MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Windyplayer on June 05, 2017, 01:11:24 PM
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(This is Scoop material for the month of June.)
http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/news/thad-matta-ohio-state-news-health-retirement-replacement/35vimtr1l4z01jhim6t15odkx (http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/news/thad-matta-ohio-state-news-health-retirement-replacement/35vimtr1l4z01jhim6t15odkx)
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No Matta
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I'm assuming that Holtmann and Mack will be among the names floated about.
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Columbuzz Ohio
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Cream to OSU?
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Crean might be the best name on the market that wouldn't require any buy-outs or shake-ups. Be interesting to see the route they go this late in the process.
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Apparently he isn't willingly leaving. Maybe he wanted one more year and OSU wouldn't give it to him? Very odd.
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Would it be too much of a jump to wonder if a fear of sanctions or some kind of penalty might be in play here? Even if there was starting to be some angst with the results of late, he's been there forever and the timing of this is really bizarre.
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According to AD, Gene Smith. Loss battles in recruiting this spring. Matta's health is having a negative impact on recruiting.
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According to AD, Gene Smith. Loss battles in recruiting this spring. Matta's health is having a negative impact on recruiting.
This is laughable.
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Mick Cronin has to be high up on the list.
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I'm assuming that Holtmann and Mack will be among the names floated about.
He did come from both of those schools.
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According to AD, Gene Smith. Loss battles in recruiting this spring. Matta's health is having a negative impact on recruiting.
I am kind of surprised they mentioned his health. Isn't firing someone over health issues illegal unless they can prove relatively conclusively that it affected job performance?
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I was wondering how many years Matta had left. Surprised that it went down in June.
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I am kind of surprised they mentioned his health. Isn't firing someone over health issues illegal unless they can prove relatively conclusively that it affected job performance?
Didn't Utah fire majerus for health issues?
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No Matta
Well done, sir.
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Health concern is back pain with associated foot drop from a botched back surgery. Lesson as always, never have back surgery.
Also, Crean interviewed for this job when Matta got it, maybe he's interested again.
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I wonder who from Scoop posts on ESPN as Gladys Knight
Gladys Nite · Marquette University
If I were a Buckeye fan, I'd question the long delay in making this decision. Who do you get in June? Wait...Tom Crean is available. Do it Geno!
Like · Reply · 46 mins
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Health concern is back pain with associated foot drop from a botched back surgery. Lesson as always, never have back surgery.
Also, Crean interviewed for this job when Matta got it, maybe he's interested again.
Crean did not interview. That was a rumor that originated in Madison by a Mr. B. Ryan
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I am kind of surprised they mentioned his health. Isn't firing someone over health issues illegal unless they can prove relatively conclusively that it affected job performance?
Has to be covered under the ADA (or equivalent state laws) and even then the terminated employee has to show that the reason for termination, i.e. performance, is a pretext, and that they were in fact fired because of their disability. We (US legal system, that is) like at-will employment. There are carve-outs like the ADA, but the language really limits when an employee can seek recovery via wrongful termination.
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Duplicate
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Crean sucks
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https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/bigten/2017/04/28/ohio-state-darius-bazley-basketball-recruit-bigger-stage/101034680/
This 2018 recruits words said it all. The world of college hoops is recruiting and if you lose the recruits, you are out the door. Good luck to Matta, he seemed like a nice guy who had a good run.
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Has to be covered under the ADA (or equivalent state laws) and even then the terminated employee has to show that the reason for termination, i.e. performance, is a pretext, and that they were in fact fired because of their disability. We (US legal system, that is) like at-will employment. There are carve-outs like the ADA, but the language really limits when an employee can seek recovery via wrongful termination.
tOSU is paying his owed salary for the next 3 years. Can it be considered wrongful termination if he's still getting his money to go away?
Also, Matta's not even 50 yet? I would have guessed he was nearing 60.
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tOSU is paying his owed salary for the next 3 years. Can it be considered wrongful termination if he's still getting his money to go away?
Also, Matta's not even 50 yet? I would have guessed he was nearing 60.
This ... If he is getting paid for the rest of his contract, he is suffering very little to no financial damage.
So what does he sue for?
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Sporting News has Wojo as a top target for OSU...
http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/news/thad-matta-replacement-coach-candidates-ohio-state-basketball-gregg-marshall-chris-holtmann-chris-mack/1imw9cukmhyf01nxeg0tzmligv (http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/news/thad-matta-replacement-coach-candidates-ohio-state-basketball-gregg-marshall-chris-holtmann-chris-mack/1imw9cukmhyf01nxeg0tzmligv)
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Sporting News has Wojo as a top target for OSU...
http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/news/thad-matta-replacement-coach-candidates-ohio-state-basketball-gregg-marshall-chris-holtmann-chris-mack/1imw9cukmhyf01nxeg0tzmligv (http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/news/thad-matta-replacement-coach-candidates-ohio-state-basketball-gregg-marshall-chris-holtmann-chris-mack/1imw9cukmhyf01nxeg0tzmligv)
MUFINY will be positively giddy.
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Sporting News has Wojo as a top target for OSU...
http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/news/thad-matta-replacement-coach-candidates-ohio-state-basketball-gregg-marshall-chris-holtmann-chris-mack/1imw9cukmhyf01nxeg0tzmligv (http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/news/thad-matta-replacement-coach-candidates-ohio-state-basketball-gregg-marshall-chris-holtmann-chris-mack/1imw9cukmhyf01nxeg0tzmligv)
I think this has more to do with the belief that the Big East is a second tier conference and all the coaches there are looking for greener pastures. NBC sports also had an article on possible candidates and it was pretty much the the best coaches in the Big East, AAC and both Crean and Buzz. They listed Jay Wright as a possible candidate.
The reality is, with OSU's budget, they have the resources to poach a coach from almost any program. The situation is shady enough that I don't think they can get anyone they want, but they can throw enough money out there to make pretty much anyone at least pick up the phone.
Too bad they waited so long, I bet they couldn't have gotten Archie Miller over I4. I don't think there's any way they hire Crean after I4 fired him to hire Miller.
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My sources say the top candidates are Howland, Shaka and Cuonzo.
Seriously, though, there is only one coaching giant who really will be considered for this. A no-brainer. A slam dunk.
And, dammit, we'll miss Stan so much!
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Didn't Utah state fire majerus for health issues?
The legendary Stew Morrill takes exception to this.
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I think this has more to do with the belief that the Big East is a second tier conference and all the coaches there are looking for greener pastures. NBC sports also had an article on possible candidates and it was pretty much the the best coaches in the Big East, AAC and both Crean and Buzz. They listed Jay Wright as a possible candidate.
The reality is, with OSU's budget, they have the resources to poach a coach from almost any program. The situation is shady enough that I don't think they can get anyone they want, but they can throw enough money out there to make pretty much anyone at least pick up the phone.
Too bad they waited so long, I bet they couldn't have gotten Archie Miller over I4. I don't think there's any way they hire Crean after I4 fired him to hire Miller.
I just found that article and it's laughable. Jay Wright turned down the 76ers and jobs bigger than OSU so i highly doubt he'll go for the buckeyes. Can't see Mack leaving his alma mater either where he's on track to make a legendary name for himself.
Holtman could be a different story though.
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The following exchange in the comment section of the CBS sports story is great:
((full story (no Wojo):http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/seven-realistic-coaching-candidates-ohio-state-should-consider-to-replace-thad-matta/ (http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/seven-realistic-coaching-candidates-ohio-state-should-consider-to-replace-thad-matta/)))
Buzz Williams has my vote.
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Malignar
1 hour ago
I will disown Buckeye Basketball if they hire Tom Crean
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mscott59
48 minutes ago
agreed that crean would not go over well w/any tosu hoops fan i know... me included. another dark horse candidate imho is chris jent. he could provide some stability with the current recruits for next season, has played/coached on the pro level which is always attractive to recruits, and is young enough to be a long term hire if successful. obviously the negative is does someone w/no head coaching experience on the college level work?
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mactoid
37 minutes ago
What? You don't wanna watch that strutting peacock preen up & down the sidelines like a goosed moose?
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I bet they are looking for an available coach with recent final four experience. I wonder who that might be.
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Crean did not interview. That was a rumor that originated in Madison by a Mr. B. Ryan
Hmmm. I heard it from someone at OSU and MU at the time. I'm probably wrong though. This was right around when Wesley committed right?
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Is it too late for any of tOSU's commits to get out?
Anyone expect transfers?
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Didn't Utah state fire majerus for health issues?
Wtf???!!! For at least 3 reasons
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Wtf???!!! For at least 3 reasons
Meant to write Utah. And rick was obese and had issues because of it, sorry if that truth offends you. And I thought he was fired or pushed out because of it, I didn't state it as a fact I asked so if that's why you're freaking out then chill out.
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I bet they are looking for an available coach with recent final four experience. I wonder who that might be.
JT3?
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Is it too late for any of tOSU's commits to get out?
Anyone expect transfers?
There might be transfers and decommits, but its late in the game and there aren't too many good candidates. Their best returning player would be a sit 1, play 1. Two years of scholarship for 1 year of play. Their next best player is also a junior but only appeared in 9 games due to injury. I assume he will get a medical redshirt and I believe he could then transfer and have two years of eligibility left. Kam Williams is a redshirt junior so he theoretically could be a grad transfer. He had a big game against us his freshman year, scoring 15. They do have a top 100 freshman coming in but he's a Columbus native and his older bro is on the team so I don't think he will be looking to move. They have a top 100 center from 2016 who redshirted this past season because he wasn't ready to contribute. Not sure he would want to transfer after already sitting a year, would also leave him with only three years of eligibility. The rest of the roster doesn't look like anything Marquette would be interested in.
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I can see Buzz jumping on this one. Frank Martin? Bo isn't doing anything. Alford. Hoiberg might want to come back.
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It's Ohio State! It's Ohio State!
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I bet they are looking for an available coach with recent final four experience. I wonder who that might be.
Bo Ryan
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There might be transfers and decommits, but its late in the game and there aren't too many good candidates. Their best returning player would be a sit 1, play 1. Two years of scholarship for 1 year of play. Their next best player is also a junior but only appeared in 9 games due to injury. I assume he will get a medical redshirt and I believe he could then transfer and have two years of eligibility left. Kam Williams is a redshirt junior so he theoretically could be a grad transfer. He had a big game against us his freshman year, scoring 15. They do have a top 100 freshman coming in but he's a Columbus native and his older bro is on the team so I don't think he will be looking to move. They have a top 100 center from 2016 who redshirted this past season because he wasn't ready to contribute. Not sure he would want to transfer after already sitting a year, would also leave him with only three years of eligibility. The rest of the roster doesn't look like anything Marquette would be interested in.
More interested in the process ... is it too late to decommit? If they started summer school today, Monday, June 5, does that make it too late?
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Is it too late for any of tOSU's commits to get out?
Anyone expect transfers?
I've seen transfers popping up elsewhere this week, so we may still see some shuffling.
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MUFINY will be positively giddy.
I agree with this analysis.
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I heard "bank" definitionally means we done yo
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Bo Ryan
It would make me kinda happy to see this. But I think Barry knows all of his dirt and can keep him retired.
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It would make me kinda happy to see this. But I think Barry knows all of his dirt and can keep him retired.
Oh ya, Bo is as dirty as they come. Just a pig. He might even do a domer kinda pig.
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The coaching situation for the Buckeyes could go from Thad to worse.
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The coaching situation for the Buckeyes could go from Thad to worse.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/c8bJDVz7i9KRW/giphy.gif)
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I can see Buzz jumping on this one. Frank Martin? Bo isn't doing anything. Alford. Hoiberg might want to come back.
Alford is not leaving. His family loves Southern California.
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Alford is not leaving. His family loves Southern California.
I'm imagining 79 stalking the family using binoculars and bushes for cover, taking detailed notes on their daily activities/interactions, and drafting a report based on the same and arriving at the above conclusion.
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I wonder if OSU has a read on who might be interested before cutting Matta loose. Even if you take the song and dance on his health to be true, you'd still have to think that another year of Matta would beat starting a search from scratch in June? They at least could've tried to lure a top assistant now with a head coach in waiting promise - or hell, just done this from scratch in April 2018.
That and OSU's deep pocketbook might open up for Hoiberg if everyone in Chicago is starting to wear down. Although if Chicago wanted to can Hoiberg, he would probably make as much sitting on the couch for a few years as he would taking the OSU job until his contract expires. He makes $5M per through 2019-2020, and only Pitino, Calipari, Coach K, Self and Izzo make in the neighborhood of $5M depending on which reporting you use.
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I'm imagining 79 stalking the family using binoculars and bushes for cover, taking detailed notes on their daily activities/interactions, and drafting a report based on the same and arriving at the above conclusion.
Nope. We live in Calabasas and know the family is very happy in living there. Pretty sure he is not leaving until Kayla is finished.
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Hoiberg or Billy Donovan would make sense. Those two would excite tOSU fans and neither would face a strenuous good bye. I'm not a Russ hater but this season and the playoffs didn't help reassure anyone that a championship is on the way. They seem closer to blow it up than winning a title.
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Nope. We live in Calabasas and know the family is very happy in living there. Pretty sure he is not leaving until Kayla is finished.
Roger that.
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Hoiberg or Billy Donovan would make sense. Those two would excite tOSU fans and neither would face a strenuous good bye. I'm not a Russ hater but this season and the playoffs didn't help reassure anyone that a championship is on the way. They seem closer to blow it up than winning a title.
Can't see Donovan bolting the NBA for Columbus, but nothing surprises me anymore.
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If you have to live in SoCal, Calabasas is not a bad choice. A helluva lot nice than any Big 10 local.
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Can't see Donovan bolting the NBA for Columbus, but nothing surprises me anymore.
Coaching a player like Westbrook could make a coach want to stay with that player forever because of his talent or run far, far away from him because of his attitude.
I'd be very surprised if Donovan didn't at least listen to tOSU.
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Of all the names out there, Donovan definitely makes the most sense. OSU would be lucky to get him, and the situation in OKC could be one that would make him seriously think about leaving.
I would think that Buzz would intrigue them and that he would bolt for the job in a nanosecond.
Crean ... I don't know why they would be interested in another conference team's discarded laundry. That isn't even a shot at Crean (although I'm sure it sounds like it). There almost surely are better candidates out there who aren't fresh off a firing.
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OKC will end up being a backwater job in the NBA. No way they can keep young talent in that town. He would be an awesome get for any program. I'd trade wojo for Donovan in a heartbeat.
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I'd trade wojo for Donovan in a heartbeat.
That's pretty much an obvious statement.
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Hey, I'm 21K posts behind you, be gentle.
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Hoiberg or Billy Donovan would make sense.
I hadn't thought of Hoiberg but that's an interesting call. Hasn't really worked out well in Chicago and he seems much better suited for the college game. I could see him jumping for that one, asked his style and pedigree would likely satisfy tOSU fans.
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OKC will end up being a backwater job in the NBA. No way they can keep young talent in that town. He would be an awesome get for any program. I'd trade wojo for Donovan in a heartbeat.
So you are saying that you'd trade an unproven (albeit improving) college coach for a 20+ year guy who has won two national championships and has experienced tremendous success everywhere he's been?
Wow! Way to go out on a limb!
Next thing you'll tell us is that you'd trade Wojo for Coach Cal, too!
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Crean ... I don't know why they would be interested in another conference team's discarded laundry. That isn't even a shot at Crean (although I'm sure it sounds like it). There almost surely are better candidates out there who aren't fresh off a firing.
Agree - why fire a guy to hire a guy with a similar but less successful background?
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Agree - why fire a guy to hire a guy with a similar but less successful background?
Younger model?
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Younger model?
Crean is two years older than Matta.
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https://twitter.com/benaxelrod/status/872195793725399040
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What's the Matta with OSU, anyway?
Thith whole thing ith tho Thad!
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I am rooting for Crean to land the Ohio State job. I think it would be good for Marquette. I always like to see our alumni do well.
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I am rooting for Crean to land the Ohio State job. I think it would be good for Marquette. I always like to see our alumni do well.
Crean is not an alum.
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Crean is not an alum.
He knows. He's just fishing for a response.
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https://twitter.com/benaxelrod/status/872195793725399040
If Donovan goes to OSU, does that make Florida - football and basketball - a "stepping stone"?
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Crean is two years older than Matta.
LOL
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Crean is two years older than Matta.
That's mindblowingly true. Wow.
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Agree - why fire a guy to hire a guy with a similar but less successful background?
Because he can walk into a room without obvious pain and stand up staraight when shaking a recruit's hand.
Fortunately, for tOSU, those aren't their only two choices.
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Agree - why fire a guy to hire a guy with a similar but less successful background?
Subtle.
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Subtle.
And factual.
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I mean, saying you're not as good as Thad Matta is not really a knock on 99% of Division 1 coaches. Matta has had a fantastic career with a level of success that most in the coaching world will never achieve.
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https://twitter.com/clubtrillion/status/872609631595573248
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My guess is it'll be Hoiberg, just based on how he's performed in Chicago. But it would be hilarious if OSU hired Buzz.
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Ohio State is meeting with Creighton's Greg McDermott tonight, source told ESPN. espn.com/espn/now?nowId…
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https://twitter.com/clubtrillion/status/872609631595573248
Love Mark Titus (Club Trillion). Funny guy. And if TC ever got the OSU gig he burn his letter sweater.
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Ohio State is meeting with Creighton's Greg McDermott tonight, source told ESPN. espn.com/espn/now?nowId…
Mickey D leaked that to get a pay bump from Creighton.
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I mean, saying you're not as good as Thad Matta is not really a knock on 99% of Division 1 coaches. Matta has had a fantastic career with a level of success that most in the coaching world will never achieve.
Matta was an outstanding coach whose career had peaked and slid some due to physical challenges.
TC was an often successful coach whose career had peaked and slid because he hit the Peter Principle wall.
No chance OSU cans "A" for "B".
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Jeff GoodmanVerified account @GoodmanESPN 14m14 minutes ago
Ohio State is meeting with Creighton's Greg McDermott tonight, source told ESPN. http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-0664273291933916969-4 …
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Jeff GoodmanVerified account @GoodmanESPN 14m14 minutes ago
Ohio State is meeting with Creighton's Greg McDermott tonight, source told ESPN. http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-0664273291933916969-4 …
Papa's salary is pretty low in the City of Millionaires...Wojo makes more
http://www.omaha.com/creighton/blog/greg-mcdermott-s-total-pay-low-compared-to-other-high/article_8b16364c-14a2-11e7-9a92-f7862d249478.html
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Didn't see the McDermott thing coming. Also:
https://sports.yahoo.com/report-bulls-coach-fred-hoiberg-010544895.html
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McDermott's style would not translate well to OSU, IMO. His style would get eaten alive by the likes of Michigan State, Indiana, Maryland, et. al. He would also take some time to recruit players that fit his style more, as Matta's leftover roster doesn't align well. That's assuming he changes his style though.
McDermott also really struggled at ISU, another P5 school. He didn't even have a winning record there, and is the only coach there not to make the tournament in the past seven coaches.
If OSU fires Matta to get McDermott, I think that looks bad for them, IMO.
I love McDermott at Creighton, BTW. I think he is a great fit there. OSU? Not so much.
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McDermott reportedly offered the job.
https://twitter.com/goodmanespn/status/872659706656858113
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If true, this is a real head scratcher.
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If true, this is a real head scratcher.
tOSU board:
So Jent or McDermott? Yikes. Where's crean when you need him
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Matta was an outstanding coach whose career had peaked and slid some due to physical challenges.
TC was an often successful coach whose career had peaked and slid because he hit the Peter Principle wall.
No chance OSU cans "A" for "B".
Did I ever say otherwise?
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Walking without a limp & wince is the only thing McD has on Thad.
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Crean to creighton
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Crean to creighton
It's Creighton, it's Creighton!
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Well, according to McDermott's Wikipedia page, not only has he turned down OSU, but OSU has now hired Wojo as it's new coach.
Which one of you geniuses is behind that?
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Matta was an outstanding coach whose career had peaked and slid some due to physical challenges.
TC was an often successful coach whose career had peaked and slid because he hit the Peter Principle wall.
No chance OSU cans "A" for "B".
Matta's botched surgery was in 2007. Matta still went to 2 sweet 16's, an elite eight and a final four since that time. He may have been dealing with physical pain that I can't imagine but there are other coaches who dealt with physical ailments too and do fine (e.g. cancer and Parkinson's).
Matta started striking out on the recruiting trail after losing too many guys early and his bosses unceremoniously dumped him and are using the physical issue as a cover for being dicks to an excellent coach and person.
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Ohio State's men's basketball Wikipedia page lists a new head coach.
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F*ckin's at it again, ai na?
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F*ckin's at it again, ai na?
I'm thinking Greg Gard is trying REALLY hard to not only land Joey, but get Sam to transfer to Madison, hey?
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Fixed.
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Fixed.
Hologram Woody has a great ring to it, though Wojo is still on the coaches listing in the body of the page.
Also, 1905-1908 they don't know who their coach was but know their record was 33-14?
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I personally think Mac would be an awful hire at OSU.
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Twitter tracker:
Coach McDermott
@cucoachmac
I'm blessed and honored to be the coach at Creighton.....and am looking forward to many more great years in Omaha! #rolljays
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Twitter tracker:
Coach McDermott
@cucoachmac
I'm blessed and honored to be the coach at Creighton.....and am looking forward to many more great years in Omaha! #rolljays
Seems good. But he wouldn't be the first coach to go back on a statement like that
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Seems good. But he wouldn't be the first coach to go back on a statement like that
He tweeted that at 11:10 a.m. today.
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He tweeted that at 11:10 a.m. today.
I'm aware. He still wouldn't be the first coach to go back on a statement like that made mid-job search.
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Ohio State's men's basketball Wikipedia page lists a new head coach.
Fixed.
Someone keeps going back and changing it to Wojo. MUFINY, trying to plant ideas in Gene Smith's head?
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Someone keeps going back and changing it to Wojo. MUFINY, trying to plant ideas in Gene Smith's head?
It's now Michael Vick
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Someone keeps going back and changing it to Wojo. MUFINY, trying to plant ideas in Gene Smith's head?
Rocky and Topper can easily figure out who it is just by checking the ip addresses.
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When is Gregory's extension announced?
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Twitter tracker:
Coach McDermott
@cucoachmac
I'm blessed and honored to be the coach at Creighton.....and am looking forward to many more great years in Omaha! #rolljays
Good. Screw tOSU.
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If Wojo went to tOSU would we install Stan as HC?
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If Wojo went to tOSU would we install Stan as HC?
This late you might have to. At least as an interim
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It's now Michael Vick
It's Bo Ryan now. Even better.
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If Wojo went to tOSU would we install Stan as HC?
Probably either him or Nelson. Decent chance the other would follow Wojo. Though the idea of Crean suddenly becoming a viable target for Marquette is kind of hilarious. Frankly, it would be worth it just to watch Scoop have an aneurysm.
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It's Bo Ryan now. Even better.
Is Robin Van Ert listed as an assistant? Or on their payroll as a "recruiting specialist?"
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Hoiberg to tOSU
Crean to the Bulls
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Hoiberg to tOSU
Crean to the Bulls
Wade hire, hey?
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Okay. This might be the best one yet.
On June 5, 2017, the school announced Matta would not return as head coach after 13 years at Ohio State and that 16 time WWE Heavyweight Champion John Cena would be replacing him.
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Twitter tracker:
Coach McDermott
@cucoachmac
I'm blessed and honored to be the coach at Creighton.....and am looking forward to many more great years in Omaha! #rolljays
Yup. Definitely leveraging tOSU's interest for a higher salary at Creighton. #bigeaststrong
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Seems pretty official.
OMAHA, Neb. – Greg McDermott has confirmed that he will remain head men's basketball coach at Creighton University, he announced on Thursday, June 8.
http://www.gocreighton.com/news/2017/6/8/-m-basketball-greg-mcdermott-to-remain-mens-basketball-coach.aspx
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Seems pretty official.
OMAHA, Neb. – Greg McDermott has confirmed that he will remain head men's basketball coach at Creighton University, he announced on Thursday, June 8.
http://www.gocreighton.com/news/2017/6/8/-m-basketball-greg-mcdermott-to-remain-mens-basketball-coach.aspx
It does. I don't think Groggy McD is going anywhere. Still wouldn't be the first time a coach has said "I'm not interested in job opening x"....a week before accepting job opening x
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It does. I don't think Groggy McD is going anywhere. Still wouldn't be the first time a coach has said "I'm not interested in job opening x"....a week before accepting job opening x
True.
The day Lou Holtz left Minnesota for ND, the headline on Sid Hartman's Star Tribune column was: "Holtz might leave Gophers for Notre Dame, but I don't think so." Hartman's source was unquestionably Holtz. It was that day that everybody knew Sid officially had lost all influence in the Twin Cities. The end of an error!
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Thad Matta is helping with the coaching search. What an odd situation.
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Bobby CarpenterVerified account @Bcarp3 15m 15 minutes ago
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Looking like it could be Chris Holtmann of Butler as the next OSU Men's Basketball coach. If all goes well could be done soon
Going from one big East coach to another?
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Bobby CarpenterVerified account @Bcarp3 15m 15 minutes ago
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Looking like it could be Chris Holtmann of Butler as the next OSU Men's Basketball coach. If all goes well could be done soon
Going from one big East coach to another?
Don't do it, Chris!!!
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Don't do it, Chris!!!
Please do it. I like Holtman but don't like the Butler fan base. I loved Stevens too. I would like to dislike their whole program.
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Please do it. I like Holtman but don't like the Butler fan base. I loved Stevens too. I would like to dislike their whole program.
I want what is best for our league.
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Hoiberg to Butler
Crean to the Bulls
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Holtmann can be replaced. Butler has done it before and can do it again.
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Holtmann can be replaced. Butler has done it before and can do it again.
No doubt. Doesn't mean I want him to leave.
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Holtmann can be replaced. Butler has done it before and can do it again.
There is the law of averages. Butler has hit some home runs, but.... I would look at Lavell Jordan at UWM if Holtmann leaves. He is a Butler guy.
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No doubt. Doesn't mean I want him to leave.
Agree. I suspect Butler would recover, but the more BE schools are used as stepping stones, the more it feeds the misperception that it is a mid-major league. No coach stays forever anymore, but more turnaround isn't a good thing.
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Agree. I suspect Butler would recover, but the more BE schools are used as stepping stones, the more it feeds the misperception that it is a mid-major league. No coach stays forever anymore, but more turnaround isn't a good thing.
In general, i agree. But.......this also seems like an issue of being bias based on your perspective as a fan.
I just looked at the coaching tenure by conference (i'm lazy and only looked at major conferences alphabetically close to BE) and:
- Big 1012 = 5 of the 10 teams have coaches whose first season is 2015-16 or later. 5 of 10 2013-14 or later
- Big1410 = 5 of the 14 teams have coaches whose first season is 2015-16 or later. 7 of 14 are 2013-14 or later
- BEast = 3 of 10 have coaches whose first season is 2015-16 or later. 5 of 10 are 2013-14 or later.
Some have more openings due to firing/move to NBA/move to other NCAA team than others but if we look at it objectively we're on par with them.
wiki source:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_NCAA_Division_I_men%27s_basketball_coaches (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_NCAA_Division_I_men%27s_basketball_coaches)
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In general, i agree. But.......this also seems like an issue of being bias based on your perspective as a fan.
I just looked at the coaching tenure by conference (i'm lazy and only looked at major conferences alphabetically close to BE) and:
- Big 1012 = 5 of the 10 teams have coaches whose first season is 2015-16 or later. 5 of 10 2013-14 or later
- Big1410 = 5 of the 14 teams have coaches whose first season is 2015-16 or later. 7 of 14 are 2013-14 or later
- BEast = 3 of 10 have coaches whose first season is 2015-16 or later. 5 of 10 are 2013-14 or later.
Some have more openings due to firing/move to NBA/move to other NCAA team than others but if we look at it objectively we're on par with them.
wiki source:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_NCAA_Division_I_men%27s_basketball_coaches (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_NCAA_Division_I_men%27s_basketball_coaches)
You missed my point. I wasn't talking about "more" turnover relative to other conferences; I was saying it's preferable for the BE to have the smallest possible turnover as an absolute number. Why? Our schools are generally smaller and don't have football...so that we have always had to deal with the perception that we could be mid-major. We have a different bar to overcome in the public eye.
Thus - by saying I don't want "more" turnover, I was saying I'd rather see 1 new coach per season than 2, 2 rather than 3, or whatever.
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You missed my point. I wasn't talking about "more" turnover relative to other conferences; I was saying it's preferable for the BE to have the smallest possible turnover as an absolute number. Why? Our schools are generally smaller and don't have football...so that we have always had to deal with the perception that we could be mid-major. We have a different bar to overcome in the public eye.
Thus - by saying I don't want "more" turnover, I was saying I'd rather see 1 new coach per season than 2, 2 rather than 3, or whatever.
my counter "you missed my point" is that the "perception" that the BE could be mid-major is only held by those who read too much into ESPN's love for ACC and SEC, live where/listen to UW fans that tell them that, or have an inferiority complex regarding bigger schools with football.
Aside from the above situations, there is no objective or subjective reason to consider BE basketball anything but a power conference.
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A coach leaving Butler for one of the richest programs in college sports is not going to leave the perception of the BE a mid major - especially when a coach from the same conference turned them down and another was apparently not interested.
I mean, when Bill Self left Illinois for Kansas, did you feel the same way?
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I mean, when Bill Self left Illinois for Kansas, did you feel the same way?
Ohio State, in basketball terms, isn't in the same zip code as Kansas. I'm not sure they're even in the same state.
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Ohio State, in basketball terms, isn't in the same zip code as Kansas. I'm not sure they're even in the same state.
You're right.
Ohio State position in the Big Ten (program wise) is similar to Butler's position in the Big East. You move from Butler to OSU because of greater resources and the perception that the BIG is a better (?) and more prestigious (true) conference.
Kansas is miles above Illinois as a program - perceptions about conferences and other ancillary issues are beside the point.
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my counter "you missed my point" is that the "perception" that the BE could be mid-major is only held by those who read too much into ESPN's love for ACC and SEC, live where/listen to UW fans that tell them that, or have an inferiority complex regarding bigger schools with football.
Aside from the above situations, there is no objective or subjective reason to consider BE basketball anything but a power conference.
The underlined situation above was exactly the type of thing I was referring to. Like it or not, some people still watch ESPN and believe what they say.
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Ohio State, in basketball terms, isn't in the same zip code as Kansas. I'm not sure they're even in the same state.
Yes....but they can probably outspend Kansas if they so chose. An opening at Ohio State will always have big names linked to it because they simply have enough money to make anyone at least pick up the phone. The resources and fertile recruiting ground makes it at least a top 25 job in the country IMHO. If Holtman leaves Butler for OSU, I don't think that reflects badly on the league at all. I do think McDermott turning down OSU to stay at Creighton reflects well on the Big East.
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The underlined situation above was exactly the type of thing I was referring to. Like it or not, some people still watch ESPN and believe what they say.
That fair - there is an echo chamber around "i follow a mega University and therefore only listen to pro mega University news". Interestingly I see very little of it and i live in KC which is obviously KU/SEC land - that may skew my POV on the impact.
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http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/butler/2017/06/09/chris-holtmann-talks-become-ohio-states-new-coach/383221001/
Several national pundits are pretty sure Holtmann is the guy. Will be interesting to see what the fallout will be. Butler's top 2017 recruit, Kyle Young (#77 per 247) was reportedly down to Butler and Ohio State before picking Butler. Could easily see him following Holtmann if this ends up being true.
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I am past worrying about rooting for all BE teams to do as well as they possibly can and the BE to show well to prove itself. The BE has proven itself. It has a national title. It's put 70% of its teams into the NCAA Tourney. It's had dominating non-conference seasons and wins. It has a huge TV contract. The BE does not need to prove anything anymore. The only people that think it needs to prove anything are the fans of the teams in the conference. Anybody who says it's a midmajor conference is just saying it to get those people riled up.
The fact of the matter is football schools will be more attractive even to basketball coaches a majority of the time. Football is where the money is. Football drives all NCAA decisions. Basketball only schools are going to lose good coaches to football schools. That's just the nature of NCAA athletics and it isn't changing. But the BE has no control of that and has proven itself to be anything but a midmajor. I'm not one bit worried about a coach leaving a BE school for the B1G and what it does to the reputation of the conference. Holtman leaving Butler for OSU changes nobody's opinion of the BE except for the chicken little BE fans. For anyone else it's just common sense. More money, better resources, better job. Simple. Just like if Jay Wright moved on and Nova hired Clemson's basketball coach to take his place it doesn't mean the ACC sucks and can't keep its coaches and is a stepping stone, midmajor conference. It means Villanova's basketball coaching job is a better job than Clemson's. Simple as that.
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Alford is not leaving. His family loves Southern California.
maybe so, but if they made it attractive enough, they could make socal a lot closer to ohio state than it is. maybe plant some palm trees in his back yard ;D increased travel allowances, etc. plus he'd get away from LAVAR and his clown show and be back in the big 10 or whatever they call it now
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He gowne.
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8 year $3.1 million/per year deal. Butler is now on the clock.
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Ohio State, in basketball terms, isn't in the same zip code as Kansas. I'm not sure they're even in the same state.
First, that's not really the point. The point is moving into better situations don't reflect poorly on the conference. They are simply better situations.
Second, Ohio State is a better program than you are giving them credit for.
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First, that's not really the point. The point is moving into better situations don't reflect poorly on the conference. They are simply better situations.
Second, Ohio State is a better program than you are giving them credit for.
Kansas is a top-5 program. Duke, Kentucky, UNC, maybe UCLA are their only comparables. That's not a knock at tOSU, they just aren't in that league nor even close to it. They're a top-25 or so program. Along with programs like Maryland, Villanova, Marquette, and Florida. Good enough to be excellent when the circumstance is right, but there's a clear divide between them and the true blue bloods.
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And my money is on LaVall Jordan getting Butler. If so, it'll be very interesting to see what happens across town.
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And my money is on LaVall Jordan getting Butler. If so, it'll be very interesting to see what happens across town.
Todd Townsend for HC at UWM.
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And my money is on LaVall Jordan getting Butler. If so, it'll be very interesting to see what happens across town.
Nah. Travis Steele from Xavier. Top recruiter, Butler alum.
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And my money is on LaVall Jordan getting Butler. If so, it'll be very interesting to see what happens across town.
Will be interesting. Butler has shown a pattern of promoting from within. Matta, Lickliter, Stevens, and Holtmann were all promoted from Butler assistant to head coach. The only one who wasn't was Brandon Miller who was a bit of a train wreck (and a former assistant at Butler). Do they go with the former assistant Jordan, who finished last in the Horizon in his first season, but was win away from winning the conference tournament? Or do they go with one of their current assistants? Terry Johnson has spent 11 seasons at Butler. Mike Schrage has 10 years of experience as an assistant, plus 6 years as Director of Basketball Operations at blue blooded Duke. This late in the game I could see them going with the in house option.
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http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/19587102/ohio-state-buckeyes-hire-coach-chris-holtmann-away-butler-bulldogs
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I recall Jordan being one of the names bandied about when they went for Miller. I don't think taking over Jeter's trainwreck would be held against him.
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Will be interesting. Butler has shown a pattern of promoting from within. Matta, Lickliter, Stevens, and Holtmann were all promoted from Butler assistant to head coach. The only one who wasn't was Brandon Miller who was a bit of a train wreck (and a former assistant at Butler). Do they go with the former assistant Jordan, who finished last in the Horizon in his first season, but was win away from winning the conference tournament? Or do they go with one of their current assistants? Terry Johnson has spent 11 seasons at Butler. Mike Schrage has 10 years of experience as an assistant, plus 6 years as Director of Basketball Operations at blue blooded Duke. This late in the game I could see them going with the in house option.
Brandon Miller was promoted from within. He was hired as an assistant just a few months before Stevens left for the Celtics.
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Just for Fun. Is it allowed for Shane Heirman to leave DePaul for HC at Butler?
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How bout a swap....Thad Matta back to coach Butler???
Naturally it's rather unlikely, but not totally out of the question.
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https://twitter.com/AdamZagoria/status/873170868364554242
Sources: Butler's list for interviews will include Ryan Pedon, Micah Shrewsberry, Matt Graves and LaVall Jordan.
All current and former Butler assistants.
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How bout a swap....Thad Matta back to coach Butler???
Naturally it's rather unlikely, but not totally out of the question.
He was an assistant under current AD Barry Collier. That would be something.
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F butler i greatly dislike that little s#it program.
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Did anyone else notice Holtmann's written statement when he was talking about leaving Butler and stated "It's Butler". It sent a chill down my spine as it mirrored the famous Tom Crean "It's Indiana" statement.
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F butler i greatly dislike that little s#it program.
Really? I would have to say it is my second favorite team in the BEast. All the Butler fans I know are pretty cool people, and the program appears to be both strong and squeaky clean.
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Kansas is a top-5 program. Duke, Kentucky, UNC, maybe UCLA are their only comparables. That's not a knock at tOSU, they just aren't in that league nor even close to it. They're a top-25 or so program. Along with programs like Maryland, Villanova, Marquette, and Florida. Good enough to be excellent when the circumstance is right, but there's a clear divide between them and the true blue bloods.
OSU is unquestionably a top 15 program.
Marquette has 3 Final Four appearances and 1 National title with 4 conference titles. 2 of those 3 FFs and the only Title came 40 years ago. Florida has 5 FFs and 2 Titles with 5 conference titles, Nova is the same with 11 conference titles. Maryland has 2 FFs and 1 title with 6 conference titles. Ohio State has been to 11 Final Fours and won 1 Title to go along with 22 conference titles. Kansas has 14 FFs and 3 titles with a beserk amount of conference titles. Ohio State is pretty clearly much closer to Kansas than Marquette or Maryland are to Ohio State, and I would pretty easily argue Ohio State is a step above all of Nova, Marquette, Florida, and Maryland. Is OSU a true blue blood? Debatable. But I don't think it's even debatable that Marquette or Maryland are even close to on par with OSU, and I personally don't think FL or Nova are on that same level either.
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Really? I would have to say it is my second favorite team in the BEast. All the Butler fans I know are pretty cool people, and the program appears to be both strong and squeaky clean.
Yeah... Butler is like the least hateable program ever.
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That's why Dayton should be in the Big East. Everyone would agree, the Flyers, the most hated team in the Big East. ;D
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Butler is in Indy.
Indy is relatively close to Bloomington.
Luke went to Bloomington for a semester.
MSK really dislikes Luke.
Therefore, due to proximity to Luke's old school........MSK dislikes Butler.
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OSU is unquestionably a top 15 program.
Marquette has 3 Final Four appearances and 1 National title with 4 conference titles. 2 of those 3 FFs and the only Title came 40 years ago...
...Ohio State has been to 11 Final Fours and won 1 Title to go along with 22 conference titles.
Of which 8 Final Fours, the national title, and 13 conference titles were over 45 years ago. If this were the early 70s, you'd be right. But it's not. This isn't your grandfather's Ohio State, and they aren't close to being a blue blood anymore.
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I am past worrying about rooting for all BE teams to do as well as they possibly can and the BE to show well to prove itself. The BE has proven itself. It has a national title. It's put 70% of its teams into the NCAA Tourney. It's had dominating non-conference seasons and wins. It has a huge TV contract. The BE does not need to prove anything anymore. The only people that think it needs to prove anything are the fans of the teams in the conference. Anybody who says it's a midmajor conference is just saying it to get those people riled up.
The fact of the matter is football schools will be more attractive even to basketball coaches a majority of the time. Football is where the money is. Football drives all NCAA decisions. Basketball only schools are going to lose good coaches to football schools. That's just the nature of NCAA athletics and it isn't changing. But the BE has no control of that and has proven itself to be anything but a midmajor. I'm not one bit worried about a coach leaving a BE school for the B1G and what it does to the reputation of the conference. Holtman leaving Butler for OSU changes nobody's opinion of the BE except for the chicken little BE fans. For anyone else it's just common sense. More money, better resources, better job. Simple. Just like if Jay Wright moved on and Nova hired Clemson's basketball coach to take his place it doesn't mean the ACC sucks and can't keep its coaches and is a stepping stone, midmajor conference. It means Villanova's basketball coaching job is a better job than Clemson's. Simple as that.
I agree with all of this, wades. Nicely stated.
A couple of asides ...
McDermott's decision underscores the point that not every coach aspires to reach the highest levels (or at least the perceived highest levels). Once upon a time, the only way a coach could get recognition and riches was to go to one of the top programs. That no longer is the case. McDermott likely already has more money than he can ever spend, and he is well-respected nationally. On top of that, he gets to live in a low-cost area that he has grown to love, he is liked by a fervent fanbase, and he faces much less pressure than coaches at places like Ohio State do. (There is always pressure, but it is far less for McCormick at CU than it would have been for McCormick at OSU.) The fit is right for him at Creighton, he has been recruiting pretty darn well, and he can compete for conference titles and NCAA bids most years. In the end, it probably was a pretty easy decision for him.
I am happy for Holtmann, and if this is what he wants he deserves the shot. I think he'll do well there, and Butler probably will hire a very good replacement for him.
If Self leaving Illinois for Kansas isn't a sign that Illinois is inferior, is Williams leaving for UNC a sign that Kansas is inferior? I know ... extenuating circumstances for the former Tar Heel, but still - a coach DID leave one of the 5 or 10 programs that is on everybody's list of all-time bluebloods. It happens. Something similar will happen again one day.
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That's why Dayton should be in the Big East. Everyone would agree, the Flyers, the most hated team in the Big East. ;D
GTFO.
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Butler is in Indy.
Indy is relatively close to Bloomington.
Luke went to Bloomington for a semester.
MSK really dislikes Luke.
Therefore, due to proximity to Luke's old school........MSK dislikes Butler.
Nah its the fact that 5 or so yrs ago they were in the horizon and now their fanbase sees them on par or above the otherBE programs. This will knock them down a peg or two. I think they over achieved the last few years based on the coach who i think was really really good
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Yeah... Butler is like the least hateable program ever.
Meh. I personally had a run in with some nasty and vulgar Butler fans in Maui a few years back. Put a bad taste in my mouth for all things Butler. I enjoy watching them lose more than most of the Big East programs. To each their own!
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Nah its the fact that 5 or so yrs ago they were in the horizon and now their fanbase sees them on par or above the otherBE programs. This will knock them down a peg or two. I think they over achieved the last few years based on the coach who i think was really really good
Horizon or not since Butler came back in 97 the program makes 17postseasons, 14 NCAAs, 5 sweet 16s two of which they went to the finals. That's not overachieving during a 20yr stretch that's consistency.
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OSU is unquestionably a top 15 program.
Marquette has 3 Final Four appearances and 1 National title with 4 conference titles. 2 of those 3 FFs and the only Title came 40 years ago. Florida has 5 FFs and 2 Titles with 5 conference titles, Nova is the same with 11 conference titles. Maryland has 2 FFs and 1 title with 6 conference titles. Ohio State has been to 11 Final Fours and won 1 Title to go along with 22 conference titles. Kansas has 14 FFs and 3 titles with a beserk amount of conference titles. Ohio State is pretty clearly much closer to Kansas than Marquette or Maryland are to Ohio State, and I would pretty easily argue Ohio State is a step above all of Nova, Marquette, Florida, and Maryland. Is OSU a true blue blood? Debatable. But I don't think it's even debatable that Marquette or Maryland are even close to on par with OSU, and I personally don't think FL or Nova are on that same level either.
Not that I want to get anywhere near this argument, but I assume it is obvious that unless you are discussing conference championships from 1989 to today, there is no argument. You know, the whole MU not being in a conference that they could win. That and the fact that MU's longest stretch of continuous success was prior to being in a conference.
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Of which 8 Final Fours, the national title, and 13 conference titles were over 45 years ago. If this were the early 70s, you'd be right. But it's not. This isn't your grandfather's Ohio State, and they aren't close to being a blue blood anymore.
They have Final Four appearances in each of the past 3 decades. They have 7 conference titles since 2000. Again, they are much closer to Kansas than Marquette or Maryland are to them. They are certainly a top 15 program in the country.
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Not that I want to get anywhere near this argument, but I assume it is obvious that unless you are discussing conference championships from 1989 to today, there is no argument. You know, the whole MU not being in a conference that they could win. That and the fact that MU's longest stretch of continuous success was prior to being in a conference.
And yet you could pretend that Marquette would've won any conference they would've been in for the entire decade of the 1970s and we'd still fall 8 conference titles short of what Ohio State has.
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Nah its the fact that 5 or so yrs ago they were in the horizon and now their fanbase sees them on par or above the otherBE programs. This will knock them down a peg or two. I think they over achieved the last few years based on the coach who i think was really really good
Umm, they are with the exception of the conference check they get and the fact that they still have to say 'Thank you' when we pick them up with the private jet.
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This is just one ranking system, but back in 2012, ESPN ranked the top 50 programs in College Basketball.
They put Ohio State at #15: http://www.espn.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/63012/50-in-50-series-no-15-ohio-state
They put Marquette at #17
http://www.espn.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/62996/50-in-50-series-no-17-marquette
Since those rankings were published, Ohio State has had 3 more tournament appearances, an NIT appearance, and an Elite Eight run. Marquette has had 2 more tournament appearances and an Elite Eight run.
Obviously, this doesn't definitively prove anything. Its just one rating system with arbitrary rules. But Marquette and Ohio State are pretty close IMHO.
Kansas was #5 FWIW
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This is just one ranking system, but back in 2012, ESPN ranked the top 50 programs in College Basketball.
They put Ohio State at #15: http://www.espn.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/63012/50-in-50-series-no-15-ohio-state
They put Marquette at #17
http://www.espn.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/62996/50-in-50-series-no-17-marquette
Since those rankings were published, Ohio State has had 3 more tournament appearances, an NIT appearance, and an Elite Eight run. Marquette has had 2 more tournament appearances and an Elite Eight run.
Obviously, this doesn't definitively prove anything. Its just one rating system with arbitrary rules. But Marquette and Ohio State are pretty close IMHO.
Kansas was #5 FWIW
How did you get this to show up? I kept trying to get it and the links stopped working
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This is just one ranking system, but back in 2012, ESPN ranked the top 50 programs in College Basketball.
They put Ohio State at #15: http://www.espn.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/63012/50-in-50-series-no-15-ohio-state
They put Marquette at #17
http://www.espn.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/62996/50-in-50-series-no-17-marquette
Since those rankings were published, Ohio State has had 3 more tournament appearances, an NIT appearance, and an Elite Eight run. Marquette has had 2 more tournament appearances and an Elite Eight run.
Obviously, this doesn't definitively prove anything. Its just one rating system with arbitrary rules. But Marquette and Ohio State are pretty close IMHO.
Kansas was #5 FWIW
That feels about right. Ohio State is a fine program, similar to probably 20 or so programs that are clearly behind the blue bloods but aren't that far from each other. Top 15, 20, 25, I don't think the gap between any of those programs is that big. The types of jobs that can be great if the coach makes them that way, but not so great they will succeed no matter who's in the head seat.
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How did you get this to show up? I kept trying to get it and the links stopped working
Had trouble at first too. If you look at the top of the links I provided, there is a link that says : "A running list of the top 50 can be found here." Click on that, and it will take you to #1 North Carolina's page. But on the left hand side there will be a column with links to all of the top 50.
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in 2009 Sagarin did a ranking by decades:
http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2009/1004/cbe1.pdf
1940's - Ohio State 8th, Marquette outside top 40
1950's - Ohio State 25th, Marquette unranked
1960's - Ohio State 4th, Marquette unranked
1970's - Ohio State unranked, Marquette 3rd
1980's - Ohio State 22nd, Marquette unranked
1990's - Ohio State unranked, Marquette unranked
2000's - Ohio State 22nd, Marquette 32nd
overall 1940-2009: Ohio State 9th, Marquette 24th
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espn--Chris Holtmann new Ohio State Coach
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espn--Chris Holtmann new Ohio State Coach
Thanks Earl.
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espn--Chris Holtmann new Ohio State Coach
Wait a minute - what happened to Thad Matta?
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espn--Chris Holtmann new Ohio State Coach
But it was a fantastic 1,000th post!
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in 2009 Sagarin did a ranking by decades:
http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2009/1004/cbe1.pdf
1940's - Ohio State 8th, Marquette outside top 40
1950's - Ohio State 25th, Marquette unranked
1960's - Ohio State 4th, Marquette unranked
1970's - Ohio State unranked, Marquette 3rd
1980's - Ohio State 22nd, Marquette unranked
1990's - Ohio State unranked, Marquette unranked
2000's - Ohio State 22nd, Marquette 32nd
overall 1940-2009: Ohio State 9th, Marquette 24th
8 Years have passed since then. In that time, Ohio State had 6 NCAA trips, a FF, another E8, and two more S16s. Marquette has been to the NCAA 5 times, and has an E8 and two additional S16s. Again, we're looking at roughly equivalent decades so far.
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espn--Chris Holtmann new Ohio State Coach
Buzz to Virginia Tech
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in 2009 Sagarin did a ranking by decades:
http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2009/1004/cbe1.pdf
1940's - Ohio State 8th, Marquette outside top 40
1950's - Ohio State 25th, Marquette unranked
1960's - Ohio State 4th, Marquette unranked
1970's - Ohio State unranked, Marquette 3rd
1980's - Ohio State 22nd, Marquette unranked
1990's - Ohio State unranked, Marquette unranked
2000's - Ohio State 22nd, Marquette 32nd
overall 1940-2009: Ohio State 9th, Marquette 24th
They did have some rough years under Randy Ayers in the 1990's, but still during that decade they went to the Final Four in 1999 (Scoonie Penn), won the Big Ten in 1992 (lost to the Fab Five in the Elite 8, led by Jimmy Jackson and Laurence Funderburke) Sweet 16 in 1991.
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8 Years have passed since then. In that time, Ohio State had 6 NCAA trips, a FF, another E8, and two more S16s. Marquette has been to the NCAA 5 times, and has an E8 and two additional S16s. Again, we're looking at roughly equivalent decades so far.
I'd argue an additional Final Four would cancel out any equivalence between tOSU and MU in the past decade.
Beyond tournament success, tOSU has also been a staple in the upper half of national polls while MU has not. In fact, according to the AP (https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ncaa.com/amp/news/basketball-men/article/2017-03-29/ap-releases-top-100-college-basketball-programs-based-poll) tOSU has been ranked first in 37 polls, while MU has been ranked first in 3 polls.
Taking nothing away from the success and quality of the MU program, I'd argue tOSU is historically a superior program.
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Horizon or not since Butler came back in 97 the program makes 17postseasons, 14 NCAAs, 5 sweet 16s two of which they went to the finals. That's not overachieving during a 20yr stretch that's consistency.
Wow, that's Mr. Sand-Knit type consistency...
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So, Ohio State could have done this right after the season ended, and not done any better in getting their new coach. That's kinda impressive.
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So, Ohio State could have done this right after the season ended, and not done any better in getting their new coach. That's kinda impressive.
But got turned down by two Big East coaches prior to that. While I think Holtmann is a fantastic coach and hire, the money was just too much for him to pass up. OSU got a good coach, and one I wish Butler kept, but they didn't get their first couple handfuls of choices, realistic or not.
Hope BE coaches continue to hold strong.
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But got turned down by two Big East coaches prior to that. While I think Holtmann is a fantastic coach and hire, the money was just too much for him to pass up. OSU got a good coach, and one I wish Butler kept, but they didn't get their first couple handfuls of choices, realistic or not.
Hope BE coaches continue to hold strong.
That is typically the case, and should be the case as well. It doesn't hurt to call and ask someone, no matter how unrealistic it may seem.
Also I'm typically pretty skeptical of any leaks of offers being made. The McDermott one sounds like it was legit though.
I think ultimately they got a better coach than McDermott. I think Mack and Holtmann were the 2 best realistic options for OSU, and I'm not sure how reslistic Mack really was.
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Would like to see Crean get Butler job. It would add some spice to our conference rivalry with Butler.
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Did Holtmann pass on the IU job? Is he valuing tOSU higher than IU?
Who do you think has the better hire ... IU with Miller or tOSU with Holtmann?
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Did Holtmann pass on the IU job? Is he valuing tOSU higher than IU?
Who do you think has the better hire ... IU with Miller or tOSU with Holtmann?
I think OSU is a better job. They were willing to play big bucks and it is easier to recruit blue chip talent there.
Miller is a very good coach . His speciality was getting the most out of players by helping them improve their games . That is why he recruited Kostas to Dayton . Holtmann was very impressive though at Butler especially given the circumstances in which he got the job , so I would give the slight nod to Holtmann as the Bette hire but only by a little bit.
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Rank these new Big 10 hires from best to worst
Chris Holtmann to tOSU
Archie Miller to IU
Brad Underwood to Illini
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I think OSU is a better job. They were willing to play big bucks and it is easier to recruit blue chip talent there.
Miller is a very good coach . His speciality was getting the most out of players by helping them improve their games . That is why he recruited Kostas to Dayton . Holtmann was very impressive though at Butler especially given the circumstances in which he got the job , so I would give the slight nod to Holtmann as the Bette hire but only by a little bit.
The Chicago Tribune disagrees with you. In fact, they think tOSU is a middling Big Ten job.
What's the Big Ten's best basketball coaching job? And what's the worst?
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/ct-big-ten-basketball-coaches-ranked-photos-photogallery.html
1. Indiana
2. Maryland
3. Wisconsin
4. Michigan
5. Michigan State
6. Illinois
7. Ohio State
8. Purdue
9. Iowa
10. Northwestern
11. Minnesota
12. Rutgers
13. Nebraska
14. Penn State
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The Chicago Tribune disagrees with you. In fact, they think tOSU is a middling Big Ten job.
What's the Big Ten's best basketball coaching job? And what's the worst?
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/ct-big-ten-basketball-coaches-ranked-photos-photogallery.html
1. Indiana
2. Maryland
3. Wisconsin
4. Michigan
5. Michigan State
6. Illinois
7. Ohio State
8. Purdue
9. Iowa
10. Northwestern
11. Minnesota
12. Rutgers
13. Nebraska
14. Penn State
Last I looked The Chicago Tribune went through bankruptcy.
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Last Imloked The Chicago Tribune went through bankruptcy.
A little early in the weekend to be this strung out, isn't it?
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Cocaine is a hell of a drug.
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The Chicago Tribune disagrees with you. In fact, they think tOSU is a middling Big Ten job.
What's the Big Ten's best basketball coaching job? And what's the worst?
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/ct-big-ten-basketball-coaches-ranked-photos-photogallery.html
1. Indiana
2. Maryland
3. Wisconsin
4. Michigan
5. Michigan State
6. Illinois
7. Ohio State
8. Purdue
9. Iowa
10. Northwestern
11. Minnesota
12. Rutgers
13. Nebraska
14. Penn State
Illinois is not a better job. That's just homerism right there.
This list sucks. It's not what's the better job more than it is recent success. Michigan State? Will that be a good job post- Izzo? Wisconsin, no way a better job.
Maryland? Okay...because of UA.
Indiana
Maryland
Michigan
Ohio State
Wisconsin
Michigan State
Purdue
Illinois
The rest.
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Rank these new Big 10 hires from best to worst
Chris Holtmann to tOSU
Archie Miller to IU
Brad Underwood to Illini
Underwood
Holtmann
Archie
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Rank these new Big 10 hires from best to worst
Chris Holtmann to tOSU
Archie Miller to IU
Brad Underwood to Illini
Considering how each school is currently positioned, they all did as well as they could reasonably expect to do. A very nice off season for the Big Ten.
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Underwood
Hoffmann
Archie
Abbie?
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Rank these new Big 10 hires from best to worst
Chris Holtmann to tOSU
Archie Miller to IU
Brad Underwood to Illini
1 - Underwood. 2 - tie between Miller/Holtmann. Big 14 did well.
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1) Ohio State - Holtmann
2) Illinois - Underwood
3) Indiana - Miller
Holtmann has proven he can win in a major league consistently and can recruit. He's the clear home run. Underwood seems like a solid hire, but he's not been at the high major level long enough to prove he's Holtmann's equal. Miller I'm not impressed with. His entire career is that one Elite Eight run, then beating up on a mediocre league. Honestly, next year was going to be his measuring stick, to see if he could win without those 4 seniors. Instead, he capitalized before the bottom fell out. Smart move.
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Rank these new Big 10 hires from best to worst
Chris Holtmann to tOSU
Archie Miller to IU
Brad Underwood to Illini
I'll tell you in 5 years ;D
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I'll tell you in 5 years ;D
Pay the man, Shirley.
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Meh. I personally had a run in with some nasty and vulgar Butler fans in Maui a few years back. Put a bad taste in my mouth for all things Butler. I enjoy watching them lose more than most of the Big East programs. To each their own!
Agree with this. Butler fans not too cool in Maui.
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I'll tell you in 5 years ;D
I can name that tune in 4 years
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Is the measure who you think is the best coach right now, or who is the best hire given the school's status and expectations? Up for interpretation on either score, but for my money, best to worst when judging the school/AD's job making a hire is
1) Illinois - Amazing they were able to make Pickens look like a cheap ass
2) tOSU - if you don't hold the timing against them, they made out nicely for a June hire
3) I4 - meh
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Exactly. Illinois made the boldest, most out of the box move. I was surprised and it may work out the best for them.
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I think tOSU caught a break if McDermott turned them down. Holtmann's a better selection.
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I think tOSU caught a break if McDermott turned them down. Holtmann's a better selection.
Agreed. Still baffled how they offered McDermott before Holtmann.
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Agreed. Still baffled how they offered McDermott before Holtmann.
OSU insiders claim that there wasn't an offer. They are saying that McDermott leaked that there was an offer in order to leverage Creighton. No idea if its true.
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And the word is that Holtmann initially turned them down before OSU talked to McD.
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Holtmann turned down a 6 year deal.
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The Chicago Tribune disagrees with you. In fact, they think tOSU is a middling Big Ten job.
What's the Big Ten's best basketball coaching job? And what's the worst?
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/ct-big-ten-basketball-coaches-ranked-photos-photogallery.html
1. Indiana
2. Maryland
3. Wisconsin
4. Michigan
5. Michigan State
6. Illinois
7. Ohio State
8. Purdue
9. Iowa
10. Northwestern
11. Minnesota
12. Rutgers
13. Nebraska
14. Penn State
Silliness.
It's a list for list's sake because people like lists, including Scoop people.
As for which BT school made the better hire, my two favorite words in sports:
We'll
see
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The Chicago Tribune disagrees with you. In fact, they think tOSU is a middling Big Ten job.
What's the Big Ten's best basketball coaching job? And what's the worst?
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/ct-big-ten-basketball-coaches-ranked-photos-photogallery.html
1. Indiana
2. Maryland
3. Wisconsin
4. Michigan
5. Michigan State
6. Illinois
7. Ohio State
8. Purdue
9. Iowa
10. Northwestern
11. Minnesota
12. Rutgers
13. Nebraska
14. Penn State
Any list that does not have Rutgers at the bottom is automatically discredited. And it's funny to see how Northwestern has suddenly vaulted in front of programs with better facilities, lower academics and that have had more success after finally making the NCAA tourney for the first time.
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Rutgers should be at the bottom, yes. Then Penn State. Nebraska probably third-last, but they did just heavily invest in the new arena and facilities, so they are at least trying. I'd rank Minnesota ahead of Northwestern, just because of recruiting areas in the state, and the academic restrictions for Northwestern. Purdue and Ohio State should be ahead of Illinois at this point, IMO.
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The Chicago Tribune disagrees with you. In fact, they think tOSU is a middling Big Ten job.
What's the Big Ten's best basketball coaching job? And what's the worst?
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/ct-big-ten-basketball-coaches-ranked-photos-photogallery.html
1. Indiana
2. Maryland
3. Wisconsin
4. Michigan
5. Michigan State
6. Illinois
7. Ohio State
8. Purdue
9. Iowa
10. Northwestern
11. Minnesota
12. Rutgers
13. Nebraska
14. Penn State
I don't think thats too far off. I would move Purdue up a few spots and drop down Maryland and Michigan. Other than that, seems about right.
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Bucky is rated too high? Doubt that an outsider with a new staff could continue what Bo did? Btw, this upcoming season is truly Gard's "first" season as he has been living for 2 years off Bo's class of Hayes, Koenig, Brown and Showalter along with Happ. These guys had Final 4 experience and Happ practiced for a year as a redshirt against Kaminsky. We shall see.
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Rosiak on Twitta:
Butler University has officially offered its head-coaching job to UW-Milwaukee’s LaVall Jordan, a source has confirmed this afternoon
https://twitter.com/Todd_Rosiak/status/874366057389191169
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Todd Townsend next coach at UWM?
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Rosiak on Twitta:
Butler University has officially offered its head-coaching job to UW-Milwaukee’s LaVall Jordan, a source has confirmed this afternoon
https://twitter.com/Todd_Rosiak/status/874366057389191169
And he's told Braun today he's taking the Butler job.
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A friend just posted this on Facebook:
I look forward to seeing how Chris Holtmann does at Ohio State. After he sits out a year without pay, of course.
Wait. He doesn't have to do that? Weird.
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A friend just posted this on Facebook:
I look forward to seeing how Chris Holtmann does at Ohio State. After he sits out a year without pay, of course.
Wait. He doesn't have to do that? Weird.
Because he's a transfer.
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Done deal
http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/butler/2017/06/12/butler-targeting-lavall-jordan-next-basketball-coach/390953001/
This is a dream come true,” Jordan said in a statement released late Monday night. “Butler is a place that means so much to me and my family, and I am honored and humbled to lead this storied program."
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Butler gonna buttle
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Excellent coaching move by Butler. Also they make out financially.
http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/butler/2017/06/12/butler-targeting-lavall-jordan-next-basketball-coach/390953001/
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Excellent coaching move by Butler. Also they make out financially.
http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/butler/2017/06/12/butler-targeting-lavall-jordan-next-basketball-coach/390953001/
Yeah wonderful so if he's successful they can be looking for another new coach in 3 or 4 years.
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If OSU's new coach ends up being a failure, I can see the headline already:
Holtmann No Matta!
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If OSU's new coach ends up being a failure, I can see the headline already:
Holtmann No Matta!
Or more accurately if Butler continues their success without him.
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Or more accurately if Butler continues their success without him.
You're right, wades. That's more appropriate.
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Excellent coaching move by Butler. Also they make out financially.
http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/butler/2017/06/12/butler-targeting-lavall-jordan-next-basketball-coach/390953001/
Why is this an excellent coaching move? I'm just curious, I don't know anything about LaVall Jordan.
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Why is this an excellent coaching move? I'm just curious, I don't know anything about LaVall Jordan.
Because he's a great young man with a great, grounded family who is destined to be a Butler coaching great. Duh.
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Because he's a great young man with a great, grounded family who is destined to be a Butler coaching great. Duh.
Solid neck to
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Because he's a great young man with a great, grounded family who is destined to be a Butler coaching great. Duh.
Ohhhh..it's all clear now
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Because he's a great young man with a great, grounded family who is destined to be a Butler coaching great. Duh.
Neck? Check
Dunked in high school? Check
Meets all of the critical criteria to be a great coaching hire
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Neck? Check
Dunked in high school? Check
Meets all of the critical criteria to be a great coaching hire
Has to be over 5 years old, too. Luckily, he qualifies.
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http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/butler/2017/06/09/chris-holtmann-talks-become-ohio-states-new-coach/383221001/
Several national pundits are pretty sure Holtmann is the guy. Will be interesting to see what the fallout will be. Butler's top 2017 recruit, Kyle Young (#77 per 247) was reportedly down to Butler and Ohio State before picking Butler. Could easily see him following Holtmann if this ends up being true.
Well that didn't take long