MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Mr. Sand-Knit on June 21, 2017, 04:01:53 PM
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The guy is such an insufferable a-hole. I hope they boo the F out of him!!
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The guy is such an insufferable a-hole. I hope they boo the F out of him!!
Who are you referring too?
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The guy is such an insufferable a-hole. I hope they boo the F out of him!!
And I hope our alumni are more mature than that.
What about this comment made you so mad? I used to go to games in the 90s, 7000 a night was generous iirc.
Who are you referring too?
Tom Crean
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I used to go to games in the 90s, 7000 a night was generous iirc.
http://wiki.muscoop.com/doku.php/men_s_basketball/season_by_season_attendance (http://wiki.muscoop.com/doku.php/men_s_basketball/season_by_season_attendance)
He exaggerated a bit...not sure I would freak out personally...but one problem with Crean is he is always rounding up for his own benefit
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When he started we averaged 10k a game. While it's far off to say 3k of those didn't show up or a handful of games skewed the percentages I could see how he would look into a vast Bradley center and think maybe 7k
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The guy is such an insufferable a-hole. I hope they boo the F out of him!!
Look at the players he recruited to Marquette -- Diener, Wade, Novak, James, Matthews, McNeal, Hayward ... why would you boo a guy like that? Do you still hate all your ex-girlfriends?
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It's the typical puffery about one's job performance people engage when they are out of work. It's resume enhancement.
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It's the typical puffery about one's job performance people engage when they are out of work. It's resume enhancement.
I would take Crean back as our coach in a heartbeat . He would get us back to the final four pretty quickly.
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Who are you referring too?
The mirror.
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If we didn't have Wojo, I'd take Crean back.
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Calling 10,000 as 7000. When the place averaged 12,000 the year before he got there is why most consider him a supreme AHole. One of the actual reasons they boo him.
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I would take Crean back as our coach in a heartbeat . He would get us back to the final four pretty quickly.
U recall his coaching record and tournament record sans dwyane wade?
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Crean signed Luke Fischer. Clearly he's angry he let him leave Indiana and come here.
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Calling 10,000 as 7000. When the place averaged 12,000 the year before he got there is why most consider him a supreme AHole. One of the actual reasons they boo him.
So they didn't consider him a supreme a-hole until today? That seems like an odd tipping point. An off hand guess of a large number from nearly 20 years ago that was pretty close to accurate if he was talking about butts in seats?
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I would take Crean back as our coach in a heartbeat . He would get us back to the final four pretty quickly.
I'm sure you're doing some shtick but on the off chance you are serious...he had quite a bit of time to do so at Indiana, with all the advantages that affords, and couldn't get it done.
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If we didn't have Wojo, I'd take Crean back.
A coach with Crean's exact resume? Sure. But I wouldn't take Crean himself back and I'm a Crean apologist. I don't think the optics of hiring the guy who left you for a better job are something I could get past.
Though the collective shockwave of all the exploding heads on Scoop would almost make it worth it.
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Btw, anyone have a link to whatever this thread is about?
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Btw, anyone have a link to whatever this thread is about?
http://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/marquette/2017/06/21/q-a-tom-crean-ahead-his-return-mus-hoopla-celebration/412296001/
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I just read the article twice and still don't see anything about 7000 people. Am I missing it or was it removed?
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The guy is such an insufferable a-hole.
Tell me somethin' new, dude, hey?
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Meh. 190 wins. Final 4. One tourney win in 9 years, sans Wade. Shepherded the move to the Big East. Couldn't string together consecutive classes or develop bigs. In other words, some good, some bad. I'm done worrying about him. Glad he is coming back for the Century jubilee, or whatever it is.
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The arena was desolate during the early days of Crean's tenure. The figures may claim 10k but actual attendance was likely closer to 7k as Crean stated.
And, just to preemptively rebut the stupidity, I went to every single home game of Crean's first three seasons and I remember the empty sections full of seat-backs.
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U recall his coaching record and tournament record sans dwyane wade?
Not to hate. But it's better then our current coaches.
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I just read the article twice and still don't see anything about 7000 people. Am I missing it or was it removed?
Must be the product of another successful Scoop letter writing campaign.
It does say the article was updated two hours ago...
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U recall his coaching record and tournament record sans dwyane wade?
Why exclude Wade? He did recruit the guy. And when you (rightfully) include Wade, you not only get the Final Four, you get prospective recruits watching him star in the NBA for fifteen years....
If you're going to selectively exclude players from your assessment of a coach, remind me how many Final Fours Al made without Bo. ;)
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So they didn't consider him a supreme a-hole until today? That seems like an odd tipping point. An off hand guess of a large number from nearly 20 years ago that was pretty close to accurate if he was talking about butts in seats?
Of course they considered him a supreme a-hole before today. This self aggrandizing BS is just another example (in a long, long list) of why he is what he is. That you think this was an "off handed guess" and that you think 7,000 is "pretty close to accurate" when the real number is 10,000 proves that you have no idea who TC is and that you are really bad at distinguishing the difference between gross exaggeration and accuracy.
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The arena was desolate during the early days of Crean's tenure. The figures may claim 10k but actual attendance was likely closer to 7k as Crean stated.
And, just to preemptively rebut the stupidity, I went to every single home game of Crean's first three seasons and I remember the empty sections full of seat-backs.
+1
Crean handed me seats behind the MU bench outside of the McCormick cafeteria my freshman year. He was literally in McCormick at dinner time with one of the players begging students to show up to the games, saying we'd have a lot of fun.
He put in way more work than people give him credit for to turn the program up a notch from the Wardle+Nnamaka age. Dude is a grinder.
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I will absolutely make fun of Crean on twitter especially with unflattering pictures (there are so many). I was bitter when he left, but I've since mellowed with old age and am fine with Crean's legacy. I would never take him back, if only for the optics but I appreciate what he did and am glad he's doing the Century thing. Contrary to revisionist history, Marquette owes Crean a lot. He's also an A-Hole. Those things are not mutually exclusive.
Side note, if people say he got lucky with Wade then we also have to say he got unlucky with McNeal and DJ injuries. I have no doubt that MU would have made a Final Four run had DJ not broken his foot in the UConn game in 2008. The McNeal injury was also unlucky but to a lesser extent.
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I will absolutely make fun of Crean on twitter especially with unflattering pictures (there are so many). I was bitter when he left, but I've since mellowed with old age and am fine with Crean's legacy. I would never take him back, if only for the optics but I appreciate what he did and am glad he's doing the Century thing. Contrary to revisionist history, Marquette owes Crean a lot. He's also an A-Hole. Those things are not mutually exclusive.
Side note, if people say he got lucky with Wade then we also have to say he got unlucky with McNeal and DJ injuries. I have no doubt that MU would have made a Final Four run had DJ not broken his foot in the UConn game in 2008. The McNeal injury was also unlucky but to a lesser extent.
Wade falling into his lap no doubt was very lucky for Crean. McNeal's injury was unlucky, but you'd still like to think he could find a way to have his team at least ready to compete, or maybe just make a 2 point basket in the first 20 minutes of an NCAA Tournament game.
The DJ injury was under Buzz, and I would never assume a FF run no matter how healthy or good the team was. They were ranked 8th in the country. If they played to that ranking they lose in the Elite 8. Draw, luck, playing well, etc. all have to happen. Unfortunately we'll never know.
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According to wikipedia deane was the one that started recruiting Wade not even crean
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According to wikipedia deane was the one that started recruiting Wade not even crean
Starting the recruiting process is easy. Closing the deal isn't.....
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So I was there for the transition. 7K fans seems about right to me for the games I attended. 3 years later the place was always packed.
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Starting the recruiting process is easy. Closing the deal isn't.....
When your competition (because Wade was a non qualifier) is Bradley and Illinois State it's not all that hard.
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Of course they considered him a supreme a-hole before today. This self aggrandizing BS is just another example (in a long, long list) of why he is what he is. That you think this was an "off handed guess" and that you think 7,000 is "pretty close to accurate" when the real number is 10,000 proves that you have no idea who TC is and that you are really bad at distinguishing the difference between gross exaggeration and accuracy.
Read what I wrote again. 7,000 is close to accurate if he was talking about butts in seats. If the official attendance was 10,000 then 7,000 for butts in seats is a reasonable guess. As a fan who went to some of those games, that seems about right. Others who went to games during that era seem to agree.
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+1
Crean handed me seats behind the MU bench outside of the McCormick cafeteria my freshman year. He was literally in McCormick at dinner time with one of the players begging students to show up to the games, saying we'd have a lot of fun.
He put in way more work than people give him credit for to turn the program up a notch from the Wardle+Nnamaka age. Dude is a grinder.
He also gave away a lot of free tickets all his years...great showman...great snake oils man.
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The mirror.
Boom! ;D
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I would take Crean back as our coach in a heartbeat . He would get us back to the final four pretty quickly.
I agree with this analysis.... of what you would do.
I also agree that you are pretty much alone in your assessment.
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Wade falling into his lap no doubt was very lucky for Crean. McNeal's injury was unlucky, but you'd still like to think he could find a way to have his team at least ready to compete, or maybe just make a 2 point basket in the first 20 minutes of an NCAA Tournament game.
The DJ injury was under Buzz, and I would never assume a FF run no matter how healthy or good the team was. They were ranked 8th in the country. If they played to that ranking they lose in the Elite 8. Draw, luck, playing well, etc. all have to happen. Unfortunately we'll never know.
You're right, DJ injury was under Buzz....getting old makes the memory fuzzy.
And the McNeal injury really hurt because there is one thing that Crean is terrible at, it's making adjustments both in-game and to his overall plan. McNeal was a big part of the offense and defense that season and Crean was just incapable of adjusting.
The only thing I really hold against Crean is holding Wesley Matthews back all those years.
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Meh. 190 wins. Final 4. One tourney win in 9 years, sans Wade. Shepherded the move to the Big East. Couldn't string together consecutive classes or develop bigs. In other words, some good, some bad. I'm done worrying about him. Glad he is coming back for the Century jubilee, or whatever it is.
A very fair and IMHO, accurate description of the man as Marquette's basketball coach. I guess you could add that almost immediately he brought back some excitement to a basketball program that was moribund at the time of his hiring.
I think that 33% of the vitriol about him now is from the way he left and 67% over who he was/is as a human being cue keefe for all the details.
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According to wikipedia deane was the one that started recruiting Wade not even crean
What??? Deane recruited? Who've guessed.
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According to wikipedia deane was the one that started recruiting Wade not even crean
According to Dwyane Wade, he got a letter from MU, one of 100's that MU sends to many HS basketball players.
This notion that a recruit lands in someone's lap suggests to me that many here have never had the pleasure of being recruited to play college sports, or watched the process for their son or daughter. A recruit doesn't land in one's lap, that is no different in this case either.
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+1
Crean handed me seats behind the MU bench outside of the McCormick cafeteria my freshman year. He was literally in McCormick at dinner time with one of the players begging students to show up to the games, saying we'd have a lot of fun.
He put in way more work than people give him credit for to turn the program up a notch from the Wardle+Nnamaka age. Dude is a grinder.
plus 1
I think Crean made a lot of efforts to get students to the games and it definitely makes the atmosphere a 100 times better
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According to Dwyane Wade, he got a letter from MU, one of 100's that MU sends to many HS basketball players.
This notion that a recruit lands in someone's lap suggests to me that many here have never had the pleasure of being recruited to play college sports, or watched the process for their son or daughter. A recruit doesn't land in one's lap, that is no different in this case either.
When a recruit's options are limited due to academic issues, a recruit who may not otherwise be available or interested in a certain school sometimes falls into a coaches lap.
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According to Dwyane Wade, he got a letter from MU, one of 100's that MU sends to many HS basketball players.
This notion that a recruit lands in someone's lap suggests to me that many here have never had the pleasure of being recruited to play college sports, or watched the process for their son or daughter. A recruit doesn't land in one's lap, that is no different in this case either.
I don't think anyone is suggesting he landed in creans lap so much as a player that was probably supposed to be a role player ends up being one of the best basketball players ever is kind of a fluke. Didn't we have the guy we recruited to be the main guy transfer out because of Wade? Seems like that is what people mean when they say helanded in creans lap
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I don't think anyone is suggesting he landed in creans lap so much as a player that was probably supposed to be a role player ends up being one of the best basketball players ever is kind of a fluke. Didn't we have the guy we recruited to be the main guy transfer out because of Wade? Seems like that is what people mean when they say helanded in creans lap
Not so sure Wade rankings were "role player" territory. Wasn't he Top 75?
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Dwyane Wade, let's hear from him directly.
The competition was Michigan, DePaul (who made the NCAA tournament while recruiting Wade), Bradley, Illinois State, and others.
Wade was 9th rated HS player in Illinois, which isn't great. His test scores were bad, Michigan backed off though they could have continued to pursue him (no Big Ten rule preventing them from taking a partial qualifier).
That left Depaul, ISU, MU, and BU.
Here's what Mr. Wade had to say in his book, Crean sold him on MU and committed to him. No falling into a lap, Wade committed to a coach and school (from his book):
Wade said MU was his first choice among those four in part because coach Tom Crean called him at 11:01 a.m. on a June day, one minute after recruiting calls could be made.
"I wanted to be your first call," Crean told Wade. "And I want to be your first call because this is how important you are to Marquette and our future.’. . . That carried weight with me; it meant a lot."
"The moment of truth for me occurred during my parting interview with coach Crean," Wade writes. "In his early thirties, Tom Crean wasn’t a bad-looking guy, with his great head of dark hair and hip glasses. Smart and energetic, he was physically fit and notably tan in an athletic, outdoorsy way – even though frankly, I saw that he was terrible as an actual player . . . . His most noticeable trait, however, was an intense power of observation. Like he was capable of reading your mind."
Crean told Wade he was committed Wade even if he could not qualify with his ACT scores.
"Later I found out that Coach C probably didn’t have the right to say that and he had to go back to the school to make sure that he could stand by that," Wade writes. "No matter, I was sold all the same."
Wade says the third and final time he took the ACT, the score was lower than the other two. He cried when he told Crean about the third score. Crean cried too. Twice in fact.
"At last I heard him take a determined breath," Wade writes. "His energy and tone changed. Now he was the coach, making a call after a tough loss. ‘Look, here’s what we’re going to do. You’re coming here and we’ll stay with everything as planned. The only difference is you won’t be able to play in the games or travel. But you’ll do everything else. You’re on the team."
Crean "emerged as the father figure I needed at the time," Wade says.
But Crean was demanding.
"At different points, he pushed so hard I was seriously ready to go home," Wade writes. "Then, of course, I realized there was nuthin’ to go home to. But that didn’t change the backing vocal track inside my head – This man is crazy!"
Wade recalls his awkwardness at a practice before the start of the 2001 season when he told Crean about Siohvaughn’s pregnancy.
" ‘Whatever happens, whatever you decide, I’m here and we’ll get through this together,’ " Crean told Wade. "Didn’t tell me what to do or how to do it. Just that he’d be there to go through it with me."
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Of course they considered him a supreme a-hole before today. This self aggrandizing BS is just another example (in a long, long list) of why he is what he is. That you think this was an "off handed guess" and that you think 7,000 is "pretty close to accurate" when the real number is 10,000 proves that you have no idea who TC is and that you are really bad at distinguishing the difference between gross exaggeration and accuracy.
THIS ☝️☝☝
And the fact the article was then changed is further testimony to what a loser the guy is.
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Dwyane Wade, let's hear from him directly.
The competition was Michigan, DePaul (who made the NCAA tournament while recruiting Wade), Bradley, Illinois State, and others.
Wade was 9th rated HS player in Illinois, which isn't great. His test scores were bad, Michigan backed off though they could have continued to pursue him (no Big Ten rule preventing them from taking a partial qualifier).
That left Depaul, ISU, MU, and BU.
Here's what Mr. Wade had to say in his book, Crean sold him on MU and committed to him. No falling into a lap, Wade committed to a coach and school (from his book):
Wade said MU was his first choice among those four in part because coach Tom Crean called him at 11:01 a.m. on a June day, one minute after recruiting calls could be made.
"I wanted to be your first call," Crean told Wade. "And I want to be your first call because this is how important you are to Marquette and our future.’. . . That carried weight with me; it meant a lot."
"The moment of truth for me occurred during my parting interview with coach Crean," Wade writes. "In his early thirties, Tom Crean wasn’t a bad-looking guy, with his great head of dark hair and hip glasses. Smart and energetic, he was physically fit and notably tan in an athletic, outdoorsy way – even though frankly, I saw that he was terrible as an actual player . . . . His most noticeable trait, however, was an intense power of observation. Like he was capable of reading your mind."
Crean told Wade he was committed Wade even if he could not qualify with his ACT scores.
"Later I found out that Coach C probably didn’t have the right to say that and he had to go back to the school to make sure that he could stand by that," Wade writes. "No matter, I was sold all the same."
Wade says the third and final time he took the ACT, the score was lower than the other two. He cried when he told Crean about the third score. Crean cried too. Twice in fact.
"At last I heard him take a determined breath," Wade writes. "His energy and tone changed. Now he was the coach, making a call after a tough loss. ‘Look, here’s what we’re going to do. You’re coming here and we’ll stay with everything as planned. The only difference is you won’t be able to play in the games or travel. But you’ll do everything else. You’re on the team."
Crean "emerged as the father figure I needed at the time," Wade says.
But Crean was demanding.
"At different points, he pushed so hard I was seriously ready to go home," Wade writes. "Then, of course, I realized there was nuthin’ to go home to. But that didn’t change the backing vocal track inside my head – This man is crazy!"
Wade recalls his awkwardness at a practice before the start of the 2001 season when he told Crean about Siohvaughn’s pregnancy.
" ‘Whatever happens, whatever you decide, I’m here and we’ll get through this together,’ " Crean told Wade. "Didn’t tell me what to do or how to do it. Just that he’d be there to go through it with me."
High school rankings within a state are meaningless. He was a top 100 recruit who had 2 offers from "high major" teams, both from the same conference. Hmm. His 3rd best offer was Illinois State. Hmm. Pretty rare for a top 100 recruit to have that little interest. I wonder why...
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Tom Crean took a student base that did not care about MU hoops at 200 student season tickets to over 3,000 student season tickets. That standard is still holding true today, thanks to Tom Crean.
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Crean is a world class d-bag, but he also put Marquette basketball back on the map. He reinvigorated the program. He took the team to a Final Four. He brought us Dwyane Wade. He brought in one of the best recruiting classes in the school's history. He brought in Buzz. He then left for one of the most highly-coveted coaching positions in the country. I can't fault him for that. He was obviously far from perfect but he did more good for MU basketball than anyone since Al.
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A very fair and IMHO, accurate description of the man as Marquette's basketball coach. I guess you could add that almost immediately he brought back some excitement to a basketball program that was moribund at the time of his hiring.
I think that 33% of the vitriol about him now is from the way he left and 67% over who he was/is as a human being cue keefe for all the details.
For me, 0% on how he left ( no good way to leave) and 0% that he left (IU top 10 or higher program) and 100% that the guy is a complete douche bag.
Look at his IU situation, he ultimately didnt win enough but that was hightened because of his severe dislikeability.
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For me, 0% on how he left ( no good way to leave) and 0% that he left (IU top 10 or higher program and 100% that the guy is a complete douche bag.
Look at his IU situation, he ultimately didnt win enough but that was hightened because of his severe dislikeability.
Spot on.
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Tom Crean took a student base that did not care about MU hoops at 200 student season tickets to over 3,000 student season tickets. That standard is still holding true today, thanks to Tom Crean.
The 200 student ticket number is a total fabrication as well
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The 200 student ticket number is a total fabrication as well
It isn't. I was a student starting in 1999, students just didn't go to the games or buy tickets. My freshmen year, I could show up a little before tip for most games and sit in the first 5 or 6 rows of the student section.
I'll say it again, Crean can be an a-hole while also being the second most important figure in Marquette basketball after Al.
All the things that make him generally obnoxious now, were revolutionary/important at the start of his career. The hype machine he helped create(athletic department did a lot too) was critical to elevating the visibility of the program within the fanbase. He was a very early adopter of the Midnight Madness concept and engaging with the students on the regular.
I firmly believe that a lot of the Crean hate is retro-active because his schtick isn't new/cool any more. We can joke about Crean showing up at a recruits house in a limo all we want but that was "cutting edge" at the time. Crean as a recruiter and hype man were absolutely critical to restoring Marquette's legacy and if you can't see passed his being a self-serving jerk that says to appreciate that...then that probably says more about you than it does him.
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It isn't. I was a student starting in 1999, students just didn't go to the games or buy tickets. My freshmen year, I could show up a little before tip for most games and sit in the first 5 or 6 rows of the student section.
I'll say it again, Crean can be an a-hole while also being the second most important figure in Marquette basketball after Al.
All the things that make him generally obnoxious now, were revolutionary/important at the start of his career. The hype machine he helped create(athletic department did a lot too) was critical to elevating the visibility of the program within the fanbase. He was a very early adopter of the Midnight Madness concept and engaging with the students on the regular.
I firmly believe that a lot of the Crean hate is retro-active because his schtick isn't new/cool any more. We can joke about Crean showing up at a recruits house in a limo all we want but that was "cutting edge" at the time. Crean as a recruiter and hype man were absolutely critical to restoring Marquette's legacy and if you can't see passed his being a self-serving jerk that says to appreciate that...then that probably says more about you than it does him.
Have you not heard of Kevin Oneil?
Program had been in the NCAAs 4 of the 7 yrs before Creams arrival.
Have zero issues with his schtick.
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Have you not heard of Kevin Oneil?
Program had been in the NCAAs 4 of the 7 yrs before Creams arrival.
Have zero issues with his schtick.
I'm familiar with all of Marquette's coaches....what is your point, what you think O'Neil was better and/or more important for MU than Crean?
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Dude had a solid week to prep for Kansas and didn't have an answer for their fast break. Not only peed down his leg, but also chitted his Haggars, big league, on college basketball's largest and most visible stage. Dat's all anyone needs ta know 'bout Thomas Crean, ai na?
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I'm familiar with all of Marquette's coaches....what is your point, what you think O'Neil was better and/or more important for MU than Crean?
As do most
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Dude had a solid week to prep for Kansas and didn't have an answer for their fast break. Not only peed down his leg, but also chitted his Haggars, big league, on college basketball's largest and most visible stage. Dat's all anyone needs ta know 'bout Thomas Crean, ai na?
Saw Crean and his team right before they boarded the bus in NOLA to head to Superdome, he looked like a zombie and looked scared crapless, as did his team as an extension of their coach.
I was sad to know at that exact moment we were dead. They proceeded to coach n play like they were scared crapless. Game was over before it started.
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As do most
IMHO
Al
Crean
Buzz
O'Neil
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The arena was desolate during the early days of Crean's tenure. The figures may claim 10k but actual attendance was likely closer to 7k as Crean stated.
And, just to preemptively rebut the stupidity, I went to every single home game of Crean's first three seasons and I remember the empty sections full of seat-backs.
Exactly. I remember the opener in 2000-01 against South Alabama, it was a ghost town. I remember the Xavier game on Jan 2, 2000, another ghost town. I walked up to the ticket office at the BC 20 minutes before that game and ended up getting 3rd down behind the MU bench for less than $20. 400 students a game maximum for many of those games. Talk was strong urging a move back to the MECCA and they renovated with the goal of getting MU back. Hell, in 2000-01 we played Minnesota at the MECCA and probably had 7K....for a Big Ten team. The first home game against Wisconsin in the Crean era was a defacto Bucky home game. As most schools did, attendance was based upon tickets distributed and sold, not asses in the seats. Just a fact. Crean is not exaggerating, actual attendance was poor.
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The competition was Michigan, DePaul (who made the NCAA tournament while recruiting Wade), Bradley, Illinois State, and others.
Wade was 9th rated HS player in Illinois, which isn't great. His test scores were bad, Michigan backed off though they could have continued to pursue him (no Big Ten rule preventing them from taking a partial qualifier).
That left Depaul, ISU, MU, and BU.
Wrong about Michigan. The Big 10, Big East, ACC, Big 12 and PAC 12 couldn't touch Wade because he was a non qualifier.
When Imari Sawyer committed to DePaul, the Blue Demons dropped Wade from their list.
That left MU, Bradley and ISU. Given the "competition" it was basically a #done deal.
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Saw Crean and his team right before they boarded the bus in NOLA to head to Superdome, he looked like a zombie and looked scared crapless, as did his team as an extension of their coach.
I was sad to know at that exact moment we were dead. They proceeded to coach n play like they were scared crapless. Game was over before it started.
They should have just unloaded the bus and stayed home ::)
MU wasn't scared. TC thought they could run with Kansas. They absolutely could NOT. It wasn't a matter of being "zombies." It was a matter of a coach overestimating his own team while underestimating his opponent, combined with Kansas playing their best game of the season and Diener being completely overmatched.
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Wrong about Michigan. The Big 10, Big East, ACC, Big 12 and PAC 12 couldn't touch Wade because he was a non qualifier.
When Imari Sawyer committed to DePaul, the Blue Demons dropped Wade from their list.
That left MU, Bradley and ISU. Given the "competition" it was basically a #done deal.
Yes, Wade was a partial (allowing him to practice and get a scholarship). The Big Ten allowed partial qualifiers as did other conferences. Crean was able to convince Father Wild to allow Wade to be admitted. Still, when Wade signed he was the considered the add-on to Blankson (Merritt was the jewel of the class), but Crean saw something in him to stick his neck out for him.
It's disgusting to see how Crean hate leads to revisionist history, trying to take away any credit the man deserves. Compare the program to where it was when he came in to where it was when he left; no comparison. And unlike Buzz, there were no off-court issues, no bad PR for the university, no NCAA violations, no whispers about his recruiting tactics. People here act like jilted lovers. I'll forever be thankful Bill Cords hired Tom Crean to take MU basketball to the next level and beyond.
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A coach with Crean's exact resume? Sure. But I wouldn't take Crean himself back and I'm a Crean apologist. I don't think the optics of hiring the guy who left you for a better job are something I could get past.
Though the collective shockwave of all the exploding heads on Scoop would almost make it worth it.
Yup. That would make us DePaul (Dave Leitao)
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They should have just unloaded the bus and stayed home ::)
MU wasn't scared. TC thought they could run with Kansas. They absolutely could NOT. It wasn't a matter of being "zombies." It was a matter of a coach overestimating his own team while underestimating his opponent, combined with Kansas playing their best game of the season and Diener being completely overmatched.
Not stating that the team wasnt completely out coached.
I was addressing the pregame psyche, they were overwhelmed n emotionally spent, from my observation from being around them. It was an oh crap moment for me. Quite sad, im sure Crean was a blur for his team that week, a pathetic mix of emotion and mania that left his team emotionally sapped and tactically confused. Which to his credit has produced some great wins for his teams over the years, but more times than should be, lead to massive let downs in big games.
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Not stating that the team wasnt completely out coached.
I was addressing the pregame psyche, they were overwhelmed n emotionally spent, from my observation from being around them. It was an oh crap moment for me. Quite sad, im sure Crean was a blur for his team that week, a pathetic mix of emotion and mania that left his team emotionally sapped and tactically confused. Which to his credit has produced some great wins for his teams over the years, but more times than should be, lead to massive let downs in big games.
Didn't know MU had an armchair psychology 101 course
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As do most
I'm willing to bet the number isn't even 25% of the fan base with O'Neal over Crean let alone a majority.
I'm not even sure "most" of Scoop would have that opinion and this place is wacky
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I'm willing to bet the number isn't even 25% of the fan base with O'Neal over Crean let alone a majority.
I'm not even sure "most" of Scoop would have that opinion and this place is wacky
Amongst the millenials you maybe right.
Those 40 and over its Oneil and not even close.
The millenials see a team two years removed from the NCAA tourney and listened to Crean self market as to how terrible the place was.
Those over 40 saw a team in the MCC with anthony Candelino bringing the ball up that hadnt seen a tourney in 10 yrs n 3 coaches.
Its not even a comparison if you have the perspective of having been around. Oneil had the team rolling when he left arguably better than any Crean team sans 2003. With 3 future NBA players his final yr. Went from a low major league to a high major league too. Won a reg season title and all the above.
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I'm not going to discount the work that Crean did because there was a malaise over the program when he took it over.
But there was a feeling of desperation when O'Neill took over. If O'Neill had flopped, MU might be playing in the MVC right now.
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Not stating that the team wasnt completely out coached.
I was addressing the pregame psyche, they were overwhelmed n emotionally spent, from my observation from being around them. It was an oh crap moment for me. Quite sad, im sure Crean was a blur for his team that week, a pathetic mix of emotion and mania that left his team emotionally sapped and tactically confused. Which to his credit has produced some great wins for his teams over the years, but more times than should be, lead to massive let downs in big games.
Your time spent "being around them" was watching them board a bus! ;D Everything else in your post is conjecture.
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I'm over it.
Still uneasy about how he left, but that was years ago.
Wish the fella good luck and glad he came back to MU for this event.
Then he can leave, restart his career and do whatever.
Means zilch to me.
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I'm over it.
Still uneasy about how he left, but that was years ago.
Wish the fella good luck and glad he came back to MU for this event.
Then he can leave, restart his career and do whatever.
Means zilch to me.
Ditto. Booing him at this event would be the height of pettiness.
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I'm over it.
Still uneasy about how he left, but that was years ago.
Wish the fella good luck and glad he came back to MU for this event.
Then he can leave, restart his career and do whatever.
Means zilch to me.
Agree.
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I'm not going to discount the work that Crean did because there was a malaise over the program when he took it over.
But there was a feeling of desperation when O'Neill took over. If O'Neill had flopped, MU might be playing in the MVC right now.
This cannot be said enough. When KO / Deane got back to the NCAAs we knew we were more than just the Al era. There was a modern blueprint for winning at MU.
What always bothered me about TC was he acted like we shutdown basketball in 1977, let Glen River attend school as some foreign exchange student in the 80's and then TC started the program anew in 1999.
Did we honor the 1994 S16 team in 2004? Nope.
Did we honor the 1997 CUSA title team in 2007? Nope.
TC knew that highlighting even the modest glory from the 90's would detract from his narrative. I'm not trying to be petty, that's just how I see it. The funny thing, the guy accomplished enough in 9 years that he didn't need to constantly remind of his bad it was before him (we won a conf tourney 25 months before he was hired) but he kept doing it. That's what made him so loathsome to so many.
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Amongst the millenials you maybe right.
Those 40 and over its Oneil and not even close.
The millenials see a team two years removed from the NCAA tourney and listened to Crean self market as to how terrible the place was.
Those over 40 saw a team in the MCC with anthony Candelino bringing the ball up that hadnt seen a tourney in 10 yrs n 3 coaches.
Its not even a comparison if you have the perspective of having been around. Oneil had the team rolling when he left arguably better than any Crean team sans 2003. With 3 future NBA players his final yr. Went from a low major league to a high major league too. Won a reg season title and all the above.
O'Neil had two good seasons and should get credit for at least Deane's first season so there is not doubting he was a critical coach and I'm dismissing O'Neil as a coach. However Crean had a bigger impact on the program overall than O'Neil did, especially given that O'Neil's legacy wasn't sustained
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This cannot be said enough. When KO / Deane got back to the NCAAs we knew we were more than just the Al era. There was a modern blueprint for winning at MU.
What always bothered me about TC was he acted like we shutdown basketball in 1977, let Glen River attend school as some foreign exchange student in the 80's and then TC started the program anew in 1999.
Did we honor the 1994 S16 team in 2004? Nope.
Did we honor the 1997 CUSA title team in 2007? Nope.
TC knew that highlighting even the modest glory from the 90's would detract from his narrative. I'm not trying to be petty, that's just how I see it. The funny thing, the guy accomplished enough in 9 years that he didn't need to constantly remind of his bad it was before him (we won a conf tourney 25 months before he was hired) but he kept doing it. That's what made him so loathsome to so many.
Correct, but no one is making the argument that he's not loathsome (spoiler alert, he definitely is). The argument is whether or not he had significant impact on the program, more so than another coach since Al.
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O'Neill saved the program from dropping to D3. Crean pushed Marquette to the BE.
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Ditto. Booing him at this event would be the height of pettiness.
Well, it's not going to happen, with folks paying $125 per plate.
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Ditto. Booing him at this event would be the height of pettiness.
I agree although in the JS interview he did mention that he feels getting booed is a sign of respect (or something to that effect).
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O'Neill saved the program from dropping to D3. Crean pushed Marquette to the BE.
That's ridiculous. The program was never dropping to D3. What he did save it from was becoming Loyola.
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This cannot be said enough. When KO / Deane got back to the NCAAs we knew we were more than just the Al era. There was a modern blueprint for winning at MU.
What always bothered me about TC was he acted like we shutdown basketball in 1977, let Glen River attend school as some foreign exchange student in the 80's and then TC started the program anew in 1999.
Did we honor the 1994 S16 team in 2004? Nope.
Did we honor the 1997 CUSA title team in 2007? Nope.
TC knew that highlighting even the modest glory from the 90's would detract from his narrative. I'm not trying to be petty, that's just how I see it. The funny thing, the guy accomplished enough in 9 years that he didn't need to constantly remind of his bad it was before him (we won a conf tourney 25 months before he was hired) but he kept doing it. That's what made him so loathsome to so many.
True but it appears some believed him
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https://mobile.twitter.com/MarquetteHardin/status/877982913903702017/video/1
Wojo and company thanking their lucky stars that Tommy Naismith revolutionized the game.
There is a reason that fellow coaches mockingly called him Tommy Naismith.
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That's ridiculous. The program was never dropping to D3. What he did save it from was becoming Loyola.
AKA dropping to D3.
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He also gave away a lot of free tickets all his years...great showman...great snake oils man.
It got fans engaged? No?
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Look at the players he recruited to Marquette -- Diener, Wade, Novak, James, Matthews, McNeal, Hayward ... why would you boo a guy like that? Do you still hate all your ex-girlfriends?
You can have ex-girlfriend who was great to you while you were together, but if the way you found out that she dumped you was by seeing her on TV talking about her richer, better-looking, and more popular new boyfriend, and that of course he's gonna dump you for him, that's going to sting for awhile.
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AKA dropping to D3.
I had no idea Loyola-Chicago was in Division 3. I know the MVC has taken a hit lately but it is obviously much worse than we all knew.
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I agree although in the JS interview he did mention that he feels getting booed is a sign of respect (or something to that effect).
Crean gets announced
Crowd boos
Crean says "respect" ala Ali G
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I agree although in the JS interview he did mention that he feels getting booed is a sign of respect (or something to that effect).
One more quote that proves to even a casual observer just what a tool the guy is. Boos for an opponent can include a certain level of respect. Boos for a former coach (who's not even an opponent) signal nothing but disdain and antipathy. Even a dense, coach speak simpleton should know that.
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One more quote that proves to even a casual observer just what a tool the guy is. Boos for an opponent can include a certain level of respect. Boos for a former coach (who's not even an opponent) signal nothing but disdain and antipathy. Even a dense, coach speak simpleton should know that.
What exactly is he supposed to say when a reporter asks him a question like that? "Yeah, Marquette fans are dicks"?
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You can have ex-girlfriend who was great to you while you were together, but if the way you found out that she dumped you was by seeing her on TV talking about her richer, better-looking, and more popular new boyfriend, and that of course he's gonna dump you for him, that's going to sting for awhile.
Not if you're an adult who has their priorities in order.
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What exactly is he supposed to say when a reporter asks him a question like that? "Yeah, Marquette fans are dicks"?
How about, "I realize I have my share of detractors but it still hurts a little. I gave Marquette everything I had and it would be nice if more people appreciated that. But it is what it is." I could write 500 more responses that would make at least a little sense and show an iota of humility, humanity and self awareness. Saying "They boo me because they respect me" fails on all accounts.
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High school rankings within a state are meaningless. He was a top 100 recruit who had 2 offers from "high major" teams, both from the same conference. Hmm. His 3rd best offer was Illinois State. Hmm. Pretty rare for a top 100 recruit to have that little interest. I wonder why...
Top 100 recruit? Can you provide some sources for that.
Here's the RSCI ratings for that year, he wasn't top 100.
https://sites.google.com/site/rscihoops/home/2000-final
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Dude had a solid week to prep for Kansas and didn't have an answer for their fast break. Not only peed down his leg, but also chitted his Haggars, big league, on college basketball's largest and most visible stage. Dat's all anyone needs ta know 'bout Thomas Crean, ai na?
Lon Kruger had a week to prepare for Villanova and lost by 44 points. Coach Gibbs had two weeks to prepare for the Raiders and lost by 29. Anything can happen in any game. What did we shoot that game, 30% or something? That won't get it done. We beat the #1 team earlier in the week. Enjoyed the ride. I've enjoyed several Final Fours with MU, only one in the last 25 years. The other two Gerald Ford and Jimmy Carter were President.
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Amongst the millenials you maybe right.
Those 40 and over its Oneil and not even close.
The millenials see a team two years removed from the NCAA tourney and listened to Crean self market as to how terrible the place was.
Those over 40 saw a team in the MCC with anthony Candelino bringing the ball up that hadnt seen a tourney in 10 yrs n 3 coaches.
Its not even a comparison if you have the perspective of having been around. Oneil had the team rolling when he left arguably better than any Crean team sans 2003. With 3 future NBA players his final yr. Went from a low major league to a high major league too. Won a reg season title and all the above.
I'm over 40 (by a lot) and it isn't close for me.
O'Neill coached when MU was an independent and in the MCC. Terrible competition. Wisconsin was in the middle of a 54 year NCAA drought and of little worry in our own state. KO did a great job, and to his credit played a tough out of conference schedule because the conference schedule was so bad.
If you loved defense, he was your guy. If you wanted offense, not a very good offensive coach and terribly boring to watch. He was the right guy for that era, but proved over and over again at every stop that he is a short term answer.
MU has been blessed to have very good coaches over the years, each doing some things that should be applauded. Some were program savers. Some made us household name again and proved we could play at the highest levels in the land. Doesn't make one better or worse than the other, they each made important contributions to Marquette basketball.
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Cream did a good job when he was here and left for a higher profile job. Unfortunately, too many scoopers are thin skinned and are offended by that. He's a good man and is going out of his way to come back to pay honors to an institution he respects. Nobody should boo him for that. I'll be there tomorrow and will give him a strong applause when he's announced. I am confident others there will show some class and do the same.
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Cream did a good job when he was here and left for a higher profile job. Unfortunately, too many scoopers are thin skinned and are offended by that. He's a good man and is going out of his way to come back to pay honors to an institution he respects. Nobody should boo him for that. I'll be there tomorrow and will give him a strong applause when he's announced. I am confident others there will show some class and do the same.
Thanks for stopping by, Tom. Best of luck in the job search.
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"I think Marquette at that time was really close to kind of calling it a day on Division I basketball,” said McIlvaine, who owns the program record for blocked shots (399) and is now a radio analyst for Marquette games.
“This was kind of a ‘we're going to give this one more shot’ kind of deal. I think they brought the right guy at the right time."
Jim McIlvaine on kevin Oneil
Conversely,
Tom Crean came in to rebuild a program that had won 100 games, went to a NIT final, went to two NCaas, and won a confernece title in the previous 5 years, and had gone to 4 ncaas in the previous 7 yrs.
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Thanks for stopping by, Tom. Best of luck in the job search.
I understand the standard issue snarky response must be posted but the quoted wasn't wrong with the main issue: Crean did a good job at MU, left for a higher profile job, and many Scoopers are thin skinned jilted toddlers in response to that.
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Some people here seem to think we have to choose between appreciating KO or TC. I choose to appreciate both, because they both left the program much better than they found it.
KO took us from a very dark place, and brought us back to relevance and a Sweet 16.
TC started in a better place, but then brought us Wade, a Final Four, the Al and the Big East.
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I'm over 40 (by a lot) and it isn't close for me.
O'Neill coached when MU was an independent and in the MCC. Terrible competition. Wisconsin was in the middle of a 54 year NCAA drought and of little worry in our own state. KO did a great job, and to his credit played a tough out of conference schedule because the conference schedule was so bad.
If you loved defense, he was your guy. If you wanted offense, not a very good offensive coach and terribly boring to watch. He was the right guy for that era, but proved over and over again at every stop that he is a short term answer.
MU has been blessed to have very good coaches over the years, each doing some things that should be applauded. Some were program savers. Some made us household name again and proved we could play at the highest levels in the land. Doesn't make one better or worse than the other, they each made important contributions to Marquette basketball.
KO never coached when MU was an independent. 2 years in a still respectable MCC and three in the very good Great Midwest.
And KO still took over a team that was only 3 years removed from the NIT and 13-15 the previous season. It isn't like he took over Savannah State.
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I was a freshman in 2000, there was NO STUDENT SECTION for the Wisconsin game. Literally, I had to buy two seats in the 400 level for that game. A year later, I think we sold out the Cincy, DePaul, and Louisville games.
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I was a freshman in 2000, there was NO STUDENT SECTION for the Wisconsin game. Literally, I had to buy two seats in the 400 level for that game. A year later, I think we sold out the Cincy, DePaul, and Louisville games.
I remember Mark Belling mocking us on his show and using that as proof MU hoops was irrelevant for good because we had to change "Fill the Corners for Al Night" to Al's Night" because we couldn't sell the game out. And then 2001-02 changed everything.
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KO never coached when MU was an independent. 2 years in a still respectable MCC and three in the very good Great Midwest.
And KO still took over a team that was only 3 years removed from the NIT and 13-15 the previous season. It isn't like he took over Savannah State.
Thank you. You are correct, the memory is fuzzy. http://www.upi.com/Archives/1989/11/14/Midwestern-Collegiate-Conference-Basketball-Preview/2482627022800/
"I think Marquette at that time was really close to kind of calling it a day on Division I basketball,” said McIlvaine, who owns the program record for blocked shots (399) and is now a radio analyst for Marquette games.
“This was kind of a ‘we're going to give this one more shot’ kind of deal. I think they brought the right guy at the right time."
Jim McIlvaine on kevin Oneil
Conversely,
Tom Crean came in to rebuild a program that had won 100 games, went to a NIT final, went to two NCaas, and won a confernece title in the previous 5 years, and had gone to 4 ncaas in the previous 7 yrs.
In the history of the NCAA, no school has ever gone from DI to DIII in a single year. There was some speculation by one professor to go to DII, but highly unlikely.
Crean and O'Neill both did great jobs. O'Neill helped show we could be relevant again. Crean showed we could actually go where we thought was no longer possible and we haven't been there since.
However, though your statement of fact is correct on what Crean came into, that isn't properly filling in all the gaps. One of those NCAA appearances was due to winning a conference tournament. He took over a team with a losing record. The NIT final, is that something to gloat about? Attendance was dying, interest in the program waning, recruiting (Krunti Hester) in poor shape. He didn't take over a program that was holding its own or trending upward, or even flat. It was trending downward.
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What exactly is he supposed to say when a reporter asks him a question like that? "Yeah, Marquette fans are dicks"?
"Yeah, Marquette fans know I'm a dick"
FIFY
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I was a freshman in 2000, there was NO STUDENT SECTION for the Wisconsin game. Literally, I had to buy two seats in the 400 level for that game. A year later, I think we sold out the Cincy, DePaul, and Louisville games.
You are serious right now?
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Some people here seem to think we have to choose between appreciating KO or TC. I choose to appreciate both, because they both left the program much better than they found it.
KO took us from a very dark place, and brought us back to relevance and a Sweet 16.
TC started in a better place, but then brought us Wade, a Final Four, the Al and the Big East.
I think it's really mostly people who don't think TC should get any appreciation. I've seen a post saying KO wasn't a good or important coach for MU. For whatever reason posters like Sand-Knit just can't get past Crean's flaws and appreciate what he did.
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The question is whether Crean brings his checkbook and proves to be a man of his word or not.
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In the history of the NCAA, no school has ever gone from DI to DIII in a single year. There was some speculation by one professor to go to DII, but highly unlikely.
Both Birmingham Southern and Centennary dropped from D1 to D3 in one year.
But Marquette wasn't going to do that. That's just silly.
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The question is whether Crean brings his checkbook and proves to be a man of his word or not.
Nah, he's signin' up for ACA as we type, hey?
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KO never coached when MU was an independent. 2 years in a still respectable MCC and three in the very good Great Midwest.
And KO still took over a team that was only 3 years removed from the NIT and 13-15 the previous season. It isn't like he took over Savannah State.
But he had only 6 and a half scholarship players his first year. I forget the name of the SF (from St. John's Military, IIRC) who played basically on one leg that year. (Sort of like Joe Fulce later on)
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Both Birmingham Southern and Centennary dropped from D1 to D3 in one year.
But Marquette wasn't going to do that. That's just silly.
Especially when you consider they had just made the decision to join a conference (for the first time) with like-minded institutions such as SLU, Dayton, Xavier and Butler.
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But he had only 6 and a half scholarship players his first year. I forget the name of the SF (from St. John's Military, IIRC) who played basically on one leg that year. (Sort of like Joe Fulce later on)
Murray, I worry 'bout ya, man. You know, you're knot gettin' any younger, dude. Charles Luter, from Watertown Northwestern Prep, is da cat you be tinkin' of, ai na?
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I think it's really mostly people who don't think TC should get any appreciation. I've seen a post saying KO wasn't a good or important coach for MU. For whatever reason posters like Sand-Knit just can't get past Crean's flaws and appreciate what he did.
Wrong
What ive said:
1. Crean completed douche of a human
2. Oneil>Crean
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Murray, I worry 'bout ya, man. You know, you're knot gettin' any younger, dude. Charles Luter, from Watertown Northwestern Prep, is da cat you be tinkin' of, ai na?
That'd be the cat. Thanks for the assist.
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Wrong
What ive said:
1. Crean completed douche of a human
2. Oneil>Crean
You said this: "I hope they boo the F out of him!!"
Why would you encourage the crowd to boo him while also appreciating what he did?
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You said this: "I hope they boo the F out of him!!"
Why would you encourage the crowd to boo him while also appreciating what he did?
See #1
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Not if you're an adult who has their priorities in order.
It's not going to 'sting' as chick stated in her message? Bull. Nobody is suggesting you don't move on. But it does sting unless you're some kind of robot.
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Lon Kruger had a week to prepare for Villanova and lost by 44 points. Coach Gibbs had two weeks to prepare for the Raiders and lost by 29. Anything can happen in any game. What did we shoot that game, 30% or something? That won't get it done. We beat the #1 team earlier in the week. Enjoyed the ride. I've enjoyed several Final Fours with MU, only one in the last 25 years. The other two Gerald Ford and Jimmy Carter were President.
Let's get Jimmy to run again.
Yes, I know he is ill and have him in my prayers.
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Wrong
What ive said:
1. Crean completed douche of a human
2. Oneil>Crean
Was ONeil not also fitting of that description at that time in his life at MU?
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Was ONeil not also fitting of that description at that time in his life at MU?
Chicos is more reliable then Pavlov's dog when Too Tanned Tommy gets besmirched
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Chicos is more reliable then Pavlov's dog when Too Tanned Tommy gets besmirched
Yup.
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Was ONeil not also fitting of that description at that time in his life at MU?
Thought oneil made a mistake in leaving, however, never disliked the guy. Personally enjoyed him. Never a douche on a personal level like Crean, Crean has serious social issues. Simple a very weird dude.
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Thought oneil made a mistake in leaving, however, never disliked the guy. Personally enjoyed him. Never a douche on a personal level like Crean, Crean has serious social issues. Simple a very weird dude.
Both O'Neill and Crean had their strong detractors on the behavioral level when at MU. Appears that both did a lot of growing up.
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See, I find this interesting. Personally I don't think KO mad a mistake when he left. By leaving he made a statement that 'you guys need to leave the Al years behind and spend some coin if you ever want to be important again'. He was correct and that started to sink in following his departure.
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Thought oneil made a mistake in leaving, however, never disliked the guy. Personally enjoyed him. Never a douche on a personal level like Crean, Crean has serious social issues. Simple a very weird dude.
100% agree.
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Was ONeil not also fitting of that description at that time in his life at MU?
O'Neill's personality was a lot closer to McGuire than it was to Crean. He did step out on his wife which Al never would have done, though.
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Thought oneil made a mistake in leaving, however, never disliked the guy. Personally enjoyed him. Never a douche on a personal level like Crean, Crean has serious social issues. Simple a very weird dude.
It must be you who has issues. Crean was great to my wife and me, even when we had random encounters. Hell, Tom and Joani would appriach us sometimes, and we're nobody's who were just grads and fans from the start of his tenure.
I think you are being the real douche here.