7000 fans a game?

[Billy Hoyle]

I'm over 40 (by a lot) and it isn't close for me.

O'Neill coached when MU was an independent and in the MCC. Terrible competition.  Wisconsin was in the middle of a 54 year NCAA drought and of little worry in our own state.  KO did a great job, and to his credit played a tough out of conference schedule because the conference schedule was so bad.

If you loved defense, he was your guy. If you wanted offense, not a very good offensive coach and terribly boring to watch.   He was the right guy for that era, but proved over and over again at every stop that he is a short term answer.

MU has been blessed to have very good coaches over the years, each doing some things that should be applauded.  Some were program savers.  Some made us household name again and proved we could play at the highest levels in the land.  Doesn't make one better or worse than the other, they each made important contributions to Marquette basketball.

KO never coached when MU was an independent. 2 years in a still respectable MCC and three in the very good Great Midwest.

And KO still took over a team that was only 3 years removed from the NIT and 13-15 the previous season. It isn't like he took over Savannah State.

[MUDPT]

I was a freshman in 2000, there was NO STUDENT SECTION for the Wisconsin game.  Literally, I had to buy two seats in the 400 level for that game.  A year later, I think we sold out the Cincy, DePaul, and Louisville games. 

[Billy Hoyle]

I was a freshman in 2000, there was NO STUDENT SECTION for the Wisconsin game.  Literally, I had to buy two seats in the 400 level for that game.  A year later, I think we sold out the Cincy, DePaul, and Louisville games.

I remember Mark Belling mocking us on his show and using that as proof MU hoops was irrelevant for good because we had to change "Fill the Corners for Al Night" to Al's Night" because we couldn't sell the game out. And then 2001-02 changed everything.

[B. McBannerson]

KO never coached when MU was an independent. 2 years in a still respectable MCC and three in the very good Great Midwest.

And KO still took over a team that was only 3 years removed from the NIT and 13-15 the previous season. It isn't like he took over Savannah State.

Thank you.  You are correct, the memory is fuzzy.   http://www.upi.com/Archives/1989/11/14/Midwestern-Collegiate-Conference-Basketball-Preview/2482627022800/

"I think Marquette at that time was really close to kind of calling it a day on Division I basketball," said McIlvaine, who owns the program record for blocked shots (399) and is now a radio analyst for Marquette games.
"This was kind of a 'we're going to give this one more shot' kind of deal. I think they brought the right guy at the right time."

Jim McIlvaine on kevin Oneil

Conversely, 

Tom Crean came in to rebuild a program that had won 100 games, went to a NIT final, went to two NCaas, and won a confernece title in the previous 5 years, and had gone to 4 ncaas in the previous 7 yrs.

In the history of the NCAA, no school has ever gone from DI to DIII in a single year.  There was some speculation by one professor to go to DII, but highly unlikely.

Crean and O'Neill both did great jobs.  O'Neill helped show we could be relevant again.  Crean showed we could actually go where we thought was no longer possible and we haven't been there since. 

However, though your statement of fact is correct on what Crean came into, that isn't properly filling in all the gaps.  One of those NCAA appearances was due to winning a conference tournament. He took over a team with a losing record.  The NIT final, is that something to gloat about?  Attendance was dying, interest in the program waning, recruiting (Krunti Hester) in poor shape.  He didn't take over a program that was holding its own or trending upward, or even flat.  It was trending downward.

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

What exactly is he supposed to say when a reporter asks him a question like that?  "Yeah,  Marquette fans are dicks"?

"Yeah, Marquette fans know I'm a dick"

FIFY

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

I was a freshman in 2000, there was NO STUDENT SECTION for the Wisconsin game.  Literally, I had to buy two seats in the 400 level for that game.  A year later, I think we sold out the Cincy, DePaul, and Louisville games.

You are serious right now?

[mu03eng]

Some people here seem to think we have to choose between appreciating KO or TC.  I choose to appreciate both, because they both left the program much better than they found it.

KO took us from a very dark place, and brought us back to relevance and a Sweet 16.

TC started in a better place, but then brought us Wade, a Final Four, the Al and the Big East.

I think it's really mostly people who don't think TC should get any appreciation. I've seen a post saying KO wasn't a good or important coach for MU. For whatever reason posters like Sand-Knit just can't get past Crean's flaws and appreciate what he did.

[wadesworld]

The question is whether Crean brings his checkbook and proves to be a man of his word or not.

[GGGG]

In the history of the NCAA, no school has ever gone from DI to DIII in a single year.  There was some speculation by one professor to go to DII, but highly unlikely.

Both Birmingham Southern and Centennary dropped from D1 to D3 in one year.

But Marquette wasn't going to do that.  That's just silly. 

[4everwarriors]

The question is whether Crean brings his checkbook and proves to be a man of his word or not.

Nah, he's signin' up for ACA as we type, hey?

[Dawson Rental]

KO never coached when MU was an independent. 2 years in a still respectable MCC and three in the very good Great Midwest.

And KO still took over a team that was only 3 years removed from the NIT and 13-15 the previous season. It isn't like he took over Savannah State.

But he had only 6 and a half scholarship players his first year.  I forget the name of the SF (from St. John's Military, IIRC) who played basically on one leg that year. (Sort of like Joe Fulce later on)

[Billy Hoyle]

Both Birmingham Southern and Centennary dropped from D1 to D3 in one year.

But Marquette wasn't going to do that.  That's just silly.

Especially when you consider they had just made the decision to join a conference (for the first time) with like-minded institutions such as SLU, Dayton, Xavier and Butler.

[4everwarriors]

But he had only 6 and a half scholarship players his first year.  I forget the name of the SF (from St. John's Military, IIRC) who played basically on one leg that year. (Sort of like Joe Fulce later on)

Murray, I worry 'bout ya, man. You know, you're knot gettin' any younger, dude. Charles Luter, from Watertown Northwestern Prep, is da cat you be tinkin' of, ai na?

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

I think it's really mostly people who don't think TC should get any appreciation. I've seen a post saying KO wasn't a good or important coach for MU. For whatever reason posters like Sand-Knit just can't get past Crean's flaws and appreciate what he did.

Wrong
What ive said:
1. Crean completed douche of a human
2. Oneil>Crean

[Dawson Rental]

Murray, I worry 'bout ya, man. You know, you're knot gettin' any younger, dude. Charles Luter, from Watertown Northwestern Prep, is da cat you be tinkin' of, ai na?

That'd be the cat.  Thanks for the assist.

[GGGG]

Wrong
What ive said:
1. Crean completed douche of a human
2. Oneil>Crean

You said this: "I hope they boo the F out of him!!"

Why would you encourage the crowd to boo him while also appreciating what he did?

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

You said this: "I hope they boo the F out of him!!"

Why would you encourage the crowd to boo him while also appreciating what he did?

See #1

[jsglow]

Not if you're an adult who has their priorities in order.

It's not going to 'sting' as chick stated in her message? Bull. Nobody is suggesting you don't move on. But it does sting unless you're some kind of robot.

[muwarrior69]

Lon Kruger had a week to prepare for Villanova and lost by 44 points.  Coach Gibbs had two weeks to prepare for the Raiders and lost by 29.  Anything can happen in any game.  What did we shoot that game, 30% or something?  That won't get it done.  We beat the #1 team earlier in the week.  Enjoyed the ride.  I've enjoyed several Final Fours with MU, only one in the last 25 years.  The other two Gerald Ford and Jimmy Carter were President.

Let's get Jimmy to run again.

Yes, I know he is ill and have him in my prayers.

[B. McBannerson]

Wrong
What ive said:
1. Crean completed douche of a human
2. Oneil>Crean

Was ONeil not also fitting of that description at that time in his life at MU?

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Was ONeil not also fitting of that description at that time in his life at MU?

Chicos is more reliable then Pavlov's dog when Too Tanned Tommy gets besmirched

[wadesworld]

Chicos is more reliable then Pavlov's dog when Too Tanned Tommy gets besmirched

Yup.

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

Was ONeil not also fitting of that description at that time in his life at MU?

Thought oneil made a mistake in leaving, however, never disliked the guy.  Personally enjoyed him.  Never a douche on a personal level like Crean, Crean has serious social issues.  Simple a very weird dude.

[B. McBannerson]

Thought oneil made a mistake in leaving, however, never disliked the guy.  Personally enjoyed him.  Never a douche on a personal level like Crean, Crean has serious social issues.  Simple a very weird dude.

Both O'Neill and Crean had their strong detractors on the behavioral level when at MU.  Appears that both did a lot of growing up.

[jsglow]

See, I find this interesting.  Personally I don't think KO mad a mistake when he left. By leaving he made a statement that 'you guys need to leave the Al years behind and spend some coin if you ever want to be important again'. He was correct and that started to sink in following his departure.