3 UCLA Players arrested in China

[muwarrior69]

Easy, deport them!

[MUBigDance]

2 kind of opposing thoughts. But not really.

These guys are men not boys. We're missing something of respect for people and property in our culture for young men growing up and there's an extra helping of it for some athletes ( although I do like when coaches try to get their players involved in good societal stuff like hunger task force and visiting sick...). This will be a hard lesson.

My brother lived in China for a couple years as an independent citizen. China has a lot of severe injustice built into their system. Harsh, uneven sentencing. Reform by fear ( although fear is legit sometimes). When politics or religion concerned, lack of justice pronounced. These guy will either get off after a few weeks (politics) with some quid-pro-quo from the US govt (or visit from obama) OR they will be there for a year or more. Chinese authorities also have some built in bias against African folk.

[Silkk the Shaka]

Tough situation for these young men. They need to get Trump on their side to make the deal to get out.  Otherwise they are in for a world of hurt.

LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

[🏀]

Fantastic news?  Do you want three, admittedly very dumb, college freshmen to be locked up for a minimum of three years each in a prison in a third world foreign country where they don't speak the language?  That's harsh.

Yes, they deserved to be treated as any other human that shoplifted in China.

[fjm]

Unrelated:

These kids might get 3-10 years.

Yet Chinese and Asian tourists come to America and 1) poop in public and into the gysers/pools of Yellowstone and get nothing.
2) knock over millions of year old stalagmites in caves and get nothing.

america needs to step up their foreign tourist prosecution game a bit.

[warriorchick]

Yet Chinese and Asian tourists come to America and 1) poop in public and into the gysers/pools of Yellowstone and get nothing.
2) knock over millions of year old stalagmites in caves and get nothing.

What happens to Americans who do that?

[naginiF]

Chinese authorities also have some built in bias against African folk.

UCLA has a recruiting pipeline to Africa?  I thought these were US kids

Unrelated:

These kids might get 3-10 years.

Yet Chinese and Asian tourists come to America and 1) poop in public and into the gysers/pools of Yellowstone and get nothing.
2) knock over millions of year old stalagmites in caves and get nothing.

america needs to step up their foreign tourist prosecution game a bit.

teal?

also - in before the lock

[Dawson Rental]

Really?  Now if they did the crime and the legal proceeding isn't a farce shouldn't they face an appropriate penalty as determined by local custom and law?  It's not like this is some Title IX case here that TAMU can decide.  They're not political prisoners.  They're alleged criminals.  While I can conceive that 'something' might be worked out, these clowns are in for a world of hurt.

"While I can conceive that 'something' might be worked out"

Based on you saying the above, you mostly agree with my post you quoted.  Our main difference is that I'm happy with these kids getting a scare put into them and learning a lesson while you seem to need for these young men to suffer mightily.

[Spotcheck Billy]

The 3 were released and ordered not to leave their hotel for the time being.
Probably lucky for them Trump is already there.

[fjm]

What happens to Americans who do that?

I'm not making this a race thing at all, just wish the US would step up their game with regards to outside tourists. Like turkey's governmental employees come to NYC and D.C. And beat Americans up and are not prosectured. That's crap.

As for Americans as you asked:
They are charged with 3rd degree felonies.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/31/us/utah-boulder-boy-scouts/index.html

http://heavy.com/news/2017/08/asian-thai-tourists-fairy-falls-trailhead-firehole-river-geothermal-feature-destroys-walk-on-youtube-video/

[warriorchick]

I'm not making this a race thing at all, just wish the US would step up their game with regards to outside tourists. Like turkey's governmental employees come to NYC and D.C. And beat Americans up and are not prosectured. That's crap.

As for Americans as you asked:
They are charged with 3rd degree felonies.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/31/us/utah-boulder-boy-scouts/index.html

http://heavy.com/news/2017/08/asian-thai-tourists-fairy-falls-trailhead-firehole-river-geothermal-feature-destroys-walk-on-youtube-video/

I wasn't implying you were making it a race thing.  I really wanted to know.

And my guess the Turkish thing has to do with diplomatic immunity.  I agree that a lot of that is a load of crap.

[GGGG]

The 3 were released and ordered not to leave their hotel for the time being.
Probably lucky for them Trump is already there.

I know you tealed this comment, but actually it might work out very well for them that Trump is there right now.

[B. McBannerson]

Fantastic news?  Do you want three, admittedly very dumb, college freshmen to be locked up for a minimum of three years each in a prison in a third world foreign country where they don't speak the language?  That's harsh.

China is a 3rd world country?  Under what definition?


If these guys did this in Singapore how many cane lashings would they get?  If this was in some Middle Eastern countries, they potentially could lose a digit or hand. 

[Dawson Rental]

China is not a third world country. But what is your point here? College kids shouldn't be held accountable? That not speaking the language makes it too harsh of a punishment?

If this were an 18/19yr old drop out nobody would bat an eye

You are correct that China is not a third world country, but I'll just put the following out there and let everyone decide for themselves if their prisions are comparable.  Maybe reading this you will get my point.  God, I hope you can.

   In the middle of the night the PSB took me to White Cloud District Detention Center in the city of Guangzhou, where I would spend the next 280 days. I was in shock and denial as I was processed and then taken down a long dank corridor to my cell. Opening the corridor door to cell B218 revealed an empty, moldy room the size of a racquetball court. As I was pushed inside I was full of terror. The corridor door closed and a side door to the "inner cell" opened, with native Chinese prisoners motioning me inward to the sleeping and working quarters.

            The inner cell was the same size but held 30 prisoners, all sleeping on the concrete floor. There were no blankets or pillows and the room was so crowded that most prisoners slept on their sides with arms draped over each other like embracing couples. Near the back was an older prisoner indicating he was making room for me to lie down. Dazed and confused, I crossed the cell like a cat, careful not to step on the heads, arms or bodies of other prisoners. My concussion and the long day of coercive interrogation had left me exhausted and I lay down to sleep.

            In Chinese jails, prisoners begin working on their first day of detention regardless of the circumstances. The right of having a phone call upon arrest is unheard of, and most have no contact with the outside world throughout the entire time they are incarcerated. Many are jailed for months without ever being formally charged, then released without going to trial.

            Each day at 6:30 a.m. the cell leader woke everyone by clapping his hands to begin another routine day. Thirty men lined up to brush their teeth while simultaneously using a single hole in the ground as our only toilet. After washing and using the toilet, prisoners arranged themselves in rows sitting cross-legged to chant communist slogans and recite detention regulations. Once the chanting was complete, prisoners would stand for an hour of military-style marching in place. Any who didn't enthusiastically chant or march briskly received beatings or various other types of punishment.

             Each cell was run by a gang who pushed work production through a series of rewards and punishments. While there was one leader, he surrounded himself with what we called "the lieutenants" – forming what we called "the regime." After work quotas were issued, prisoners would line the wall to assemble Christmas lights all day with two ten-minute breaks for lunch at 11:00 a.m. and 4:00 p.m. for dinner. No uniforms were issued, so most prisoners sat in their underwear. Later, in the shower, I noticed many prisoners had bedsores from long hours sitting on the concrete floor.

            Due to my mental state, shock and the dim lighting, I was unable to do even the simplest work tasks. As a foreigner and due to the language barrier, the leader gave me a little slack, but for native prisoners anything short of the 6,000-light quota per day would promptly be met with punishment.

            On my second day, our cell guard came to check on me. When any prison official visited, prisoners would squat on their heels and lock their hands behind their heads in a non-threatening position we called "the squat-n-lock." Noting my poor condition, the guard stated he would take me to the infirmary, but it was three days before he returned to our cell. Sometimes we wouldn't see a guard for 4-5 days, leaving us under the total control of the leader and his "regime."

            During the workday the regime would stroll around shouting "Kuai-dian" ("faster"). Anything from slow work production to a "wrong look" would bring a slap to the head or kick to the ribs. If slow production persisted or a prisoner back-talked, the regime would bring them to the front of the cell for a series of kicks, blows and punches.

            The most common punishment was withholding the daily ration of two hand-rolled cigarettes. If that didn't increase work production, prisoners would have their food rations cut in half. Each meal we were fed rice, turnips and a little pork fat, which tasted horrible but was enough to sustain life. A cut in food rations was devastating and I saw a few prisoners start to look skeletal.

            Much harsher punishment awaited prisoners who caused further problems or continued to fail to adjust. Along the floor of the cell were three bull rings. Prisoners who fought or rebelled were shackled and chained to the floor 24/7, from 3 days up to two weeks. When chained to the floor another prisoner would need to bring a bucket to use as a toilet. Also while chained, food and water rations were reduced, leaving some prisoners to wither near death.

            The worst punishment was reserved for the rare occasion when a prisoner disrespected a guard. Such prisoners were taken to an empty cell, chained to the floor, flogged with Christmas light cords and left for 2 to 3 days in solitary confinement without food. Usually the threat of no tobacco was enough to bring prisoners in line, and I was aware of only three floggings during the eight months I was incarcerated.

[The Lens]

Count me as one who does not think Ball (or the others) actually stole anything.

[jsglow]

"While I can conceive that 'something' might be worked out"

Based on you saying the above, you mostly agree with my post you quoted.  Our main difference is that I'm happy with these kids getting a scare put into them and learning a lesson while you seem to need for these young men to suffer mightily.

What I support is treatment comparable to any other person who commits a similar crime in that situation without regard to celebrity or foreigner status.  Moreover, we here in the U.S. don't get to decide what that punishment is.  As an example, if one commits a drug crime in Mexico one faces a pretty unpleasant prison situation.  My response is 'don't be stupid'.  Now to the extent that something represents a material human rights issue, that's a different problem.

[Chili]

Fantastic news?  Do you want three, admittedly very dumb, college freshmen to be locked up for a minimum of three years each in a prison in a third world foreign country where they don't speak the language?  That's harsh.

Last time I was in Shanghai it sure as $hit didn't seem third world. Here the lesson people need to know - not everywhere shares the same ideals that the US does. You play by their rules - not your own. If you can't pay the time, don't do the crime. And this wasn't some petty thing like chewing gum in Singapore but retail theft from LV. They're adults and should know better. Hope they like breaking rocks.

[Dawson Rental]

China is a 3rd world country?  Under what definition?


If these guys did this in Singapore how many cane lashings would they get?  If this was in some Middle Eastern countries, they potentially could lose a digit or hand.

I love your defense of harsh penalties in the Middle East under Shira Law.  I can't wait for your justification of 9/11 and other terrorist attacks on US soil as something the US has earned for our violation of their cultural norms.

[wadesworld]

What I support is treatment comparable to any other person who commits a similar crime in that situation without regard to celebrity or foreigner status.  Moreover, we here in the U.S. don't get to decide what that punishment is.  As an example, if one commits a drug crime in Mexico one faces a pretty unpleasant prison situation.  My response is 'don't be stupid'.  Now to the extent that something represents a material human rights issue, that's a different problem.

Let's be honest, celebrities (and foreigners) aren't punished the same way as "any other person who commits a similar crime" in the United States, either.

[GooooMarquette]

Maybe you're right, but I believe that the high profile nature of this matter wil lead to something far less then the minimum sentence being enforced.  It could lead to UCLA and Georgia Tech leaving without playing the game - not in protest, but in the interest of protecting the schools from liability should another player run afoul of the law.  These kids serving a regular sentence would certainly kill any future NCAA games in China, and maybe pro games, too.  There would be some international blowback over the harshness of the sentence hurting tourism, and potentially accusations of bigotry on the part of the Chinese Government.

I seriously doubt it would kill tourism or future college/NBA games...with the likely exception of UCLA.  If these kids really did violated the law, they should live with the consequences.  Future games will simply follow the money.

You have to be smart when traveling abroad.  I went to Singapore once...and no, I did NOT spit on the sidewalk.

[GGGG]

What I support is treatment comparable to any other person who commits a similar crime in that situation without regard to celebrity or foreigner status. 

So you want them to sit around for nine months before something is plead down to a misdemeanor? 

[B. McBannerson]

I love your defense of harsh penalties in the Middle East under Shira Law.  I can't wait for your justification of 9/11 and other terrorist attacks on US soil as something the US has earned for our violation of their cultural norms.

It was a defense?  How do you figure?  It was only stating what happens in other countries, show me the defense I made of those punishments.

[AS86]

I may be dating myself here, but in the '80's the POSC definition (Thanks to Dr. Farmer, RIP) of a 3rd world country was any country not in NATO or the Warsaw Pact. China was in neither, so therefore a 3rd World Country. I believe the Warsaw Pact was disolved in the early '90's.

I believe the term is outdated as China has evolved, and the term may no longer relfect the current state of world affairs.

[jsglow]

Let's be honest, celebrities (and foreigners) aren't punished the same way as "any other person who commits a similar crime" in the United States, either.

Very true.  Perhaps they should be.

[GGGG]

I seriously doubt it would kill tourism or future college/NBA games...with the likely exception of UCLA.  If these kids really did violated the law, they should live with the consequences.  Future games will simply follow the money.

You have to be smart when traveling abroad.  I went to Singapore once...and no, I did NOT spit on the sidewalk.

I love the fact that we are all about 18-20 year olds "living with the consequences" in a foreign country while we sit in a country that has the 8th Amendment firmly in place.

The U.S. should be working to free any citizen that is facing conditions that 4everCrean detailed for a crime as minor as shoplifting.