Top 5 MU Players of All Time

[jsglow]

Awesome frontline. How did I forget Lucas in my top 5? Even making a top 10 would be difficult.
Where would you put guys like Rand, Earl Tatum, Bob Lackey, Sam Worthen, Lloyd Walton, Mandy Johnson, Aaron Hutchens, etc. etc.? Apologies to other greats I forgot about.

Answering your question is tough, but before one mentions guys like Johnson and Hutchins, we simply can't forget about Tony Smith.  He was an absolutely great player right up with our very best guards (or close) who has been a little lost to history because he played during the dark years.

Oh and somebody mentioned Gardner? (Edit: That was you rocket.  C'Mon man.)  That's crazy talk.  He's one of my favorites too but let's not put him in the same sentence with Jimmy Mac, for example.

[jsglow]

And Larry McNeill is a great story.  Am I remembering correctly that he was the guy who went up in the stands during the game to deal with a 'girlfriend issue'?  I remember being somewhat concerned when he graduated wondering who would fill his role. (That ended up working out just fine.)

[dgies9156]

Sorry for all you young guys but nobody on the 'modern' list approaches that.  What you guys need to appreciate was that for about an 8 year run, we were a Top 5 program nationally in the same breath with Indiana, North Carolina, Kentucky among a few others and just below UCLA, all in an era where college basketball wasn't watered down by early entry NBA.  Said another way, with the exception of Wade our 21st century ballplayers are 'nice'.  Our Al era ballplayers were superstars.  I can only imagine how bad Ellis, Lucas, or Chones would have kicked Henry's backside.  There just wasn't ESPN around to cover them 24/7.

We were what we want to become again. We were THAT good.

I started following MU basketball in 1966. I grew up in an MU household. In that vein, the Hillbilly, Crean, O'Neill and Wojo era ballplayers were good. No doubt. But with the possible exception of DWade, there has been no one who could put the team on his back and get us to the Final Four.

I suspect the reason is that while we have had good coaches who potentially could have become great coaches at Marquette, the best of the post-Al lot didn't stick around long enough to build the reputation Al did.

To develop the kind of reputation we had, which brought in what today we would call the "one-and-dones", you need coaching stability and a good track record. I suspect if Wojo is here 10 years from now, we'll be arguing about Markus Howard the way we are arguing about George Thompson today.

A last point: If I had to pick a just missed category for guys that were unbelievable but just not quite at the level of the five best ever, it would be the following:

Dean Meminger
Glenn Rivers
George Thompson
Earl Tatum
Jerome Whitehead/Jim MacIlvaine (Pick 'em, I couldn't decide which way to go on this one)

That still leaves off Larry McNeill, Lloyd Walton, Bob Lackey (my personal favorite), Tony Smith, Sam Worthen, David Boone, Jeral McNeal, A-u-t-o-m-a-t-i-c, Travis Diener, Bernard Toone, DJO and a host of other really great ballplayers.

[PBRme]

We were what we want to become again. We were THAT good.

I started following MU basketball in 1966. I grew up in an MU household. In that vein, the Hillbilly, Crean, O'Neill and Wojo era ballplayers were good. No doubt. But with the possible exception of DWade, there has been no one who could put the team on his back and get us to the Final Four.

I suspect the reason is that while we have had good coaches who potentially could have become great coaches at Marquette, the best of the post-Al lot didn't stick around long enough to build the reputation Al did.

To develop the kind of reputation we had, which brought in what today we would call the "one-and-dones", you need coaching stability and a good track record. I suspect if Wojo is here 10 years from now, we'll be arguing about Markus Howard the way we are arguing about George Thompson today.

A last point: If I had to pick a just missed category for guys that were unbelievable but just not quite at the level of the five best ever, it would be the following:

Dean Meminger
Glenn Rivers
George Thompson
Earl Tatum
Jerome Whitehead/Jim MacIlvaine (Pick 'em, I couldn't decide which way to go on this one)

That still leaves off Larry McNeill, Lloyd Walton, Bob Lackey (my personal favorite), Tony Smith, Sam Worthen, David Boone, Jeral McNeal, A-u-t-o-m-a-t-i-c, Travis Diener, Bernard Toone, DJO and a host of other really great ballplayers.

I'd add Kerry Trotter to your last list

[Goose]

Lenny and 4ever

Bo makes the cut big time. I like Doc's lineup a lot, especially if top 5 players and not going by position. IMO, Bo, Chones, Wade and Butch are locks. I go back and forth on number five and think 4-5 guys can fill that spot. Bo was an unreal college player and was great from day one.

[Goose]

DWADE is the greatest player to ever play at MU, IMO. He was the most talented, most exciting and dynamic player I ever saw at MU. He is the only post Al player that cracks by top ten and he comes in at #1!!!

[rocket surgeon]

DWade is not second team.  No recency bias on that one.  In terms of pure talent, he's right there at the tippy top of any list.

yes, wade was absolutely a stud for us, BUT i already stretched the "top 5 to 6 and i couldn't get myself to leave dean, bo and/or butch off the big list.   jimmy, maurice and george are locks imho.  can we change the title of the subject to top 7?

[Herman Cain]

One player that is completely left out of almost all Discussions is Micheal Wilson. He had the unfortunate luck of playing in the Hank years and all those players have not gotten their due, guys like Sam Worthen, Oliver Lee, Glenn Rivers etc . if Al was still around for those guys I have a feeling it would have been a different story.

[PJDunn]

Aaron Hutchins
D Wade
David Boone
Maurice Lucas
Geo Thompson

Boone and Hutchins would have been studs on every MU squad, including the Al years. 

[HoopsterBC]

This type of question of who was the best 5 players at MU is always debatable.  I do go back to the George "Brute Force" Thompson days, and he should be #1.
Played all 3 years at MU, averaged 18-20 points a game and was a gamer.  Most exciting player at MU other than D Wade.  Let George do it was his sloga

Butch Lee, player of the year,  NCAA champ, who else.  Started as a freshman.  Ask the American Olympic Team how good he was!

Dean the Dream, awesome, average 17.7 for a team that walked the ball up the court,  once Al got the lead, then it was mickey mouse hoops.  Today shot clock, Dean
would have average 20 or more, he could not really shoot the ball.  Dean and Butch played different games then today.

D Wade took MU back to the final 4, great junior year.

 Really the best player at MU for a short time,  Jim Chones, best bigman MU has had.  One bad referee cost them that one season,  29-1.  The next year Al
did what he had to do, but really could have waited 2 more months.  Chones did not play till the following year.

One more player to mention was Bo Ellis.  Played all 4 years, finals 2 out of 4 years.  Championship 1977, not flashy, wiry, but was a true winner.  Not has athletic
as the above, but really smart, heady player, played both sides of the court.  If I was going to build a team around one player it would be him.

Finally, the most athletic player ever at MU, Dominic James.  He was a smaller version of George.  One last mention, Sam Worthen, he was a great point.

[willie warrior]

Answering your question is tough, but before one mentions guys like Johnson and Hutchins, we simply can't forget about Tony Smith.  He was an absolutely great player right up with our very best guards (or close) who has been a little lost to history because he played during the dark years.

Oh and somebody mentioned Gardner? (Edit: That was you rocket.  C'Mon man.)  That's crazy talk.  He's one of my favorites too but let's not put him in the same sentence with Jimmy Mac, for example.

So many good ones, and the list goes on. Forgot Tony Miller, MU's all time assist leader-and then some! Another basketball magician was Dick Nixon, back in the Eddie Hickey years. I also forgot Michael Wilson, another great one. And yes, Kerry Trotter was great, just played on some mediocre teams. Same with Tony Smith. Cordell Henry, Brian Wardle, could keep adding to the memories. And somebody mentioned Terry Reason in this thread. He would definitely be top 5 on the all Hair team.

[willie warrior]

DWADE is the greatest player to ever play at MU, IMO. He was the most talented, most exciting and dynamic player I ever saw at MU. He is the only post Al player that cracks by top ten and he comes in at #1!!!

I would have wade in the top 5, absolutely. But greatest? Maybe, but you could make arguments for others, including: Thompson, Lucas, Ellis, Kojis, Lee, Meminger, and some others. Suffice it to say that we have had some great ones over the years

[Galway Eagle]

I would have wade in the top 5, absolutely. But greatest? Maybe, but you could make arguments for others, including: Thompson, Lucas, Ellis, Kojis, Lee, Meminger, and some others. Suffice it to say that we have had some great ones over the years

Are any of those guys on lists of the top 20 basketball players in history?

I don't pretend to know have been there back in the Al days but how many of his players benefitted from a genius coaching and other unbelievable talented players around them while players in the more recent era didn't have near the coach, or talent around them.

[Goose]

Willie
I could name a slew of guys that fall into 2-7 and a bunch from 8-15, but I believe Wade was a cut above. One man's opinion and I hold 2-15 in very high regard and a tough grader. He was a special, special talent.

[GooooMarquette]

Are any of those guys on lists of the top 20 basketball players in history?

I don't pretend to know have been there back in the Al days but how many of his players benefitted from a genius coaching and other unbelievable talented players around them while players in the more recent era didn't have near the coach, or talent around them.

Wade is on lists like that primarily because of his pro career, and if you look at the whole body of work, he is clearly #1.  But the OP specifically said "Don't base it on what they have done professionally strictly in college."

Given that request, Dean, Butch, Chones and maybe a couple of others are at least in the conversation.

[jsglow]

So many good ones, and the list goes on. Forgot Tony Miller, MU's all time assist leader-and then some! Another basketball magician was Dick Nixon, back in the Eddie Hickey years. I also forgot Michael Wilson, another great one. And yes, Kerry Trotter was great, just played on some mediocre teams. Same with Tony Smith. Cordell Henry, Brian Wardle, could keep adding to the memories. And somebody mentioned Terry Reason in this thread. He would definitely be top 5 on the all Hair team.

I meant TM.  Smith was outstanding too.

[Silkk the Shaka]

Wade is on lists like that primarily because of his pro career, and if you look at the whole body of work, he is clearly #1.  But the OP specifically said "Don't base it on what they have done professionally strictly in college."

Given that request, Dean, Butch, Chones and maybe a couple of others are at least in the conversation.

Triple double against the #1 overall seed to bring us back to the F4 for the 1st time in a quarter century and assembled a body of work that got him picked #5 overall as a sophomore early entrant in what is widely regarded as one of the most loaded top ends of a draft ever.

You don't even have to reference his NBA achievements.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Bringing Pudner's work back up from the past. Slightly different criteria, but another take at it with a more objective eye.
http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2008/01/marquettes-greatest-players-top-10.html

Ellis, Wade, Thompson, Lee, Memimger are the Top 5

[Tugg Speedman]

Jared McNeal #1 scorer in MU history
Dom James #3 all-time (George Thompson #2)

Interesting that they have gotten almost no mention, especially Dom James.

[GooooMarquette]

Triple double against the #1 overall seed to bring us back to the F4 for the 1st time in a quarter century and assembled a body of work that got him picked #5 overall as a sophomore early entrant in what is widely regarded as one of the most loaded top ends of a draft ever.

You don't even have to reference his NBA achievements.

I was responding to Boxer's post, which indirectly referenced NBA achievements by listing him among the all-time top 20.

I'm not saying Wade wasn't the best ever - he certainly is right in the mix with Meminger, Lee and Chones - but it isn't a clear or obvious choice.  And FWIW...Wade got us back to the F4 for the first time in a quarter century...when Lee got us there and led us to a win.  See?  Not so obvious. 

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Jared McNeal #1 scorer in MU history
Dom James #3 all-time (George Thompson #2)

Interesting that they have gotten almost no mention, especially Dom James.

Marquette All-Time Leading Scorers

1. Jerel McNeal- 1985 Points
2. Lazar Hayward- 1859 Points
3. George Thompson- 1773 Points
4. Dominic James- 1749 Points

Don't worry Heisy. I, too, had completely forgotten Lazar passed Brute Force until I looked it up the other day.

[Jockey]

Very well stated.  Really my only (minor) disagreement is with the mandatory top three.  I would start with Meminger, Lee and Wade...who also happen to have been MU's only consensus first team All-Americans.  My other two would be Chones and Ellis, but I can also see arguments for Luke, Thompson, Tatum, Kojis and Rand. 

Plenty of good players more recently, but none since Wade rise to that level....

Finally, some "Dean the Dream" love. He is as good or better of a candidate for #1 of all time at MU than most of those mentioned so far.

I think the four automatics are Meminger, Lee, Wade, and Thompson.

#5 could be Chones (a lock if he stayed 3 years, including a chance for #1 overall), Lucas, Bo (my preference), or Kojis. But you hit it on the head with the Top 3.

[Jockey]

Marquette All-Time Leading Scorers

1. Jerel McNeal- 1985 Points
2. Lazar Hayward- 1859 Points
3. George Thompson- 1773 Points
4. Dominic James- 1749 Points

Don't worry Heisy. I, too, had completely forgotten Lazar passed Brute Force until I looked it up the other day.

I hope you realize that McNeal, Hayward, and James played 4 years to Thompson's 3 years.

None of them could touch George as a scorer.

[Jockey]

Bringing Pudner's work back up from the past. Slightly different criteria, but another take at it with a more objective eye.
http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2008/01/marquettes-greatest-players-top-10.html

Ellis, Wade, Thompson, Lee, Memimger are the Top 5

Funny. I have argued at times with this guy over the numbers he has published the last few years.

And yet, here we have the identical top 5. Go figure.

[Tugg Speedman]

Marquette All-Time Leading Scorers

1. Jerel McNeal- 1985 Points
2. Lazar Hayward- 1859 Points
3. George Thompson- 1773 Points
4. Dominic James- 1749 Points

Don't worry Heisy. I, too, had completely forgotten Lazar passed Brute Force until I looked it up the other day.

Wow ... and this post might be the first mention of Hayward.