collapse

'23-'24 SOTG Tally


2023-24 Season SoG Tally
Kolek11
Ighodaro6
Jones, K.6
Mitchell2
Jones, S.1
Joplin1

'22-23
'21-22 * '20-21 * '19-20
'18-19 * '17-18 * '16-17
'15-16 * '14-15 * '13-14
'12-13 * '11-12 * '10-11

Big East Standings

Recent Posts

Server Upgrade - This is the new server by rocky_warrior
[Today at 06:42:59 PM]


Big East 2024 -25 Results by Uncle Rico
[Today at 06:13:16 PM]


Owens out Monday by TAMU, Knower of Ball
[Today at 03:23:08 PM]


Shaka Preseason Availability by Tyler COLEk
[Today at 03:14:12 PM]


Marquette Picked #3 in Big East Conference Preview by Jay Bee
[Today at 02:04:27 PM]


Get to know Ben Steele by Hidden User
[Today at 12:14:10 PM]


Deleted by TallTitan34
[Today at 09:31:48 AM]

Please Register - It's FREE!

The absolute only thing required for this FREE registration is a valid e-mail address. We keep all your information confidential and will NEVER give or sell it to anyone else.
Login to get rid of this box (and ads) , or register NOW!

Next up: B&G Tip-Off Luncheon

Marquette
Marquette

B&G Luncheon

Date/Time: Oct 31, 2024 11:30am
TV: NA
Schedule for 2023-24
27-10

Excellent article on state of Georgetown

Started by Eye, November 23, 2017, 10:17:53 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Oldgym

Outstanding piece.  The discussion of the institution's slow reaction to JTIII's decline said surprisingly little about his father's legacy and the name that appears on their athletic center, but other than that, great in-depth reading.

warriorchick

Quote from: Oldgym on November 23, 2017, 12:07:29 PM
Outstanding piece.  The discussion of the institution's slow reaction to JTIII's decline said surprisingly little about his father's legacy and the name that appears on their athletic center, but other than that, great in-depth reading.

You could have substituted DePaul, Ray Meyer, and Joey Meyer for Georgetown, John Thompson, and JTIII and it would still be a spot-on article.

Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it.
Have some patience, FFS.

Herman Cain

Quote from: Eye on November 23, 2017, 10:17:53 AM
http://www.hoyasaxa.com/sports/archives/110917.htm
The best part of the article is when you scroll to the bottom it lists out all the teams of the Big East and they have us listed as Marquette Warriors :)
"It was a Great Day until it wasn't"
    ——Rory McIlroy on Final Round at Pinehurst

Galway Eagle

Is there another program that has a more over inflated view of their program than Georgetown?

"One would have been reluctant to named any school other than Georgetown University as the standard bearer of the new, yet old Big East conference heading into March of that season."

How about a team that made 10/12 NCAA appearances, and shared that big east title that year? That had a 2 sweet 16s, an elite 8 and final 4

Georgetown made 9/13 NCAA appearances during the 2001-2013 stretch. 2 sweet 16s and a final 4

Villanova made 8/9 during a 2005-2013 stretch. A sweet 16 elite 8 and final 4

But in Georgetown's eyes they were head and shoulders above the rest of the league going into the new BE. Can't stand their fans like that one guy who predicted a 3 seed on here and then disappeared in shame at the end of the season.
Maigh Eo for Sam

Dr. Blackheart

Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on November 23, 2017, 02:18:05 PM
Is there another program that has a more over inflated view of their program than Georgetown?

"One would have been reluctant to named any school other than Georgetown University as the standard bearer of the new, yet old Big East conference heading into March of that season."

How about a team that made 10/12 NCAA appearances, and shared that big east title that year? That had a 2 sweet 16s, an elite 8 and final 4

Georgetown made 9/13 NCAA appearances during the 2001-2013 stretch. 2 sweet 16s and a final 4

Villanova made 8/9 during a 2005-2013 stretch. A sweet 16 elite 8 and final 4

But in Georgetown's eyes they were head and shoulders above the rest of the league going into the new BE. Can't stand their fans like that one guy who predicted a 3 seed on here and then disappeared in shame at the end of the season.

Exactly. Even in the formation of the new conference, Georgetown thought they were the elite drivers of the realignment when it was in in fact Nova and MU. They rested on their laurels while Nova adapted and cleaned their clock.

Wright went from recruiting one and dones to recruiting four year players. He had learned his humility from the past. Not sure Georgetown still has if they don't mention their ego as one of the major problems that have held them back. The fall from hubris can be a powerful learning lesson.

That said, Ewing has impressed me so far in the way he has coached up their talent with his system. All things are relative until they play a decent team, though.

skianth16

Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on November 23, 2017, 02:18:05 PM
Is there another program that has a more over inflated view of their program than Georgetown?

"One would have been reluctant to named any school other than Georgetown University as the standard bearer of the new, yet old Big East conference heading into March of that season."

I think that's a fair way to look at things, though. When I think of "old" Big East, I think Syracuse, UConn, and Georgetown. They've been around forever and were a big part of building the basketball brand that the conference became known for. I don't know that I'd consider them to be too full of themselves.

warriorchick

Quote from: skianth16 on November 23, 2017, 02:34:58 PM
I think that's a fair way to look at things, though. When I think of "old" Big East, I think Syracuse, UConn, and Georgetown. They've been around forever and were a big part of building the basketball brand that the conference became known for. I don't know that I'd consider them to be too full of themselves.


Georgetown had the arrogance assume it would be the de facto head of the New Big East and would have the final say on every major decision, including the addition of new members.

Say what you want about Larry Williams, but he was instrumental in putting Georgetown in its place in the beginning.
Have some patience, FFS.

jsglow

Here's another thing to understand about the current conference.  Two of the new programs owe their invitation primarily to Marquette. No ifs ands or buts.  And they know it.

Dr. Blackheart

Quote from: warriorchick on November 23, 2017, 02:41:04 PM

Georgetown had the arrogance assume it would be the de facto head of the New Big East and would have the final say on every major decision, including the addition of new members.

Say what you want about Larry Williams, but he was instrumental in putting Georgetown in its place in the beginning.

One of Hunt's better articles from the history files. Unsung on MUs side was Mike Broeker as well.

http://archive.jsonline.com/sports/goldeneagles/bigeast14-d7815om-183439151.html/

jsglow

Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on November 23, 2017, 02:58:28 PM
One of Hunt's better articles from the history files. Unsung on MUs side was Mike Broeker as well.

http://archive.jsonline.com/sports/goldeneagles/bigeast14-d7815om-183439151.html/

Yep.  Mike worked hard on it.

I've told you guys the private jet flight story back and forth from Lexington to NYC, yes?  It was very cool to be real time in the loop as all of that was going down.

Dr. Blackheart

Quote from: skianth16 on November 23, 2017, 02:34:58 PM
I think that's a fair way to look at things, though. When I think of "old" Big East, I think Syracuse, UConn, and Georgetown. They've been around forever and were a big part of building the basketball brand that the conference became known for. I don't know that I'd consider them to be too full of themselves.

Other than two of those three were ones who did and wanted to rip it apart. I will take Dave Gavitt and Providence as the brand builder.

Galway Eagle

Quote from: skianth16 on November 23, 2017, 02:34:58 PM
I think that's a fair way to look at things, though. When I think of "old" Big East, I think Syracuse, UConn, and Georgetown. They've been around forever and were a big part of building the basketball brand that the conference became known for. I don't know that I'd consider them to be too full of themselves.

Being the standard barrer is different than being a school people associate with the conference. We seemed to be head and shoulders above everyone going into that first season while Georgetown seemed to be falling and Nova had majorly fallen a peg or two.

Fast forward 9 months and Vander leaves, McKay transfers, Duane breaks his foot then we're talking about an entirely different situation but from that March 22nd date that they keep referring to we were supposed to be the standard barrer.
Maigh Eo for Sam

Eye

Here's my response to the person who sent me the link FWIW:

Fantastic article. MU also tied for its only BE title the same day as that Gtown-cuse game by winning at St. John's on a Vander Blue shot.  MU and Gtown very similar from '06 to '14. MU made 8 straight tourney's '06 to '13, 3 straight Sweet 16s '11 to '13, lost in regional final to cuse in '13 in the old Big East. Then Brent pulled a Brent at the 1st sign of any turbulence. Wojo seems to have things headed in the right direction and has a big recruiting class coming next year. For the new league to peak, top 4 need to be SJU, Gtown, nova and MU (St. John's was my team in the 80s Big East, DePaul is a lost cause until further notice, I'd still like to see UConn give up the pipe dream of FB and rejoin the league, a SJU - Gtown and MU - DePaul weeknight DH with all of them in the top 10 is my big picture dream someday). Most of the league very happy with they are now. Will have a much better gauge on where SJU is 2 1/2 days from now. DePaul at least finally got a new gym. Surprised with how well the new league has gone. No brainer to go to the BKB only league. Did the half BKB, half small-school FB league from '96 to '05. They aren't any good at FB either and do nothing but drag the BKB down. Back to Gtown - one thing always thought from a distance was that I think JT3 tried to change his style of play in '10 to faster after the tourney results in '08 and '09. Out of his comfort zone, but thought it was the way to improve late-season results. And Ohio happened, and he went back to the way he was more comfortable with, which led to getting back to the tourney, but seemed to have its limits. Then FGCU happened, which was the beginning of the end. Going to post a link to this on both MU sites. Would be surprised if it doesn't generate a lot of discussion. Thanks for the link, hope you have a good Thanksgiving and Go Big East.
GO WARRIORS!

GoldenWarrior11

Fantastic article and incredible insight.  Thanks for sharing. 

This current version of the Big East has been dominated by Villanova, but it was able to reaffirm itself as a top-power basketball conference thanks to the backbone of the league in Butler, Creighton and Xavier - the three new additions.  Many were skeptical about their additions, due to their "mid-major" labels when they were added from A-10 and MVC, respectively.  However, not only did they continue their basketball success, but they also helped maintain the strength of the Big East brand while Marquette, Georgetown and St. Johns were effectively rebuilding.  Seton Hall and Providence were incredibly helped by the defections, as it allowed fewer power programs to compete against, and now both have become top-25/35 programs in the country. 

With specific regards to Georgetown, spot on analysis as to how they fell hard.  I give GT a lot of credit for moving on from Thompson, as there was undoubtedly a high amount of political pressure to both keep him and move on from him.  Ewing, IMO, was a compromise selection from both factions within the school and program.  It will be interesting to see how he does for sure.

I think it will also be fascinating to see how the tenures of Mullin and Ewing play out long-term.  Both coaches arrived in rebuilding stages, but both took different approaches to scheduling.  Mullin continued to schedule tough games, even when the team was gutted, in order to sell recruits on playing big-time opponents.  Ewing, conversely, scheduled nothing but cupcakes this year - valuing winning over matchups, in order to get recruits here.  Mullin has SJ 5-0 in year three, but there has been considerable roster turnover in each season.

muwarrior69

Quote from: Eye on November 24, 2017, 07:50:58 AM
Here's my response to the person who sent me the link FWIW:

Fantastic article. MU also tied for its only BE title the same day as that Gtown-cuse game by winning at St. John's on a Vander Blue shot.  MU and Gtown very similar from '06 to '14. MU made 8 straight tourney's '06 to '13, 3 straight Sweet 16s '11 to '13, lost in regional final to cuse in '13 in the old Big East. Then Brent pulled a Brent at the 1st sign of any turbulence. Wojo seems to have things headed in the right direction and has a big recruiting class coming next year. For the new league to peak, top 4 need to be SJU, Gtown, nova and MU (St. John's was my team in the 80s Big East, DePaul is a lost cause until further notice, I'd still like to see UConn give up the pipe dream of FB and rejoin the league, a SJU - Gtown and MU - DePaul weeknight DH with all of them in the top 10 is my big picture dream someday). Most of the league very happy with they are now. Will have a much better gauge on where SJU is 2 1/2 days from now. DePaul at least finally got a new gym. Surprised with how well the new league has gone. No brainer to go to the BKB only league. Did the half BKB, half small-school FB league from '96 to '05. They aren't any good at FB either and do nothing but drag the BKB down. Back to Gtown - one thing always thought from a distance was that I think JT3 tried to change his style of play in '10 to faster after the tourney results in '08 and '09. Out of his comfort zone, but thought it was the way to improve late-season results. And Ohio happened, and he went back to the way he was more comfortable with, which led to getting back to the tourney, but seemed to have its limits. Then FGCU happened, which was the beginning of the end. Going to post a link to this on both MU sites. Would be surprised if it doesn't generate a lot of discussion. Thanks for the link, hope you have a good Thanksgiving and Go Big East.

Why? I am sure the other six schools would disagree. Sure MU, Gtown and Nova are the only schools to win a National Championship, but Xavier and Butler have had stellar success the past 10-15 years.

Silkk the Shaka

Quote from: jsglow on November 23, 2017, 02:56:01 PM
Here's another thing to understand about the current conference.  Two of the new programs owe their invitation primarily to Marquette. No ifs ands or buts.  And they know it.

Creighton & Butler?

TAMU, Knower of Ball

Quote from: Goose on January 15, 2023, 08:43:46 PM
TAMU

I do know, Newsie is right on you knowing ball.


dgies9156

Great article but a couple of thoughts:

1) The authors at Hoyasaxa ought to take a second look at Indiana these days. Indiana is kinda in the same shape as Georgetown is. Tommy is gone and their new coach is in a rebuild.

2) One of the hardest things to do in college coaching is break with tradition. We held on longer than we should have with Hank and Rick -- a  decision that sent us in a tailspin that lasted more than a decade. North Carolina never should have gone to Bill Guthridge. Ditto DePaul and the Meyer family. At some point a school has to recognize that Al, JTII, Dean and Ray are gone and go to a fresh start. That's the biggest single lesson from our failure. I suspect Duke knows it as well.

3) Something really overlooked that showed Hoyasaxa was at the top of their game is the role of assistant coaches. They figured out what most college basketball writers didn't. That there's only seven days in a week and a college coach could not do it by himself. Ewing better have hired world class coaches to assist him. Part of Wojo's rebuilding success has been Stan and certainly any other major D1 basketball coach can say the same thing. I would add that the Hillbilly knew the same thing and brought Jerry Wainwright in to help him out on the bench.

4) They also are right-on about the need for Georgetown to recruit the DC area, just like we have to win the recruiting battles for the State of Wisconsin against the red rodent. It's why DePaul has to win Chicago over -- a tough job given the number of truly shady coaches in the city -- and why Michigan State controls Michigan talent. Once you have protected your living room and front yard, you can build a second home chasing high 4 stars and 5 stars.

5) Overall, a very good assessment of Georgetown's situation. A mention of a Jesuit brother from Milwaukee would have been nice but I'm not completely sure Hoyasaxa remembers us. Whoever wrote it knows college basketball WELL!

Frenns Liquor Depot

Quote from: dgies9156 on November 24, 2017, 01:09:13 PM
North Carolina never should have gone to Bill Guthridge.

This should not have been included in your post.  The Guthridge move was perfect.  Thought of as temporary, retained the players and went to two final fours.  No one thought he was the perm option but a bridge to the next coach and it out of the way quickly.

The Doherty hire on the other hand....

rocket surgeon

  " We held on longer than we should have with Hank and Rick -- a  decision that sent us in a tailspin that lasted more than a decade."

  my opinion-

    i think rick got a raw deal.  if we would have given him a little more time?  he was a coach and a players coach.  ok, i could stand to be corrected if one were to make the argument that he 1)matured as a coach and/or 2) after MU, he coached with a chip on his shoulder or 3)milwaukee's pizza all sucked except zaffiros ;D

  as for hank-he was a great guy, knew basketball as well as anyone but lacked the "pizzazz" of al.   they just forgot to tell prospective recruits that hank was the X's and O's guy.  al did the rest

    this may have been beat up in the past, but i never tire of hearing the stories
felz Houston ate uncle boozie's hands

Galway Eagle

Quote from: rocket surgeon on November 24, 2017, 04:30:52 PM
  " We held on longer than we should have with Hank and Rick -- a  decision that sent us in a tailspin that lasted more than a decade."

  my opinion-

    i think rick got a raw deal.  if we would have given him a little more time?  he was a coach and a players coach.  ok, i could stand to be corrected if one were to make the argument that he 1)matured as a coach and/or 2) after MU, he coached with a chip on his shoulder or 3)milwaukee's pizza all sucked except zaffiros ;D

  as for hank-he was a great guy, knew basketball as well as anyone but lacked the "pizzazz" of al.   they just forgot to tell prospective recruits that hank was the X's and O's guy.  al did the rest

    this may have been beat up in the past, but i never tire of hearing the stories

Didn't rick leave us?
Maigh Eo for Sam

warriorchick

Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on November 24, 2017, 06:22:36 PM
Didn't rick leave us?

In the same way a CEO leaves to "spend more time with his family".
Have some patience, FFS.

4everwarriors

Technically, Rick left. In fact, he became the Bucks third assistant coach and made less money than being head coach at MU. The reality was he took a lot of heat and felt the temp rising. Three straight NIT appearances were not good enough along with whiffin' on Wolf and Ricky. Rick's buddy Don Nelson helped him save face before Rick either keeled over or got chit canned, ai na?
"Give 'Em Hell, Al"

Herman Cain

Quote from: 4everwarriors on November 24, 2017, 07:23:29 PM
Technically, Rick left. In fact, he became the Bucks third assistant coach and made less money than being head coach at MU. The reality was he took a lot of heat and felt the temp rising. Three straight NIT appearances were not good enough along with whiffin' on Wolf and Ricky. Rick's buddy Don Nelson helped him save face before Rick either keeled over or got chit canned, ai na?
I still think if Dwayne Johnson would have stayed eligible the Rick MU story may have had a different ending.
"It was a Great Day until it wasn't"
    ——Rory McIlroy on Final Round at Pinehurst