population of students from the greater NYC metro area where I live and who's parents are gladly willing to pay the freight.

You might be surprised who is willing to donate. It's not always the folks with the most impressive-looking balance sheet.   

If you don't want to donate, all you have to do is ignore the letter or say to the kid on the phone, "I'm going to have to take a pass this time." 

What's the big deal?  If a parent doesn't know that tuition doesn't pay 100% of the costs of sending his kid to Marquette, that's about as good a time to find out as any.

Another thing:  I have heard more than one parent say, "My kid got a scholarship, and I feel fortunate that he did not need it for financial reasons. By donating, I am giving some of it back so that it can go to a kid who wouldn't be able to attend Marquette otherwise".  What's wrong with that?

[PorkysButthole]

You might be surprised who is willing to donate. It's not always the folks with the most impressive-looking balance sheet.   

If you don't want to donate, all you have to do is ignore the letter or say to the kid on the phone, "I'm going to have to take a pass this time." 

What's the big deal?  If a parent doesn't know that tuition doesn't pay 100% of the costs of sending his kid to Marquette, that's about as good a time to find out as any.

Another thing:  I have heard more than one parent say, "My kid got a scholarship, and I feel fortunate that he did not need it for financial reasons. By donating, I am giving some of it back so that it can go to a kid who wouldn't be able to attend Marquette otherwise".  What's wrong with that?

Nothing!  That’s fanstastic if they do, but I would guess very few parents of existing students are actually in a position to contribute much more beyond tuition.  It’s not so much that they’re asking them to contribute a little extra but rather the amount they’re asking for.  $2500 seems very high to me and if their efforts to recruit more first generation college students is as successful as they say, fewer and fewer familes Have anything close to that.   I certainly don’t despite being a professional with a pretty high income.  About a year or so ago I received a call from a student soliciting donations and they asked if I would be willing to contribute $500 to which I replied “not if I want to pay my mortgage”.  I thought it was an extremely aggressive ask but then again I don’t work in philanthropy so what do I know?  I think I gave $50 bucks.  Maybe there are tons of people out there with a spare five hundo to give to their alma-mater without thinking but I’m definitely not one of them.  It would be great to be in that position though and wish I could.  I know our giving rate is abysmally low so if a lot more people contributed less money that would presumably help.  Why not ask everyone for $10 bucks.  Even most recent alums could spare that.

[rocket surgeon]

It's kind of like Kohl's.  Has anyone ever paid full price for something at Kohl's?

i'm pretty sure i paid msrp for myself and still paying for my 2 utes-full sticker price as well.  unless i missed the "yellow and blue light special", were their some coupons or something?  i got the in state rate, but that was because...i was and still am a state resident