More Signs Football Has Peaked In Popularity

[Pakuni]

On the other hand, the average franchise value rose 8 percent last year. Five teams are now worth more than $3 billion and the least valuable team (Buffalo) is worth $1.6 billion, which is twice as much as in 2010.


https://www.forbes.com/nfl-valuations/list/#tab:overall

[Jockey]

On the other hand, the average franchise value rose 8 percent last year. Five teams are now worth more than $3 billion and the least valuable team (Buffalo) is worth $1.6 billion, which is twice as much as in 2010.


https://www.forbes.com/nfl-valuations/list/#tab:overall

Yup.

And until we see three or four teams hit the market at the same time, owners know the money tree is still healthy and growing.

[Billy Hoyle]

how much of the ratings hit is due to people cutting the cord and watching at bars instead, or those who watch Red Zone?

[Dr. Blackheart]

BTW, crowds at both LA games are apparently terrible today.  But USC had a huge crowd in LA just last night.  And there were big crowds at a lot of the college games yesterday.

So is this a "football" thing?  Or an "NFL" thing?

This is what happens when you screw loyal fan bases by allowing a move to a TV market who couldn't support a pro team before.  USC outdrew the two NFL teams combined.  Add the Raiders to Vegas, and the NFL will have become Roller Derby (made only for TV). Rozelle was a brand builder.  Goddell is a lawyer.

San Diego, the Bay Area and even St. Louis were loyal TV markets and loyal fan bases.  LA has never embraced pro football. 

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2017/9/17/16322710/rams-chargers-attendance-usc-texas

[MUDPT]

NFL doesn't "own" Sundays anymore.  This past Sunday I watched the Arsenal and Cubs game.  Both games would have been significantly more difficult to watch 15 years ago (living in Wisconsin). I have two children 4 and under, so fitting in another 3 hours to watch another sporting event, just isn't happening.  As a healthcare provider, the concussion stuff really bothers me.  And really all of the injuries just make the end of the season a war of attrition, keeping many of the more talented players out injured.  Whether the politics have anything to do with it, the fact that the NFL was blaming it for low ratings was pretty laughable.  Living in Wisconsin, I just don't see people stopping watching an event they have for 40 years because people are sitting for 2 minutes before the game.

[GGGG]

This may be the best article I have read on this.  You have oil speculators like Jerry Jones running the league for short term gain.

https://www.sbnation.com/2017/9/19/16314082/nfl-ratings-colin-kaepernick-los-angeles-rams-owners-money

"If you see an NFL franchise as just another asset to be maximized and squeezed for every dime, being good at football — i.e. producing a good product — doesn't matter. It's not even rational to put effort towards anything but "value creation," i.e. shuffling around pieces of the franchise until they sit in the most profitable positions. The Rams doubled their value overnight by leaving St. Louis and moving to L.A. They are a miserable football team run by a despised owner playing in an empty stadium, but the Rams could care less. The fourth most valuable team in the NFL sucks by design, and shines bright enough on the balance sheet to eliminate any real concerns about how bad the product is on the field."

[Jockey]

This may be the best article I have read on this.  You have oil speculators like Jerry Jones running the league for short term gain.

https://www.sbnation.com/2017/9/19/16314082/nfl-ratings-colin-kaepernick-los-angeles-rams-owners-money

"If you see an NFL franchise as just another asset to be maximized and squeezed for every dime, being good at football — i.e. producing a good product — doesn't matter. It's not even rational to put effort towards anything but "value creation," i.e. shuffling around pieces of the franchise until they sit in the most profitable positions. The Rams doubled their value overnight by leaving St. Louis and moving to L.A. They are a miserable football team run by a despised owner playing in an empty stadium, but the Rams could care less. The fourth most valuable team in the NFL sucks by design, and shines bright enough on the balance sheet to eliminate any real concerns about how bad the product is on the field."

Good article. At least Jones tries to put a winning team on the field as he tries to maximize his investment. Many owners have no interest in that.

[Tugg Speedman]

Good article. At least Jones tries to put a winning team on the field as he tries to maximize his investment. Many owners have no interest in that.

Only last year did they start to win, thanks to getting lucky in the draft with Zac Prescott. The previous 15 years they were as pathetic as the Chicago Bears.

[🏀]

Only last year did they start to win, thanks to getting lucky in the draft with Zac Prescott. The previous 15 years they were as pathetic as the Chicago Bears.

Not a Bears fan, but pretty sure they were in a Super Bowl 10-11 years ago.

[Pakuni]

Only last year did they start to win, thanks to getting lucky in the draft with Zac Prescott. The previous 15 years they were as pathetic as the Chicago Bears.

Well, not exactly.
Cowboys previous 15 years = 123-117, 5 playoff appearances.
Bears previous 15 years = 112-128, 4 playoff appearances.

You can say a lot of negative things about Jerry and be correct, but suggesting he's not a football guy, doesn't care about winning and is in the NFL only for the short-term gain is asinine.

[Tugg Speedman]

Well, not exactly.
Cowboys previous 15 years = 123-117, 5 playoff appearances.
Bears previous 15 years = 112-128, 4 playoff appearances.

You can say a lot of negative things about Jerry and be correct, but suggesting he's not a football guy, doesn't care about winning and is in the NFL only for the short-term gain is asinine.

So the Cowboys were 6 over .500 (rounding to an average season of 8-8 season) and failed to make the playoffs in 10 of the previous 15 years.

This was started because Jockey said:

At least Jones tries to put a winning team on the field as he tries to maximize his investment. Many owners have no interest in that.

Why don't these statistics make a strong case that Jones did not put a winning team on the field until he "screwed up in reverse" and drafted Prescott in the fourth round (135 pick) last year?

And yes, Jones is a football guy and he cares.  But, as the self-appointed GM, he really sucks at it (see the record above) and will not fire himself.

[Jockey]

So the Cowboys were 6 over .500 (rounding to an average season of 8-8 season) and failed to make the playoffs in 10 of the previous 15 years.

This was started because Jockey said:

At least Jones tries to put a winning team on the field as he tries to maximize his investment. Many owners have no interest in that.

Why don't these statistics make a strong case that Jones did not put a winning team on the field until he "screwed up in reverse" and drafted Prescott in the fourth round (135 pick) last year?

And yes, Jones is a football guy and he cares.  But, as the self-appointed GM, he really sucks at it (see the record above) and will not fire himself.

You need a little help at reading comprehension.

Jones did try to put a better product on the field AND he was a crappy GM who often didn't succeed at what he was trying to do.

[Tugg Speedman]

You need a little help at reading comprehension.

Jones did try to put a better product on the field AND he was a crappy GM who often didn't succeed at what he was trying to do.

What is the measure that you use that says Jones tried and what measure says other teams don't?

Are you a mined reader?  Or, are you an angry bears fans and it makes you feel better the summarily announce that the Bears have not tried because it makes you feel better?

[Jockey]

What is the measure that you use that says Jones tried and what measure says other teams don't?

Are you a mined reader?  Or, are you an angry bears fans and it makes you feel better the summarily announce that the Bears have not tried because it makes you feel better?

I dug deep to read Jones' mined.

[Tugg Speedman]

I dug deep to read Jones' mined.

That's my point, you made it up, and it is not even supported by his pre-Prescott record.

[Tugg Speedman]

NFL TV Ratings Slide Worries Wall Street
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/nfl-tv-ratings-slide-worries-wall-street-1041187

NFL's ratings woes continued in Week 2, and Wall Street is taking notice, given there are fewer excuses for falling viewership than there were a year ago when Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump were distracting TV-watching Americans.

While NFL games remain some of the most-watched content on television, ratings slid 12 percent in the NFL's opening weekend, with many blaming Hurricane Irma. But without dramatic weather, the second weekend was off 15 percent year-over-year. This comes after an 8 percent ratings slump last season.

[Pakuni]

So the Cowboys were 6 over .500 (rounding to an average season of 8-8 season) and failed to make the playoffs in 10 of the previous 15 years.

My comment was in response to your foolish remark that Dallas was "pathetic" the previous 15 years. Finishing above .500 is not pathetic. It is, by definition, better than average.

And yes, Jones is a football guy and he cares.  But, as the self-appointed GM, he really sucks at it (see the record above) and will not fire himself.

Sorry for the facts to interrupt, but since Parcells left, making Jerry the unquestioned shot caller, Dallas has done very well as far as personnel decisions. Since 2007, they've drafted 13 Pro Bowl players. For comparison's sake, over the same time period the Packers and Steelers ( two teams held up as models of consistent winning and smart front offices), have drafted eight and nine, respectively. Seattle has drafted 11. New England has drafted eight.

Look, I'm not a Cowboys fan and I'm loathe to defense Jerry Jones, but you've run far askew of reality here in your effort to prop up a clearly false narrative. Dallas has not been pathetic over the past 15 seasons and, like it or not, Jones has done a really good job of building that team.

[GGGG]

I think Stephen Jones deserves A LOT of the credit for the Cowboys draft success.  I mean, ultimately the GM is Jerry, but I think it is his son that it's doing most of the work now.

[Pakuni]

I think Stephen Jones deserves A LOT of the credit for the Cowboys draft success.  I mean, ultimately the GM is Jerry, but I think it is his son that it's doing most of the work now.

I think that's a fair statement to some degree. Stephen, I think, reins in some of the old man's worst instincts (like talking him into drafting Zack Martin over Johnny Manziel), but Jerry's still making the final calls and deserves some credit for how that team;s been built over the past decade.
Again, I say this as someone who is not a fan of the Cowboys and thinks little of Jerry Jones as a human being. But I'm not letting my animosity for him or his team to eschew reality here.

[Tugg Speedman]

Sorry for the facts to interrupt, but since Parcells left, making Jerry the unquestioned shot caller, Dallas has done very well as far as personnel decisions. Since 2007, they've drafted 13 Pro Bowl players. For comparison's sake, over the same time period the Packers and Steelers ( two teams held up as models of consistent winning and smart front offices), have drafted eight and nine, respectively. Seattle has drafted 11. New England has drafted eight.

They missed the playoffs in 10 of 15 years.  How does that count as successful?

[GGGG]

They missed the playoffs in 10 of 15 years.  How does that count as successful?

He didn't say they were "successful."  He said that they weren't "pathetic" as you claimed.

Moving goalposts again...

[Tugg Speedman]

No longer a question of "is it bad" but rather "how bad."



49ers-Rams tickets reselling for the price of two stadium pretzels

http://www.sfgate.com/sports/article/49ers-Rams-tickets-cheapest-levis-stadium-history-12215863.php

Thursday night's Rams-49ers game may be the toughest sell in the history of Levi's Stadium.

As of Wednesday, resale tickets were being offered on StubHub for as low as $14 to see the team host the Los Angeles Rams at 7 p.m. That price is just cheaper than buying a pair of $7.50 pretzels through the Levi's Stadium app and comparable to the price of a beer and a hot dog at the the three-year-old arena. According to the team's seat licensing map, the cheapest original face value for any seat is $85.

Media Circus: It's Early, But the NFL is Likely Concerned with TV Ratings Decline

https://www.si.com/tech-media/2017/09/20/nfl-ratings-decline-reasons-quality-quarterbacks-hurricanes

[Pakuni]

No longer a question of "is it bad" but rather "how bad."


49ers-Rams tickets reselling for the price of two stadium pretzels

http://www.sfgate.com/sports/article/49ers-Rams-tickets-cheapest-levis-stadium-history-12215863.php

Thursday night's Rams-49ers game may be the toughest sell in the history of Levi's Stadium.

As of Wednesday, resale tickets were being offered on StubHub for as low as $14 to see the team host the Los Angeles Rams at 7 p.m. That price is just cheaper than buying a pair of $7.50 pretzels through the Levi's Stadium app and comparable to the price of a beer and a hot dog at the the three-year-old arena. According to the team's seat licensing map, the cheapest original face value for any seat is $85.

Why is this a thing? With few exceptions, bad teams struggle to fill their stadiums in every sport. Especially when paired against another bad team.

Cardinals vs Falcons, 1998:



Raiders vs Chiefs, 2012:


Dolphins vs. Patriots, 2014

[Benny B]

Why is this a thing? With few exceptions, bad teams struggle to fill their stadiums in every sport. Especially when paired against another bad team.

Cardinals vs Falcons, 1998:



Raiders vs Chiefs, 2012:


Dolphins vs. Patriots, 2014

Sure was nice for the Patriots, Chiefs and Falcons to decorate their stadiums to make their opponents feel like they were at home.

[Litehouse]

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/09/17/redzone_is_the_cause_of_and_solution_to_all_of_the_nfl_s_problems.html

Maybe the NFL needs to move beyond the "two games at noon, one game at 3:30" mode of broadcasting.  There are college games on every network on Saturday.  I can watch whatever one I want.

I'm surprised the NFL hasn't gone to more staggered start times.  I think it would be great if they spread the games out over a weekend like this (start times Central):
Thurs
7:00 - 1 game

Fri
7:00 - 1 game

Sat
12:00 - 1 game
3:30 - 1 game
7:00 - 1 game

Sun
11:00 - 2 games
12:00 - 2 games
2:30 - 2 games
3:30 - 2 games
7:00 - 2 games

Mon
7:00 - 1 game