Matta out at Ohio State--who's in?

[Galway Eagle]

Nah its the fact that 5 or so yrs ago they were in the horizon and now their fanbase sees them on par or above the otherBE programs. This will knock them down a peg or two.  I think they over achieved the last few years based on the coach who i think was really really good

Horizon or not since Butler came back in 97 the program makes 17postseasons, 14 NCAAs, 5 sweet 16s two of which they went to the finals. That's not overachieving during a 20yr stretch that's consistency.

[MUEng92]

OSU is unquestionably a top 15 program.

Marquette has 3 Final Four appearances and 1 National title with 4 conference titles.  2 of those 3 FFs and the only Title came 40 years ago.  Florida has 5 FFs and 2 Titles with 5 conference titles, Nova is the same with 11 conference titles.  Maryland has 2 FFs and 1 title with 6 conference titles.  Ohio State has been to 11 Final Fours and won 1 Title to go along with 22 conference titles.  Kansas has 14 FFs and 3 titles with a beserk amount of conference titles.  Ohio State is pretty clearly much closer to Kansas than Marquette or Maryland are to Ohio State, and I would pretty easily argue Ohio State is a step above all of Nova, Marquette, Florida, and Maryland.  Is OSU a true blue blood?  Debatable.  But I don't think it's even debatable that Marquette or Maryland are even close to on par with OSU, and I personally don't think FL or Nova are on that same level either.

Not that I want to get anywhere near this argument, but I assume it is obvious that unless you are discussing conference championships from 1989 to today, there is no argument.  You know, the whole MU not being in a conference that they could win. That and the fact that MU's longest stretch of continuous success was prior to being in a conference.

[wadesworld]

Of which 8 Final Fours, the national title, and 13 conference titles were over 45 years ago. If this were the early 70s, you'd be right. But it's not. This isn't your grandfather's Ohio State, and they aren't close to being a blue blood anymore.

They have Final Four appearances in each of the past 3 decades.  They have 7 conference titles since 2000.  Again, they are much closer to Kansas than Marquette or Maryland are to them.  They are certainly a top 15 program in the country.

[wadesworld]

Not that I want to get anywhere near this argument, but I assume it is obvious that unless you are discussing conference championships from 1989 to today, there is no argument.  You know, the whole MU not being in a conference that they could win. That and the fact that MU's longest stretch of continuous success was prior to being in a conference.

And yet you could pretend that Marquette would've won any conference they would've been in for the entire decade of the 1970s and we'd still fall 8 conference titles short of what Ohio State has.

[jsglow]

Nah its the fact that 5 or so yrs ago they were in the horizon and now their fanbase sees them on par or above the otherBE programs. This will knock them down a peg or two.  I think they over achieved the last few years based on the coach who i think was really really good

Umm, they are with the exception of the conference check they get and the fact that they still have to say 'Thank you' when we pick them up with the private jet.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

This is just one ranking system, but back in 2012, ESPN ranked the top 50 programs in College Basketball.

They put Ohio State at #15: http://www.espn.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/63012/50-in-50-series-no-15-ohio-state

They put Marquette at #17
http://www.espn.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/62996/50-in-50-series-no-17-marquette

Since those rankings were published, Ohio State has had 3 more tournament appearances, an NIT appearance, and an Elite Eight run. Marquette has had 2 more tournament appearances and an Elite Eight run.

Obviously, this doesn't definitively prove anything. Its just one rating system with arbitrary rules. But Marquette and Ohio State are pretty close IMHO.

Kansas was #5 FWIW

[Galway Eagle]

This is just one ranking system, but back in 2012, ESPN ranked the top 50 programs in College Basketball.

They put Ohio State at #15: http://www.espn.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/63012/50-in-50-series-no-15-ohio-state

They put Marquette at #17
http://www.espn.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/62996/50-in-50-series-no-17-marquette

Since those rankings were published, Ohio State has had 3 more tournament appearances, an NIT appearance, and an Elite Eight run. Marquette has had 2 more tournament appearances and an Elite Eight run.

Obviously, this doesn't definitively prove anything. Its just one rating system with arbitrary rules. But Marquette and Ohio State are pretty close IMHO.

Kansas was #5 FWIW

How did you get this to show up? I kept trying to get it and the links stopped working

[brewcity77]

This is just one ranking system, but back in 2012, ESPN ranked the top 50 programs in College Basketball.

They put Ohio State at #15: http://www.espn.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/63012/50-in-50-series-no-15-ohio-state

They put Marquette at #17
http://www.espn.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/62996/50-in-50-series-no-17-marquette

Since those rankings were published, Ohio State has had 3 more tournament appearances, an NIT appearance, and an Elite Eight run. Marquette has had 2 more tournament appearances and an Elite Eight run.

Obviously, this doesn't definitively prove anything. Its just one rating system with arbitrary rules. But Marquette and Ohio State are pretty close IMHO.

Kansas was #5 FWIW

That feels about right. Ohio State is a fine program, similar to probably 20 or so programs that are clearly behind the blue bloods but aren't that far from each other. Top 15, 20, 25, I don't think the gap between any of those programs is that big. The types of jobs that can be great if the coach makes them that way, but not so great they will succeed no matter who's in the head seat.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

How did you get this to show up? I kept trying to get it and the links stopped working

Had trouble at first too. If you look at the top of the links I provided, there is a link that says : "A running list of the top 50 can be found here." Click on that, and it will take you to #1 North Carolina's page. But on the left hand side there will be a column with links to all of the top 50.

[oldwarrior81]

in 2009 Sagarin did a ranking by decades:
http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2009/1004/cbe1.pdf

1940's -  Ohio State  8th,   Marquette  outside top 40
1950's -  Ohio State 25th,   Marquette  unranked
1960's -  Ohio State  4th,    Marquette  unranked
1970's -  Ohio State unranked,  Marquette  3rd
1980's -  Ohio State 22nd,   Marquette  unranked
1990's -  Ohio State unranked,  Marquette unranked
2000's -  Ohio State 22nd,   Marquette  32nd

overall 1940-2009:  Ohio State  9th,  Marquette  24th

[Earl Tatum]

espn--Chris Holtmann new Ohio State Coach

[GGGG]

espn--Chris Holtmann new Ohio State Coach

Thanks Earl.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

espn--Chris Holtmann new Ohio State Coach

Wait a minute - what happened to Thad Matta?

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

espn--Chris Holtmann new Ohio State Coach

But it was a fantastic 1,000th post!

[SaveOD238]

in 2009 Sagarin did a ranking by decades:
http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2009/1004/cbe1.pdf

1940's -  Ohio State  8th,   Marquette  outside top 40
1950's -  Ohio State 25th,   Marquette  unranked
1960's -  Ohio State  4th,    Marquette  unranked
1970's -  Ohio State unranked,  Marquette  3rd
1980's -  Ohio State 22nd,   Marquette  unranked
1990's -  Ohio State unranked,  Marquette unranked
2000's -  Ohio State 22nd,   Marquette  32nd

overall 1940-2009:  Ohio State  9th,  Marquette  24th

8 Years have passed since then.  In that time, Ohio State had 6 NCAA trips, a FF, another E8, and two more S16s.  Marquette has been to the NCAA 5 times, and has an E8 and two additional S16s.  Again, we're looking at roughly equivalent decades so far.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

espn--Chris Holtmann new Ohio State Coach

Buzz to Virginia Tech

[Billy Hoyle]

in 2009 Sagarin did a ranking by decades:
http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2009/1004/cbe1.pdf

1940's -  Ohio State  8th,   Marquette  outside top 40
1950's -  Ohio State 25th,   Marquette  unranked
1960's -  Ohio State  4th,    Marquette  unranked
1970's -  Ohio State unranked,  Marquette  3rd
1980's -  Ohio State 22nd,   Marquette  unranked
1990's -  Ohio State unranked,  Marquette unranked
2000's -  Ohio State 22nd,   Marquette  32nd

overall 1940-2009:  Ohio State  9th,  Marquette  24th

They did have some rough years under Randy Ayers in the 1990's, but still during that decade they went to the Final Four in 1999 (Scoonie Penn), won the Big Ten in 1992 (lost to the Fab Five in the Elite 8, led by Jimmy Jackson and Laurence Funderburke) Sweet 16 in 1991.

[CincyEagle]

8 Years have passed since then.  In that time, Ohio State had 6 NCAA trips, a FF, another E8, and two more S16s.  Marquette has been to the NCAA 5 times, and has an E8 and two additional S16s.  Again, we're looking at roughly equivalent decades so far.

I'd argue an additional Final Four would cancel out any equivalence between tOSU and MU in the past decade.

Beyond tournament success, tOSU has also been a staple in the upper half of national polls while MU has not. In fact, according to the AP (https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ncaa.com/amp/news/basketball-men/article/2017-03-29/ap-releases-top-100-college-basketball-programs-based-poll) tOSU has been ranked first in 37 polls, while MU has been ranked first in 3 polls.

Taking nothing away from the success and quality of the MU program, I'd argue tOSU is historically a superior program.

[Dawson Rental]

Horizon or not since Butler came back in 97 the program makes 17postseasons, 14 NCAAs, 5 sweet 16s two of which they went to the finals. That's not overachieving during a 20yr stretch that's consistency.

Wow, that's Mr. Sand-Knit type consistency...

[Dawson Rental]

So, Ohio State could have done this right after the season ended, and not done any better in getting their new coach.  That's kinda impressive.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

So, Ohio State could have done this right after the season ended, and not done any better in getting their new coach.  That's kinda impressive.

But got turned down by two Big East coaches prior to that. While I think Holtmann is a fantastic coach and hire, the money was just too much for him to pass up. OSU got a good coach, and one I wish Butler kept, but they didn't get their first couple handfuls of choices, realistic or not.

Hope BE coaches continue to hold strong.

[wadesworld]

But got turned down by two Big East coaches prior to that. While I think Holtmann is a fantastic coach and hire, the money was just too much for him to pass up. OSU got a good coach, and one I wish Butler kept, but they didn't get their first couple handfuls of choices, realistic or not.

Hope BE coaches continue to hold strong.

That is typically the case, and should be the case as well. It doesn't hurt to call and ask someone, no matter how unrealistic it may seem.

Also I'm typically pretty skeptical of any leaks of offers being made. The McDermott one sounds like it was legit though.

I think ultimately they got a better coach than McDermott. I think Mack and Holtmann were the 2 best realistic options for OSU, and I'm not sure how reslistic Mack really was.

[Herman Cain]

Would like to see Crean get Butler job. It would add some spice to our conference rivalry with Butler.

[Tugg Speedman]

Did Holtmann pass on the IU job?  Is he valuing tOSU higher than IU?

Who do you think has the better hire ... IU with Miller or tOSU with Holtmann?

[Herman Cain]

Did Holtmann pass on the IU job?  Is he valuing tOSU higher than IU?

Who do you think has the better hire ... IU with Miller or tOSU with Holtmann?

I think OSU is a better job. They were willing to play big bucks and it is easier to recruit blue chip talent there.

Miller is a very good coach . His speciality was getting the most out of players by helping them improve their games . That is why he recruited Kostas to Dayton . Holtmann was very impressive though at Butler especially given the circumstances in which he got the job , so I would give the slight nod to Holtmann as the Bette hire but only by a little bit.