NFC North / NFL Thread 2017-18

[GooooMarquette]

Were the Vikings built around an MVP-caliber QB?

In the two games he played this season, yes.

[mu03eng]

You are correct.  Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy aren't as good as the people running the best franchise of the past 15 years.  They should be fired, their dogs killed and their lawns salted.

OK, so what is the expectation we should have for them, they have a franchise QB fall into their laps and they build an offense that apparently only he can run but it's ok because they also built an extremely mediocre defense with all the money they save because Rodgers doesn't have to be paid his actual value.

It's not like Rodgers is soaking up a lot of cap space, how is the defense as bad as it was last night with two weeks to prepare? Inability to coach, lack of talent, bad scheme? It's gotta be something right?


Side note, Bulaga tore his ACL last night so guess we're rolling with our 3rd string OT for the rest of the season.

[GGGG]

My expectation is that they build a team that is successful and is a championship contender.  By and large, they have done that.  Do I wish they would have won more championships?  Sure.  But I am not going to be *that* fan. 

They've done fine.  But as I have said, it just feels like this group has run its course.

[MerrittsMustache]

In the two games he played this season, yes.

Bradford was great against New Orleans then bad/injured/benched against the Bears in Week 5 and hasn't been seen since. On top of that, last season Bradford was 7-8 as a starter for a team that finished 18th in passing offense and he received as many MVP votes as I did. The Vikings also signed Latavius Murray and drafted Dalvin Cook in the 2nd Round. They were hardly a team built around an MVP-caliber QB.

[Pakuni]

Were the Vikings built around an MVP-caliber QB?

No, but they apparently were smart enough to have more than one competent QB on the roster.

[mu03eng]

No, but they apparently were smart enough to have more than one competent QB on the roster.

If this is a reference to Hundley, I actually think he's competent....I think it's the coaching staff that is in question.

[Jockey]

Were the Vikings built around an MVP-caliber QB?

Defense = GB doesn't have one.

Same thing in Houston a couple years ago.

[MU B2002]

I saw two teams last night that lack playmakers on defense, lack running games, lack great offensive lines.    One still has their starting quarterback.    If the positions were reversed, and AR played and the Lions were going with Jake Rudock at quarterback, the beatdown would have gone the other way and been worse.

I feel like the Lions have the right pieces in the backfield as far as RBs are concerned, but JBC rarely uses them correctly. 

[🏀]

If you have an all timer at QB, the general manager has free range to bolster the rest of the roster.

What exactly has been bolstered?

Ryan Pace has built a pretty good defense and offensive line while having to over reach for a QB.

What has TT built that is above average outside AR12?

[MUBurrow]

If you have an all timer at QB, the general manager has free range to bolster the rest of the roster.

Not if he eats up 15% of your cap. Teams like the Colts, Saints, Washington, Ravens, and Cardinals (and soon the Lions and Raiders) all have QBs that take up a ton of their space, and its really crippled their abilities to build around them. Granted, only Ind and maybe NO have QBs that could arguably come close to what Rodgers gives you, but i don't think having Rodgers really frees you up in roster construction.

[B. McBannerson]

Good. Glad we cleared that up. Out of intellectual consistency, I expect that you will have no counterargument to "if someone feels disrespected, that's all that matters" when discussing social issues on this board.

But that isn't what I stated.  I said that some will be upset and some will not, using the military as an example.  Is that not true? We can't get 100% of Americans to agree we went to the moon or that the earth is a sphere, you don't expect everyone to agree on anything else do you? 

It comes down to degrees in my view.   If 65% of American Veterans think you should stand for the national anthem and kneeling is disrespectful (poll in October), is that the same as 18% of Native Americans wanting to change a nickname? 

We should acknowledge the views of both sides, but that doesn't mean both sides are equal in the argument or claim.  Or do you think it does?

[🏀]

Not if he eats up 15% of your cap. Teams like the Colts, Saints, Washington, Ravens, and Cardinals (and soon the Lions and Raiders) all have QBs that take up a ton of their space, and its really crippled their abilities to build around them. Granted, only Ind and maybe NO have QBs that could arguably come close to what Rodgers gives you, but i don't think having Rodgers really frees you up in roster construction.

I don't disagree on the term of salary cap, but that's never been a GB issue.

TT still hasn't built anything out of the draft.

[MUBurrow]

I don't disagree on the term of salary cap, but that's never been a GB issue.

TT still hasn't built anything out of the draft.

You're right, I was probably being a little obtuse. I generally like TT's philosophy and commitment to building through the draft, but the problem is that he just hasn't done anything with those picks. Here are the Pack's first and second rounders since 2010 - not great: Mike Neal, Bryan Bulaga, Randall Cobb, Derek Sherrod, Casey Hayward, Jerel Worthy, Nick Perry, Eddie Lacy, Datone Jones, Davante Adams, Ha Ha Clinton-Dix, Quinten Rollins, Damarious Randall, Jason Spriggs, Kenny Clark, Josh Jones, Kevin King.

[wadesworld]

You're right, I was probably being a little obtuse. I generally like TT's philosophy and commitment to building through the draft, but the problem is that he just hasn't done anything with those picks. Here are the Pack's first and second rounders since 2010 - not great: Mike Neal, Bryan Bulaga, Randall Cobb, Derek Sherrod, Casey Hayward, Jerel Worthy, Nick Perry, Eddie Lacy, Datone Jones, Davante Adams, Ha Ha Clinton-Dix, Quinten Rollins, Damarious Randall, Jason Spriggs, Kenny Clark, Josh Jones, Kevin King.

Most of those guys have been pretty good NFL players.

[Jockey]

Most of those guys have been pretty good NFL players.

Right. Except teams that get no great players in the first two rounds over a period of time don't fare well unless you have a HOF QB. The roster, minus ARod, is average at best. Possibly below average.

[tower912]

I feel like the Lions have the right pieces in the backfield as far as RBs are concerned, but JBC rarely uses them correctly.

No fullback.  Abdullah is small and fumbles. Riddick is a third down pass catcher.  Nobody can be counted on to score from the  2 yard line.   Therefore, they aren't the right pieces.

[🏀]

Right. Except teams that get no great players in the first two rounds over a period of time don't fare well unless you have a HOF QB. The roster, minus ARod, is average at best. Possibly below average.

Bingo.

[wadesworld]

Right. Except teams that get no great players in the first two rounds over a period of time don't fare well unless you have a HOF QB. The roster, minus ARod, is average at best. Possibly below average.

I think this roster wins the North with any average starting quarterback. Give th Packers Joe Flacco for this entire season and they're a 10-6 type season.

No team in the NFL is winning with Brett Hundley. It's not that the only QB who can take the Packers from the Browns to the Playoffs is Aaron Rodgers. It's that Brett Hundley doesn't allow any team to be anything but the Browns.

QB is by far the most important position in football. When you have the worst starting QB in football you aren't going to win many games.

[mu03eng]

I think this roster wins the North with any average starting quarterback. Give th Packers Joe Flacco for this entire season and they're a 10-6 type season.

No team in the NFL is winning with Brett Hundley. It's not that the only QB who can take the Packers from the Browns to the Playoffs is Aaron Rodgers. It's that Brett Hundley doesn't allow any team to be anything but the Browns.

QB is by far the most important position in football. When you have the worst starting QB in football you aren't going to win many games.

Could Joe Flacco win with this defense? Offense is a problem but it isn't THE problem. This defense gave up 30 points with two weeks to prepare for a Lions team that's previous outing resulted in kicking 5 field goals against the Steelers at home and losing (A Steelers team that lost to the Bears I might add).

TT has invested in the defense and it's still crap. It's a talent recognition issue or it's a talent development issue, but either way some has got to go.

[B. McBannerson]

I think this roster wins the North with any average starting quarterback. Give th Packers Joe Flacco for this entire season and they're a 10-6 type season.

No team in the NFL is winning with Brett Hundley. It's not that the only QB who can take the Packers from the Browns to the Playoffs is Aaron Rodgers. It's that Brett Hundley doesn't allow any team to be anything but the Browns.

QB is by far the most important position in football. When you have the worst starting QB in football you aren't going to win many games.

Then the Packers did a poor job of drafting him or developing him, yes?

[GGGG]

Then the Packers did a poor job of drafting him or developing him, yes?

Well I think in retrospect you can see why he fell to the fifth round in a pretty bad quarterback draft. 

[mu03eng]

I'm still not convinced Hundley is the problem.

[GGGG]

I'm still not convinced Hundley is the problem.

I don't think he is the entire problem.  A defense that hasn't forced a punt for more than six quarters is a problem.

[Spotcheck Billy]

If anyone wants a great deal on a pair of tickets in Sec. 330 for the Ravens game PM me.

[jsglow]

I'm still not convinced Hundley is the problem.

He's not the biggest problem Eng.  But GB has no ability to fix the other problems this year in my view so personally I'd ride him out.

Kinda too bad.  His poor 10 game audition will eliminate any chance at a meaningful second contract.  And from all reports he's a darn good kid.