More Signs Football Has Peaked In Popularity

[GGGG]

Not to mention the games were pretty darn good yesterday too. 

Couple overtime games...couple with last minute drives to tie or win...one with a 61 yard FG to beat a team that scored 24 points in a quarter...one with an overturned TD call with less than 10 seconds to go.

All in all, the NFL was a great advertisement for itself yesterday.

[Tugg Speedman]

This doesn't fit the narrative.

This will be hard to explain for the people who complain about NFL protests and like to take credit for the drop in the league's television ratings: With more protests and demonstrations in Week 3 than any other week in NFL history, ratings were up.


The ratings dip was always overblown. The NFL destroys every other sport in television ratings. Percentages might have been down for a couple weeks, but the NFL had set such a high bar that it was a prisoner of its own success when comparing ratings to previous years.
There was also some cherry-picking involved in bloviating about the ratings decrease. Mulvihill tweeted before Sunday's games that of the seven windows for NFL football through two weeks, ratings had increased for four of them compared to 2016.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/cbs-ratings-go-week-3-nfl-ratings-whole-expected-see-increase-154216596.html

You're right it does not fit the narrative

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20814945/preliminary-tv-ratings-sunday-nfl-games-compared-last-year
http://es.pn/2jVaZxQ

But the real question is what happens going forward?  200 players, or 23% of the league, protested yesterday.  What is the fan reaction in the upcoming weeks, not yesterday.

[forgetful]

'Sunday Night Football' Ratings Down Again On Day Of Player Protests
http://deadline.com/2017/09/redskins-sunday-night-football-ratings-nfl-protests-star-trek-discovery-donald-trump-nbc-1202176141/

AMERICANS NATIONWIDE BURN NFL TICKETS, SHIRTS IN SOLIDARITY WITH TRUMP
https://www.infowars.com/americans-nationwide-burn-nfl-tickets-shirts-in-solidarity-with-trump/

-----------------

ok, maybe it is less than 5% that are this angry at the NFL.  But remember, the league wants tens of billions in broadcasting right.  5% is enough to throw their broadcasting partners into losses.  See Disney's stock.

This is damaging the product.

Here is my question for you. 

Do you think the decline is because people actually care about what happens during the National Anthem, remembering that these people are the ones who use the Anthem as the perfect time to run and take a piss before the actual game starts?

Or is it because Trump made a big deal about it and called for them to protest/boycott?  And that several blogs/social media fabricated a rule book saying that the NFL was violating their own policies to favor the protestors, while denying other teams the right to support the police?

I'd argue it is the latter.  So it isn't the NFL damaging its product, it is the president of the US damaging their product for political purposes. 

[Pakuni]

You're right it does not fit the narrative

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20814945/preliminary-tv-ratings-sunday-nfl-games-compared-last-year
http://es.pn/2jVaZxQ

But the real question is what happens going forward?  200 players, or 23% of the league, protested yesterday.  What is the fan reaction in the upcoming weeks, not yesterday.

Like you, Rovell is cherry picking from a few games and not looking at ratings for all games.

And what say you to Cuban's remarks?

[Tugg Speedman]

Here is my question for you. 

Do you think the decline is because people actually care about what happens during the National Anthem, remembering that these people are the ones who use the Anthem as the perfect time to run and take a piss before the actual game starts?

Or is it because Trump made a big deal about it and called for them to protest/boycott?  And that several blogs/social media fabricated a rule book saying that the NFL was violating their own policies to favor the protestors, while denying other teams the right to support the police?

I'd argue it is the latter.  So it isn't the NFL damaging its product, it is the president of the US damaging their product for political purposes.

The decline is due to a few things ...

The game is boring and too long,  Too many commercials, stoppage of play etc.  The league is trying to address this but it has been slow.

People are viewing it like boxing, they don't like watching people permentely impairing themselves.  So the concussion thing is impacting it.  It is also leading to kids not playing and losing interest ... future fans.

Arrogance of the game.  First it was looking the other way when NFL players committed crimes.  Now it is a general belief of disrespect for the country by kneeling.


So kneeling is not it alone, but it is part of the greater whole. 

But what makes this unique is their is a number of people like you that defend it.  You will not defend the game is boring, or that people should be fine watching a sport that phyicscally harms players.  You will not defend special treatment for players that beat up their girlfriend (Elliott in Dallas) But you will defend kneeling on some first admendment right when it is a workplace and the employer is allowed to make the rules.  Furthering this for some is the fact that many high school and college coaches are fired or reprimanded for leading players in prayers but no one can question kneeling.

[Pakuni]

But you will defend kneeling on some first admendment right when it is a workplace and the employer is allowed to make the rules.  Furthering this for some is the fact that many high school and college coaches are fired or reprimanded for leading players in prayers but no one can question kneeling.

I don't recall anyone here saying the NFL can't tell players not to kneel. I've seen arguments that it would be foolish - and apparently Roger Goodell and the owners agree - but I've not seen anyone say they can't do it.

No, "many" high school and college coaches have not been fired or reprimanded for leading players in prayer. I can think of one coach fired, and that's because he continued to do it after being told repeatedly (and correctly) by his bosses that it wasn't allowed because endorsement of a religion by a school employee. He wasn't fired for praying, he was fired for insubordination.

No one can question kneeling? Really, what world are you living in?

[mu03eng]

What are some of the risky practices NFL owners are engaging in that could lead to a sudden collapse of the league, or even a franchise?
Before you answer, keep in mind this is a business with an exceptional level of cost certainty that is directly tied to revenues thanks to its CBA, has cities and states willing to shell over hundreds of millions in taxpayer money for the sheer privilege of hosting a franchise and has guaranteed streams of massive revenues for at least the next five years 9from television)and beyond (from stadium deals, etc.).
And despite all the Chicken Littledom, it is still by far the most watched program on television, still by far the most popular sport in the country and even managed to bring in a record amount of ad revenue last year.

-Concussions/CTE (impacts viewership and workforce supply chain)
-Let's call it social image (protests, player character issues)
-Labor unrest (CBA issues around player punishment, salary cap, etc)
-Substance issues (opioid abuse, stimulant abuse, PEDs, etc)
-Aging viewership
-Short term profit seeking at the expense of long term stability
-Assumption current revenue model will survive content provider retrenching

I'm not saying that the NFL is going away any time soon. Simply that the valuations are based on some pretty wacky assumptions and there are definitely signs of a potential bubble out there.

Edit to add: I certainly think the NFL is the riskiest bet of the 3 major professional sports in the US right now.

[Tugg Speedman]

-Concussions/CTE (impacts viewership and workforce supply chain)
-Let's call it social image (protests, player character issues)
-Labor unrest (CBA issues around player punishment, salary cap, etc)
-Substance issues (opioid abuse, stimulant abuse, PEDs, etc)
-Aging viewership
-Short term profit seeking at the expense of long term stability
-Assumption current revenue model will survive content provider retrenching

I'm not saying that the NFL is going away any time soon. Simply that the valuations are based on some pretty wacky assumptions and there are definitely signs of a potential bubble out there.

Edit to add: I certainly think the NFL is the riskiest bet of the 3 major professional sports in the US right now.

The valuations are backward looking based on a teams merchandise sales and TV revenues (which are national).  If TV ratings and/or attendance continues to fall, it will affect future valuations.

[CTWarrior]

As a cranky old white man, the post play celebration after every friggin' play turns me off more way more than protesting the national anthem.  Seems like every week some defensive lineman is dancing after a sack without realizing the ball is on the ground.  Seems like every game at least one idiot takes a 15 yard penalty for a stupid celebration after scoring a touchdown.  I especially dislike the moron that celebrates a big hit when his team is down 20 and the hit came after a 10 yard gain.

It just seems that modern players are more interested in self-aggrandizement than winning the game.  I don't blame the players.  Highlights always show that crap.  It is a great way to get your name out there for endorsements, next contract, etc.

It happens in every sport.  The basketball player forcing his team to play defense short-handed while moaning to the ref.  The baseball player who jogs to first and doesn't start running hard until the ball is not caught or over the fence.  On Saturday Travis Shaw hit the game winning home run and was basically walking to first until it got over the fence.  This is with the Brewers SEASON on the line.  What would have happened if that just missed and he ended up on first or second instead of second or third?  I'll tell you what.  Nobody would have said a thing, because it is so common now people don't even notice it anymore.   

The players owe the fans and their teammates their very best effort while on the field.  I get offended when I don't get that.  Of course I'd rather they stand respectfully at attention during the national anthem, but if they choose to use that moment as a protest it doesn't bother me all that much.

[rocket surgeon]

As a cranky old white man, the post play celebration after every friggin' play turns me off more way more than protesting the national anthem.  Seems like every week some defensive lineman is dancing after a sack without realizing the ball is on the ground.  Seems like every game at least one idiot takes a 15 yard penalty for a stupid celebration after scoring a touchdown.  I especially dislike the moron that celebrates a big hit when his team is down 20 and the hit came after a 10 yard gain.

It just seems that modern players are more interested in self-aggrandizement than winning the game.  I don't blame the players.  Highlights always show that crap.  It is a great way to get your name out there for endorsements, next contract, etc.

It happens in every sport.  The basketball player forcing his team to play defense short-handed while moaning to the ref.  The baseball player who jogs to first and doesn't start running hard until the ball is not caught or over the fence.  On Saturday Travis Shaw hit the game winning home run and was basically walking to first until it got over the fence.  This is with the Brewers SEASON on the line.  What would have happened if that just missed and he ended up on first or second instead of second or third?  I'll tell you what.  Nobody would have said a thing, because it is so common now people don't even notice it anymore.   

The players owe the fans and their teammates their very best effort while on the field.  I get offended when I don't get that.  Of course I'd rather they stand respectfully at attention during the national anthem, but if they choose to use that moment as a protest it doesn't bother me all that much.

had to love marcus cooper's "leon lett moment" yesterday.  good thing the bears still won, but i'd love to hear what the coaches had to say to him


http://deadspin.com/marcus-cooper-fumbles-blocked-field-goal-return-at-the-1818705389

[Jockey]

Linking to Infowars ought to be a ban-able offense.

How else did you think he got edumacated?

[rocket surgeon]

Linking to Infowars ought to be a ban-able offense.

i'm sure that was meant to be teal otherwise it would appear as though it ain't legit...in your mind

[GGGG]

You're right it does not fit the narrative

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20814945/preliminary-tv-ratings-sunday-nfl-games-compared-last-year
http://es.pn/2jVaZxQ

But the real question is what happens going forward?  200 players, or 23% of the league, protested yesterday.  What is the fan reaction in the upcoming weeks, not yesterday.

Week 3 this year will finish well above week 3 last year.  Not only does the MNF game feature the Cowboys, but it is not going up against the Presidential debate like it did in 2016.

[warriorchick]

One unfortunate outcome from this entire brouhaha:  It has accelerated the spread on Facebook of this b.s. self-promoting video:

http://970wfla.iheart.com/onair/am-tampa-bay-1578/watch-his-players-disrespected-the-national-15449310/#.WHuAdscTMO4.facebook

I have had seen it posted several times in the past couple of days.   

[Pakuni]

One unfortunate outcome from this entire brouhaha:  It has accelerated the spread on Facebook of this b.s. self-promoting video:

http://970wfla.iheart.com/onair/am-tampa-bay-1578/watch-his-players-disrespected-the-national-15449310/#.WHuAdscTMO4.facebook

I have had seen it posted several times in the past couple of days.   

Squirmy.

[MU82]

As a cranky old white man, the post play celebration after every friggin' play turns me off more way more than protesting the national anthem.  Seems like every week some defensive lineman is dancing after a sack without realizing the ball is on the ground.  Seems like every game at least one idiot takes a 15 yard penalty for a stupid celebration after scoring a touchdown.  I especially dislike the moron that celebrates a big hit when his team is down 20 and the hit came after a 10 yard gain.

It just seems that modern players are more interested in self-aggrandizement than winning the game.  I don't blame the players.  Highlights always show that crap.  It is a great way to get your name out there for endorsements, next contract, etc.

It happens in every sport.  The basketball player forcing his team to play defense short-handed while moaning to the ref.  The baseball player who jogs to first and doesn't start running hard until the ball is not caught or over the fence.  On Saturday Travis Shaw hit the game winning home run and was basically walking to first until it got over the fence.  This is with the Brewers SEASON on the line.  What would have happened if that just missed and he ended up on first or second instead of second or third?  I'll tell you what.  Nobody would have said a thing, because it is so common now people don't even notice it anymore.   

The players owe the fans and their teammates their very best effort while on the field.  I get offended when I don't get that.  Of course I'd rather they stand respectfully at attention during the national anthem, but if they choose to use that moment as a protest it doesn't bother me all that much.

I'm not into posting a string of photos like some here are, but if I were, I'd show celebrations from 30-40-50-60 years ago: White Shoes; Red lighting the victory cigar on the bench; Santo clicking his heels; the Butch Johnson "Earthquake"; McEnroe being McEnroe; Connors being Connors; Harold Carmichael and the Eagles "rolling dice," the Gastineau Sack Dance; the Ickey Shuffle; Reggie posing after hitting homers; Redskins' Fun Bunch; the Dirty Bird; Mark "the Bird" Fidrych; Valvano running around looking for people to hug; Jeffrey Leonard's "one flap down"; the Mutombo finger wag; Jordan trash-talking; Bird trash-talking; Ali pretty much every minute of every day; etc, etc, etc.

In other words, this ain't new.

Is there more of it now? Certainly. But it ain't new. Auerbach might have been the first "annoying celebrant." But at least he waited until he knew he won!

[Lennys Tap]

One unfortunate outcome from this entire brouhaha:  It has accelerated the spread on Facebook of this b.s. self-promoting video:

http://970wfla.iheart.com/onair/am-tampa-bay-1578/watch-his-players-disrespected-the-national-15449310/#.WHuAdscTMO4.facebook

I have had seen it posted several times in the past couple of days.   

You think it's B.S., Pakuni thinks it's "squirmy", I think it's great. Whatever floats your boat.

[Pakuni]

You think it's B.S., Pakuni thinks it's "squirmy", I think it's great. Whatever floats your boat.

Oh, sheesh. Lighten up.
Also, Matthew 6:5.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Also, Matthew 6:5.

Possibly my favorite piece of scripture. One of the most difficult pieces of the human condition to overcome.

[warriorchick]

You think it's B.S., Pakuni thinks it's "squirmy", I think it's great. Whatever floats your boat.

I agree with the point t that Buzz was trying to make. But I find it pretty hard to believe that a film crew just happened to wander into the gym while this was happening.

To me, this is no different than a movie star's publicist letting the paparazzi know that their client will be at the local soup kitchen at noon. So self-serving....

[B. McBannerson]

You're outraged over a business seeking to maximize its profits, even if that has negative consequences for its labor force?
Maybe you're not Chico's after all.

Radix malorum est cupiditas

[Tugg Speedman]

https://apnews.com/bf595941ba9640e9ab32e474459f529c/Nielsen:-Football-ratings-off-11-percent-this-year

Through three weeks, viewership for national telecasts of NFL games is down 11 percent this season compared to 2016, the Nielsen company said on Tuesday.

Nielsen said the games averaged 17.63 million viewers for the first three weeks of last season, and have dipped to 15.65 million this year. The Nielsen figures don't include many of the Sunday afternoon games that are shown to a regional audience, but not a national one.

[CTWarrior]

I'm not into posting a string of photos like some here are, but if I were, I'd show celebrations from 30-40-50-60 years ago: White Shoes; Red lighting the victory cigar on the bench; Santo clicking his heels; the Butch Johnson "Earthquake"; McEnroe being McEnroe; Connors being Connors; Harold Carmichael and the Eagles "rolling dice," the Gastineau Sack Dance; the Ickey Shuffle; Reggie posing after hitting homers; Redskins' Fun Bunch; the Dirty Bird; Mark "the Bird" Fidrych; Valvano running around looking for people to hug; Jeffrey Leonard's "one flap down"; the Mutombo finger wag; Jordan trash-talking; Bird trash-talking; Ali pretty much every minute of every day; etc, etc, etc.

In other words, this ain't new.

Is there more of it now? Certainly. But it ain't new. Auerbach might have been the first "annoying celebrant." But at least he waited until he knew he won!

Celebrations after TDs aren't new, I agree.  I remember Gastineau doing his obnoxious sack dance.  That's the oldest celebration after a non-scoring play that I can remember, and I hated it then (and I am a Jets fan).  Football is by far the worst with the in-game nonsense, but that is due, I think, to the nature of the game, with 30-40 seconds breaks between plays.  At any rate, it annoys the hell out of me, but I doubt the NFL cares, nor should they.  I've only been to a couple of NFL games, because the experience is so much better at home.  A few years back an NFL HOFer (forget who) said he doesn't watch football any more because it has devolved into professional wrestling.   With about 11 minutes of actual football playing during a 3 hour plus game time, and all the posturing and nonsense going on between the action, I think he had a point.

As for the older stuff, sure Reggie would gawk at a home run, but only when he knew it was 40 rows deep, and besides plenty of people used to despise Reggie for just that reason, and he risked getting himself or a teammate plunked as a result. 

[Jockey]

I agree with the point t that Buzz was trying to make. But I find it pretty hard to believe that a film crew just happened to wander into the gym while this was happening.

To me, this is no different than a movie star's publicist letting the paparazzi know that their client will be at the local soup kitchen at noon. So self-serving....

Of course it is staged.

Just like the military reunions we have seen on broadcasts or members of the military shown on the sidelines. The government pays big money to embed these things in the broadcasts. The whole anthem thing (as it exists today) is a scam. It is not part of football. It was created in 2009 by the DoD paying the NFL to market the military to help recruitment. It was after these payments that the league set their policy on conduct for the anthem.

Finally, now that the creep has taken ownership of this issue, I no longer feel any desire to stand for the anthem - something that I have always done as a matter of respect and to honor our country.



On a slightly different note - I wish people would learn the difference between patriotism and nationalism. I am certainly patriotic - but am about as far removed from being nationalistic as is possible.

[Eldon]

Restaurant owners turning off the NFL

https://www.yahoo.com/news/restaurants-boycotting-nfl-refusing-show-171359662.html