Big East Too Early Preview

[Dr. Blackheart]

MU picked 7th...I can't say that I'd argue.

http://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2017/06/02/big-east-conference-reset-its-still-villanovas-league-but-for-how-long/

[jsglow]

Agreed.  While it may not be this year, Wojo's next mission is consistently getting MU in the top half of the league.  I know we finished 4th based on tie breakers, but we need to pass the Butler's and Hall's and Providence's of the world on an every season basis.

Not complaining where we're at or where we're slotted.  But with our annual investment, those should be the long term minimum standards.

[brewcity77]

I think 5-8 are pretty interchangeable. Butler, Creighton, and Marquette all had serious losses while St John's will likely be moving up with their young core. Newcomers, sophomore slumps, and how role players step up will determine a lot. I wouldn't argue with us being anywhere in that range.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

I think 5-8 are pretty interchangeable. Butler, Creighton, and Marquette all had serious losses while St John's will likely be moving up with their young core. Newcomers, sophomore slumps, and how role players step up will determine a lot. I wouldn't argue with us being anywhere in that range.

While Marquette definitely lost 3 solid players and role player, i just don't think we're going to miss anyone other than Luke all that much. IMO, JJJ, Duane and Katin will all be easily replaced. Luke's going to be tougher, and while he definitely had his shortcomings as a player, we don't really have anyone that can replace him. Here's to hoping some combo of Heldt, Froling and John is serviceable at the 5 (I think it will be).

[GGGG]

While Marquette definitely lost 3 solid players and role player, i just don't think we're going to miss anyone other than Luke all that much. IMO, JJJ, Duane and Katin will all be easily replaced. Luke's going to be tougher, and while he definitely had his shortcomings as a player, we don't really have anyone that can replace him. Here's to hoping some combo of Heldt, Froling and John is serviceable at the 5 (I think it will be).

I think saying that two seniors and a four year junior are going to be "easily replaced" is extreme optimism.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

I think saying that two seniors and a four year junior are going to be "easily replaced" is extreme optimism.

I'm generally optimistic, but it has moreso to do with them just not being that good. Duane is definitely replaceable and was going to be a 15 MPG guy anyway. JJJ was obviously very talented but he never developed into anything other than a scrappy on ball defender that consistently gambled and got burned and really only good for a few highlight reel dunks per game. I think Cain can give us 70% of what JJJ did and I expect to see Sam at the 3 most of the time once Froling is eligible. 

Katin is a tougher one to peg. I don't think we have anyone that can really replace his game persay, and he was a more talented player than his stat line would show last year, but he was a bit of a square peg in a round hole. I'm not sure he really needs to be directly replaced.

Rowsey and Markus will have the backcourt covered 75-80% of the time.

[Jay Bee]

FWIW, Katin played more than anyone else in BEast games. He sported a 123 ORtg (19% usage), good for 7th best in the conference.

[Loose Cannon]

  In these Posts, seems like no one has mention what kind of impact Greg Elliott will have next year.

[GGGG]

I'm generally optimistic, but it has moreso to do with them just not being that good. Duane is definitely replaceable and was going to be a 15 MPG guy anyway. JJJ was obviously very talented but he never developed into anything other than a scrappy on ball defender that consistently gambled and got burned and really only good for a few highlight reel dunks per game. I think Cain can give us 70% of what JJJ did and I expect to see Sam at the 3 most of the time once Froling is eligible. 

Katin is a tougher one to peg. I don't think we have anyone that can really replace his game persay, and he was a more talented player than his stat line would show last year, but he was a bit of a square peg in a round hole. I'm not sure he really needs to be directly replaced.

Rowsey and Markus will have the backcourt covered 75-80% of the time.

If Cain gives us "70% of what JJJ did," he isn't replaced. 

[MattyWarrior]

Luke will be a bigger loss than most think, I wish we had him for one more year. He played hard
and seemed to really grow as an all around player last year, with a great attitude

[brewcity77]

  In these Posts, seems like no one has mention what kind of impact Greg Elliott will have next year.

Personally, because I expect minimal contributions from him. Howard, Rowsey, and Cheatham likely combine for around 70-75 mpg. That doesn't leave a lot of time in the backcourt for a late blooming true freshman. He could certainly surprise, but I'm not counting on a ton from any of the freshmen, with Cain and John the two I'd most expect to carve out significant roles.

[Nukem2]

MU has posted the new roster now.  Elliott is list at 6'3" and 170 while Cain is listed at 6'7" and 185.  these guys need work in the weight room.

[MattyWarrior]

They both need 10-15 pounds of muscle for the BE, I see Cheatham has bulked up if these are
accurate weights

[willie warrior]

7th in the Beast is unacceptable, and Wojo better get going on success. What is his record at MU? About .500. And he is in his 4th year. When the BEast was reformed, there were people on this board that scoffed at "mid-majors" like Butler and Creighton be taken into the league. Those two programs have out performed the Duke Wonderboy since he became head coach. While I would rate him an A as a recruiter, he gets about a charitable C- as a bench coach. It is time for Wojo to step up and compete seriously for BEast titles, and not for middle of the pack mediocrity. Isn't he being paid big bucks along with excellent resources to be at the top of the conference, instead of a pack lagger?

[Jay Bee]

MU has posted the new roster now.  Elliott is list at 6'3" and 170 while Cain is listed at 6'7" and 185.  these guys need work in the weight room.

Heldt 6'10" 250
John 6'9" 240
Harry 6'11" 250
Ike 6'9" 230

We've gotten bigger (nh)

[GGGG]

7th in the Beast is unacceptable, and Wojo better get going on success. What is his record at MU? About .500. And he is in his 4th year. When the BEast was reformed, there were people on this board that scoffed at "mid-majors" like Butler and Creighton be taken into the league. Those two programs have out performed the Duke Wonderboy since he became head coach. While I would rate him an A as a recruiter, he gets about a charitable C- as a bench coach. It is time for Wojo to step up and compete seriously for BEast titles, and not for middle of the pack mediocrity. Isn't he being paid big bucks along with excellent resources to be at the top of the conference, instead of a pack lagger?

Wojo has improved every year.  Hopefully this year is better than last, but progress is not always in a straight line.

[Dr. Blackheart]

MU has posted the new roster now.  Elliott is list at 6'3" and 170 while Cain is listed at 6'7" and 185.  these guys need work in the weight room.

In comparison, Sandy was 180 as a Frosh.

[brewcity77]

Wojo has improved every year.  Hopefully this year is better than last, but progress is not always in a straight line.

I think that's just wee willie whining. We could finish second in the Big East, make the BET final,  and go to the Final Four and he'd complain that Wonderboy Wojo didn't win the league and both tournaments.

[jsglow]

I think that's just wee willie whining. We could finish second in the Big East, make the BET final,  and go to the Final Four and he'd complain that Wonderboy Wojo didn't win the league and both tournaments.

While true, if we remain a bottom half BEast team through the rest of the decade I'd consider that unacceptable.

[Dr. Blackheart]

I think that's just wee willie whining. We could finish second in the Big East, make the BET final,  and go to the Final Four and he'd complain that Wonderboy Wojo didn't win the league and both tournaments.

That said, this will be his first year with just "his guys". Wojo is a systems coach, and he chose (or inherited) to piecemeal it until now. So, to me, no matter the finish unlike Willie, it will be interesting to see how this team progresses this season.

I think that the starters will be stable. Rowsey, Howard and Sam will be very solid. I am hopeful for significant improvement from Haani and Heldt. The shooting will be fine.

The rest is a big question mark, frankly. Harry: We don't know what we are going to get. The freshman seem underrated, maybe because of their size or experience...but they all seem to have significant upside. Theo seems the most physically ready on defense but his offensive skills appear limited. Sacar? We've hardly known thee.

Let's talk defense. It has been very bad especially by Marquette and BE standards. Wojo has stated it will and must get better this season. The Big bodies will help, but the on ball defense has been matador at best. With the returning perimeter players and youngins, I am doubtful, but it will be a test of Wojo.

This is Year 4 on the Chicos Scale. I am excited to see Wojo put it all together. I expect we will need Year 5 before we go "all Willie".

[manny31]

I prefer the term "Full Willie"
I have to agree though, picked 7th is unacceptable. I kind of don't care where we finish but I expect to be picked in the top 3 every year. Outside the top 3, I say we go to Stan....DNT

[brewcity77]

While true, if we remain a bottom half BEast team through the rest of the decade I'd consider that unacceptable.

Sure, but we've notably improved every year under Wojo. Anyone that can't see this team is headed in the right direction and there's plenty of reason for optimism is simply blind or stupid. Anyone taking the "where's the progress" angle is either trolling or just being a whiny little bitch.

[jsglow]

Sure, but we've notably improved every year under Wojo. Anyone that can't see this team is headed in the right direction and there's plenty of reason for optimism is simply blind or stupid. Anyone taking the "where's the progress" angle is either trolling or just being a whiny little bitch.

Yep.

[Herman Cain]

MU picked 7th...I can't say that I'd argue.

http://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2017/06/02/big-east-conference-reset-its-still-villanovas-league-but-for-how-long/

There was some thought that went into this research report. However they are under rating Markus and Sam and have made no provision for the return to form of  Haanif.   The 3 through 10 spots in the Big East will be bitterly fought for all season long. I think we can be the leader of that group.

[Dr. Blackheart]

There was some thought that went into this research report. However they are under rating Markus and Sam and have made no provision for the return to form of  Haanif.   The 3 through 10 spots in the Big East will be bitterly fought for all season long. I think we can be the leader of that group.

In 2017, #3-6 in conference had the same records. #7 was Xavier who was Elite 8 even with devastating injuries. I think we would all be fine with that, even Willie.

But, as a fan, there is a lot of upside to be had, which means ups and downs. Last year, the question with the veteran team was could they gel? This year the question is around personal progression of individuals. Wojo recruited them to fit his system, so we know that question has been put to rest. There is only upside with this group on potential versus waiting for, let's say, a Jamil or JjJ to achieve elite levels (with their recruiting ratings) that never came.